Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades

Think about how people will feel come christmas where they buy the current version of xbox, then 4 months pass, they announce the newer refresh that does more?

The same way they feel when they buy a console and 4 months later manufacturer drops price by $100 and announce a new slim model with better stuffs?

But your whole analogy is off because they announce these things 6+ months in advance, and they would release the new model FOR Xmas, not shortly after.
 
Hey, you want that game in that series you love, but guess what? The developer decided to make it only two generations backwards-compatible instead of three, because they didn't want to put in the effort to optimize it for your model. So you're shit out of luck. How about that other game? Oh, damn, its performance is good on other models, but shitty on your model. Shoot. At least you always remember to obsessively check Digital Foundry before every purchase, a thing you need to do now that performance and developer effort can vary wildly between models!

It's in a game developers best interest to support as many consoles as possible. Rise of the Tomb Raider just came out for the Xbox 360 a couple of months ago!

Performance differences are more likely to be a problem—but again, it's in the developers best interest to give people as good an experience as they can given hardware limitations. Power users are going to want to check Digital Foundery, of course, but that's no different than how things are now.

What worries me is that since consoles are difficult if not impossible to upgrade, a console-user who IS really committed to having the best experience (note: this is a small minority of consumers) would essentially have to buy an entirely new console every couple years. But if Microsoft brings all their games over to Windows as well, it wouldn't be so bad for those users to just make the switch over to PC.
 
Since the surface guys are most likely going to be involved in the next xbox design, may be they follow a surface book approach?

two or three xbox's. Same SoC across the board.

The higher tiers have a discreet gpu and more ram?

I hope the hardware is nothing like the cost of Surface devices.

$400 box of decent quality.

They should stick to one old, one new over 6-8 years. drop support for the oldest when on the third. Slim the old, release the new at each side of the year, March and November.
 
Sony could as well. If they stick to the PC architecture, it's just too tempting not to improve the hardware if the price/profit remains stable and keep the pace with technology innovations and remain competitive among entertainment platforms.

Does anyone really think Sony is going to stick with PS4 VR for a console generation when it apparently takes beast PCs to run Oculus and HTC Vive?

I specifically mention Nintendo as they have hinted multiple times at this sort of business model including games working across multiple different hardware form factors
 
It's also worth pointing out that pushing graphics in games gives consumers a much much better reason to upgrade than the mostly gimmicky additions coming to phones in the past few years. It's built in to the core of what games are and how they play.

Precisely the carrot on the stick that keeps the PC enthusiast market alive.

The point of console gaming is that everyone has the same hardware and there is no advantage in any area. Everyone sees the same exact thing.

Take that away, and you wind up with an expensive hardware "arms race" that filters out the everyday mainstream gamer.

I fear this will only push more people into smartphone/tablet/ecosystem games.
 
Is this an exit strategy? Start herding Xbox owners to Win10 boxes from various OEMs? I can see where the similarity to Nintendo and the NX, but so many XB1 games are just being announced as appearing on Win10, there is less motivation to buy an XB1 and just get a PC.

I suppose at least we will have Sony and Nintendo sort of fighting it out in consoles, wonder if anyone would step in to take MS' place... Amazon??
 
People expecting the current model to offer any of these upgrades are smoking some goooooood shiiiit.

Current model? Or generation? The current model can't be upgraded, of course. But there's nothing stopping MS from delivering an Xbox One revision with an upgraded CPU and/or GPU that's backward and forward compatible with all current and future Xbox One titles.
 
The problem with people claiming that it will be just as simple as it is now, and you can just upgrade as often as you feel like, and only upgrade every 5-6 years if you want to, and you don't have to mess with settings if you don't want to, is that no, of course it fucking won't be as simple as it is now. Microsoft might make an effort to make it simple, and they will sure as hell try to convince you it's simple, but it won't be anywhere near as simple. Sure, theoretically your box will be forwards-compatible for five years and will just work for you. But in practice, it's gonna look a hell of a lot more like this:


Hey, you want that game in that series you love, but guess what? The developer decided to make it only two generations backwards-compatible instead of three, because they didn't want to put in the effort to optimize it for your model. So you're shit out of luck. How about that other game? Oh, damn, its performance is good on other models, but shitty on your model. Shoot. At least you always remember to obsessively check Digital Foundry before every purchase, a thing you need to do now that performance and developer effort can vary wildly between models!

