Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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Kung Fu Jedi said:
After having LTE on my iPad 3, I'm not sure I could go back. It's so great to have not on ly an always on connection, but one with that speed! :)
Click to expand...

That's really the only downside for me personally, but tethering will do fine in most cases.
And VanMardigan is right, the winRT Surface will be one hell of a tablet, can't wait for it.
 
VanMardigan said:
The iPad can be a laptop replacement for a lot of people because all they do is surf, chat, play angry birds, read email, play with a few apps, and go on Facebook. In other words it doesn't need to have all the applications that a regular laptop has. This argument (which I feel is valid) is being made in this thread by the same people who will turn around and argue that WinRT is inadequate despite doing al those same basics as an iPad. The reason: it doesn't have all the iPad apps. It hurts my head sometimes when I read posts from some apple fanboys.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

krypt0nian said:
Which people?
Click to expand...

There is a good chunk of the population that doesn't do much more on their computers than what VanMardigan says above. In fact, most of the people I know. GAF is a very tech savvy place in general, which leads us to forget some of these things at times, but many of my friends and family do little more than email, light surfing, Facebook and so on with their computers. Most have things like digital cameras, but they don't edit photos or do much more than load them on their computer. The iPad is great for showing those off too. The point is, the majority of the population does very basic things with their technology.
 
VanMardigan said:
The iPad can be a laptop replacement for a lot of people because all they do is surf, chat, play angry birds, read email, play with a few apps, and go on Facebook. In other words it doesn't need to have all the applications that a regular laptop has. This argument (which I feel is valid) is being made in this thread by the same people who will turn around and argue that WinRT is inadequate despite doing all those same basics as an iPad. The reason: it doesn't have all the iPad apps. It hurts my head sometimes when I read posts from some apple fanboys.
Click to expand...


Couldn't all those things be donw on a smartphone already?

Or a $200 netbook? Or a low end Chromebook?



Why spend damn near $700 for an iPad if all you gonna do is kid basic stuff.
 
SUPREME1 said:
Couldn't all those things be donw on a smartphone already?

Or a $200 netbook? Or a low end Chromebook?



Why spend damn near $700 for an iPad if all you gonna do is kid basic stuff.
Click to expand...

What do you think most people who buy an iPad do with it that they couldn't do on a phone? Having larger real estate matters, form factors matter.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
Agree with this.



There is a good chunk of the population that doesn't do much more on their computers than what VanMardigan says above. In fact, most of the people I know. GAF is a very tech savvy place in general, which leads us to forget some of these things at times, but many of my friends and family do little more than email, light surfing, Facebook and so on with their computers. Most have things like digital cameras, but they don't edit photos or do much more than load them on their computer. The iPad is great for showing those off too. The point is, the majority of the population does very basic things with their technology.
Click to expand...

I was asking which people would be the Apple Fanboys that he's complaining about. Which are making both claims?

You agreed with it. Call out the posters that did this.



I was the one saying that tablets are already replacements for tons of people.
 
SUPREME1 said:
Couldn't all those things be donw on a smartphone already?

Or a $200 netbook? Or a low end Chromebook?



Why spend damn near $700 for an iPad if all you gonna do is kid basic stuff.
Click to expand...
I love how you artificially inflate the price to make your argument sound better. Entry-level iPad is $399, I guess that's "near $700"?

The reason people don't choose a $200 netbook or low-end Chromebook is because they're shit.
 
Hoo-doo said:
That's still really thin, impressive.
Add the keyboard cover and it's almost exactly as thin as a Macbook Air.
Click to expand...
and its gonna cost less also...

apple gets away with murder with selling that shitty netbook for what it really is. Like all other apple products, brand alone is driving it. Nothing at all is special about anything they offer....absolutely nothing. ever since the ipod classic 160(which is the greatest mp3 player of all time) apples product line just doesn't justify its prices, macs is the most overrated technological pieces of shit this side of the technology threshold, second is the android ecosystem...(way to clutter up markets google, you money hungry cocksuckers).

the only thing in their line that is interesting, is an Ipad, which sells for 500 on up. I have yet came across a tablet that can compete with ipad though. (I don't care what you say, the android market of tablets is a complete joke). So i finally cave in and was saving up for an ipad....

but this...this tablet changed everything for me...its a pc, but not...its a tablet, but not. No closed OS bullshit driven by apps. With a justifiable price, this will be my tablet/laptop.
 
SUPREME1 said:
Couldn't all those things be donw on a smartphone already?

Or a $200 netbook? Or a low end Chromebook?

Why spend damn near $700 for an iPad if all you gonna do is kid basic stuff.
Click to expand...

There are so much objective and subjective answerts to that. Do we really get to a "why is this more conveniant than X" argument again?

