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[serversurfer]

I see somebody who's going to benefit from the Reading Rainbow kickstarter!

Err, don't you have the power to make the OP and/or thread title a little more clear?

Is that frowned upon here? If so, is there a particular reason for that? It seems like I see an awful lot of threads where people spend endless pages debating what the news even is… =/

 

[D i Z]

I hope people don't misunderstand the quote into thinking Sony had DRM planned and switched it off in a week lol

Its about the script. They clearly tailored it to embarrass MS.

Or...they clearly tailored it so that they didn't walk into the same minefield that MS was heading into with wishy washy messaging. Not sure why this needs to be taken any further than that.

 

[TetraGenesis]

To be fair, if you read nothing but the OP's blurb, that's how it can be interpreted. Reading the actual article yields a different outcome.

I think you mean if you read nothing but the thread title.

And have biases that beg to be confirmed.

 

[Phreakuency]

This is what makes this site laughable at times.

There are a bunch of you who think the posts at this forum help dictate the industry, that there is more intelligent discussion and better gaming minds here than anywhere else.

And yet half the responses in this thread (and likely the OP itself) can't even comprehend such a basic quote and go on to make fools of yourselves.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I think you mean if you read nothing but the thread title.

And have biases that beg to be confirmed.

I was thinking the same thing. I only read what the OP posted and not the entire linked article, and got exactly what was meant without a moment's doubt.

 

[10k]

Wished Andrew would have re-written this year's E3 script as well.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Wished Andrew would have re-written this year's E3 script as well.

Eh. It was fine. Chalk it up to the overzealous director wearing out his welcome pushing his tv show past the time limit. EviLore even said that he saw the teleprompter and the guy was basically ad-libbing.

 

[Spineker]

I think you mean if you read nothing but the thread title.

And have biases that beg to be confirmed.

I own a PS4, PS3 and Vita.

Remind me again who I'm biased towards.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I own a PS4, PS3 and Vita.

Remind me again who I'm biased towards.

I'm not calling you a liar. I'm really not. But claiming something doesn't make it true.

I own a dragon.

See?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Again, I'm just struck by how poorly the message was communicated, not the message itself. I actually believe in a lot of what MS wants to do, but that PR execution.... woof.

Had they made it optional for all users there would have been little to no backlash. Give the family sharing option to all who opt in, give them enhanced cloud UI options or whatever, but make it completely optional and there's no problem.

I think most of what they were proposing certainly sounded interesting, but I also believe it was completely conceptual and there were no reliable plans for the infrastructure surrounding such a revolutionary system. Like their convoluted bullshit for trading used games, where I think the Gamestops and Games of the world were going to have a little unit which removed games from your account when you traded it in, or some such nonsense. In the aftermath of the Xbone reveal and E3 I don't think they were anticipating anything like such a strong push back, so they didn't have firm plans outlined or confident answers to the only questions that mattered at the time.

 

[kitch9]

It's not like the PS4 doesn't have DRM anyway.

Consoles have had drm since they were invented, what's your point?

 

[Tigress]

I thought it was pretty obvious they rewrote the script to address MS's blunders seeing as they pretty much made some direct potshots at MS's policies they had announced. I mean Sony did not go for subtlety at all.

People were also begging Sony to do so before the conference (I remember people going, "Wouldn't it be awesome if they came up on stage and said, 'No used DRM' and just dropped the mic?").

And many people still thought Sony would follow suit. People are saying it's obvious now and Sony would be stupid not to take what was given to them but many people thought that at the same suit Sony would have the same advantages for having the same policies and with MS doing it there was no pressure for them not to. And it was too risky to piss off publishers to not do it and have them all go to MS instead (I do believe the policies were MS trying to get publisher good will plus some incentive of their own as they also published games). I mean if Sony did it too, I'm willing to bet most gamers would have just followed suit honestly so it would not have been that risky of a move (sorry, I don't have faith in gamers seeing as all the time I see them complain and pay anyways). I actually argued (not on here as I didn't have an account here then) that it was risky not to follow suit (and get publishers ignoring your platform cause of such) but it would have a huge pay off if it worked out because they'd get the stronger market and Publishers could not just ignore them and they'd get a lot of gamer good will. Looks like Sony took the risky side and pretty much got the benefits I thought they would. I'm honestly glad MS's 180 didn't fully work for them mostly cause I think making a move like that should hurt and not be something they can attempt to do and know they can just 180 and no harm done. I think there should be harm done for even attempting it so as to encourage them not to try in the first place.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

So the whole villainy shared is villainy halved thing was true after all. I guess we should be thankful the backlash to MS was so swift and strong.

