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[James Sawyer Ford]

Perfect Dark Had a Bumpy Road, Will Release at Least One Year after Tomb Raider, Says Insider

A Crystal Dynamics insider said that Perfect Dark had a bumpy development road and is expected to release at least one year after Tomb Raider

wccftech.com

Miller, a Crystal Dynamics insider who accurately gave information in the past about the studio and Avengers, shared this in the Avengers thread and thought it was worth its own thread.

Tomb Raider is full steam ahead, Perfect Dark I've heard has hit a roadbump or two. You'll see the former before the latter.

I would indeed expect at least a year between them.

Tom Raider also been in developement longer than most people expected.

Tomb Raider has actually been in development for a lot longer than people know, though it did restart when they shifted from Foundation to UE5. It's been in the cards for a while now.

This is my most anticipated game for Xbox, it’s sad to see it really struggle to get going. If this rumor is true we probably can’t expect it for another few years.

 

[Magic Carpet]

 

[Represent.]

What a fucking shitshow going on over at Xbox. Im gonna sell my X and if the games deliver ill buy another used down the road.

 

[ADiTAR]

I would lower my expectations to the earth's core.

The way they revealed the game with someone talking about how it's not just about shooting and it's going to be an eco-sci-fi, from an ecological angle, I knew it was toast. Perfect Dark was all about shooting, it was a sequel to the greatest shooter of that era with a very silly story. That's the problem with some modern Western developers that focus on story instead of gameplay.

They should have revealed it with gunplay that's balls to the wall.

 

[Raven77]

Are there any Xbox games not in development hell right now? I was one of the first few thousand people to sign up for Xbox live when it first launched and have had a subscription NON STOP ever since. But my word, this generation is a colossal disappointment so far.

Let's hope they can turn things around with Starfield, etc.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

How is it possible that every Xbox game hits "roadbumps," even when developed by an outside studio? What is the common denominator for these issues?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The way they revealed the game with someone talking about how it's not just about shooting and it's going to be an eco-sci-fi, from an ecological angle, I knew it was toast.

That was concerning, but that person is no longer with the studio so who knows.

I mean - making a PD game should not take years to figure out. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

A cool gadget based FPS with missions that can be tackled in numerous ways. That’s it. Recapture that magic.

It’s really not rocket science

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

How is it possible that every Xbox game hits "roadbumps," even when developed by an outside studio? What is the common denominator for these issues?

Poor management and probably prioritizing superficial diversity over actual talent and passion.

But The Initiative was supposed to be Microsoft’s next “coalition” / another AAAA studio grown organically. It seems there are massive growing pains

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Poor management and probably prioritizing superficial diversity over actual talent and passion.

But how can Xbox's disfunction impact outside teams like this? Is someone at Xbox just not approving anything that Crystal Dynamics puts out?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

But how can Xbox's disfunction impact outside teams like this? Is someone at Xbox just not approving anything that Crystal Dynamics puts out?

I don’t think CD is at fault here, they only just recently inherited the project

Apparently TR was further along and that’s what most of the studio is working on

 

[abacab driver]

If the game actually looks like shit when the gameplay is revealed, I'll believe this rumor.

Until then, it's just words.

 

[Fess]

That was concerning, but that person is no longer with the studio so who knows.

I mean - making a PD game should not take years to figure out. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

A cool gadget based FPS with missions that can be tackled in numerous ways. That’s it. Recapture that magic.

It’s really not rocket science

Especially with a gazillion FPS devs internally.
I always hoped it would be third person though, still hope they’ll do it if only as a bonus choice. But they wouldn’t dare to do Joanna justice from that perspective with how much MS care about modern audience Twitter noise.

 

[Heisenberg007]

How is it possible that every Xbox game hits "roadbumps," even when developed by an outside studio? What is the common denominator for these issues?

It's an interesting conversation. And there are a few reasons why these issues come up:

1) First, the probability of issues depend on how talented your in-house teams are, your production pipeline is, and the tools you've built over years of advancement and refinement. XGS currently lacks in almost all of these areas. On the other hand, PlayStation has these areas perfected, and they have an excellent xDev team. The same studios produce different quality of work when they work independently vs. when they work with PlayStation's xDev.

