Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades

I hate everything MS is attempting to do this gen. But you guys are ok paying extra money every year just to play games. Just wait till so and so game requires the upgrade to play, split user base always a smart idea, fun times ahead. 5-6 years was fine, games late in a console cycle looked so much better than stuff early on, no need for small upgrades. Hopefully Sony stays the course and continues to be rewarded for it.

none of these things have been a problem on PC for ages now.

also, the likelihood that newer XB1 games could lock out older XB1s is ridiculous. Even nintendo, with their constant iterations and hardware improvements over a gen, only has maybe a handful of exclusive games that lock out other owners in the same gen.
 
I hate everything MS is attempting to do this gen. But you guys are ok paying extra money every year just to play games. Just wait till so and so game requires the upgrade to play, split user base always a smart idea, fun times ahead. 5-6 years was fine, games late in a console cycle looked so much better than stuff early on, no need for small upgrades. Hopefully Sony stays the course and continues to be rewarded for it.

You don't have to buy it every year. Do you buy other devices on a yearly basis?
 
Which is exactly what Xbox One is today. Consoles won't go away. Xbox OS (i.e. a gaming UI built on top of Windows 10 core) won't go away.

The Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One are traditional generational game consoles. Their primary purpose is to play games created with a single hardware specification for a generation of four years or more.

This is how eight generations of game consoles have been designed.

This new announcement describes an OS (windows 10 store) running on various hardware, including desktop PC hardware, that will play windows 10 apps.

It's a major, major change, and a complete departure from what we've seen from what Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have offered up until this point. So, yes, Microsoft consoles, as we know them today, are indeed going away.
 
This is what I've wanted. I want to be able to stream to my Xbox as a set top box, leveraging the processing power of my PC. This sounds like this would allow it. They need to open up the Windows Stre app though. Mods, Frame rate counters etc. I need those to maintain the same experience I get now.
 
Literally sounds like the worst of both worlds. Abandoning the few advantages a console platform has without capitalising on the PC's biggest strengths.
Absolutely this. The more I think about it, the more this becomes apparent. Majority of devs are not gonna fuck with this shit unless MS pays for development.
 
I hate everything MS is attempting to do this gen. But you guys are ok paying extra money every year just to play games. Just wait till so and so game requires the upgrade to play, split user base always a smart idea, fun times ahead. 5-6 years was fine, games late in a console cycle looked so much better than stuff early on, no need for small upgrades. Hopefully Sony stays the course and continues to be rewarded for it.

This is actually less likely to split the base, because games are more likely to be forward-compatible just like on PC or mobile.

Some people will upgrade, some people won't, but generally player bases will remain unchanged. Sure some games will eventually require an upgrade, but how is that any different that what happens between console generations?
 
What advantage of console would they lose?

Do people even think before they post?


No need to be rude especially when people have explained this to you multiple times itt. You think that a PC using the same hardware as PS4 will display the same graphics quality as the console? Have you ever wondered why that can't happen?

Because developers on consoles focus ONLY on one hardware version and optimizing it perfectly. It was the biggest advantage of consoles, you bought hardware that was guaranteed to be the focus of developers for years. That will not happen anymore with yearly updates.
 
Well, I am fine with it unless I can play all those games on my standard Windows 10 Gaming Laptop.

But I'd never use a proprietary OS on an expensive piece of hardware just to run a couple of XBOX-branded games.

And I would never pay to play online (on my PC, of course).

And I wouldn't use Windows store because I'd have to deal with the app-limitations and besides there are alternative stores like Steam which let you play your games as win32.exe.

So, yeah, cool, but it's the end of XBOX as a proprietary hardware.
 
It will certainly be a spectacle to watch them unveil this grand scheme to the general public at an E3 event.

You thought the backlash was bad about Xbox One? Wait for this to hit.

I can't be the only one who loves this. All we complain about is this gen being under powered. Spec wars and get pissed when games can barely ever hit 1080P 60fps.

Now we don't have to wait 5-10 years for a new box. I think it's about time someone forward thinks the console business.
 
I hate everything MS is attempting to do this gen. But you guys are ok paying extra money every year just to play games. Just wait till so and so game requires the upgrade to play, split user base always a smart idea, fun times ahead. 5-6 years was fine, games late in a console cycle looked so much better than stuff early on, no need for small upgrades. Hopefully Sony stays the course and continues to be rewarded for it.

No, they argue that they will always support the older generation. But then... if MS makes sure that happens, then people with the newer xboxes will whine that graphics are being hampered by the catering to people with the original xbox ones and that they could get so much better graphics if they stopped worry about supporting them.

Can't have it both ways. Either they continue supporting the old xbox and make sure every game works on it at the expense of it not being as good as it could be on new xbox's, or you'll have to upgrade to play the newer games.

