Did you look at the Surface Laptop?
Microsoft Surface Pro 4 announced: "better in nearly every way" (The Verge)
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Did you look at the Surface Laptop?
I did! Very cool device.
Dammit. Between the laptop, pro, and Scorpio MS has me going broke!
brotkasten
Member
Surface Pro Artist got the Wacom dual protocol pen and played around with it.
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/20...smart-stylus-puts-the-pressure-on-surface-pen
http://surfaceproartist.com/blog/20...smart-stylus-puts-the-pressure-on-surface-pen
brotkasten
Member
The new pen is $99.
artsi
Member
LukasTaves
Member
So likely no tilt and no higher than 1024 pressure levels? (Otherwise they would've mentioned it)
Does the Wacom pen have an eraser? It looks like it doesn't. Disappointing all around, tbh. I wonder how the customisation will be.
It looks like the 2017 Surface Pen supports tilt even on SP3/SP4. Only the Surface Laptop omits tilt.
It looks like the 2017 Surface Pen supports tilt even on SP3/SP4. Only the Surface Laptop omits tilt.
I have a pro 3. Kinda itching for this new pro but it's hard to justify. But it'd be nice to get the slightly bigger screen and higher rez since is skipped the 4. Performance wise the 3 really ain't so bad for what I use it for mostly, and not really sure what the new pro would immediately enable me to do
Shogmaster
Member
The Bamboo Ink Smart pen has a very fragile BT button on the back. Broke it when I dropped it on my hardwood floor. I'd wait for a running change on the button design. Other than that, using 1 gram IAF on my VAIO Z Canvas and Surface Studio at MS Store was sublime.
Take a look at the IAF difference between the current Surface pen on the New Surface Pro demo unit at MS Store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKzr_x6-d7M
As for tilt, I think we'll have to wait for the inevitable $100 version later.
I'd hate to sound like a broken record, but you can't tell the difference in amount of pressure levels after about 64/128. Our hand is not sensitive enough for such feat. We can only notice difference in IAF. and IAF is what everyone ALWAYS confuses as more or less pressure levels regarding pressure sensitive active pens.
Wacom likes to crank those pressure level quantity each generation to sell replacement tablets to existing customers. It's all nonsense.
Think about it this way: Imagine you have a stopwatch. It tells you time down to milliseconds. But the manufacture comes out with a new model that tells you down to nanoseconds. Would you see the benefit? No. You already have trouble physically pushing the button to stop the watch in consistent manner in tenths of seconds, let alone milli or nano seconds. You are not fast enough. And you can't perceive time in that level of granularity.
That's the same with active pen pressure levels in thousands. You can't possibly divide between 1 gram and 40 grams of pressure into thousands of levels by feel. You can't even do it in few hundreds. Or even high double digits Even if you had something huge instead of a tiny pen tip with your fingers to do it to, it would be impossible. Imagine you are pumping air into a tire using a bicycle pump with your arms. You have much more travel and pressure to play with than on an active pen tip. But would you be able to dial in between say dozen levels of pressure consistently with the pump? No. It's stupid nonsense.
Pressure level quantity increase is the biggest marketing scam in art tablets.
It's all about the IAF. It ALWAYS HAVE BEEN about the IAF.
Take a look at the IAF difference between the current Surface pen on the New Surface Pro demo unit at MS Store:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKzr_x6-d7M
As for tilt, I think we'll have to wait for the inevitable $100 version later.
I'd hate to sound like a broken record, but you can't tell the difference in amount of pressure levels after about 64/128. Our hand is not sensitive enough for such feat. We can only notice difference in IAF. and IAF is what everyone ALWAYS confuses as more or less pressure levels regarding pressure sensitive active pens.
Wacom likes to crank those pressure level quantity each generation to sell replacement tablets to existing customers. It's all nonsense.
Think about it this way: Imagine you have a stopwatch. It tells you time down to milliseconds. But the manufacture comes out with a new model that tells you down to nanoseconds. Would you see the benefit? No. You already have trouble physically pushing the button to stop the watch in consistent manner in tenths of seconds, let alone milli or nano seconds. You are not fast enough. And you can't perceive time in that level of granularity.
That's the same with active pen pressure levels in thousands. You can't possibly divide between 1 gram and 40 grams of pressure into thousands of levels by feel. You can't even do it in few hundreds. Or even high double digits Even if you had something huge instead of a tiny pen tip with your fingers to do it to, it would be impossible. Imagine you are pumping air into a tire using a bicycle pump with your arms. You have much more travel and pressure to play with than on an active pen tip. But would you be able to dial in between say dozen levels of pressure consistently with the pump? No. It's stupid nonsense.