• For example, Sumo Digital produced the excellent Sackboy when working with PlayStation. Sumo Digital also produced the awful Crackdown 3 when working with XGS.
• Supermassive produced the highly acclaimed Until Dawn when working with PlayStation. They followed it up with the underwhelming The Dark Pictures when they worked without PlayStation.

2) Second, the production and quality of games also depend on the feedback from the publisher. If someone has experience making high-quality AAA games day in and day out, they can steer the ship more accurately. XGS currently doesn't have that experience.

Here is an example from Deviation Games, who are currently working with PlayStation Studios, on the type of feedback they receive and benefit from PlayStation.

"You have to look for a partner with a track record that is absolutely undeniable in terms of a consistent string of quality hits. I don't have to tell you about Sony's track record. It's obvious. The number of awards they win. It's hit after hit after hit."

"It's absolutely mind-blowing. For us, we have never been in a situation like this before, where we've got everything we could possibly ask for."

"Sony's background, its facilities, the things that it opens up to us has been amazing. I don't want to give away the secret sauce, but Sony has the ability to speak to game developers in a way that we're used to talking. That's really where the magic happens."

Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation Studios, on this process of external development with Deviation Games:

"What I offer is all the central services that have facilitated our studios... Guerrilla Games, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, all of that is available to them. We have incredible producers that are invited by Dave and Jason to give the harshest possible feedback. And then they ask us to give them more. It's been completely open and transparent."

Imagine having a streamlined production pipeline as well as access to teams Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, and Insomniac. That's a dream come true that will improve the quality of the game.

However, if your own in-house teams are struggling, you can't provide that level of support to external developers. What would CD learn from 343i, Undead Labs, The Initiative, etc.?

 

[Kacho]

If we don’t get a glimpse at games like PD, Fable, Avowed in June I’m going to really question how much longer Microsoft can keep this charade up.

 

[Fess]

However, if your own in-house teams are struggling, you can't provide that level of support to external developers. What would CD learn from 343i, Undead Labs, The Initiative, etc.?

MS also have Id Software in-house, and Arkane, and The Coalition. I imagine that anyone doing first person shooters or action in general could learn a thing or two from them.

I’m not sure the MS studios are as tightly connected though. Like there were rumours that Playground struggled to get Fable right since it’s their first RPG… And this happens when they have Bethesda, Obsidian, InXile under the same roof…
Do they even talk to each other??

 

[StealthGoblin]

It's an interesting conversation. And there are a few reasons why these issues come up:

1) First, the probability of issues depend on how talented your in-house teams are, your production pipeline is, and the tools you've built over years of advancement and refinement. XGS currently lacks in almost all of these areas. On the other hand, PlayStation has these areas perfected, and they have an excellent xDev team. The same studios produce different quality of work when they work independently vs. when they work with PlayStation's xDev.

• For example, Sumo Digital produced the excellent Sackboy when working with PlayStation. Sumo Digital also produced the awful Crackdown 3 when working with XGS.
• Supermassive produced the highly acclaimed Until Dawn when working with PlayStation. They followed it up with the underwhelming The Dark Pictures when they worked without PlayStation.

2) Second, the production and quality of games also depend on the feedback from the publisher. If someone has experience making high-quality AAA games day in and day out, they can steer the ship more accurately. XGS currently doesn't have that experience.

Here is an example from Deviation Games, who are currently working with PlayStation Studios, on the type of feedback they receive and benefit from PlayStation.


Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation Studios, on this process of external development with Deviation Games:


Imagine having a streamlined production pipeline as well as access to teams Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, and Insomniac. That's a dream come true that will improve the quality of the game.

However, if your own in-house teams are struggling, you can't provide that level of support to external developers. What would CD learn from 343i, Undead Labs, The Initiative, etc.?

We’ve heard from many developers including Insomniac when they were independent, that Sony has an incredible production pipeline.

I think that’s probably true at the AAA end as developers have access to best in class music production, mocap, experienced producers, QA etc

Xbox are on a journey to be that strong across all areas but it’ll take time. We’ve seen multiple 3rd party/independent teams brought into not only support, but develop/lead main parts of games. While co-development or support studios are not uncommon, the configuration for Perfect Dark, Halo and other games suggests the internal pipelines are not great.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Microsoft runs all of its businesses like it’s core enterprise software business. Any developer or administrator knows the pain of working with MS software that just barely works, and in the business world it’s generally accepted that the product will suck and be just barely adequate for its use case.