Well, how about this third game? You'd better look up its performance too. Looks good! No wait, shit. It only gets a stable framerate on the special edition of your model. You know, the one with the overclocked GPU, the one that came out 6 months later with that FIFA game bundled in. Yeah, that one.

Maybe you should look into upgrading your machine's hardware? Some of these machines can be upgraded; you know that. But you're just an average-Joe consumer, and you don't even really know what phrases like "CPU" and "RAM" mean. But you do the annoying research to figure it all out. But alas, the specific hardware upgrade you wanted isn't available for your model. No, wait; they used to have it, but it was discontinued last month. Now it's really expensive on eBay. Shit!

Perhaps you could tweak the settings. But you hate messing with settings. You don't want to game on a PC. That's why you bought a console. Microsoft promised it would just work. You sigh.

You're feeling a little frustrated when your programmer friend happens to call you up. He's been making an indie game and it's been going well. But shit, he's getting really nervous about optimizing and testing his game on a half a dozen different Xbox models. He's really thinking of just releasing the game on Playstation. Shoot, you were really looking forward to trying his game.

Maybe you should consider just buying a newer model? But they're so expensive now that Microsoft releases so many of them, each needing its own round of R&D and stress testing and everything else that goes into designing and manufacturing hardware. You miss the days where developers could afford to take a loss on hardware, since they only had to sink those hardware design costs every 6 years or so.

You think about it. And then it hits you. Just buy a fucking Playstation. Because there's only one of those on the market, and it actually does just work™.

Well said.

Part of me is curios just to see "what if" but I feel that the cost would literally be the Xbox brand :/
 
People expecting the current model to offer any of these upgrades are smoking some goooooood shiiiit.

yeah...only ports on the thing are usb 3 and they don't have the bandwidth to do anything other than a harddrive

Either they release a new xbox one model with modular support
or they wait for next console
 
Is this an exit strategy? Start herding Xbox owners to Win10 boxes from various OEMs? I can see where the similarity to Nintendo and the NX, but so many XB1 games are just being announced as appearing on Win10, there is less motivation to buy an XB1 and just get a PC.

I suppose at least we will have Sony and Nintendo sort of fighting it out in consoles, wonder if anyone would step in to take MS' place... Amazon??

Amazon and Apple would have the exact same strategy for consoles. They are building software platforms not static hardware that's supposed to last 7+ years.

Nintendo has already hinted they aren't focusing on a single hardware platform either.
 
Consoles are not phones and tablets. Consumers invest a few hundred dollars for 1 box that plays games and last at least 5 years. That is and will always be the expectation.

I traded in my Titanfall Xbox for $200 at gamestop for the elite $499 unit with bonus controller and forza 6. I imagine many did the same. Given the pro controller was $150, forza 6 $60, and controller $60, it was damn near a "free" upgrade. I had also sold the kinect separately for $100.

If there are good trade in deals it makes sense to upgrade. A lot of people also aren't averse to selling what they have for %50+ of what they bought it for on amazon/ebay/cl/here/friends and then upgrading to the newest version.

I don't think the expectation is that you have the same box for 5+ years for a lot of people. A lot of people like to upgrade to the slim revision, for example. That's basically already a 2-3 year upgrade cycle for a good percentage of the market. That's not even considering the systems that break down after warranty expires, and then people buy the same exact console again, or a competing console. Nintendo has also done a great job with getting people to buy multiple 3ds models. I had the launch model, sold it, got the XL, sold it, got the n3ds XL. All for not much more investment than the original $250 asking price, considering the resale $ is pretty good.

More frequent console upgrades is actually a good thing for the budget segment of the market, as it increases the amount of used systems on the market that are in good shape.
 
Is this an exit strategy? Start herding Xbox owners to Win10 boxes from various OEMs? I can see where the similarity to Nintendo and the NX, but so many XB1 games are just being announced as appearing on Win10, there is less motivation to buy an XB1 and just get a PC.

I suppose at least we will have Sony and Nintendo sort of fighting it out in consoles, wonder if anyone would step in to take MS' place... Amazon??

Nah. People still love the plug and play and a OS geared gaming device.
 
It's also worth pointing out that pushing graphics in games gives consumers a much much better reason to upgrade than the mostly gimmicky additions coming to phones in the past few years. It's built in to the core of what games are and how they play.

Some of the most successful games on the market right now do not feature cutting edge graphics. Phone & tablets and the games which are most successful on those platforms, don't even feature cutting edge graphics in the mobile sector. This idea that showing shiny graphics in front of consumers and asking them for $400 is a logical fallacy.
 