This? Still?

 

[Jinko]

Sony wasn't lauded for "doing nothing". It was lauded because people was actually believing the "Sony will do it too" toxic thing some media outlets had been repeating for weeks.

They let the whole thing get bigger and bigger, saying nothing and giving elusive answers when people asked them if they had a similar DRM-plan in mind for their system . When they finally denied it at E3 (giving the whole problem some extra exposure) people were ready for the worst posible outcome.

Microsoft dropped the ball. But Sony were really smart using the whole problem to its benefit. If they just went the next day and said "DRM? There is no way we'll do that!" the whole thing wouldn't have been as big.

I duno I think its a bit naive to think that Sony didn't change a fair bit of their intended conference, they had plenty of time to make adjustments.

It's one of those things we will never know, but their conference just seemed too perfect to be true, which sends up a red flag for me.

Either way they did what needed to be done and excelled at it.

 

[Neuromancer]

Err, don't you have the power to make the OP and/or thread title a little more clear?

Is that frowned upon here? If so, is there a particular reason for that? It seems like I see an awful lot of threads where people spend endless pages debating what the news even is… =/

The title was clear to me, the OP was clear to me, and when I followed the link and read the article that was clear too.

The problem is some people have "Sony too" so ingrained in their psyche, for whatever reason, that that's what they're always going to see.

 

[TheKastorian]

Still can't believe whose idea at Microsoft was to implement those shitty restrictions on XB1. Regardless of how this console war is going to end that was the greatest f*** up I've seen by a company (arguably, even worse than PS3's $599 debacle)

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

You'll have to explain a bit there, bud.

Unless you mean last year's presentation.

He probably meant this year's, and on the whole I agree.

But hey, preferences because...preferences.

. I think there should be harm done for even attempting it so as to encourage them not to try in the first place.

2:1 in PS4's favor, next-gen selling better on PS4, $399 stealth-price cut (Kinectless SKU, I don't care if it technically isn't one, the optics make it look like a price cut) 8 months into new gen, complete 180 on DRM policies....trust me, they're hurting a little bit from the fiasco.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Well Sonys message was pretty much "everything stays as it was on Ps3, except you pay for online now".

After they saw what Microsoft did and the backlash they got for their plans, they changed it to "we don't do what Microsoft does, except we also charge for online now."


At the end of the day we all praised Sony for doing what they did on all their previous consoles, but it was special because Microsoft fucked up so bad and somehow everyone expected Sony to follow the same route.

 

[LittleJohnny]

But he didn't say they changed their policies, only that MS handed them the chance to offer a sick burn on stage.

But why are we complete skeptics when MS says something, such as the family sharing plan, they can blatantly come out and say: "YES, we were going to be able to share it just as we said you could". GAF skepticism level 4 super sayan!

On the other hand, when Sony says something, people immediately take it at face value with zero skepticism, even if its fair to believe that Sony was considering it, then changed their minds after all the backlash MS received. GAF skepticism = Kuririn

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Err, don't you have the power to make the OP and/or thread title a little more clear?

Is that frowned upon here? If so, is there a particular reason for that? It seems like I see an awful lot of threads where people spend endless pages debating what the news even is… =/

Change what? It's pretty clear what it says.

 

[macewank]

Not sure I understand the folks implying that this is somehow evidence that Sony had originally planned to use restrictive DRM on the PS4.

I took it to mean simply that House decided that they needed to be more specific about their plans after reading conjecture stating that they would follow Microsoft's lead.

 

[serversurfer]

The title was clear to me, the OP was clear to me, and when I followed the link and read the article that was clear too.

The problem is some people have "Sony too" so ingrained in their psyche, for whatever reason, that that's what they're always going to see.