But that doesn’t work in the gaming world. Nadella isn’t interested in video games, MS is interested in owning your whole digital life and getting you on a subscription plan. Once you’re paying every month (or better, have it stacked and prepaid) they don’t give a shit.


At some point people need to take a good look and actually think. Xbox really doesn’t have any games, and their first party failures are a legitimate criticism that shouldn’t be hand waved away as trolling. Asking fans to be patient for the better part of 10 years is a really long time. Even the legendary Nintendo game droughts were never this bad.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Sucks if true but I’m not in any hurry to play this one so as long as it comes out in good shape, that’s good enough for me. PSV2 and Starfield are gonna keep me occupied for awhile.

 

[Klosshufvud]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Microsoft runs all of its businesses like it’s core enterprise software business. Any developer or administrator knows the pain of working with MS software that just barely works, and in the business world it’s generally accepted that the product will suck and be just barely adequate for its use case.


But that doesn’t work in the gaming world. Nadella isn’t interested in video games, MS is interested in owning your whole digital life and getting you on a subscription plan. Once you’re paying every month (or better, have it stacked and prepaid) they don’t give a shit.


At some point people need to take a good look and actually think. Xbox really doesn’t have any games, and their first party failures are a legitimate criticism that shouldn’t be hand waved away as trolling. Asking fans to be patient for the better part of 10 years is a really long time. Even the legendary Nintendo game droughts were never this bad.

The shocking part is that they used to be geniunely great in publishing video games. Remember what Bioware put out under Microsoft? Or Bungie? Or Epic? Or Team Ninja? Age of Empires 2 is a MS game and has a legendary status and still played today. Something happened at Xbox/MS some decade ago that just killed their consistent and praised games output.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I think Heisenberg007 is correct, xDev and SIE as a whole has a very long history of working with outside teams on successful games. You reminded me that Nintendo also has also turned bad teams into good ones, so I guess experience is important here.

It seems to me that Xbox is still set up to only know how to properly make FPS, TPS, and racing games. Their internal teams need to experiment with new genres, learn what works and what doesn't. You can't buy your way out of incompetence and inexperience.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

How is it possible that every Xbox game hits "roadbumps," even when developed by an outside studio? What is the common denominator for these issues?

Because MS actually isn't a gaming company. They're absolutely clueless and always have been. It's their deep pockets that have kept them afloat.

That's the difference between MS and Sony/Nintendo.

Surprised it took this long for people to catch on.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Maybe tomb raider is due out quite soon and perfect dark after that, which may totally be the plan from the beginning between crystal D and MS.

there is not a single game in development ever that isn't pretty much bouncing over "roadbumps" all the way until it releases.

I have a few friends in high up positions at studios and Its really eye opening what you get to hear.

Every one loves drama but only focuses on it when it's time to. Microsoft always seems to be in the news for this stuff becuase people jump on it to get the most views and pile on. Think of the current news cycle.

Microsoft lays off 10000 staff
They have a big show coming up
Leaker makes fake news about halo and 343
Now this

All eyes are on MS this January 2023 so we are getting the people that want exposure chiming in right now.

Game development is fucking hard work, I could list examples of how other studios struggle with game development...but I would say just go and watch the "raising Kratos" documentary and think how much of a shit show that is at stages and that's only the stuff Sony signed off on allowing to be in the documentary. If you have sense you can just imagine how bad some of it was On occasion.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

The shocking part is that they used to be geniunely great in publishing video games. Remember what Bioware put out under Microsoft? Or Bungie? Or Epic? Or Team Ninja? Age of Empires 2 is a MS game and has a legendary status and still played today. Something happened at Xbox/MS some decade ago that just killed their consistent and praised games output.

This is also a great point. They used to be able to work with outside teams on excellent exclusives, but something has changed. What happened to Ninja Gaiden, Jet Set Radio Future, Lost Oddesy, Project Gotham Racing, Mass Effect 1, Halo 1,2,3, TES: Oblivion, Microsoft?

