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Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes HD |OT| - Bears Go To Battle In HD

B

bigf00t

Member
I've been playing this game with my girlfriend quite a bit recently, and we're both pretty addicted. We happen have a pair of TVs and 360s in the house, so we can play 2v2 while sitting together. It's so much better that way, but it can lead to some pretty intense "debates" about what to do, and the occasional finger pointing when we lose. Also, I tend to stick to 3-4 strategies that work pretty consistently, whereas she likes to try out "alternative" builds. Needless to say this drives my ex-MMO min/maxing side crazy...

I'm wondering what other games in a similar vein we could play together, as this is the first game she's really gotten into, and it would be cool to keep her interested. Any suggestions?
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Still having a blast playing this game online. I'm only about level 16 or so right now so it boggles my mind when I come across someone who's over level 100.

Been trying a lot of different build / item combinations and this is what I've come up with so far.

1) Lots of people running Death Knight / Spider Belt builds

2) Faction strength -> Griffin, Necro, Elf, Demon, Academy

3) I love playing Elves. My current favorite is my Patronum build with all stags and either elves or bears. Works well because a lot of players tend to wall of and work on their charging their elite. If I'm going defense I go with the wall-regen gloves, otherwise I go with the charge boots. Unexpected dork perk: yelling "Expecto Patronum" when your stags attack.

4) I just realized this about a match or two ago but Death Knights don't charge like other units. They only get stronger if they absorb strength from the opponent's charging creatures. This is huge for me since my elves tend to get eaten once a charging DK hits the table. I find that once my opponent gets a DK up, I can wall off (even better with gloves) that row - and then set up a row of Patronums / link ready elves / bears to weather the attack. If I'm feeling really balsy, I'll only wall off half way so I can take about half the damage to fill up my Arrow Shot. If another DK hits the table before just keep the wall up and wait for the lull. I can usually get away with this in normal, item-less games; non-linked, Spider-Belt DKs; etc. Spider Belt makes things harder since creatures can chew through your walls - by then it's more of a race.

5) Nightmare-only / Sorcerer-only matches can be a lot of fun as well.

6) Academy is weak, weak, weak. Gremlins are good and Cyrus's Staff is not bad but I rarely seem them online. Their artifacts just aren't that good.

Anyone else rocking out with non-elite units? I've been pretty successful with the Stag, the Nightmare, and the Ghost. Other than that, not really. Fun game, but I keep wishing there was more. More units, more factions, more stages, more music. I'm planning on bringing this up when we meet with UBIsoft at E3. <3

bigf00t said:
I've been playing this game with my girlfriend quite a bit recently, and we're both pretty addicted. We happen have a pair of TVs and 360s in the house, so we can play 2v2 while sitting together. It's so much better that way, but it can lead to some pretty intense "debates" about what to do, and the occasional finger pointing when we lose. Also, I tend to stick to 3-4 strategies that work pretty consistently, whereas she likes to try out "alternative" builds. Needless to say this drives my ex-MMO min/maxing side crazy...

I'm wondering what other games in a similar vein we could play together, as this is the first game she's really gotten into, and it would be cool to keep her interested. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

You may have some luck with Popcap's Plants vs. Zombies then. My wife and I played through it co-op and had a lot of fun. Unfortunately, there isn't as much co-op content, and the difficulty level (outside of survival) is a bit lower. Still, it was a blast and we're both eagerly awaiting a sequel.

Another game we had a lot of fun playing together was Culdcept Saga. I doubt you'll find any action online anymore, but you could always go against the computer or find a few friends to pick it up with you for cheap.
 
W

Worthintendo

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Anyone else rocking out with non-elite units? I've been pretty successful with the Stag, the Nightmare, and the Ghost. Other than that, not really. Fun game, but I keep wishing there was more. More units, more factions, more stages, more music. I'm planning on bringing this up when we meet with UBIsoft at E3. <3
Click to expand...
Every time I play Necro I'll always take Ghosts, without a doubt my favourite unit in the game, just soo good as both an attacking unit and as a defensive unit. If I ever played with items I'd just go with Ghosts and Skeletons, get as many ghosts as ready as quickly as I can and hit them hard and fast.
 