The model is already immensely popular on PC and Mobile. Time for consoles to make the jump.

Think about why it works so well for PC and mobile, then consider if the reasons for its success with those markets would apply to consoles. The crux of PC's success is modularity and variety of vendors. It works for mobile because the devices come subsidized with data plans and their utility is essential to every day life today - this also applies to PCs. None of these apply to consoles. When you upgrade a PC, the benefits of upgrading its parts go beyond simple entertainment - you can better utilize many intensive software, multitask better for work purposes. Consoles are purely entertainment, and it's thus more difficult to justify paying for a new upgrade. I just think having tiers of consoles is a terrible idea to show to people in a storefront. They're confused enough trying to pick among their pre-built PC options.
 
First NX needs to fail, good friend! Then someone needs to convince Nintendo to release their games on PC and then the prophecy is nearly fullfiled!!!!
.

126535_fire-kids-chil9wsbr.jpg
 
This is a silly assumption, and fear-mongering. Why would they deliberately choose to lock a large portion of their install base out of new software? They don't make money on hardware sales, they make money on software. They want the hardware upgrades to be appealing to enough people to get them to invest in the Xbox brand over the competition, without shutting the door on their existing userbase that loves the idea of buying a console and sticking with it for 5+ years.

Halo 24, in your example, might only run at 1080p 30fps for the base console. OPTIONAL upgrades might push that to 1440p 60fps, or 4k 30fps.

78-190-547-02.jpg
 
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is too young to remember when Sega did it on the MegaDrive / Genesis.

It was a disaster.

/thread

But back then the pc userbase was not a thing
And the components were hideously overpriced as they were proprietary.

There was no such thing as scalability and game development was usually separate on different platforms

These days pc parts are pretty cheap....a good graphics card can last years before you have to dial down the settings and as shitty as people make it out to be windows 10 its not a bad os

I think this can really work providing that they offer similar flexibility that a desktop pc has.
 
Who is buying that universal Windows game? Certainly not PC gamers with all the issues uwa is having.

MS on the verge of blowing it a third time with PC gamers.

Xbox One specs are low enough to end up in Cable boxes & STB sometime in the next few years so having other companies like Samsung & so on making STB that can play these games/apps is more important to MS than having to make a console just to sell these same games/apps that they are selling on PC & other devices.

Some people wouldn't buy their parents a Xbox for Christmas but they will buy them Amazon fire sticks & STBs so breaking into that market would be bigger than Xbox One to MS as long as they can keep them in the Windows/Xbox Live Ecosystem.
 
1. Consumers, in the space of videogames, have NEVER continued to purchase an older, cheaper product once the new standard was introduced into the marketplace. Its never occurred.

Nonsense.

PS2 continued to sell Long into the Ps3's time and PS3 continues to sell now

Xbox 360 is still selling well
 
or it would just make me spend two times the consoles price to build one PC that will run all the xb models games on high for a decade.

Console $400, PC = $800, or how much it cost me to build my PC. My PC is an i5 w/ GTX 970. It will not run Xbox ONE #3 games on High at a smooth framerate, I promise you. Don't kid yourself, top end PC gamers spend A LOT more on hardware then that. Console will still be the cheapest place to get the latest graphics.
 
I wonder what a unified platform would do for games that are typically console-only? Like, lets say MS goes all in and Xbox becomes basically a mid-range windows PC with cross compatibility with the Windows Store on PC. What does that mean for a new game like a Destiny sequel?

Do they no longer release on Xbox? Does a Destiny sequel now become a PC game but only through the Windows Store? If the latter is true then could this be Microsoft's plan to compete in the PC space vs Steam, since this would be a clear path to exclusive games on the PC?
 
Makes a lot more sense considering Windows 10 locks into your specific hardware configuration and can't be moved to another setup without a new license purchase.

Microsoft doesn't want to sell games, so much as they want to sell Windows 10 at $100 to $150 a pop.

The best way to do that is to switch from a standardized hardware base to a constantly upgradable one.

So if you decide you want to see "more shiny stuff" in your game, not only do you need to buy new hardware, but you'll have to buy a new Windows 10 license too.

Think about it...

Buy a new Xbox for $400 every seven or eight years?