Pressure level quantity increase is the biggest marketing scam in art tablets.
It's all about the IAF. It ALWAYS HAVE BEEN about the IAF.
LukasTaves
Member
I've been looking to trade mine because on win10 it gets really hot even when I'm doing nothing so it's constantly throttling.
But I'm waiting to see if the update the surface book too so I can decide which one.
artsi
Member
Yep, IAF is the reason I'm going for the Wacom pen (when I can find one in Europe). Tilt is nice but honestly I've never used it with my Intuos either personally.
We are both in the same boat lol. Almost weekly I consider the surface book as well. I actually do use my pro 3 as a tablet from time to time though, so not sure about that battery life on the book tablet. Technically I do use it as a laptop more though at work and on the go though so maybe the book would be better I don't know man
And yeah my pro 3 fan does kick in a lot just surfing the web so I'd like this improved cooling
Thanks for this comparison! I would like to pick up the Wacom pen when it comes to the UK, but it's a shame about the build quality of the top-button. Do you think the Bamboo Ink is 1g IAF? SurfaceProArtist seem to estimate 5g or so. (he also had the top button break on him)
Shogmaster
Member
He's being pig headed. I told him bunch of times already (once IN PERSON) about Wacom's load sensors.
Wacom made a huge announcement about their load sensors back in Intuos 4 launch. They were using 3 gram IAF sensors. With I4, they had improved the sensor to 1 gram IAF. So after I4, they were using 2 sensors; 1 gram IAF for Intuos and Cintiq lines, 3 gram sensors for Tablet PCs and Bamboo lines.
Then around in 2012, they decided that it was cheaper to consolidate the all of their pens to 1 gram IAF and shut down the production of the 3 gram IAF sensor. So if you buy a Wacom pen manufactured after 2012, they are all using 1 gram IAF sensor.
Haha, amazing. So I guess the best option now is probably the Surface Pro 2017 (for the lowest lag) and the Bamboo Ink pen (for the lowest IAF).
Shogmaster
Member
I'm still hoping Wacom's love for money makes them bring out another pen that gives you lowest IAF WITH tilt for you to use on your Surface devices. Say $100 MSRP?
brotkasten
Member
And I hope they don't make us wait that long again.
Looks like I'll stick with my current Surface Pen until this hopefully happens...
Shogmaster
Member
Hopefully Lenovo comes through and muscles Wacom into giving them feature parity with the New Surface Pro pen. Maybe that's why the Lenovo Active Pen 2 is still delayed. Then Wacom would do a dual protocol version for themselves soon after...
Yeah it's a long shot.
LukasTaves
Member
Most of my usage is in laptop mode too, though I have no trouble using the sp3 in my lap. I mainly use it as a tablet instead of my phone when gaming, and when I'm in bed, to read a book or watch something.
I think the 3 hours or so of battery life of the book clip would be enough, but I dunno about the lack of the kickstand, even as a tablet it's super useful.
LukasTaves
Member
So, my SP3 just bricked, and it wasn't the borked build that got pushed to WU by error.
I was on 16913 (fast ring) and when 16919 came it just failed to update. It wasn't the first time it happened (and I literally had only office and Visual Studio installed, so not sure what caused it wither), and the last time I could fix it by doing a restore (even the keep my files one worked), but now they would fail too.
I thought it could be something in that build and decided to rollback to the previous version (using the builtin windows tool)... Everything seems to be fine, the process completes and when it restarts the screen just flashes a few times and boot to bios. The shortcut to boot in recovery mode won't work, The Surface logo appears, but then it also flashes a few times and go to bios.
No problem, I recall Ms used to provide recovery images for the Surface line. I did it step by step, created a pen drive for recovery, changed the bios setting to boot from usb first. And now the logo apepars as it's reading the pen drive, but after a while it just stops reading and the screen flashes and the subsequent boot to logo repeats.
Edit: I guess it wasn't booting from pen drive due to secure boot. I disable and now it seems like it's going to be able to do something.
Edit2: FUUUUU even when trying to restore from the external media it's giving me an error after staying in the Recovering This PC screen for a while. Recovering from Cloud doesn't work either, neither any of the other options.
I guess now I'm really screwed?
I was on 16913 (fast ring) and when 16919 came it just failed to update. It wasn't the first time it happened (and I literally had only office and Visual Studio installed, so not sure what caused it wither), and the last time I could fix it by doing a restore (even the keep my files one worked), but now they would fail too.