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Maybe tomb raider is due out quite soon and perfect dark after that, which may totally be the plan from the beginning between crystal D and MS.

there is not a single game in development ever that isn't pretty much bouncing over "roadbumps" all the way until it releases.

I have a few friends in high up positions at studios and Its really eye opening what you get to hear.

Every one loves drama but only focuses on it when it's time to. Microsoft always seems to be in the news for this stuff becuase people jump on it to get the most views and pile on. Think of the current news cycle.

Microsoft lays off 10000 staff
They have a big show coming up
Leaker makes fake news about halo and 343
Now this

All eyes are on MS this January 2023 so we are getting the people that want exposure chiming in right now.

Game development is fucking hard work, I could list examples of how other studios struggle with game development...but I would say just go and watch the "raising Kratos" documentary and think how much of a shit show that is at stages and that's only the stuff Sony signed off on allowing to be in the documentary. If you have sense you can just imagine how bad some of it was On occasion.

Everyone loves to take shots at MS I have noticed lately. Far more so that usual, even though tbh they deserve the criticism. Look at the front page and it’s endless but it is what it is. If they weren’t giving people ammo to use it wouldn’t be such an issue i suspect.

The only real issue I see with the criticism is how people are acting as though their trials and tribulations are a personal affront to their lives. It’s pretty weird.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Everyone loves to take shots at MS I have noticed lately. Far more so that usual, even though tbh they deserve the criticism. Look at the front page and it’s endless but it is what it is. If they weren’t giving people ammo to use it wouldn’t be such an issue i suspect.

The only real issue I see with the criticism is how people are acting as though their trials and tribulations are a personal affront to their lives. It’s pretty weird.

I completely agree with you that Microsoft deserve the heat in many ways. As a fan I want to see results and I stuck by my "I'm giving them 2023 to have a solid release schedule" 2022 aas a shit show and after defending 343 and halo infinite around launch (I still enjoy the campaign) the game is clearly in a shit state. Matchmaking woes, lack of updates etc. Piss poor.

But I just can't get on this constant negative pile on. We will see it about naughty dog when last of us 3 is announced and also when it's nearly coming out. Jason Schrier will have a field day.

Like you said it's cool to pile on MS and I feel good that I can look at it and just go...ahh well I have a logical mind.

i mean, the shit that happened at naughty dog with last of us 2 would make this stuff look like nothing but people choose to ignore that and literally call them naughty gods. A studio that burnt out around 60 to 70 percent of its creative leads before release by scrapping so much content and re jigging it to where they had to hire Hollywood special effects professionals because they'd burnt our all game developers in the area and we're short staffed.

If that's not "roadbumps" I don't know what is.

Just remember guys. Sony manage all their studios perfectly and there's no issues at all there......

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I completely agree with you that Microsoft deserve the heat in many ways. As a fan I want to see results and I stuck by my "I'm giving them 2023 to have a solid release schedule" 2022 aas a shit show and after defending 343 and halo infinite around launch (I still enjoy the campaign) the game is clearly in a shit state. Matchmaking woes, lack of updates etc. Piss poor.

But I just can't get on this constant negative pile on. We will see it about naughty dog when last of us 3 is announced and also when it's nearly coming out. Jason Schrier will have a field day.

Like you said it's cool to pile on MS and I feel good that I can look at it and just go...ahh well I have a logical mind.

i mean, the shit that happened at naughty dog with last of us 2 would make this stuff look like nothing but people choose to ignore that and literally call them naughty gods. A studio that burnt out around 60 to 70 percent of its creative leads before release by scrapping so much content and re jigging it to where they had to hire Hollywood special effects professionals because they'd burnt our all game developers in the area and we're short staffed.

If that's not "roadbumps" I don't know what is.

Just remember guys. Sony manage all their studios perfectly and there's no issues at all there......

To be fair if MS was releasing games at the same rate and quality as Sony, people would likely be far less critical of the issues at hand. Sony tends to get a pass because regardless of their issues, their games generally release on time and to both commercial and critical success. That’s the key difference here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

To be fair if MS was releasing games at the same rate and quality as Sony, people would likely be far less critical of the issues at hand. Sony tends to get a pass because regardless of their issues, their games generally release on time and to both commercial and critical success. That’s the key difference here.

