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[tranciful]

Is there any advantage to hunting in the woods offline? Don't you get more stuff if you do a mission? Except for the occasional honey/machalite run, I'm not finding any need to go into the woods ever. I initially hated the way the farm is in this game, but I just buy popfish now to keep it operational. I've grown to appreciate that I don't need to make farm trips after every hunt like in MHFU.

I finally got the long sword, though I now have a greater appreciation for the lance (I sometimes used the gunlance in past games). When I get the chance, I'll usually do a charge move for tons of hits until my sharpness is reduced -- is this actually effective? I can get a ton of hits in one of these charges but I'm not sure if those hits actually do much damage. Just curious if this is something more experienced hunters actually do.

I just found out there's no Tigrex in this game

I don't think I'll ever be a fan of underwater combat.

edit: I did the urgent Lagiacrus quest where you repel him. He felt very familiar -- was there something just like that monster in previous games?

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Since you're getting your resource points from the fish, the only Moga exclusive benefit is acquiring commodity items to trade with the Argosy captain. Capturing Moga monsters give you a higher chance of landing those starred commodities in the Hunt Report.

The lance charge itself does less damage than your stab attacks, eats sharpness more quickly, and can disrupt teammates. The finisher attack does more than a single stab but I'm pretty sure you can do multiple stabs in the same amount of time it takes to start a charge and canceling into the finisher. The charge can be semi-useful for mobility purposes (especially underwater) but only if you aren't plowing over teammates in doing so. Unless you're trolling, don't be that guy knocking everyone out of the way just because the monster fell down and you're trying to get closer for a few extra hits :lol.

 

[Emitan]

Can I reiterate how annoying it is that the Wii has only one functional USB port? Tri is the only game I play off the disk because i need a keyboard.

 

[Raide]

Can I reiterate how annoying it is that the Wii has only one functional USB port? Tri is the only game I play off the disk because i need a keyboard.

USB hub not work with the Wii?

 

[Emitan]

USB hub not work with the Wii?

I haven't thought of that. I'll try and find my rock band USB set (probably need a self powered one).

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Can I reiterate how annoying it is that the Wii has only one functional USB port? Tri is the only game I play off the disk because i need a keyboard.

I heard you can use both by messing with the IOS's or something.

 

[tranciful]

Since you're getting your resource points from the fish, the only Moga exclusive benefit is acquiring commodity items to trade with the Argosy captain. Capturing Moga monsters give you a higher chance of landing those starred commodities in the Hunt Report.

The lance charge itself does less damage than your stab attacks, eats sharpness more quickly, and can disrupt teammates. The finisher attack does more than a single stab but I'm pretty sure you can do multiple stabs in the same amount of time it takes to start a charge and canceling into the finisher. The charge can be semi-useful for mobility purposes (especially underwater) but only if you aren't plowing over teammates in doing so. Unless you're trolling, don't be that guy knocking everyone out of the way just because the monster fell down and you're trying to get closer for a few extra hits :lol.

Haha gotcha. Though I just want to confirm

I got this off the wiki and don't see any reference to what their * and ** means =/

Charge attack is 20% -- is that per hit? Because if I have good sharpness, I can get in like a dozen hits in a row (I only do the charge when the monster is down and I have a lot of sharpness). If each one is worth that 20% of my raw damage, that's a lot of damage.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The Damage Formula FAQ on GameFAQs is more comprehensive - I'm guessing the asterisks mean that different hits under those headings do different damage. If I'm reading the lance chart correctly, only the first hit is 20% and the non-finisher hits thereafter are 16% per hit. Coupled with the faster degradation of sharpness, those 16% hits aren't worth it IMO so it's probably best to get the initial 20% hit and end with the 40% finisher.

I did forget to mention that on status lances, if the initial hit has the status animation, every subsequent hit on the charge will induce status as well.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Can I reiterate how annoying it is that the Wii has only one functional USB port? Tri is the only game I play off the disk because i need a keyboard.