I still don't understand why all the people who want this don't just make their own PC (Which pretty much already does this)? Makes me strongly suspect most people for this already prefer PCs anyways.
 
Might work for some people but no way would I buy an Xbox every 2 years (for example). I have a PC so I don't mind upgrading that often but I'm not doing it for my PC and Xbox. I think consoles really should just stick to new versions every ~5 years.

Being a console owner with a non gaming laptop ... This idea interests me a lot.

Being able to invest in your PC rig is a valid idea and fine. Dropping £400 on a mew mobile every 2-3 years is normalcy for many.

So why not a console? Why not have the option at least to have higher end hardware in your console? You must admit the prospect is interesting at least.


If backwards and forwards compatibility can be maintained I can't see an issue.
 
heh, I can already see MS making some deals with hardware vendors and introducing a hardware subscription service; as soon as there are new components or a new box is available, you`ll get it.
 
yeah, there must be a set baseline that will be relevant for atleast a couple of years.

I wonder how mass-market appeal will work. I can already see angry kids being pissed at their parents for getting them an Xbox-Gen-1_Super+ instead of Xbox-Gen-2-Normal+.

I fail to see why this is a concern in a world where there Apple sells 5 different models of ipad, each in different colors, memory sizes, and in wifi and LTE variants.

Even consoles are still sold in different memory sizes, bundles, etc.

The era of "Mom, I want a Nintendo for Christmas" has been long gone for some time.
 
It will certainly be a spectacle to watch them unveil this grand scheme to the general public at an E3 event.

You thought the backlash was bad about Xbox One? Wait for this to hit.

I am certainly not seeing the poison that was the Xbox One reveal. I was raising my pitchfork as high as anyone during that debacle, but they ultimately sold me on what I think is a great system.

As for this? It's pretty much what I have envisioned them doing with the Xbox, as that is where it has obviously been heading. I see nothing to hate yet. Only more options and knowing that I will indeed be getting to keep my entire library no matter how many times I upgrade.
 
I will not be rebuying.

You won't have to, have you read? thanks to universal apps you'll be able to play newer games on the old hardware too, but with lower details, like it's already on PC, people with a 960 will play games at medium details whilst who has a 980 will play with ultra ones, same thing happens on smartphones
 
I can't be the only one who loves this. All we complain about is this gen being under powered. Spec wars and get pissed when games can barely ever hit 1080P 60fps.

Now we don't have to wait 5-10 years for a new box. I think it's about time someone forward thinks the console business.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you/we speak for the general consumer on this.
 
I can't be the only one who loves this. All we complain about is this gen being under powered. Spec wars and get pissed when games can barely ever hit 1080P 60fps.

Now we don't have to wait 5-10 years for a new box. I think it's about time someone forward thinks the console business.
As someone perfectly fine with the power of the consoles this is just a way to push me to buy more hardware to keep up.

Again, if I wanted that I'd game on PC.
 
MS giving up Xbox Live subscription revenue would be a sight to behold. Don't count on it.

Honestly it's chump change for Microsoft. Not to say they won't but getting out of the proprietary console hardware race and relagating their games to the W10 store and HTPCs will probably save them more than whatever they'll earn from subscriptions.
 
Ugh, the more I read about this the more reasons I find not to buy any UWP locked down games. Their whole strategy sounds more like a grab for control of the PC gaming industry then helping it.
Next thing you know and they'll charge you for online play just like XBL, because why the fuck not?
 
I fail to see why this is a concern in a world where there Apple sells 5 different models of ipad, each in different colors, memory sizes, and in wifi and LTE variants.

Even consoles are still sold in different memory sizes, bundles, etc.

The era of "Mom, I want a Nintendo for Christmas" has been long gone for some time.

You are probably right, but I'm still sceptical. Apple differentiating there lineup is a relatively new phenomenon, and regarding iphones; a lot of phones of them are being pushed through subs.

The most vocal people about gaming (and tech in general) are usually people with a high rate of interest in technology; and they are a minority.
 
I can't be the only one who loves this. All we complain about is this gen being under powered. Spec wars and get pissed when games can barely ever hit 1080P 60fps.

Now we don't have to wait 5-10 years for a new box. I think it's about time someone forward thinks the console business.

If this truly goes the mobile development route, then developers will aim for the lowest common denominator to maximize marketshare. It wouldn't matter if you have a powerful console or not, it'll be gimped like how we complain about cross-gen games now.
 
So this means we'll see true cross play between PC gamers and Xbox gamers right?

With PC gamers being charged for Xbox Live Access? It's only fair right?

I'm sure that is their long game but they won't suddenly announce it until there are a ton of people bought in to the platform on the PC.