-OR-

Buy a new Windows license for $100 every two years? (or maybe even once a year if AMD, Nvidia, Intel, Samsung, etc... etc... all jump on board and decide to go full-on 'Arms Race')

...
...
$$$
$$$
 
1. Consumers, in the space of videogames, have NEVER continued to purchase an older, cheaper product once the new standard was introduced into the marketplace. Its never occurred. This only occurs when a product has a way more versatile amount of functionality than just videogames, which is the case of smartphones & tablets, and even then, newer product still lead the pack in sales.

2. If we're talking about a 5 year iterative cycle, then its just a console generation, like you said, and this iterative approach is wholly unnecessary. If you're saying a new hardware ceiling is being introduced every 2 or 3 years, then we have a huge problem.

3. As a dev, this is NOT what is currently going on in the current PC space. When we make a PC game, we have a GIANT marketplace & install base that we can sell to. We aren't assessing Steam's potential install base when making a game because we already know the potential install base is over 100+ million (obviously we don't budget according to that figure).

Before we even break this down even further, lets just start off by pointing out the obvious - PC support, EVEN when its a game focused exclusively for PC, such as X-Com 2, still yields wild & unpredictable proper functionality for the wide range of PC specs that currently exist in that ecosystem. When we consider games that have focused primarily on the console version, and then had a PC version also done, we've had significant bad examples this year alone. The fact is, attempting to support the wide variety of setups the PC platform has offered has caused huge, noticeable issues that have become increasingly prevalent. Consoles have offered some more security in this regard, but its not like console development has escaped these issues either. However, console releases tend to become way more 'guaranteed' stable upon release the longer a generation goes on, as long as the developer is leading console development first, and not on PC.

I've shipped several PC games already, and I can tell you just getting the support for various individual components is a development pipeline nightmare when it comes to optimization. Thats why so many individual PC setups slip through the cracks, and we get 'hilarious' youtube videos of issues come launch day calling the developers lazy as a result. Few QA teams can even handle doing all the proper technical testing for these setups. It isn't impossible - in fact, leading on console has helped PC releases, since it gives us a sort of old & weathered benchmark that we can work off of, while throwing in our higher-end render bells & whistles for PC users who can afford to run them.

So now, MS goes "we want to introduce a new closed box platform into the market that is a smaller increment stronger than a full-on console generational step". So, with just that alone, if the APU for the system is not the same as the prior console, we are looking at adding in a new coding development pipeline for that build of the game if its to run natively on the new machine. On top of that, that entire build will need its own branch of QA support. All while we're still building the last Xbox's version.

Not only would we have to hire more people across the board to support it, there is zero guarantee we are primed to make any more money; remember, if the early market is going to be all enthusiasts on these new machines, and there is zero indication in market history that says a casual market will catch on to this, my team is now basically dividing the potential sales we'd have on one ecosystem between two platforms. Except, the act of dividing it actually costs us more money & development time. And there is zero guarantee the new machine will ever have an install base large enough to give us a positive ROI.
Good to read someone who knows what he is writting about.
 
I wonder what a unified platform would do for games that are typically console-only? Like, lets say MS goes all in and Xbox becomes basically a mid-range windows PC with cross compatibility with the Windows Store on PC. What does that mean for a new game like a Destiny sequel?

Do they no longer release on Xbox? Does a Destiny sequel now become a PC game but only through the Windows Store? If the latter is true then that could this be Microsoft plan to compete in the PC space vs Steam, since this would be a clear path to exclusive games on the PC?

This may well be part of the reason that there are fixed limitations on what you can and can't do within an UWA, because to make it too open increases the ability to abuse the infrastructure or cause issues that they cannot supprt
 
The only thing I can think that can work but will be confusing with consumers is one Xbox system just like there is then another Xbox system that you can customize. Sell gpus and cpus separately to only work on the Xbox one. Just so the pc and that Xbox one can work together. That means the gpu companies and cpu companies will have to make separate devices that will only work for Xbox and pc. I think the market for Xbox doesn't make sense unless it was Sony doing this which would make more sense.
 
So basically for the future they are going to replace their own Xbox console for a Xbox-ready label for 3rd party PCs and they will keep XBLA as their PC games shop platform?
 
Nonsense.

PS2 continued to sell Long into the Ps3's time and PS3 continues to sell now

Xbox 360 is still selling well

In markets where the new consoles are priced too high? Absolutely. PS2 still sold well for another year or so due to an aggressive price cut (it hit $149 right after the PS3 launch, and $99 in 2009, a price no console has gone as low since), but part of that was due to how high the cost to upgrade was in that ecosystem, and many users moved over to the 360. But consoles also have not reached the lower price points the PS2 hit (360 & PS3 still aren't under $199).