Can you esplain in a little more depth. I play Tri off of a USB thumb drive with a keyboard attached just fine.

I actually thought I lost keyboard functionality at one point when going to the latest update. It was an IOS that blocked disk reloads. Turns out it didn't make my keyboard stop working, it just made it so that it was no longer hot swappable. By this I mean, I had to have the thing plugged in prior to firing up the game, otherwise it would never recognize it. Before I could just plug the keyboard in whenever I wanted to use it.

Oh, and thanks for helping me out with my GS issues guys.

Use this damage calculator. I used it last week to decide on AUL or AUM with Critical Draw.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Lttp, just started this yesterday... Qick question, is there any weapon type that's fluid as you attack? ie lets you change direction while the combo animation is playing out?
Attacking with Sword+shield or GSword feels restrictive since I can't "aim" while I attack...

Also, wtf is up with monster scanning? Why is it done on wiimote instead of ccpro?

 

[Little Green Yoda]

With the SnS, you can reposition by rolling out of your combo and starting a new one as you come out of the roll. Similarly, the lance/SwAxe users can sidestep in the midst of a combo to reposition as necessary. There are some limitations to how much you can change your direction of attack in a given instant (you're not going to be able to turn 180 degrees quickly) but I don't think there are any instances where you'd need to change your direction of attack that drastically.

 

[upandaway]

You're gonna need to roll if you want to change direction as you attack. Hell, you're gonna need to roll if you want to do.. anything as you attack. Just roll every time after an attack, period.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Lttp, just started this yesterday... Qick question, is there any weapon type that's fluid as you attack? ie lets you change direction while the combo animation is playing out?
Attacking with Sword+shield or GSword feels restrictive since I can't "aim" while I attack...

Also, wtf is up with monster scanning? Why is it done on wiimote instead of ccpro?

There's an option for the monster book where you can control it with the d-pad I believe.

You're new so I'm gonna tell you about something that works exactly the same as adding monsters to the book, only its a million times more useful: the Memo Pad.

You can view it easily by bringing up the menu and hitting R. What I had trouble with for the longest time was figuring out what it was for. When you go to craft something, look for required materials that are grayed out because you don't have enough. You can actually point at them and drag them to a little book in the bottom right corner of the screen, exactly like documenting a monster.

Now you have a quick reference to items you need to collect and it gives you a nice reassuring chime if you happen to gather one during the hunt. Unfortunately, there's no special notification that you have such items in your quest rewards.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

You're gonna need to roll if you want to change direction as you attack. Hell, you're gonna need to roll if you want to do.. anything as you attack. Just roll every time after an attack, period.

Yeah, it's like L cancelling. Gets you out of the animation quick, usually.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I've been kind of jonesing for a good multiplayer/co-op RPG. How viable is this for a totally ignorant-to-the-franchise player?

I've platinumed Demon's Souls and 82%'d Dark Souls, so I think I'm decent at the genre.

 

[Emitan]

I've been kind of jonesing for a good multiplayer/co-op RPG. How viable is this for a totally ignorant-to-the-franchise player?

I've platinumed Demon's Souls and 82%'d Dark Souls, so I think I'm decent at the genre.

It's certainly easier to get into than Freedom Unite. I only have about 30 hours playtime (I stopped playing because my average playtime was like 5 hours at a time) but it has a good tutorial.

 

[Chuckpebble]

The guys that dedicated a video podcast to the series (Social Dissonance) actually did an episode where they played Demon's Souls and mentioned some similarities. I'm sure if Monster Hunter fans dig DS, then it could easily work in the other direction.

I personally haven't played DS yet, but I'm very interested in those games.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Okay, I'm not 10 hors in and I can't really feel the combat. All weapon types feel weird to me except Sword n shield and that takes way too long to kill even the most basic monsters. Overall, the combat just feels stiff.

Also, does the inventory pouch have the potential to grow larger? 'Cause it being constantly full is very annoying.