Gary Whitta said:
We're talking about the RT model though which will rely on Metro-specific apps.
Click to expand...

Which will not be a problem at all, since those apps will run on every WP8 pohne and PC. App-ecosystem lookout is fantastic imho.
 
i'm going to take a guess and say the app store for windows will have 100,000 apps at launch.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
Agree with this.



There is a good chunk of the population that doesn't do much more on their computers than what VanMardigan says above. In fact, most of the people I know. GAF is a very tech savvy place in general, which leads us to forget some of these things at times, but many of my friends and family do little more than email, light surfing, Facebook and so on with their computers. Most have things like digital cameras, but they don't edit photos or do much more than load them on their computer. The iPad is great for showing those off too. The point is, the majority of the population does very basic things with their technology.
Click to expand...

Then i'm living in a completely different world from yours it seems.

The app store is huge among every single iOS user I know. It seems like every week there's a new app that's "hot", and spreads like wildfire between everyone.
Even my parents, really not tech-savvy people at all, regularly browse for new Sudoku, Mahjongg and Freecell apps, and both use a whole selection of news, social and entertainment apps every day.
 
ari said:
and its gonna cost less also...

apple gets away with murder with selling that shitty netbook for what it really is. Like all other apple products, brand alone is driving it. Nothing at all is special about anything they offer....absolutely nothing. ever since the ipod classic 160(which is the greatest mp3 player of all time) apples product line just doesn't justify its prices, macs is the most overrated technological pieces of shit this side of the technology threshold, second is the android ecosystem...(way to clutter up markets google, you money hungry cocksuckers).

the only thing in their line that is interesting, is an Ipad, which sells for 500 on up. I have yet came across a tablet that can compete with ipad though. (I don't care what you say, the android market of tablets is a complete joke). So i finally cave in and was saving up for an ipad....

but this...this tablet changed everything for me...its a pc, but not...its a tablet, but not. No closed OS bullshit driven by apps. With a justifiable price, this will be my tablet/laptop.
Click to expand...

I realize this is a lot of hyperbole mixed with ellipses but the ultrabooks competing with the MacBook Air haven't really shown a huge gap in price between the two. Microsoft's statement about the Pro Surface costing in line with ultrabooks also makes me expect it to be relatively expensive (800-1200 maybe?)
 
ari said:
and its gonna cost less also...

apple gets away with murder with selling that shitty netbook for what it really is. Like all other apple products, brand alone is driving it. Nothing at all is special about anything they offer....absolutely nothing. ever since the ipod classic 160(which is the greatest mp3 player of all time) apples product line just doesn't justify its prices, macs is the most overrated technological pieces of shit this side of the technology threshold, second is the android ecosystem...(way to clutter up markets google, you money hungry cocksuckers).

the only thing in their line that is interesting, is an Ipad, which sells for 500 on up. I have yet came across a tablet that can compete with ipad though. (I don't care what you say, the android market of tablets is a complete joke). So i finally cave in and was saving up for an ipad....

but this...this tablet changed everything for me...its a pc, but not...its a tablet, but not. No closed OS bullshit driven by apps. With a justifiable price, this will be my tablet/laptop.
Click to expand...
you realize the "shitty mac netbook" is as powerful in terms of processing power as the tablet you're willing to drop $1k on?
 
brotkasten said:
Data sticks are ugly as hell. I'd rather drain the battery of my tablet and phone twice as fast by tethering via WiFi than using one of those things.
Click to expand...

injurai said:
Beauty is pain?
Click to expand...
Um1eL.png


6skKv.jpg
 
ari said:
and its gonna cost less also...

apple gets away with murder with selling that shitty netbook for what it really is. Like all other apple products, brand alone is driving it. Nothing at all is special about anything they offer....absolutely nothing. ever since the ipod classic 160(which is the greatest mp3 player of all time) apples product line just doesn't justify its prices, macs is the most overrated technological pieces of shit this side of the technology threshold, second is the android ecosystem...(way to clutter up markets google, you money hungry cocksuckers).

the only thing in their line that is interesting, is an Ipad, which sells for 500 on up. I have yet came across a tablet that can compete with ipad though. (I don't care what you say, the android market of tablets is a complete joke). So i finally cave in and was saving up for an ipad....

but this...this tablet changed everything for me...its a pc, but not...its a tablet, but not. No closed OS bullshit driven by apps. With a justifiable price, this will be my tablet/laptop.
Click to expand...

Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
 
-PXG- said:
If the damn thing is full blown PC, then apps are pretty moot, honestly.
Click to expand...

I don't think people understand this. The vast majority of mobile app hype was spawned from early smartphone hardware. Most apps are simply versions of websites/webapps designed to be run natively to give a better feel. Really with modern web and modern mobile hardware most of these are unnecessary. iOS mobile Safari holds a lot of them back because the performance sucks (but with iPad 3 hardware I really don't think it's that big a deal anyway), in the case of IE10 it's very modern but most of all very fast and hardware accelerates many tasks.