M

maomaoIYP

Member
KuroNeeko said:
4) I just realized this about a match or two ago but Death Knights don't charge like other units. They only get stronger if they absorb strength from the opponent's charging creatures.
Click to expand...
They charge like normal units. Their charging health just increases faster by absorbing.

KuroNeeko said:
Anyone else rocking out with non-elite units? I've been pretty successful with the Stag, the Nightmare, and the Ghost. Other than that, not really. Fun game, but I keep wishing there was more. More units, more factions, more stages, more music. I'm planning on bringing this up when we meet with UBIsoft at E3. <3
Click to expand...
Unicorns are the single most versatile Sylvan units, they're just a little bit weaker than the deer, but they have a 2 turn charge time, and give a 3 column shield while charging. The strength of the shield is dependent on the number of turns left to charge on the unicorn. With 1 turn left, each shield absorbs 20 damage. The way the shield absorbs damage is also different from that of Griffin's Knights, the shield simply negates all damage that is less than its strength, and does not get weaker upon taking damage. This means a single unicorn shield can negate all damage from a Succubus. By charging 2 adjacent unicorn, the max damage they can absorb from a champion is [20+20+20 (from its health)]x2 = 120.

Unfortunately a setup with only elites and no champions still loses out to one that has only champions and no elites most of the time....
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
maomaoIYP said:
They charge like normal units. Their charging health just increases faster by absorbing.


Unicorns are the single most versatile Sylvan units, they're just a little bit weaker than the deer, but they have a 2 turn charge time, and give a 3 column shield while charging. The strength of the shield is dependent on the number of turns left to charge on the unicorn. With 1 turn left, each shield absorbs 20 damage. The way the shield absorbs damage is also different from that of Griffin's Knights, the shield simply negates all damage that is less than its strength, and does not get weaker upon taking damage. This means a single unicorn shield can negate all damage from a Succubus. By charging 2 adjacent unicorn, the max damage they can absorb from a champion is [20+20+20 (from its health)]x2 = 120.

Unfortunately a setup with only elites and no champions still loses out to one that has only champions and no elites most of the time....
Click to expand...

@Death Knights

Are you sure? Their gauge fills up like normal, but I could have sworn that their attack power wasn't increasing if I didn't have any units charging on the field. Will have to go back look again. :(

@Unicorns

Yeah, unicorns are a lot of fun. I didn't know about the math behind their shields, but I knew it was good when a pair of them (and some thorny walls) completely soaked up a Champion attack.

I try to get by without using Champion units simply because it seems like if you and your opponent are both going Champion - then it's going to come down to luck and who goes first. I know CW said earlier in this thread that he believes that going first is not necessarily an advantage, I disagree. Being able to charge a Champion, if not on the first turn, a turn earlier than your opponent is pretty big. In Chess (as well as Go and MTG), going first IS an advantage because you have the initiative - or the power to make things happen. So instead of putting myself in a situation (Champion vs. Champion) where I'm relying on luck (better board placement) to overcome his natural advantage (initiative), I'm willingly giving that up to go with speed (low charge times) and maneuverability (smaller space requirements of Elites.)

Sure, it may sound good when typing it out - but the fact is that you're right. I just like playing with Elite units instead of doing the whole "let's see who can charge a champion first." Trolling with Sorcerers is a lot of fun too. :D

Nice Sasaki Nozomi.
 
M

maomaoIYP

Member
KuroNeeko said:
I try to get by without using Champion units simply because it seems like if you and your opponent are both going Champion - then it's going to come down to luck and who goes first. I know CW said earlier in this thread that he believes that going first is not necessarily an advantage, I disagree. Being able to charge a Champion, if not on the first turn, a turn earlier than your opponent is pretty big. In Chess (as well as Go and MTG), going first IS an advantage because you have the initiative - or the power to make things happen. So instead of putting myself in a situation (Champion vs. Champion) where I'm relying on luck (better board placement) to overcome his natural advantage (initiative), I'm willingly giving that up to go with speed (low charge times) and maneuverability (smaller space requirements of Elites.)