 

[Ultratech]

Okay, I'm not 10 hors in and I can't really feel the combat. All weapon types feel weird to me except Sword n shield and that takes way too long to kill even the most basic monsters. Overall, the combat just feels stiff.

Also, does the inventory pouch have the potential to grow larger? 'Cause it being constantly full is very annoying.

Have you experimented with all of the weapons yet? SnS is actually fairly mobile, and with the right upgrades, can be fairly good.

And yeah, it's gonna take a while to kill stuff the first time around. Once you get access to bigger and better stuff, expect it to go a lot faster.

As for Inventory...make sure to dump everything you don't need into your Storage Box after a mission. You really don't need THAT much stuff on you at all times. However, getting a full inventory is inevitable if you're gathering. You can get upgrades for the Storage Box eventually, but you shouldn't need anything past the 1st one I think (I forget how many upgrades you can get.) Your actual inventory doesn't get any bigger sadly.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

12 hours in, I've gotta ask... WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THIS GAME? Why are there so few weapon types? Why on earth is the sword and shield the only fast weapon and why does it deal such insignificant damage to the point of taking a long time to kill even the weakest most basic enemies after being upgraded 3 times? Who thought it'd be a good idea to not be able to use items while in combat mode? Why on earth can't you run in combat mode? Why is combat so stiff (in that whenever you enter a combo or strike you can't change the direction of yourself or the strikes... or move until it's finished) in an action game? Is this really a 2010 game? oO

This game is making ridiculous gameplay mistakes that have been fixed since 2001! This is the most archaic-feeling game I've played in the last couple of years... Oo

How is not being able to change equipment on the go (as long as you're carrying it) a good idea? Who in the hell decided this whole "withdraw weapon to fight but put it away for... everything else" was a good idea? Why on earth would the first boss (great jaggi) take me 43mins to kill with the second most powerful weapon available in the game so far (bone hammer+), whilst constantly hitting him? He wasn't even hard, he just had way too much health, to the point of turning him into one of the most annoyingly boring boss fights I've ever played!! Who decided to make such a small item pouch for a game with so much emphasis on loot? Why on earth would monster scanning be on the wiimote IF YOU'RE PLAYING WITH THE CCP?

The sad part is... I could go on!

I wasn't expecting the best game ever, but I was at least expecting it to be more functional!
The gameplay is awful!! It's an impedement!
There's a game I love here, and most of all there's a game I want to love... I'm loving most of the atmosphere, theme and overall feel of the game, but the ridiculously obtrusive and obsolete gameplay is getting on my last damn nerve. I can't play the damn thing for 5 minutes without becoming frustrated and annoyed at it!

 

[ajim]

MH3 was my first MH too, and it was a pain in the ass adapting to the controls, the way the character moves (felt like I was controlling a truck at first), the withdrawing weapons and the steep difficulty curve.

However, if you continue on I guarantee you you'll find a game that you'll love and adore. When you get the controls down pat, and you start to learn how to use the other various weapons (great sword, switch axe <3) etc you'll find a very rewarding game. There isn't anything quite as rewarding as bringing down your first Rathian, or Lagiacrus.

I don't play with the CC - maybe you should try with the Wiimote (I don't get the hate, it's a good control scheme) and see how you like that?

I say just stick it out, try some other weapons and keep doing what you're doing, the game will open up. And honestly, 12 hours in Monster Hunter land is like 20 minutes in other game land. You've pretty much only scraped your knees.

If you're not feeling the single player, jump online, it's much more fun. I did single player entirely before even going online, however, most do it the opposite.

Now I consider myself a seasonsed MH vet with over 500 hours in MH3 and 600 in Monster Hunter FU on the PSP. Can't get enough of the games!

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The action in the game is less ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK and much more like a chess game. Managing the delays in your attacks (and memorizing them), and dodging when appropriate is key. Knowing when and if you're able to use items is also part of the strategy.

It feels archaic, but it's quite a rewarding design. Not for everyone. Also, the first 10 or so hours are the worst, once you get past that, it really starts to ramp up. I can see not liking the game if you go in expecting DMC.