Well, I figured it out too, but clearly, there's still a lot of confusion here. If the OP included the bit about House stressing that the policies didn't change, then people could argue about whether or not he's a liar. Instead, we're debating whether or not he confirmed Sony Too™.

I'm honestly glad MS's 180 didn't fully work for them mostly cause I think making a move like that should hurt and not be something they can attempt to do and know they can just 180 and no harm done. I think there should be harm done for even attempting it so as to encourage them not to try in the first place.

Hear, hear. For anyone familiar with Microsoft's history, none of this stuff really came as any great surprise. I've known all along their "for the gamers" stuff was just lip service so they could extend their monopolies in to your living room without you noticing. That's why it really chaps my ass when people say, "They're not doing it anymore, so why can't we just forget about it and buy XBones?"

Because forgetting who MS really are is what got us here in the first place, that's why.

 

[Tigress]

2:1 in PS4's favor, next-gen selling better on PS4, $399 stealth-price cut (Kinectless SKU, I don't care if it technically isn't one, the optics make it look like a price cut) 8 months into new gen, complete 180 on DRM policies....trust me, they're hurting a little bit from the fiasco.

And trust me, I'm happy about that. At this point I think it's enough to give MS the point, actually listen to the gamers when they complain cause they won't just deal with it. I'm not so worried they aren't going to get the point at this point. I don't think xbox one has to fail even if they 180, but I do think it has to have hurt them enough for it to be obvious it was a bad move, and I think it did.

 

[bishoptl]

Err, don't you have the power to make the OP and/or thread title a little more clear?

Is that frowned upon here? If so, is there a particular reason for that? It seems like I see an awful lot of threads where people spend endless pages debating what the news even is… =/

I would never change a thread title

 

[serversurfer]

I would never change a thread title

Right on, and I can certainly understand that. I definitely don't think mods should be editing posts in any way without making it clear what changes were made and why.

Is this just your personal policy though? I mean, I've seen thread titles get changed and OPs get updated, though usually without the aforementioned notation. It just seems like we waste a lot of time debating shit that didn't even happen. I mean, I know the arguing will never end, but can't we at least argue about what really happened? lol

 

[Mononoke]

Wished Andrew would have re-written this year's E3 script as well.

Sony's conferences have always been pretty bad (in terms of overall structure). Even when they owned MS that year, the rest of the conference was kind of up and down. People just remember the reveal + the slam at MS.

I love Sony, but I've never thought they put on great E3 conferences. The sad thing is, Sony DOES show a lot of good stuff! I saw more things at the Sony conference this year that I wanted to play than I saw at MS (granted, most of them were third party, and not all exclusives). But the thing is, MS had a much better conference in terms of structure/flow.

So while I personally think more great games were shown at the Sony conference, most viewed the MS conference as being overall better (because in terms of the actual presentation and speakers, they were!). But again, I just didn't find this surprising at all. Because Sony has really yet to put on an E3 conference where it had a good flow. For me it's expected at this point. They probably just need to go the route of Nintendo and have it become a scripted digital event. Or, just get someone that is better at editing their shows down.

 

[herod]

Sony wasn't lauded for "doing nothing". It was lauded because people was actually believing the "Sony will do it too" toxic thing some media outlets had been repeating for weeks.

They let the whole thing get bigger and bigger, saying nothing and giving elusive answers when people asked them if they had a similar DRM-plan in mind for their system . When they finally denied it at E3 (giving the whole problem some extra exposure) people were ready for the worst posible outcome.

Microsoft dropped the ball. But Sony were really smart using the whole problem to its benefit. If they just went the next day and said "DRM? There is no way we'll do that!" the whole thing wouldn't have been as big.

It wasn't smart so much as fucking obvious.

 

[Neuromancer]

clearly, there's still a lot of confusion here

It's going to take more than a title change to fix that.

 

[serversurfer]

It's going to take more than a title change to fix that.

lol Touché!

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

And trust me, I'm happy about that. At this point I think it's enough to give MS the point, actually listen to the gamers when they complain cause they won't just deal with it. I'm not so worried they aren't going to get the point at this point. I don't think xbox one has to fail even if they 180, but I do think it has to have hurt them enough for it to be obvious it was a bad move, and I think it did.