Sure, it may sound good when typing it out - but the fact is that you're right. I just like playing with Elite units instead of doing the whole "let's see who can charge a champion first." Trolling with Sorcerers is a lot of fun too. :D

Nice Sasaki Nozomi.
Click to expand...

I think what CW literally meant that being the host wasn't an issue, but it's a given that in the case of identical champions vs champions, whoever charges his first is most likely at an advantage. But since in most initial unit placements, neither side is likely to charge their champion in the very first turn without some lucky cascades, who gets to go literally first becomes a non-issue (because it's based on luck).

That's why different factions having units with different charge times should factor into your strategy. For example having Varkas' Angel charge (6 turns) a turn before Anwen's Dragon (4 turns) doesn't mean very much.

My favourite setup is actually Deers and Unicorn, but against solo death knights, solo angels or sword masters (ZOMG) it's very very hard to keep up. Also while you do get faster attacks with elites only, it's next to impossible to mount an effective defense while they are charging, simply because of the sparser unit placement.

She's soooooo fine
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Got to sit down and play a bit last night. Seems like the community is dying down a bit. I actually came across an empty lobby for the first time.

Spent almost the whole time rocking out Anwen and the Deer squad. I'm still trying to settle on an item (Vine Gloves vs. Boost Boots) but to be perfectly honest - I think I prefer non-artifact battles. Seems like you need a bit more strategy to pull it off. Maybe I'll give the antlers a try too...

Played my first 30-minute battle - Anwen / Deer vs. Markal / Death Knight / Bone Dragon. It was close but I've pretty much confirmed that DKs do NOT gain AP as they charge. They only gain it by absorbing AP from charging units. Also, I know that Bone Dragons are supposed to get stronger as they "eat" idle units but I wonder if this includes walls. I was having a VERY hard time weathering their attacks via walls. I was filling 6+ columns up with walls and still eating a crap load of damage.

People still mostly playing as Varkas and Markal. The usual pattern for me is I'll wait for them to choose (while planning on choosing Anwen.) The host will almost always wait for me to pick someone with his cursor on Varkas. If I don't choose Varkas - they switch to Markal. If I change to Varkas or Fiona after that, they switch back to Varkas. If I switch back to Anwen, they go back to Markal. *sigh*

Gained a bit more respect for Aiden. His special with 2 - 3 rows of walls chewed through my elves, deer, walls, and a huge chunk of my life bar. I went from about 60+ to 3 life. Problem is his faction's champion / elite units. While I like the Succubus, her 4 charge time is just one turn too long - especially when you compare it to Anwen's dragon. Nightmare is good with the appropriate artifact. Everyone uses Pit F(r)iends. Anyway, I still like Aiden and use him with Hell Hounds sometimes, but his other units are just kinda meh.

Got my first rage quit last night. Went Fiona for a change against the opponent's Markal. I went Skeletons, Ghosts, Ritual Dagger against his Assassins, Death Knights, Boned Dragons, Talon. I knew that if he got something charged up, it'd be game over to I kept Daggering his units to keep him from charging while I took them out with skeletons and ghosts. I think he could have won if he'd kept at it but he quit and didn't respond to my gg. :( Felt kind of bad for him but I didn't with my unit / artifact composition - that was the only way I could stay ahead.

Still loving the game and am looking forward to unlocking the two remaining multiplayer artifacts left.
 
M

Miletius

Member
Best way I've found to beat Vakras players is Inferno with Sorcs, Hellhounds, and Pit Fiends for damage or play Arwen with Archers, Green Dragons, and Unicorns, and rush them down quickly.

If Djinn weren't so terrible then Cyrus or Nadia with Gremlins, Djinn and Rashakas (for mana drain) would be great against them too. Ice Block really ought to make any frozen units Shatter with 1/2 or 1/4 the life so that it would actually be a useful ability.
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
At a rough spot with this game now. I really enjoy it and when you get a game with someone who isn't playing Varkas / Markal - it's enjoyable.

Problem is that most people stick with those two. Also, as a dedicated 2P player, I'm almost always going second. I tried to give CW's "going first isn't necessarily an advantage" statement a chance but I think otherwise now more than ever.