Edit- The Wiimote tracking for CCP is a horrible design decision though, you're right about that.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

MH3 was my first MH too, and it was a pain in the ass adapting to the controls, the way the character moves (felt like I was controlling a truck at first), the withdrawing weapons and the steep difficulty curve.

However, if you continue on I guarantee you you'll find a game that you'll love and adore. When you get the controls down pat, and you start to learn how to use the other various weapons (great sword, switch axe <3) etc you'll find a very rewarding game. There isn't anything quite as rewarding as bringing down your first Rathian, or Lagiacrus.

I don't play with the CC - maybe you should try with the Wiimote (I don't get the hate, it's a good control scheme) and see how you like that?

I say just stick it out, try some other weapons and keep doing what you're doing, the game will open up. And honestly, 12 hours in Monster Hunter land is like 20 minutes in other game land. You've pretty much only scraped your knees.

If you're not feeling the single player, jump online, it's much more fun. I did single player entirely before even going online, however, most do it the opposite.

Now I consider myself a seasonsed MH vet with over 500 hours in MH3 and 600 in Monster Hunter FU on the PSP. Can't get enough of the games!

I do not intend to give up until I've at least spent some good 10 or so hours online, of course... I just terribly needed to vent.

The action in the game is less ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK and much more like a chess game. Managing the delays in your attacks (and memorizing them), and dodging when appropriate is key. Knowing when and if you're able to use items is also part of the strategy.

It feels archaic, but it's quite a rewarding design. Not for everyone. Also, the first 10 or so hours are the worst, once you get past that, it really starts to ramp up. I can see not liking the game if you go in expecting DMC.

Edit- The Wiimote tracking for CCP is a horrible design decision though, you're right about that.

Now, see, that first paragraph, that's just compromising, working your way around the game's flaws. I have no problem with that (one of my favrouite games ever is Silent Hill, and we all know how much of a pain to control that game is), but let's call things by their name. The action is seriously flawed, and this "chess" like-quality should not be present in an action-centric game. It's manageable, but hardly optimal. You're creating excuses for it, and that's frankly unnecessary.

As for the archaic feel the game possesses, I'm fine with it in all instances except where the controls come in. It's an unforgivably negative design choice no matter how much I eventually grow to love the game.
That said, I will press on, at least for 15 or so more hours, the latter 10 of which will be spent online.

I was not expecting DMC. At all. But I was expecting PSO, or hopefully Demon's Souls, a comparison which I think is fair... ie: a fluid action RPG experience whose core might be hard to grasp at first but eventually burrows itself into your heart... in MH, I've found the opposite. The core is very easy to get into and you instantly attach yourself to this world, but the experience is the complete opposite of fluid, as your process of interaction is a hindrance. A hindrance whose entire existance is of a technical nature and should therefore have been properly fixed before release. It detracts from immersion and it frustrates in areas where frustration should never be an issue.

I could understand you brushing aside any criticism based on that comparison I just made if I were complaining about the loadings or the visuals... however I cannot let this one slide as the hardware limitations have nothing to do with what's wrong with MHT. It's just bad design. It limits your enjoyment, immersion and accessibility.
This is a flaw which I feel was only tolerated on a worldwide scale because of the franchise's pre-established popularity and fanbase. This game was developed in 2009, and yet, visuals aside, it feels older than PSO, a game developed and released a deacade earlier... PSO had the same clunky combat problems, but everything else was more functional than MHT.

I imagine I'll eventually get used to this game and start properly enjoying it, but this type of approach cannot be encouraged. Unrelenting cruelty in spirit is a matter of preference, but unrelenting cruelty in the overall gameplay/controls department is just plain wrong.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'm not making excuses for anything. The game is what it is, and the series will likely change its combat mechanics very slowly if at all in the future. Like I said, the series isn't for everyone and the game doesn't compromise for those that don't take to the way it's played. Many, many people enjoy the way it is now, but some like you hate it. It's always going to cater to the former more than the latter.