I thought it could be something in that build and decided to rollback to the previous version (using the builtin windows tool)... Everything seems to be fine, the process completes and when it restarts the screen just flashes a few times and boot to bios. The shortcut to boot in recovery mode won't work, The Surface logo appears, but then it also flashes a few times and go to bios.
No problem, I recall Ms used to provide recovery images for the Surface line. I did it step by step, created a pen drive for recovery, changed the bios setting to boot from usb first. And now the logo apepars as it's reading the pen drive, but after a while it just stops reading and the screen flashes and the subsequent boot to logo repeats.
Edit: I guess it wasn't booting from pen drive due to secure boot. I disable and now it seems like it's going to be able to do something.
Edit2: FUUUUU even when trying to restore from the external media it's giving me an error after staying in the Recovering This PC screen for a while. Recovering from Cloud doesn't work either, neither any of the other options.
I guess now I'm really screwed?
Mrstriker09
Member
Im getting the red Surface Laptop. I just love the design of that thing. The tablet stuff isn't for me really. Its smart they have something for all taste.
Burgundy. My Wife is a red head and has been eyeing it herself.
I love the Cobalt Blue. Sexy has hell.
artsi
Member
If anyone wants to help me get that Wacom Bamboo Ink pen, I can pay $100 + postage via Paypal if someone can ship it to Finland via EMS, DHL or whatever service that takes less than a week.
Used or new, and I don't need the box, just pen and the tip package in an envelope to make postage cheap.
Looks like it won't be available in Europe until midsummer according to Wacom rep.
Can't find it from eBay, Amazon or any place that ships internationally.
EDIT: Nevermind, I found a local retailer that is supposed to get the pen in a week or two.
Used or new, and I don't need the box, just pen and the tip package in an envelope to make postage cheap.
Looks like it won't be available in Europe until midsummer according to Wacom rep.
Can't find it from eBay, Amazon or any place that ships internationally.
EDIT: Nevermind, I found a local retailer that is supposed to get the pen in a week or two.
Shogmaster
Member
The box ain't that big. Have them ship it in the box. You don't want that pen shipped out of the box. Trust me.
Also, I would help you out if I still had paypal...
AfterTheFall
Member
Just bought one of these with type cover on Prime Day.
I'm a blogger and was wondering if the entry level model is fine for the task?
I'm a blogger and was wondering if the entry level model is fine for the task?
AfterTheFall
Member
When mine arrives I'm thinking of using Edge as I hear it has better battery life and speed than Chrome. Shame my Safari passwords won't transfer over.
I can't recommend Opera highly enough on Surface Pro 4. It works amazingly, whereas Edge and Chrome were both sluggish and hogged all my RAM.
brotkasten
Member
Does it still suck with touch? Even Chrome has swiping gestures now.
AfterTheFall
Member
Thanks I will bear that in mind. I tried Opera Neon a while back on my MacBook and thought it was pretty good.
Ah, then, I guess? I don't know what swiping gestures are for, I don't use swipe gestures on my ipad, not sure what I'd use them for here.
brotkasten
Member
Touch and swipe the page left/right to go back/forward, just like Edge does it.
AfterTheFall
Member
Is the Creators Update a must have for Surface Pro?
About $25 for the basic version during the sale.
It's 50-60% off during the sale, and the sale happens every few months.
Thanks for letting me know. Gonna hold out till sale. Hopefully its soon.
The sale was a week ago.
artsi
Member
Still haven't got my hands on the Wacom Bamboo Ink stylus, it's a god damn unicorn in Europe and can't order it from anywhere in US either.
Even Wacom's own EU store doesn't sell it yet.
EDIT: Holy shit, it's not listed in the store under any category, but I actually found it by fiddling with the URL:
https://eu-store.wacom.com/Product/bamboo-ink
Even Wacom's own EU store doesn't sell it yet.
EDIT: Holy shit, it's not listed in the store under any category, but I actually found it by fiddling with the URL:
https://eu-store.wacom.com/Product/bamboo-ink
I lost the stylus for my SP4.
Am cry
How long did it take for you to lose it? Lost mine after around 10-11 months I think, had a good run.
Does anyone here have this? Is it any better than the stylus that comes with the SP 4?
I lost the stylus for my SP4.
Am cry
I actually have three SP4 pens.
Back when I got me SP4, the pen would always disconnect on me. MS support could never figure out why so they would just ship me a new pen.
It actually MAY have just been a software issue. I'll try the other two pens tonight and see if they work. If so we could possibly arrange me shipping you one if you pay for shipping.
I'm in Europe so would have to see if it was feasible, but whether or not it is that's very generous of you thanks.
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