And both hardware & software sales for the 360 & PS3 have hit negligible levels, and have been there for almost a year now.
 
In markets where the new consoles are priced too high? Absolutely. PS2 still sold well for another year or so due to an aggressive price cut (it hit $149 right after the PS3 launch, and $99 in 2009, a price no console has gone as low since), but part of that was due to how high the cost to upgrade was in that ecosystem, and many users moved over to the 360. But consoles also have not reached the lower price points the PS2 hit (360 & PS3 still aren't under $199).

And both hardware & software sales for the 360 & PS3 have hit negligible levels, and have been there for almost a year now.

moving-the-goalposts-300x2402.jpg
 
Is this an exit strategy? Start herding Xbox owners to Win10 boxes from various OEMs? I can see where the similarity to Nintendo and the NX, but so many XB1 games are just being announced as appearing on Win10, there is less motivation to buy an XB1 and just get a PC.

I suppose at least we will have Sony and Nintendo sort of fighting it out in consoles, wonder if anyone would step in to take MS' place... Amazon??

What exit strat? Xbox is here to stay. They contributed so much to the console business and still continue to do so. It's not going anywhere. the living room is too valuable to let go. We actually should embrace this compettion so Sony/Nintendo and try to 1up them.
I guess I kinda understand the fearbut its a win/win for ms either way, no?

For you, that's okay because its a win/win either way since you will buy the Exclusive Xbox game from MS anyway.

On that note....
Generally, most casual video game players have PCs for their Family/self for general use or work or music n shit. A work station if i may call it that. Not a personal one just sitting there, hooked up in their living room waiting for the next best game their rig is built to handle. So the overall picture will stay the same. We should prepare to see if we hear anything about this at e3.
 
Console $400, PC = $800, or how much it cost me to build my PC. My PC is an i5 w/ GTX 970. It will not run Xbox ONE #3 games on High at a smooth framerate, I promise you. Don't kid yourself, top end PC gamers spend A LOT more on hardware then that. Console will still be the cheapest place to get the latest graphics.

Something feels wrong here. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that my Intel Quad from 2007 still outperforms XboxOne's and PS4's Cpu. The gap between current PC tech and consoles is already so huge, that you can't bet on PS5 and Xbox2 outperforming a GTX 980 with the power-drain-limitations of consoles in 2018/2019
 
Why are ya'll so bent on the idea of it being "release new Xbox hardware every 1 - 2 years"? Phil's comments didn't imply that at all, the article did. That strategy would be bust, anyway... it would have all the negatives of the traditional console with none of the benefits.
 
Sony could as well. If they stick to the PC architecture, it's just too tempting not to improve the hardware if the price/profit remains stable and keep the pace with technology innovations and remain competitive among entertainment platforms.

Does anyone really think Sony is going to stick with PS4 to run VR for a console generation when it apparently takes beast PCs to run Oculus and HTC Vive?
why wouldn't they?
 
I know people want to jump on this as a terrible idea, but what would be so bad from having something like this:

On the console front, Xbox systems in a 3 tier approach:
  • Xbox high end (priced at, or above, typical introductory console prices)
  • Xbox middle end (priced somewhere below normal introductory console prices)
  • Xbox low end (priced at bargain levels - prices you normally see >5 years into a console's cycle)

Start by releasing just a single system up front. Introduce a "new" system (just updated specs) after ~3 years. ~3 years after that, release another "new" system (again, just updated specs).

At this point, you have 3 versions of the Xbox that can play games that are currently out. It adds slightly more work for devs, but you get the benefit of the console space not being left behind by PC games and it also lets devs branch out graphically more than they might if they're locked into just one spec for ~8 years. If the machines are built correctly, the dev work could be streamlined enough where building in compliance for all 3 tiers of the system would be much smaller than the PC world (where you have to make it run on basically anything).

If this is done iteratively over time, the oldest (low end) system will be ~6-9 years (I'd prefer closer to 9-10) old by the time it is "phased out". This would fall into line with normal standards of what we expect from console's support.

The advantage of this is that we can, iteratively, also move forward in quicker fashion in having better graphics.


On the PC end of things, do things as they are now. MS could try to push universal apps and put their first party games on the PC. But it'd still be an open environment where things like Steam are still very heavily used.
 
Top Bottom