And the game isn't cruel. It's a lot of things, but cruel or punishing aren't it. Monster Hunter is a difficult game, but also a rewarding one.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

I'm not making excuses for anything. The game is what it is, and the series will likely change its combat mechanics very slowly if at all in the future. Like I said, the series isn't for everyone and the game doesn't compromise for those that don't take to the way it's played. Many, many people enjoy the way it is now, but some like you hate it. It's always going to cater to the former more than the latter.

And the game isn't cruel. It's a lot of things, but cruel or punishing aren't it. Monster Hunter is a difficult game, but also a rewarding one.

Of course it'll change the combat mechanics, they'll have to.

Yes, the game is what it is, but the "chess" like quality you mentioned isn't planned... it's the byproduct of an obsolete design that needs to be revamped. You can pretend it gives it an aura of strategy and whatnot, but in the end, it's just a flaw.

I get that it isn't for everyone, but the "no compromise" argument isn't even in question here. What makes it a niche (well, not really as it's very popular, but you know... a game whose appeal is not universal) or somewhat inaccessible game is the complexity of it's world and the overall punishing difficulty of it, not the way the controls are designed. That's just something that needs to be fixed, it's not compromising... it's evolving.

Many people enjoy the way it is now? For sure. Just like many many people enjoyed RE tank controls. Doesn't change the fact that they were a product of bad design, which, when fixed was met with universal acclaim.

What makes Monster Hunter unique and "not for everyone" aren't the iresponsive and outdated controls. They need fixing, that's something that can't be argued against. And fixing them wouldn't be compromising. The way you put it it's like you're saying people would stop enjoying Monster Hunter if the controls got a facelift.

Controls need to be responsive, not a clunky obstacle. And that's all I hate... the controls, not the game. All the other problems wouldn't even be eating at me if I actually had freedom when doing things. I wouldn't mind slow weapons if I could actually compensate for movements made after I initiated my attack! And all that rant about the Great Jaggi was more about the frustration of constantly hitting him once and him moving and the rest of the combo missing him and all the pent up rage than anything else. I understand that it's a team game, meant to be played with others.

As for the cruel thing, really? After I mentioned Demon's Souls you still feel you need to explain that to me. Also, did you even read my post?

I said Monster Hunter was cruel in a wrong way. Hard but rewarding is the right type of cruel. Frustrating controls/combat system is the wrong one. Hard is only a merit whe something is functional. Super Meat Boy is a masterpiece because everything you do is your own fault and you're given intuitive, responsive controls and all the proper tools and advantages, you need only use them correctly. In Monster Hunter, you get unintuitive controls and reduced functionality tools you need to learn to maneuver around before you can enjoy the game. And that's just bad design. No matter how you put it.

 

[Boney]

I don't understand what you're bitching about

 

[Riposte]

"My position in this argument can't be argued against! Fact!"

Turns out there are people who see nothing "wrong" with Monster Hunter's controls and can actually use them quite well (since the game is balanced around it). Is the reader to suppose to take online forum rants of frustration as something worthwhile? Being bad is one thing, being pompous about being bad is pretty odd. (Though I guess it is quite common all things considered.)

EDIT: I guess I should say a little more. All games work on a balance between what the player can do and what the game wants them to do. It is so silly to assume the only natural state of things (the only "right' way) is the one which gives the player complete freedom. So much so that no one actually believes that. e.g. Super Meat Boy (a bad game btw) would "control much better" if the player could put Meat Boy anywhere he wanted on the screen and he wasn't tethered to the ground with gravity, i.e. he could fly like a STG. Obviously that would break the game as it was designed a certain way to challenge your tool set (though not particularly well, since it is a bad, usually-easy game). Monster Hunter is about slow, calculated use of hitboxes and animation lag. It is about learning the boss inside and out and using that knowledge to safely put your weapon hit box in the right place and the right time. Being able to cancel out of those animations (making more things safe) or allowing the player to freely manipulate his hit box would simply make the game easier (ultimately meaning you have to learn less). If MH had any major flaws in its combat, most of them were fixed by Tri (no inaccurate hit boxes on enemies/attacks).