If all you are really doing is browsing Facebook, Amazon, Youtube, checking email, news, stocks, weather and playing Angry Birds and you have a good browser with hardware to support it, you really don't need native apps. There's the odd Infinity Blades of the system but those are so rare I wouldn't use them as a heavy counter argument.
 
fluffydelusions said:
How do you know it's going to be $1k? Entry level Win7 ultrabooks start at $700
Click to expand...

a comparable ultrabook to this is 1000-1200 dollars... and thats not counting the engineering work to get something this small or a digitizer. Its going to be at least $1000

entry level win7 ultrabooks for $700 have sandy bridge, are ugly as sin, have a mechanical hard drive and have a shitty resolution.
 
rozay said:
you realize the "shitty mac netbook" is as powerful in terms of processing power as the tablet you're willing to drop $1k on?
Click to expand...

um, i didn't state i would pay 1K on anything, if the surface is around the same price of an ipad...i wouldn't have an excuse to pick one up....1000 for the basic would be retarded.
 
ari said:
um, i didn't state i would pay 1K on anything, if the surface is around the same price of an ipad...i wouldn't have an excuse to pick one up....1000 for the basic would be retarded.
Click to expand...

ummm... if you are talking about the basic version i have some bad news about that closed OS driven by apps you're complaining about
 
SUPREME1 said:
I think you are right on the mark with those prices. They are realistic and they are likely to be spot on.
Click to expand...
The Samsung 11.6" slate they used to show the earliest builds of Windows 8 last year was state-of-the art at the time, features a Core i5 CPU (Sandy Bridge ofc), 64 GB of storage and a 1366x768 display at slightly under 13cm for $1099. With Microsoft's apparent hardware engineering marvels they can maybe improve enough to have a $999 tablet.

They said "competitive ultrabooks" for pricing, but you can get an 'ultrabook' for anywhere between $800 and $1400, so that tells us nothing. If this proves to be a €1000 device, this is my next though.

EDIT: Urgh, the Samsung Slate has a battery life of 3.5 hours, on battery of similar capacity. Microsoft should fix that with this one.
 
Somnid said:
I don't think people understand this. The vast majority of mobile app hype was spawned from early smartphone hardware. Most apps are simply versions of websites/webapps designed to be run natively to give a better feel. Really with modern web and modern mobile hardware most of these are unnecessary. iOS mobile Safari holds a lot of them back because the performance sucks (but with iPad 3 hardware I really don't think it's that big a deal anyway), in the case of IE10 it's very modern but most of all very fast and hardware accelerates many tasks.

If all you are really doing is browsing Facebook, Amazon, Youtube, checking email, news, stocks, weather and playing Angry Birds and you have a good browser with hardware to support it, you really don't need native apps. There's the odd Infinity Blades of the system but those are so rare I wouldn't use them as a heavy counter argument.
Click to expand...

Apps are nice because, if you're on a mobile data network, they only send a bare minimum of data back and forth. Just the content. None of the layout, none of the programming. Speeds things up, keeps your data usage down. Plus, the content is presented in a way specifically tailored for the platform. (Unless you're on some random Android device, in which case you may experience some pain.)

I'd honestly rather use the Facebook app than Facebook in a mobile browser, for example. Same goes for Twitter, or other things like Instagram.
 
I've held off on buying any tablet so far, but a combo tablet/laptop might be enough to get me interested.

The form factor and touch interface of a tablet is a big selling point for me, but app stores and restrictions just annoy me too much. I've basically been waiting for a tablet with a real open OS, and it sounds like this is going to be it, or at least the higher dollar version.
 
Gary Whitta said:
I love how you artificially inflate the price to make your argument sound better. Entry-level iPad is $399, I guess that's "near $700"?

The reason people don't choose a $200 netbook or low-end Chromebook is because they're shit.
Click to expand...


Well, the following prices are straight from Apple's website:

$499
$599
$629
$699
$729
$829

for the various models.


If you go with the average price of those listed above, you are at $664. So after you add tax (I went with 9.25% since I live in L.A., CA, though it might actually be higher) which would be $61.42... you end up at $725.42


So I guess I was actually a little low with my $700 figure!

Yikes, I'd hate to see how much a fully loaded iPad is out the door.
 
As has been mentioned, I can't really imagine Metro apps not hitting some sort of booming stride. The install base will be growing rather fast.
 
SUPREME1 said:
Well, the following prices are straight from Apple's website:

$499
$599
$629
$699
$729
$829

for the various models.