The funny thing is when I see people saying "guys XBO has suffered enough. Ease off already!", when usually most of the criticism is valid. Well, they may personally feel one way, but the market feels another. The market will determine when they've suffered enough.

It just gets irritating hearing that b/c it's usually coupled with "sales parity" and "we need competition" posts, which are even worst.

 

[Tigress]

The funny thing is when I see people saying "guys XBO has suffered enough. Ease off already!", when usually most of the criticism is valid. Well, they may personally feel one way, but the market feels another. The market will determine when they've suffered enough.

It just gets irritating hearing that b/c it's usually coupled with "sales parity" and "we need competition" posts, which are even worst.

Oh, I'm not saying that, I think we should still say how bad their policies were if it is brought up. But I am saying that I think they have hurt enough I don't think we need to worry they didn't get the point. Unless they do something new bad. And if they continue to do bad stuff, I do think they should ultimately fail. You don't learn, you should fail. Because there should be consequences for doing stuff consumers don't like and it should cause you to fail if you continue to do stuff consumers don't like. There should be consequences to continually trying to introduce bad stuff and it should get worse the more you try it especially if you already got a big message once. Needs to be bigger next time.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Wasn't this previously known? They aren't really the gaming saints we thought they were. They were able to dodge the public black eye. And doesn't the pricing of ps now show that they're out of touch?

The pricing of games on PS Now reflect a decision from the publishers of those games?
Still in beta, those prices aren't final. So hopefully no one buys game A that you can get on Amazon for much cheaper, which is probably overpriced as it is.

 

[Melchiah]

It was more 30 minutes really if you combine the Powers segment and Shawn Layden's incessant waffling and overdramatic hand gestures, but otherwise I agree with you. It was a 7 out of 10 presser through and through. Poorly paced sure, but certainly not lacking for video game announcements and awesome footage, with a stone-cold megaton in Grim Fandango HD for good measure. I think some folks are way too eager to downplay the great parts and focus on that midway slump like it was the defining factor of the conference

Powers was about 5 minutes, Layden about 15. That's ~20 minutes out of 1h45min conference, where games were present for ~1h14min. It's absurd, that some claim those two minor parts overshadowed all the games shown.

 

[BotoxAgent]

The funny thing is when I see people saying "guys XBO has suffered enough. Ease off already!", when usually most of the criticism is valid. Well, they may personally feel one way, but the market feels another. The market will determine when they've suffered enough.

It just gets irritating hearing that b/c it's usually coupled with "sales parity" and "we need competition" posts, which are even worst.

their marketing last year was just absolutely loathsome. Even after the DRM debacle, they still had the audacity to continuing to feed consumer ignorance and confusion of the console's specs and performance. Fortunately, the games have shown that there is an appreciable performance gap between the PS4 and X1 and that MS couldn't really hide behind their bullshit for too long. For me, that stink is not going to fade from my memory for a long time.

Sony hasn't been just "lucky." They have been hitting all the right notes ever since the first Feb reveal by producing a better value product and communicating those strengths well.

 

[rokkerkory]

Fascinating case study of how a company can so quickly fall out of the graces with their consumers through poor PR, ideation and execution.

I am glad most of the old team have been axed and glad market defines what's acceptable and what's not. MS had better learn a lot from this.

And kudos to Sony to capitalize.

 

[BigDug13]

But why are we complete skeptics when MS says something, such as the family sharing plan, they can blatantly come out and say: "YES, we were going to be able to share it just as we said you could". GAF skepticism level 4 super sayan!

On the other hand, when Sony says something, people immediately take it at face value with zero skepticism, even if its fair to believe that Sony was considering it, then changed their minds after all the backlash MS received. GAF skepticism = Kuririn

Because they haven't been caught in as many lies yet?

 

[Salex_]

Powers was about 5 minutes, Layden about 15. That's ~20 minutes out of 1h45min conference, where games were present for ~1h14min. It's absurd, that some claim those two minor parts overshadowed all the games shown.