 

[Emitan]

I don't want to say "you're playing it wrong"... but you are.

Of course it'll change the combat mechanics, they'll have to.

Yeah they should totally start messing up the gameplay of one of the most popular series in Japan.

 

[Bentles]

Actually the strategic element seems to be pretty planned out. I'd guess almost all of the delays are deliberate. Look at how long it takes you to heal and sharpen your sword. You really have to time these movements, just like how you have to time when to attack and when to sheathe and run. And later on in the game you get armour that lets you remove some of these delays, which can play into your strategy.

Also, think about it. Are you really fighting the controls here? Does the game do different things when you press the right buttons? Nope. It does it just the same every time. You have to experiment and find a weapon that feels right for you and then you have to learn to make decisions based on how the controls are, not on how you think they should be. I love using the Great Sword. It's the slowest thing ever but if you can predict a monster's moves and execute a charged attack it's huge damage. With the Great Sword you can link attacks together and roll after attacking to take away some of the delay after attacks, but if you attacked from a bad position, from which you can't escape, and you get hit it's entirely your fault.

Beating Jaggi is frustrating the first time for everyone who hasn't played MH (I was like WTF). You need to watch him carefully. He always spins twice. He runs right at you when you enter an area. When he calls out he barely moves at all - attack! He has a huuuge tell for his strong side-charge attack - dodge or block. Paint ball him to find him again. Use this stuff! This is the strategic element and it's how you take down anything in the game.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

1) Playing through the game with the SnS exclusively is not recommended. Its damage output is poor if you don't match the proper element with the monster's weaknesses. Unfortunately, there are periods in the game where you won't have the right element SnS for a monster available to you. You can still beat monsters but it's going to take longer than it would with another weapon. If you do take this route, be sure to bring traps and tranqs since capturing a monster is faster than killing one.

2) There aren't that many weapon classes in Tri, especially if you compare it to P3rd or TriG. But the beauty of MH is that each class plays quite differently from one another. It's not a simple change of equipment. You can't change weapons in the middle of a quest because it would make it too easy to exploit the strengths of each class. Paralyze with bowgun, KO with hammer, then spam LS spirit combo? It's like you have the powers of an entire group of hunters!

3) If you're taking 43 minutes to beat the easiest monster in the game, it's a sign you have room to improve.

You're either using the wrong attacks (a legit complaint is the game never telling you which attacks are good/bad and leaves the player to experiment), getting hit too often, or playing way too conservatively. Or all of the above. Don't feel bad though; every new player struggles early in the game. Feel free to ask for tips if you're really stuck.

4) As for the controls, they aren't really a product of bad design if the game is built around them with their limitations in mind. I haven't played the older RE games but the different versions of RE4 illustrate this point well. The GC controls may be clunky compared to the Wii pointer controls but since the game was designed around those limitations, the Wii controls make the game easier than originally intended. Similarly, if MH allowed the player to do backflips after every attack and removed penalties from various actions, the game would be more accessible to new players but it would be way too easy for players past the beginner stage. The game is designed to test the player's efficiency of actions - sharpen at the wrong moment? Eat an attack. Drink a potion carelessly? Eat an attack. Get greedy trying to get an extra hit in instead of dodging? Eat an attack.

5) The game's slow pacing in the beginning (another legit complaint!) and the steep learning/adjustment curve mean you're not going to "get" the game within 15 hours of play IMO. I'd say play until the 2nd or 3rd boss monster - if it doesn't click for you by then, it might just not be the game for you.

LOL @ thinking you have the game figured out enough in 12 hours such that you KNOW the "chess like gameplay" was never intended and is just a byproduct of bad design though

Spoiler

hint, Tri isn't the first in the series and the core gameplay would've been fixed by now if it was really as big of an issue as you believe

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Jesus, people will stoop to such lows when something they like is being even slightly attacked.