Going first means you get a lucky first turn, or reasonable second turn champion out. It's not unusual to have Varkas earn half his charge bar and have an Angel / Swordsman up by the second turn. I've been running archers to try and combat this but it rarely works. A wall + unit means that my arrows aren't going through and since I'm 2P, I only get one chance.

One Varkas gets a charge and a full MP bar it's all over. Markal isn't much better. A charged Skull Demon destroys elves. If a second hits the board (not that hard to do) then there's nothing you can do. Keep in mind this is especially possible because player one has initiative (at the cost of only one move.)

Suggested fixes might include lowering the power on champion units, reducing the amount absorbed by Skull Demons, -2 move for player one, or reduced starting power for units charged in the first X turns, and reduced MP gain for Varkas.

Academy units really got the rough end of the stick as well. They have a few decent units but the big muscle dood and Djinn are just not that good. :p

I used to really enjoy the game but with fewer players, a fairly clear dominant strategy that most players seem to be using, and a few balance issues are taking their toll.

Thanks for the great game, though. Really looking forward to the next installment if UBI gives you the green light (and you have the interest.)


edit:

One thing I never expected to see was the old Ken / Ryu switch-a-roo from Street Fighter. The other player puts his cursor on Aidan or some other unit (or cycles through the different characters) waiting for you to confirm with Y. When you finally do they swing over to Varkas and try to get you before you can switch. Just pick a dood and stick with him already.
 
K

Kafel

Banned
You can beat Varkas / Markal with only linked and merged deers with the power to jump over all walls.

You would be able to kill your opponent in less than 5-6 turns, before the champion unit attacks.
 
F

Fodder76

Member
Meier said:
Can't believe this game is still $15 on PSN...
Click to expand...

What part of that can't you believe?

If I had purchased this on disc for $60 I would have been satisfied with my purchase. At $15 this is one of the best deals of all time.
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Kafel said:
You can beat Varkas / Markal with only linked and merged deers with the power to jump over all walls.

You would be able to kill your opponent in less than 5-6 turns, before the champion unit attacks.
Click to expand...

I usually play without artifacts but I'm going to have to give this a shot. I love going Deer / Unicorn if I can get away with it.

Looking over what I wrote, I don't think all of those balance changes are necessary. I do think the MP charge rate on Varkas is too high and I think some of the units could use some tuning (Titan, Vampires, etc.) but I'm very happy with the game. I could have spent $60 on it and been completely satisfied with my purchase. I even tried to pick up the DS version while I was in the States for E3 but couldn't find it anywhere. ;.; I've got the icons and even the premium pack. I'm a (mostly) satisfied customer.
 
F

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
SolidSnakex said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-21-clash-of-heroes-hd-announced-for-pc
Click to expand...

OH SO FUCKING YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ceebs, it's the best puzzle RPG there is simply because the puzzle mechanic is brilliant. Plus the graphics are really nice. On DS, this is my most played game by far, too bad the AI in skirmish isn't strong. And elves are broken on the DS. But I'm replaying the campaign, can't put this down for too long :-D
 
S

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
I think I pumped more time into this game's single player more than any other single player game this gen.

Are there any other games like this? I know Puzzle Quest gets thrown around but I dunno, this game is more than just matching three similar objects, there's a level of Magic The Gathering-esque combat to it that I have yet to see elsewhere.
 
S

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Nice. Crom hinted at it a few weeks back, and that's the only reason I've held out this long.

I will purchase this particular title at the earlier opportunity!
 
B

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Lttp, but playing a crapload of this lately. Completely stole away my time with bastion and am consistently in the 'one more battle' mindset which is killing my free time.

Already nearing the 20 hour mark and only in campaign 3. Huge game!
 
G

GhostWriter24

Member
This game is magnificent, almost as addicting as the original Puzzle Quest.

I've been playing the DS iteration, but might have to upgrade for the splendid HD visuals.
 
N

n8

Unconfirmed Member
Hell yes; I'm all down for PC release. Never got the proper chance to play the multiplayer with the DS. I'll be ready.
 
