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[nkarafo]

To dispel the inherent "100% accuracy" for FPGA cores, here are some discord quotes from FPGAzumSpass himself about the N64 specifically (and the rest of 5th gen consoles for than matter):

There are FPGAs with enough internal memory for RDRAM, but super expensive. Otherwise you need external RAM that really fits the needs to be able to reach 100%.Still, the design must be perfect and all details known, what is near impossible with gen5

N64 would need 9Mbyte for RDRAM if you want the expansion pak.List price for FPGAs offering this is around 4k$ for AMD and 7k$ for Intel.Even in high volume with 20% of list price this is still expensive

So a perfect, 1:1, 100% accurate N64 core would need "all details known" which is exactly what i was saying all this time about FPGAs not being magic and needing the same information and resources emulator devs also need to accurately emulate each system. And apparently, knowing all the details of how 5th gen machines work is "near impossible". Which also explains why we still don't have 100% accurate PS1/SAT/N64 software emulators yet either.

And on top of that, he suggests a perfect N64 core would need an FPGA chip that costs 4k. Which i didn't know it would be so high.

This is mostly something for Youtubers like VGEsoterica to think about. Just because something has "100% compatibility" and "can play all games to completion" doesn't mean it's "100% accurate". Or even "99.9%" for that matter. Even old Mupen forks could have 100% compatibility with some tinkering and that's a highly inaccurate HLE emulator.

This whole thing about how FPGAs are so much more accurate than Emulators, etc, started as marketing talk from Analogue when they were selling the NT. It's just overhyped advertising stuff meant to sell more products to a casual crowd who need something that "just works". That's why Analogue always used HLE emulators and cheap Pi devices as comparisons but always ignored the accurate emulators on more powerful PCs that even helped them develop their SNES FPGA core. Yeah, they forgot to mention this in their ads.

Watch them do the same exact thing with their upcoming N64 device. They will compare it to old PJ64 and Mupen emulators in Pi4 or Pi5 using GlideN64 and will never mention Ares, Gopher or Parallel. They will ramble about how "N64 emulation sucks" ignoring all the advancements the last 10 years. They will even mention the good old "Mario Kart Jumbotron" effect. Quote me on all that.

Fact is, FPGA and software emulators have their own advantages and disadvantages, but accuracy is not an exclusive thing for either. Let's just stop with this myth already.

 

[KloetenQuetsche]

This 100 percent accuracy debate is not the point. With fpga devices you don't have to fiddle around with ten thousands of settings.

Just play. That's the point for me!

I hate retroarch.

 

[Ozzie666]

This 100 percent accuracy debate is not the point. With fpga devices you don't have to fiddle around with ten thousands of settings.

Just play. That's the point for me!

I hate retroarch.

I hate retroarch too. I'm a bit of a mark for analogue products, I like the overall package and feel of their products. They just work without having to worry about things. I have a fair few cartridges still for multiple systems. I'd even buy an Atari Jaguar Analogue if they made one.

Mister is pretty good too, hopefully they upgrade to the next popular community hardware soon.

 

[keefged4]

Until they can figure out retroachievements on these I'll be sticking with emulation. The idea is cool for those who don't have the means or access to original hardware though. If I want an "accurate" experience I'll just hook my N64 up to my tink 5x.

 

[Sp3eD]

For $200 I can get an android emulation handheld that offers TV connectivity that will play not only everything this will do, but also let you gain access to Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, Wii, NDS, 3DS, Wii U, Switch. Wii U, 3ds, and switch are limited at this point but it's pretty much a "Switch of emulation" with its functionality. That to me is worth it, but I'm one of the plebs where everything not being cycle perfect is perfectly fine as long as it's not broken.

I get that isn't what this thread is ultimately about but I've watched this forum and many others get caught up in the "mister hype" for years promising crazy perfect gen 5 and down systems and wanted to add another perspective I also personally almost fell into the hype when I was looking for the next thing to upgrade too when I had my pi3 in like 2018, but the $400+ price at the time and the back orders of the hardware to get into it made me do my research.

I've watched nkarafo come into countless FPGA threads over the years and while not shitting on FPGA by admitting it's advantages,, dispel the unwarranted "magic savior of retro gaming" moniker it gets every single time it's brought up.

 

[nkarafo]

This 100 percent accuracy debate is not the point. With fpga devices you don't have to fiddle around with ten thousands of settings.

Just play. That's the point for me!

I don't want to be the guy who argues with everyone again but... That's also the case with Ares and Gopher64.

Those are all Gopher64's settings:

That's it. That's the whole thing. A bunch of extras that you don't have to touch at all.

Ares is similar but it has a few additional settings due to being able to emulate more systems than just the N64. Otherwise, for N64 it's similarly simple.

In both cases it's basically impossible to mess up a game by having the wrong options. You will always have correct N64 emulation even if you try to break it on purpose.

I hate retroarch.

I hate retroarch too. I'm a bit of a mark for analogue products, I like the overall package and feel of their products. They just work without having to worry about things.

While i don't hate RetroArch, i love it actually, it's not the only alternative for FPGAs or the solution for accurate N64 software emulation.

In fact, neither Ares or Gopher have yet a RetroArch core. So you don't have to worry about all the RA settings.

FPGA is still going to be a better solution for hooking up with a CRT TV. It's simpler than doing it with a PC.

But the issue of N64 emulation being a hell of per-game settings and plugins has been solved since a decade now.

 

[Buggy Loop]

This 100 percent accuracy debate is not the point. With fpga devices you don't have to fiddle around with ten thousands of settings.

Just play. That's the point for me!

I hate retroarch.

Exactly this

Nobody is gonna notice a clock slip or something of the kind. They are solid, reliable, no tinkering and accurate enough that it is the best way to play old games imo.

 

[Harlock]

You can tinkering with fpga as much like Retroarch. The mass production of fpga is good to lowering the price anyway.

 

[kevboard]

This 100 percent accuracy debate is not the point. With fpga devices you don't have to fiddle around with ten thousands of settings.

Just play. That's the point for me!

I hate retroarch.

you don't need to tinker with emulators either.

if you download Ares and load an N64 rom, it will just work. fiddling around in the settings only comes into play once you decide to ho beyond the defaults, when you want to increase the resolution or use texture packs etc.

nearly every modern emulator, especially for 2D systems, but also including PS1 and N64, will just work out of the box with zero settings changes.

the most you'll gotta do is map your controller, and even that is mostly automated these days.

 

[nkarafo]

The "emulators need too much tinkering" is another relic from the distant past.

N64 emulators were particularly bad because both Mupen and PJ64 had a ton of sensitive settings exposed along with all the different plugins. Even the RDB file that had premade per-game settings wasn't enough because that was only made for the default plugins. And even then it was far from ideal. I remember myself struggling with per-game settings myself during those days.

But when Parallel got released it mitigated this issue by a lot. At least you were now 100% set when it came to graphics emulation and you only had to worry about other core settings. So that was more than 70%-80% of the headaches gone. That was 10 years ago.

With the release of Ares, even the core settings are not a thing anymore. Neither are the plugins. N64 is as plug and play and "it just works" as possible. More so than other emulators in fact, as if they are trying to really hammer the point home.

 

[lakitu1982]

It really isn't; it's achieving a result via diff means. This isn't "Honda Accord or Porsche 911" where both are cars...but one is "more special"

It's more like "water colors vs oils" where both paint a picture but the method is wholly diff to get the result

Not hard to understand is it.