All I'm saying is, the controls aren't fluid and intuitive and they make the game harder in a stupid way. The RE4 Little Green Yoda argument provided is just the right way to show how you people are compromising just so you won't have to admit something's bad about the game. Of course the game was easier on Wii... but the reason it was harder on GC was because of hardware limitations... ie. only one analog, no pointer etc... This game's controls are either a product of bad design or just hard on purpose. And I really don't know which of those is scarier... Oo

10 hours is more than enough to be able to understand how flawed the controls are. Any more than that and I'll probably stop noticing it... but that's because I worked my way around them, which isn't a good thing!

Hell, I've been checking out the reviews for this just to make sure I wasn't insane, and hey, guess what, controls are the most common complaint. Thank god for that, was beginning to think I was alone in this...

I'm not saying this game is bad, far from it. But the controls are flawed. You guys want to be all butthurt about it and deny it? Fine, I'm done here.

 

[Apenheul]

Jesus, people will stoop to such lows when something they like is being even slightly attacked.

Take a cool potion and read the reactions to your post, nobody's in denial or feels their game is being attacked. They're giving you very honest and helpful opinions but you just don't seem to be open for discussion.

 

[Emitan]

10 hours is more than enough to be able to understand how flawed the controls are.

You are playing a game that is about learning how to fight the game's bosses. You have fought one boss. You cannot judge the game in good faith.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Take a cool potion and read the reactions to your post, nobody's in denial or feels their game is being attacked. They're giving you very honest and helpful opinions but you just don't seem to be open for discussion.

There is no possible defense regarding the controls. They're not intuitive or well built in. And yet everybody's telling me that I don't understand the game and that alot of people have no problem with them. That's about all of what's being said here. There is no denying the controls should be improved, and yet they snap at me for even suggesting it, like I'm saying the game's horrible or something.

You are playing a game that is about learning how to fight the game's bosses. You have fought one boss. You cannot judge the game in good faith.

I am not judging the game. The game is fine (more than fine, actually). I am judging the controls. They're gonna be the same wether I'm at 100 hours or 3 hours. And they're not functional. For any single creature I've fought so far (just killed Barroth), the controls are not intuitive. They feel stiff and clunky. That's all there is to it. I am not trying to judge the game, I'm merely judging an aspect of it that's going to be the same from start to finish, and with 16 hours of playtime I think I can make a pretty informed decision on wether or not the controls are intuitive. If after all this time the controls still feel like a hindrance, then they are the opposite of intuitive. How can this even be at stake?

This reminds me of the Uncharted 3 fans who insisted there was nothing wrong with the aiming.

I'm not poo-pooing on the game at all, I'm just saying that this one aspect of it is very poorly implemented. And all I get are condescending answers telling me I don't "understand" the game, even though I clearly stated that deep down there is a game I love here. Why would I play a game I don't like for 16 hours? Of course I like the game... I just cannot the controls slide. They needed an improvement.

 

[Wazzim]

Uh-oh, criticizing MH's controls is a no-no man.

Maybe it's because we forced ourselves to get used to them after hundreds of hours but MH players hate it when you criticize the controls lol.

I find the controls good in Tri (especially compared to the older stuff). It has a lot of depth and they are really fun once you master them.

 

[Boney]

I honestly still don't understand what you're ranting about. What is exactly wrong with the way the game controls?

Dude, who uses a hammer to kill a great Jaggi?
Use double swords or long sword for that guy, don't forget to pack in some traps/tranqs and flash bombs too.

Tutorial

Uh there's no dual swords in Tri and you don't have the longsword available at this point in time. Besides, hammer rapes a GJ.

Plus the video you linked is uh how do I say this. Unimpressive to say the least.

 

[Wazzim]

Why on earth would the first boss (great jaggi) take me 43mins to kill with the second most powerful weapon available in the game so far (bone hammer+), whilst constantly hitting him?