It always happens. People will rewrite history to make some "point" and their truth intentions becomes crystal clear. Remember when people were claiming the indie portion of E3 2013 was so long and a bunch of other ridiculous remarks? Well, it was a grand total of....4 minutes long. Yep, ~4 minutes for all of those developers to present their games on stage while over a million people were watching them.

 

[Doomshroom]

Fascinating case study of how a company can so quickly fall out of the graces with their consumers through poor PR, ideation and execution.

I am glad most of the old team have been axed and glad market defines what's acceptable and what's not. MS had better learn a lot from this.

And kudos to Sony to capitalize.

Thats what happend when you have customers who invested in your product and then decides to change direction from gaming to jumping, waving acting like and idiot and tvtvtv sport. Way to screw you customers (me) over, i will think long and hard (thats what she said) before buying another microsoft product.

 

[Neuromancer]

But why are we complete skeptics when MS says something, such as the family sharing plan, they can blatantly come out and say: "YES, we were going to be able to share it just as we said you could". GAF skepticism level 4 super sayan!

On the other hand, when Sony says something, people immediately take it at face value with zero skepticism, even if its fair to believe that Sony was considering it, then changed their minds after all the backlash MS received. GAF skepticism = Kuririn

Because one company has earned my trust, the other one has shat all over it.

 

[Tigress]

Because they haven't been caught in as many lies yet?

Or rather they have been caught up in different lies. Sony has its own issues but where it tends to be bad at isn't the same thing as MS so people mistrust sony in different ways (like living up to their promises is an area Sony is not trusted in where as MS is not trusted in not doublespeaking when they say something).

Basically, Sony has issues but its reputation for its issues are not the same as MS's reputation. So people based on Sony's history are more likely to believe them (though they are less likely to believe that Sony will live up to some hype they build) where as when MS says something they have a history of using a lot of doublespeak so people just have learned to read between the lines with MS.

Basically, MS gets mistrust when they say something cause MS has learned it (as person above me said, caught in more lies). Sony gets mistrust in that they'll live up to some big promise they make (like for example, where's our suspend when off?!).

And in the end, some things are more forgivable than others to people (people are less upset about not living up to the hype than they are about what they feel is being outright lied to and being sneaky about the lies which is what most people view doublespeak as).

 

[Seik]

I would never change a thread title

You sure wouldn't. :lol

 

[Melchiah]

It always happens. People will rewrite history to make some "point" and their truth intentions becomes crystal clear. Remember when people were claiming the indie portion of E3 2013 was so long and a bunch of other ridiculous remarks? Well, it was a grand total of....4 minutes long. Yep, ~4 minutes for all of those developers to present their games on stage while over a million people were watching them.

Yeah, this year it was, that they were just as "TVTVTV" as MS at last year's unveiling event. Last year it was, that there were far too many indies onstage. Both times it was basically the usual "the PSx has no games".

 

[rokkerkory]

Thats what happend when you have customers who invested in your product and then decides to change direction from gaming to jumping, waving acting like and idiot and tvtvtv sport. Way to screw you customers (me) over, i will think long and hard (thats what she said) before buying another microsoft product.

Buncha corporate suit retards running a business they have no pleasure in. I bet Mattrick doesn't even like to play games. "What's your contribution to society" says it all lol.

I can't cast a canvas on all of MS products based on this blunder however. That maybe taking away good things.

Anyways, we got Spencer now and let's see what else he does.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

The DRM thing was pretty crazy.

Sony was pretty clear at the ps4 reviel that they had no plans to do online only DRM, and that the only DRM was going to be the online pass stuff that the ps3 and vita allowed for.

But once the MS rumors were out there, people, and a lot of press, couldn't wrap their heads around that MS would do this on their own, and that sony had to also be involved.

Ditto for the price. When the $500 MS price was rumored, folks swore sony's had to be the same or more. Again, no one wanted to believe MS could be on their own here.

Turns out, they were going at it alone. The result? folks thought that sony had to have done a 180 on their policies in the day between the MS conference and their own.

It was crazy all around.

 

[icespide]

Or rather they have been caught up in different lies. Sony has its own issues but where it tends to be bad at isn't the same thing as MS so people mistrust sony in different ways (like living up to their promises is an area Sony is not trusted in where as MS is not trusted in not doublespeaking when they say something).