If you go with the average price of those listed above, you are at $664. So after you add tax (I went with 9.25% since I live in L.A., CA, though it might actually be higher) which would be $61.42... you end up at $725.42


So I guess I was actually a little low with my $700 figure! I'd hate to see how much a fully loaded iPad is out the door.
Click to expand...

The base model iPad 2 is 399$, what are you even talking about?
By your logic, there's no such thing as the 200$ netbook you mentioned, seeing as the average of all laptops is way, way more expensive. Who the fuck cares about the average?

You are getting desperate.
 
krypt0nian said:
I was asking which people would be the Apple Fanboys that he's complaining about. Which are making both claims?

You agreed with it. Call out the posters that did this.



I was the one saying that tablets are already replacements for tons of people.
Click to expand...

Ah...gotcha. Misunderstood. I thought you were asking who the people were that only use their computers for the things that he mentioned. I'm not sure who he was aiming his statement add, I was agreeing that the vast majority of people don't do much else with their laptops and technology in general.
 
SUPREME1 said:
Well, the following prices are straight from Apple's website:

$499
$599
$629
$699
$729
$829

for the various models.


If you go with the average price of those listed above, you are at $664. So after you add tax (I went with 9.25% since I live in L.A., CA, though it might actually be higher) which would be $61.42... you end up at $725.42


So I guess I was actually a little low with my $700 figure!

Yikes, I'd hate to see how much a fully loaded iPad is out the door.
Click to expand...

You're trying too hard.
 
Rur0ni said:
As has been mentioned, I can't really imagine Metro apps not hitting some sort of booming stride. The install base will be growing rather fast.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. The WinRT version of Surface will be the V6 Mustang to the GT. Meaning its going to be the higher selling and the one that carries the platform forward allowing for higher spec'd models. The WinRT install base will sore from launch .. that is .. if ...

Price. Price this right MS and you've got your killer device.
 
I'm looking at the RT version, I already have a pretty powerful laptop, so I don't see spending money on the pro version. Hope it doesn't go above $500.

When my current laptop does die, then the pro version will look attractive.

Does the RT version have a camera?
 
Hoo-doo said:
Then i'm living in a completely different world from yours it seems.

The app store is huge among every single iOS user I know. It seems like every week there's a new app that's "hot", and spreads like wildfire between everyone.
Even my parents, really not tech-savvy people at all, regularly browse for new Sudoku, Mahjongg and Freecell apps, and both use a whole selection of news, social and entertainment apps every day.
Click to expand...

I think we're getting our wires crossed here. I'm far from discounting the app store. I was saying that the iPad, and by extension the App Store, are more than enough for most users who don't really do anything demanding with their computers. I agree with you that the App Store is huge and a big reason for the success of the iPhone and iPad.
 
Magic Ovaries said:
I'm looking at the RT version, I already have a pretty powerful laptop, so I don't see spending money on the pro version. Hope it doesn't go above $500.

When my current laptop does die, then the pro version will look attractive.

Does the RT version have a camera?
Click to expand...

Yup, they demonstrated it during the event.
 
alphaNoid said:
Pretty much this. The WinRT version of Surface will be the V6 Mustang to the GT. Meaning its going to be the higher selling and the one that carries the platform forward allowing for higher spec'd models. The WinRT install base will sore from launch .. that is .. if ...

Price. Price this right MS and you've got your killer device.
Click to expand...

they need to beat ipad pricing, not match it. If people have a choice between the two at similar price points, they are going to go with the known quantity.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I think we're getting our wires crossed here. I'm far from discounting the app store. I was saying that the iPad, and by extension the App Store, are more than enough for most users who don't really do anything demanding with their computers. I agree with you that the App Store is huge and a big reason for the success of the iPhone and iPad.
Click to expand...

My apologies ! I thought I was arguing with that guy who said that the appstore was useless because the thing browsed the web and sent emails out of the box.
 
lunarworks said:
Apps are nice because, if you're on a mobile data network, they only send a bare minimum of data back and forth. Just the content. None of the layout, none of the programming. Speeds things up, keeps your data usage down. Plus, the content is presented in a way specifically tailored for the platform. (Unless you're on some random Android device, in which case you may experience some pain.)

I'd honestly rather use the Facebook app than Facebook in a mobile browser, for example. Same goes for Twitter, or other things like Instagram.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with web. AppCache let's you cache HTML, jquery templates let's you use that to template JSON data. Local Storage can cache that data. Media queries lets you decide how best to display that data on a device. It's all supported in iOS and Android and has for some time.

The real reason you like the apps is because more time, money and effort is spent on them because of the app hype train or maybe the browser isn't as optimized as it could be so things can be sluggish. It's not doing something web can't. Either way, having a browser like IE10 and the hardware they do it's definitely not a problem for Win 8, RT or not.
 
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