Kind of like how Sony did once they had enough people tied in to PSN.
 
I fail to see why this is a concern in a world where there Apple sells 5 different models of ipad, each in different colors, memory sizes, and in wifi and LTE variants.

Even consoles are still sold in different memory sizes, bundles, etc.

The era of "Mom, I want a Nintendo for Christmas" has been long gone for some time.

It's not an issue, I think it's more of a fear of microsoft trying to disrupt both the traditional pc market and console market.

To the consumer, as long as any console he or she buy plays current games and continues to for many years there's no issue whatsoever.
 
The Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One are traditional generational game consoles. Their primary purpose is to play games created with a single hardware specification for a generation of four years or more.
.

Factually untrue. Many xbox 360 games required a hard drive, even though many of the consoles sold that generation did not have them. Some games required Kinect, even though many of the consoles sold that generation did not have it.

If you bought an xbox 360 arcade at launch you had to buy several expensive upgrades if you wanted to be able to play all of the games released for the platform.
 
This sounds great to me.

As long as they can ensure game support for a piece of hardware for a minimum of 5 years, I would be up for upgrading to a new console every 2-3 years.

A modular designed console similar to Project Ara also would be really interesting, thought I think they would have to set a limited amount of modules to make it easier on devs.
 
I wonder if next generation will be like this one, where Sony is the only one that doesn't try some crazy shit that I don't want and that's like half of the reason I go with them. I'd rather buy a box that's good for 6 years than worry about upgrading in between to have the better version with all the features.
 
The phone example is bad because just about everyone uses their smarphone every day. Casual gaming fans would have a much harder time investing in a constantly evolving gaming platform given that they likely do not use their machines every day and are dependent on them so much as they are with their smartphones.
Tablets? People upgrade those constantly too and it's not necessarily a portable everyday use item.

Also who's to say Microsoft isn't trying to position the Xbox as an everyday device? Much like the Apple TV: A game console that is your centralized media consuming device for each time you think about using your TV/Monitor.
 
If this truly goes the mobile development route, then developers will aim for the lowest common denominator to maximize marketshare. It wouldn't matter if you have a powerful console or not, it'll be gimped like how we complain about cross-gen games now.

It would entirely depend on what Microsoft introduces as the pipeline for these revisions. They would need to make it simple for devs to have a scalable game where the client detects which revision you're playing on and is able to adjust up or down go what you have. They could also straight up offer settings that only become available in the options menu with different hardware revisions.
 
I'm not sure if I agree with the idea or not yet, but it sounds interesting. Plus It's smart of Microsoft to find some way to differentiate the Xbox One from the PS4 instead of continuing the next ~5 years as the relatively underpowered alternative.
 
Huh? If you're perfectly fine worth the power of the consoles it's not going to push you to do anything.
New games will come out and marketed and reviewed performance will be pegged to the latest hardware.

Existing apps will get patched with support for new hardware revision power/features degrading their performance on existing hardware.

This is what happens with mobile apps.

When you buy a console that's all you need for the duration.
 
The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

This might be true and the point that it may not be expected to sell well as well. The idea really isn't a PC. The PC allows you to completely customize your hardware, this is more like the corporation is the one doing the customizing and the consumer most likely can't do much hardware wise. Basically like yearly fixed consoles. That might sound fine, but the issue is that consoles are almost always are perceived as primary gaming devices and the games are far more technology sophisticated than mobile games. I can see the confusion among consumers that wonder should they buy the latest edition or wait for a more powerful console to get the most benefit and developers I don't see them putting their time on developing devices that may be outdated before the game is already released unless they know ahead of time of what the new devices is going to be 3 years ahead of time. The market might also change appeal, as in the latest device might not sell and so developers might not want to start developing games until the next strongest version comes out or they might decide not to wait a release the game in an earlier version, but it will be a weaker and not getting the power they may have wanted.

Also if the PS5 is basically like the older consoles in terms of one real version than I don't expect many gamers to buy the xbox versions but stick with the PS5 because you most likely don't have to invest in more consoles( that will take up space unless the xbox is really small) and you get one that lasts for 5+ years, and not feel the need buy the newer versions. So Microsoft might be aiming for a really hardcore market with this idea assuming they actually do it.
 
Microsoft has almost always been a software company that made tons of money by licensing their products.

Why not take a page out of Valve's book and license the Xbox OS for small form factor PCs instead of selling new hardware every year or so?

It has been shown that console manufacturers sell their boxes at a loss for the first year, maybe first 2, until the tooling catches up and can make them at a lower price. During that time they are selling as many games as they can to make up for that loss.
So if we take that into account, doesn't it mean that if they do release a new box, say every 2 years, they will be loosing money constantly on them?