Absolutely true and I agree 100 percent. Ms triple A output has been a joke recently. I am hoping they turn it around this year.

Then we will see what the consensus is about their studio management after that (if it happens) and if people act like it's all roses at their preferred studios or not.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Absolutely true and I agree 100 percent. Ms triple A output has been a joke recently. I am hoping they turn it around this year.

Then we will see what the consensus is about their studio management after that (if it happens) and if people act like it's all roses at their preferred studios or not.

Should be a good year. Starfield is very likely my game of the generation, and Forza always delivers. Redfall I’m not sold on yet but the comparisons to Far Cry are promising. I’m also curious to see what ID Software is up to since I just got around to playing the expansions for Doom Eternal.

 

[Riky]

I don't think Crystal Dynamics started work with The Initiative until September 2021 and The Initiative wasn't a big studio in itself. Then the game is using UE5 which was released April 2022.
So late 2024 was the earliest you would ever see this probably 2025. Tomb Raider could well be 2024 so this makes sense.
As long as it's good it doesn't really matter, we've waited decades already for the next instalment.

 

[Robb]

Sucks if true, but I don’t know what to even expect from the game so it’s difficult to really care at this point.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Maybe tomb raider is due out quite soon and perfect dark after that, which may totally be the plan from the beginning between crystal D and MS.

So it was Microsoft's plan from the beginning to assemble the A-Team -- by hiring top-talent from Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica -- start Perfect Dark production (the first AAAA game), let go of 50% of that A-Team, disband the core group of people, bring in Crystal Dynamics to complete the game, pause Perfect Dark, and have CD first release Tomb Raider instead?

Was it also MS's plan to announce the game in 2020 and then release it around 2026?

The logical point is that none of this was part of some grand genius plan. Things just fell through and didn't go as expected.

Every one loves drama but only focuses on it when it's time to. Microsoft always seems to be in the news for this stuff becuase people jump on it to get the most views and pile on. Think of the current news cycle.

Microsoft lays off 10000 staff
They have a big show coming up
Leaker makes fake news about halo and 343
Now this

There is no grand conspiracy against Microsoft and Xbox. They are in the negative news because several of their studios have development and management problems. The proof is in the pudding: none of the big games they showed in 2020 has released:

• Avowed
• Fable
• Perfect Dark
• Hellblade
• State of Decay 3
• Everwild, etc.

Game development is fucking hard work, I could list examples of how other studios struggle with game development...but I would say just go and watch the "raising Kratos" documentary and think how much of a shit show that is at stages and that's only the stuff Sony signed off on allowing to be in the documentary. If you have sense you can just imagine how bad some of it was On occasion.

No Sony studio has struggled like this, however. That's why we don't hear negative stuff about that. When there were issues with Japan Studio and Bend Studio, we all heard about them and criticized PlayStation until they fixed the problem.

The problem with Santa Monica wasn't that they couldn't complete God of War and had to outsource the primary development to another AAA studio. The problem with Santa Monica was that they were working on another project they had to cancel after 36 months.

Once they started developing God of War, they finished it in ~3 years and shipped a polished Game of the Year.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

the Universe / Xbox / Fans:

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[feynoob]

Bethesda purchase seems to more lucrative then ever as times goes on.

Xbox would have been fucked badly without Bethesda.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

How is it possible that every Xbox game hits "roadbumps," even when developed by an outside studio? What is the common denominator for these issues?

you said it yourself: MS

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Bethesda purchase seems to more lucrative then ever as times goes on.

Xbox would have been fucked badly without Bethesda.

nah.

Game Pass is was has been carrying the brand

 

[feynoob]

nah.

Game Pass is was has been carrying the brand

You need games.
While gamepass is the vocal point for the brand, you still need studios to turn those games.

With Bethesda, Xbox can finally solve their draught games.

 

[feynoob]

An interesting tidpit why Xbox is having these issues.