A

Aaron

Member
whalleywhat said:
Seems more likely than cross-game chat.
Click to expand...
It's about the same. The problem with a game that uses a lot of 2D assets is it eats up memory. The game needs to dump all those assets from memory and load up new ones every time it loads. Due to the nature of the game, it can't really stream anything either.

Adding cross game chat would be OS function. Unless they could shrink the memory footprint of the current OS, they'd need to use more existing memory, and games that are using all the ram they can, like this one, wouldn't work properly.

Sure, shorter load times and cross chat would be great, but there are hard limits of what any console can do.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
About dang time... sheesh been waiting for like FOREVER for a PC release... sorry iOS people still gotta wait on what would be a great iPad game....

Hope while it's a straight port that the controls and menus work well... granted I have a wired 360 controller but you know how it goes...

PS: Do NOT fail me Ubi... get this shit on Steam where everyone wants it!
 
W

whalleywhat

Member
Aaron said:
It's about the same. The problem with a game that uses a lot of 2D assets is it eats up memory. The game needs to dump all those assets from memory and load up new ones every time it loads. Due to the nature of the game, it can't really stream anything either.

Adding cross game chat would be OS function. Unless they could shrink the memory footprint of the current OS, they'd need to use more existing memory, and games that are using all the ram they can, like this one, wouldn't work properly.

Sure, shorter load times and cross chat would be great, but there are hard limits of what any console can do.
Click to expand...
Well, the assets are gorgeous. I guess this is the price we pay.
 
F

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Aaron said:
It's about the same. The problem with a game that uses a lot of 2D assets is it eats up memory. The game needs to dump all those assets from memory and load up new ones every time it loads. Due to the nature of the game, it can't really stream anything either.

Adding cross game chat would be OS function. Unless they could shrink the memory footprint of the current OS, they'd need to use more existing memory, and games that are using all the ram they can, like this one, wouldn't work properly.

Sure, shorter load times and cross chat would be great, but there are hard limits of what any console can do.
Click to expand...

The thing is, Critter Crunch has virtually no loading times and uses full 1080p assets. And it features a lot of animation though. There are poor loading algorhytms all over this game.
E.g. go to the pre-fight screen, see the oponent is too strong, cancel out, FULL reload. The cutscens which have single static pictures and a voiceover? Heavy loading. It all smells like the framework from the DS was reused, which would explain a lot.

Sinatar said:
I just hope the PC version gets the load times in check, they are ridiculous on 360.
Click to expand...

Well, with at least 3-4 gigs of RAM it would be miraculous if that was screwed up.

I'm really curious how the PC version will turn out because I'm there Day 1.
 
N

Nyx

Member
Bought MS Points for From Dust yesterday, played it for a couple of hours, good fun.

Then I wanted to spend the rest of my points and noticed I still had the trial for Clash of Heroes, played it a bit more, then bought the full game and played that for 6 hours straight.

AWESOME game !!!
 
M

mrbagdt

Member
my wife plays this online all the time, local multiplayer is what we spend most of our time doing though. a few things that i think should be changed (that have probably already been mentioned above).

it would be nice if we could just do 'random' for our heroes we select at the start. at this point that is really the only way to keep the game fun, otherwise you just always select the heroes that are the most powerful. we just wind up scrolling through the heroes and randomly stopping on somebody, but i guess that works. we also dont play with the artifacts on- i think its a more pure game without artifacts on and that it helps to keep luck from playing to much of a roll in the game.

i think the champions could be more balanced as well. the special abilities of each champion are so varied its kind of silly- the sword master and death knight are so strong, while abyssal lord and titan are nearly useless. maybe we are missing out on some of the 'strategy' of the game (you just think they are useless cuz you dont know how to use them noob) but winning games between certain factions doesnt seem satisfying because it just doesnt feel balanced.

playing online is still kind of fun, but most people do the same boring varkas strategy and dont mix it up. i think we are ranked 670 now or something around there.

regardless, it was definitely a worthwhile purchase for me and i have gotten plenty of hours out of the game.
 
K

kassatsu

Banned
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-16-might-and-magic-coh-dlc-announced

Stupidly brilliant puzzle RPG Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes gets a DLC expansion later this year, Ubisoft has announced.