This does not include all the trouble with supporting newer games on older machines, that will undoubtedly surface if they do market them as future proof, the way Spencer mentioned.

These are just my two cents and I arrived to these conclusions with my average knowledge of how console companies work. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Having said that, I do believe that bringing the Xbox and Windows ecosystems together by merging them is a brilliant idea.
 
Huh? If you're perfectly fine worth the power of the consoles it's not going to push you to do anything.

Exactly, because you will still be able to play the games. The new hardware will remain within certain limits and they are not going to leave everyone in the dust until they buy the newest system. They have obviously thought this kind of thing through and we would do best to wait and see before just assuming that they are going to try and fuck everyone over.
 
This is actually less likely to split the base, because games are more likely to be forward-compatible just like on PC or mobile.

Some people will upgrade, some people won't, but generally player bases will remain unchanged. Sure some games will eventually require an upgrade, but how is that any different that what happens between console generations?

There is a clear line of separation with console gens. What happens when just some people have to upgrade for one game, others need to upgrade further for another and now it's a mess just to know what runs where.
 
I wonder if next generation will be like this one, where Sony is the only one that doesn't try some crazy shit that I don't want and that's like half of the reason I go with them. I'd rather buy a box that's good for 6 years than worry about upgrading in between to have the better version with all the features.

That makes no sense, since if that would be the future than by having a no upgradable PS5 you will have the same games of the Xbox Model 1, whilst only who buy the upgraded Xbox Model 2 will have all the "features" which actually would be better graphics/frame rate
 
New games will come out and marketed and reviewed performance will be pegged to the new hardware.

Existing apps will get patched with support for new hardware revision power/features degrading their performance on existing hardware.

This is what happens with mobile apps.

Or as my friend just put it:

Spencer: "without invalidating the old games that run on the new platform"
IRL: "but invalidating the old platform to run the new games":
 
Do we expect developers to optimize games for all Xbox versions, or just the best one?

Of course, they'll make it run on everything, but so we really expect a polished experience for all versions?

I think the non-upgrades will be left behind, not in content, but in quality.
 
Think about what you're saying. If developers fail to use the hardware power or correctly scale their games for a console that lasts 5+ years, I'm certain they will work even harder to scale and optimize for hardware that gets replaced every 2 years....

Use your head.

Leave the passive aggression at home. You don't have to worry about console developers deliberately choosing to leave gamers who don't upgrade every two years with terrible games, passing up on their cash in an industry infamous for tight profit margins. Most developers are amazing at optimizing their games, and most modern engines are designed specifically with scalability in mind. Those are some of the key reasons we saw so many cross-gen games over the last few years.

Heck, we're even seeing AAA games like The Division launch with graphics options on consoles, so gamers can choose between high framerates or visual eye-candy. This isn't going to be an issue.
 
The Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One are traditional generational game consoles. Their primary purpose is to play games created with a single hardware specification for a generation of four years or more.

This is how eight generations of game consoles have been designed.

This new announcement describes an OS (windows 10 store) running on various hardware, including desktop PC hardware, that will play windows 10 apps.

It's a major, major change, and a complete departure from what we've seen from what Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have offered up until this point. So, yes, Microsoft consoles, as we know them today, are indeed going away.

So there's always a danger of getting wrapped up in a semantic argument over what is, and isn't a console.

To me a console is:
- Fixed hardware platform
- Designed to play games as its primary purpose
- Plug in and play, no visibility or need to care about drivers, configuration, etc.
- Designed in a "living room friendly" form factor
- UI that is centred around the gaming experience (and, more recently, media and entertainment apps)
- Can be relied on to play any game released in the next, say, 5 years, at an acceptable level of performance


If you take that definition then the console release lifecycle as we know it may well be going away, but Microsoft consoles aren't IMO.

If your definition of a console is different to mine, or you think MS is going to release some kind of "desktop windows 10" style machine, then of course you may say consoles are going away.
 
I think some people referring to the 32X are missing the point.

In a few years MS can sell the Xbox Two. Everything from the Xbox One can run on the Xbox Two. The Xbox Two will also be able to run Xbox Two games.

A few years after that, MS can sell the Xbox Three, which is 100% backwards compatible with One and Two, etc.

New games can be created for whatever hardware level the dev/publisher want.

I think that's more like what they're suggesting...
 
So when does this start affecting how games are designed if they are forever cross gen?

I can imagine the first games that come out on each iteration being hamstrung while developers guess how much of an audience per iteration they are targeting (just like what happened this gen) and maximising that audience by ensuring older iterations are supported. Not exactly an easy balancing act when we are expecting iterations to be far shorter in length...

ps3ud0 8)
 
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