Microsoft's contractor policy is actually a problem for its first-party studios and has led to the delaying and rebooting of various games. The policy essentially says that contractors cannot work at Microsoft for more than 18 months lest they become an employee. Microsoft doesn't really want to pay contractors as employees, so instead of hiring them, the contractors are instead contracted to work for just 18 months. This isn't a lot of time for game development.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I don't think Crystal Dynamics started work with The Initiative until September 2021 and The Initiative wasn't a big studio in itself. Then the game is using UE5 which was released April 2022.
So late 2024 was the earliest you would ever see this probably 2025. Tomb Raider could well be 2024 so this makes sense.
As long as it's good it doesn't really matter, we've waited decades already for the next instalment.

The game was clearly rebooted internally. It doesn't seem like 2024-2025 was the initial plan.

This is from 2020, and the game was already playable.



Even Drew's daughter was playing the game 3 years ago. It at least must have looked like a polished game for a kid to play and have fun.



It's almost 3 years later now, and the game is at least 2-3 years away, which means it was internally rebooted when The Initiative offloaded it to Crystal Dynamics.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

sincerely, I don't see things getting better.

i remember Jez and Rand saying: 'Oh this is a common practice in the industry, sony does it all the time"


and i was like: Nah-ah.


this kind of arrangement of a very small "AAAA studio" developing the idea (maybe some prototypes) then an established Studio making the game is not common practice.

is like a random new studio developing the "design Document" and going to Naugthy Dog and say: "Make this real".

then you could argue: "But they say it was co-develop, a collaboration".

and i ask you: what happened next? people left due to creative difference.

what is the point? in the example i give. dont doubt ND will take over the game (with their own creative people and vision).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You need games.
While gamepass is the vocal point for the brand, you still need studios to turn those games.

With Bethesda, Xbox can finally solve their draught games.

not really.

sure they will have more games. but the drought of the games they really need still will be there.

Bethesda/Zenimax release scheduling is not enough.

 

[ADiTAR]

An interesting tidpit why Xbox is having these issues.

That's a year and a half, that's a long long time to be part of something. And the main key people should be full employees. The contractor thing is common practice in the US across industries.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Why is every xbox game having these issues?

 

[Kokoloko85]

Why is every xbox game having these issues?

Because their management sucks.
Its been clear they lost their way after 2010ish.

Why people like to pretend Xbox Management hasn't gone shite and then go on to encourage they buy more studios, IP’s and publishers to mess up, is just pure blind fanboyism, simple as. Or your a shill.

No1 would want Xbox’s bad management to take over more beloved IP….Forever.
When they cant look after their own IP. Just fanboys so they can say I have it on Gamepass….winner.

I bet true Bethesda fans arent happy that MS is sacking Bethesda staff. Bet Xbox fans will probably say it doesnt effect it Though.
Lets pretend for them. Of course its not bad firing staff from a struggling studio that keeps delaying its title after messing up their last title ( Fallout 76 ).

Heres a sinking ship, but its the richest ship in the world. Lets add more people to the ship, so we can say this ship is great and carries more people than any other ship…..

Im not saying other platforms or publishers are perfect, not even close, but there not going out buying tons of IP’s and studios when they cant make their own succeed.

 

[NorbertK]

It's an interesting conversation. And there are a few reasons why these issues come up:

1) First, the probability of issues depend on how talented your in-house teams are, your production pipeline is, and the tools you've built over years of advancement and refinement. XGS currently lacks in almost all of these areas. On the other hand, PlayStation has these areas perfected, and they have an excellent xDev team. The same studios produce different quality of work when they work independently vs. when they work with PlayStation's xDev.

• For example, Sumo Digital produced the excellent Sackboy when working with PlayStation. Sumo Digital also produced the awful Crackdown 3 when working with XGS.
• Supermassive produced the highly acclaimed Until Dawn when working with PlayStation. They followed it up with the underwhelming The Dark Pictures when they worked without PlayStation.

2) Second, the production and quality of games also depend on the feedback from the publisher. If someone has experience making high-quality AAA games day in and day out, they can steer the ship more accurately. XGS currently doesn't have that experience.

Here is an example from Deviation Games, who are currently working with PlayStation Studios, on the type of feedback they receive and benefit from PlayStation.


Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation Studios, on this process of external development with Deviation Games:


Imagine having a streamlined production pipeline as well as access to teams Guerrilla, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, and Insomniac. That's a dream come true that will improve the quality of the game.

However, if your own in-house teams are struggling, you can't provide that level of support to external developers. What would CD learn from 343i, Undead Labs, The Initiative, etc.?

And this is another example:

Lucid Games makes for Sony Destruction All-Star a killer game vs Geometry Wars for Acti, poor game...

Sumo Digital made Sackboy from the beginnig, meanhwile they jump in the middle of develpoment for C3. And Sumo is not a singile team, they have several diffrent teams.

​

 

[Riky]

The game was clearly rebooted internally. It doesn't seem like 2024-2025 was the initial plan.

This is from 2020, and the game was already playable.



Even Drew's daughter was playing the game 3 years ago. It at least must have looked like a polished game for a kid to play and have fun.



It's almost 3 years later now, and the game is at least 2-3 years away, which means it was internally rebooted when The Initiative offloaded it to Crystal Dynamics.

We don't know what they were playing was, was it even Perfect Dark. The studio started in 2018, from scratch. Then staffing up etc so maybe a small part on an engine that it wasn't going to ship on was playable. That's a long way from a fully scripted fleshed out game. The Initiative would have know they would have to grow massively to ship an AAA game, that's obviously when they decided to bring in Crystal Dynamics and some people left as they probably thought they should staff themselves which would have actually took longer.
Also since it's an UE5 project they would have known it couldn't ship as they would have had a timeline when the engine was ready which was 2022. So in all reality nobody could have thought this game could ship before 2024 and we haven't mentioned COVID.

So it's going to be 2024/2025 and probably was always going to be. The timescale they mention is in relation to Tomb Raider which we also don't have a date for, but 2024 looks likely.

None of this will matter if the game is good.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Troubled path for MSFT and some of their games.

 

[Elysion]

I‘m more interested in that new Tomb Raider. Do we know how long that‘s been in development? Can we expect it for 2024?

 

[DenchDeckard]

So it was Microsoft's plan from the beginning to assemble the A-Team -- by hiring top-talent from Rockstar, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica -- start Perfect Dark production (the first AAAA game), let go of 50% of that A-Team, disband the core group of people, bring in Crystal Dynamics to complete the game, pause Perfect Dark, and have CD first release Tomb Raider instead?

Was it also MS's plan to announce the game in 2020 and then release it around 2026?

The logical point is that none of this was part of some grand genius plan. Things just fell through and didn't go as expected.

There is no grand conspiracy against Microsoft and Xbox. They are in the negative news because several of their studios have development and management problems. The proof is in the pudding: none of the big games they showed in 2020 has released:

• Avowed
• Fable
• Perfect Dark
• Hellblade
• State of Decay 3
• Everwild, etc.

No Sony studio has struggled like this, however. That's why we don't hear negative stuff about that. When there were issues with Japan Studio and Bend Studio, we all heard about them and criticized PlayStation until they fixed the problem.

The problem with Santa Monica wasn't that they couldn't complete God of War and had to outsource the primary development to another AAA studio. The problem with Santa Monica was that they were working on another project they had to cancel after 36 months.

Once they started developing God of War, they finished it in ~3 years and shipped a polished Game of the Year.

While the first parts of your post are completely correct and I 100% agree with you....To act like Naughty Dog hasn't been in the press more times than most others for Incompetent management, Terrible working environment, horrible work culture, bleeding staff, huge staff turnover, Crunch literally rinsing out nearly all staff in the Santa Monica area is completely un true but I guess you just choose to ignore or not know that stuff. Their own staff have literally said that the only reason they ship games is they have unlimited budget from Sony and literally preferential treatment where they can pretty much get away with anything.

Theyve literally had to hire staff straight out of colledge and hollywood because they'd burnt through every single other available professional in the area.

 

[MagnesD3]

Xbox is terrible lol, remember when they had all that clout in the 360 era despite the red ring and they let that all burn to the ground over the course of the last 2 generations, Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Dude the last Xbox I bought, the BONE, literally was a Halo MCC and Killer Instinct machine (both now on PC lol), I think one of the only other games I got for it Jedi fallen order ran like crap on it, what a mess.