The I Am The Boss add-on does pretty much what it says on the tin, letting you play as one of four of the game's boss characters in Quick Battle and multiplayer modes.
Click to expand...

PC version is out 22 September. Pre-order it now from UbiShop and you'll get the DLC for free when it launches.
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Just curious but has there been any mention of balance tweeks with the patch?

Still playing stupid amounts of this game, but I'm pretty much stepping out of lobbies the minute I see someone pick Varkas.

I'll be picking up the DLC as well, but I hope they manage to sneak in a few balance tweeks here and there. Griffin Empire, for one, needs some work. There's almost no reason to choose Godric over Varkas. Knights are probably a bit strong and Varkas' meter charges at an absurd rate.

The Academy probably needs the most work. Djinn and mages are both pretty underpowered. A majority of the artifacts are also not that good compared to the Amulet and "break walls for MP" artifact.

I feel like Haven (Elves) is balanced quite well. The core units are varied and each have their own roll. The champion and elite units also have their own uses and are interesting to use. The druid doesn't seem to get much love though. The artifacts are also quite decent, with none of them being blatantly overpowered than the rest.

The Necro faction looks pretty balanced as well, though the artifacts don't quite get as much love. I probably see the Spider Belt (rarer now) or the artifact that makes walls weaker used the most. As a Haven user I used to have a big bone to pick with the giant Skull Demon dudes - but I think they're still fair.

Overall Inferno is very strong, but not very well balanced. The core units are fine but the elite and champion units could use some tuning. There's little incentive to go with an Abyssal Lord over a Pit Fiend. Also, I see very few Nightmares / Succubii out there. Pit Fiend, followed by Pit Fiend / Sorcerer, is the most common build. The biggest two rough spots here are 1) the discrepancy of power between Aidan and Jezebeth and 2) the lack of a good reason to use ANY artifact other than the ring. While Jezebeth does bring an interesting metagame to the table, she is clearly outmatched by Aiden. If anything, Aidan is probably a little too easy to use. His ability + the ring puts him up there with Varkas for King of CoH. I used to think that Varkas was number one, but recently Aidan is giving him a run for the money.

mrbagdt said:
it would be nice if we could just do 'random' for our heroes we select at the start. at this point that is really the only way to keep the game fun, otherwise you just always select the heroes that are the most powerful. we just wind up scrolling through the heroes and randomly stopping on somebody, but i guess that works.
Click to expand...

I agree that having a "random" option would be fun. Another thing you can try when you play locally with your wife / friends is to set it up so that you choose which units / heroes your partner will use. You may want to set some up some house rules like a "minimum 1 elite / champion unit required" or you might get stuck with Jezebeth / core units vs. Jezebeth / core units.
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
steam preorder is up. but with the whole from dust thing i'm hesitant on preordering unless we can get confirmation that there's no surprise DRM lol.

and is the DLC only for preordering? saw that it's free. will it stay free?
 
M

mrbagdt

Member
KuroNeeko said:
Another thing you can try when you play locally with your wife / friends is to set it up so that you choose which units / heroes your partner will use. You may want to set some up some house rules like a "minimum 1 elite / champion unit required" or you might get stuck with Jezebeth / core units vs. Jezebeth / core units.
Click to expand...
that would actually be pretty fun, i think we will give that a try!

i agree with all of your other comments. varkas is just lame. when you get attacked by a hero who is charged to 200+ using linking and his special, what on earth can you possibly do? its just cheesy.

you obviously have thought a lot more about this game than me- i dont look to deep into the artifacts and stuff.

this was the first i had heard of any patch and any dlc- it would be neat to see a few updates and changes to the game!
 
M

mrbagdt

Member
something is fouling up the online play for me on ps3. every time i join a game with another person, it hangs up when i try to select the character. eventually it hangs until it says 'such and such has left the game' and i have to start over. maybe im the only one dealing with this but i cannot play online at all right now.
 
S

Syril

Member
I notice there's a DLC for this that let's you play as the bosses in Vs. games. It also mentions that it includes the "Advanced Opponent" features. Is that an AI difficulty or something?
 
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