Basically, Sony has issues but its reputation for its issues are not the same as MS's reputation. So people based on Sony's history are more likely to believe them (though they are less likely to believe that Sony will live up to some hype they build) where as when MS says something they have a history of using a lot of doublespeak so people just have learned to read between the lines with MS.

Basically, MS gets mistrust when they say something cause MS has learned it (as person above me said, caught in more lies). Sony gets mistrust in that they'll live up to some big promise they make (like for example, where's our suspend when off?!).

And in the end, some things are more forgivable than others to people (people are less upset about not living up to the hype than they are about what they feel is being outright lied to and being sneaky about the lies which is what most people view doublespeak as).

good post. basically we distrust sony and microsoft for different reasons

 

[serversurfer]

Anyways, we got Spencer now and let's see what else he does.

You know, he's not a new hire. I'm not sure why people think he's here to save us from Microsoft. He is Microsoft, and has been for a long time.

J Allard? Father of the XBox and Friend to all Mankind, especially Gamers? He's the guy who wrote the memo that Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish was based on.

 

[FaultTolerance]

You know, he's not a new hire. I'm not sure why people think he's here to save us from Microsoft. He is Microsoft, and has been for a long time.

I don't think anyone thinks he's here to save us from Microsoft. I think lots of people are just optimistic that now that he is in control things are looking up for Xbox as a whole.

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Oh, I'm not saying that, I think we should still say how bad their policies were if it is brought up. But I am saying that I think they have hurt enough I don't think we need to worry they didn't get the point. Unless they do something new bad. And if they continue to do bad stuff, I do think they should ultimately fail. You don't learn, you should fail. Because there should be consequences for doing stuff consumers don't like and it should cause you to fail if you continue to do stuff consumers don't like. There should be consequences to continually trying to introduce bad stuff and it should get worse the more you try it especially if you already got a big message once. Needs to be bigger next time.

There is that, and personally I'm hoping they don't screw the pooch anymore. I don't want to see another Sega out of MS. B/c that would not just be sad (I mean, I'd regret them exiting the market, same with Sony or Nintendo), but ironic. It doesn't matter if you have the least money or the most money, if you do bad by your consumers, it's game over.

Even after the DRM debacle, they still had the audacity to continuing to feed consumer ignorance and confusion of the console's specs and performance. Fortunately, the games have shown that there is an appreciable performance gap between the PS4 and X1 and that MS couldn't really hide behind their bullshit for too long.

Just a few weeks ago they were actually trying to hype up the system's performance again. I can't really remember how, but it was maybe after the Kinectless bundle came out, and a little later they talked about the extra power "significantly closing the gap" or something like that.

And there were so many people eating that up, too. It was laughable.

Ditto for the price. When the $500 MS price was rumored, folks swore sony's had to be the same or more. Again, no one wanted to believe MS could be on their own here.

Turns out, they were going at it alone. The result? folks thought that sony had to have done a 180 on their policies in the day between the MS conference and their own.

It was crazy all around.

You forgot the "they unpacking Eyetoy to make it $399 and undercut MS" stuff.

Bolded hits me in the gut every damn time. It's like people think Sony would forget all the marketshare and mindshare they lost, all the ridicule they suffered when they released the PS3 @ $600. You don't fall from grace that hard and forget what made you fall.

Spoiler

Unless you land on your head, but Sony would be dead and we'd have no PS4

 

[Nibiru]

...are you trying to suggest that they *were* planning it? Because it comes across more like they rewrote it to capitalize on the backlash, not changed their design.

This. There was no "plan" by Sony to do what MS was going to do.

 

[Amir0x]

Was pretty obvious from the presentation itself... parts were very obviously pointed responses to media/general speculation about Sony's stance on various things in the wake of the public airing of MS's plans.

These were things that would never have been in question had it not been for Microsoft's moves, but once it was put in question it both required a response and presented an opportunity.

It has actually been a trademark of NEW SONY since PS4 - they have been remarkably quick to capitalize on any fuck up Microsoft have made, sometimes taking to twitter even moments after some cock up was said.