Dude, who uses a hammer to kill a great Jaggi?
Use double swords or long sword for that guy, don't forget to pack in some traps/tranqs and flash bombs too.

Tutorial

 

[upandaway]

Dude, who uses a hammer to kill a great Jaggi?

Okay this thread is getting really weird now.

 

[Apenheul]

I think the game is just not for you or you have the wrong expectations, you might have noticed how everything is slow by design. It takes about 4 seconds to drink a potion and you can't walk while doing that, it takes more time than that to place a trap. Actions/animations rarely can be canceled once initiated and most the time you can't move anymore. These are not controls isues but rather design choices, they force you to think about the consequences of every action during battle. On the surface Monster Hunter may share some similarities with a series like Phantasy Star Online but the core experience is way different. In that sense it has more in common with say Punch-Out. The game revolves around memorizing monster attacking patterns and how weapons behave. An interesting thing about experienced players is that they generally don't use high defense armors because there is a point where you perfectly evade every monster attack and wait patiently until you can deal that perfect strike.

I hope this helps for you. You know, I had the same thoughts about the Metroid Prime series once because I bought the game thinking it was a first-person shooter. I thought the controls sucked for a FPS and then someone told me it's more like Zelda in terms of exploration and finding suit/weapon upgrades that allow me to visit areas that I couldn't reach before. After trying it again a couple of months later with that in mind it became my favorite franchise.

 

[Riposte]

There is no possible defense regarding the controls.

Are you really confused why people are hostile towards you? You are being ridiculous. Stop with the undeserved pompous attitude: "YOU CAN'T DENY I'M RIGHT!"

On top of that you are basically arguing from the position of someone is frustrated with his lack of skill in something to people who are not failing at the game or using its controls.

They're not intuitive or well built in.

This sentence is game journo-level garbage. It doesn't mean anything concrete. (For example one might say "unintuitive" in a positive light by saying "high-learning curve", with only the latter implying satisfaction. Clunky? "slow", "nuanced", "deliberate", etc are all more positive versions of practically the same thing. Game journo speak sucks.) I won't waste my time trying to extrapolate when it is clear to me there isn't much to gain from hearing someone rant/reflexively make excuses(blame the game) because they are struggling with a game.

And yet everybody's telling me that I don't understand the game and that alot of people have no problem with them. That's about all of what's being said here.

I broke down the combat (mainly the "attacking" part) to its fundamentals in an earlier post. It has to do with learning your hit boxes and the monsters' hit boxes and using strict timing and positioning to capitalize on them. If we were to look at it like a spectrum, the more "freedom" you give the player the less strictness required in this element of the game. For example it is basically a non-issue for game like Bayonetta which sits on the far side of the spectrum. As others have posted you seem to be approaching the game in a very wrong way.

I am not judging the game. The game is fine (more than fine, actually). I am judging the controls.

The controls ARE the game. How could this be any less true in an action game? On top of that you are clearly talking about being locked into animations and slow attacks, not how you literally control the character.

I think I can make a pretty informed decision on wether or not the controls are intuitive. If after all this time the controls still feel like a hindrance, then they are the opposite of intuitive. How can this even be at stake?

Not necessarily. Consider the possibility that you simply don't "get it" and it might take you much longer than others to get it. Seriously learn to doubt yourself a bit. Then maybe we can be on the same page, because I have no reason to not doubt you.

This reminds me of the Uncharted 3 fans who insisted there was nothing wrong with the aiming.

Aside from the actual issues being different, of course.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

All I'm saying is, the controls aren't fluid and intuitive and they make the game harder in a stupid way. The RE4 Little Green Yoda argument provided is just the right way to show how you people are compromising just so you won't have to admit something's bad about the game. Of course the game was easier on Wii... but the reason it was harder on GC was because of hardware limitations... ie. only one analog, no pointer etc... This game's controls are either a product of bad design or just hard on purpose. And I really don't know which of those is scarier... Oo

The "fluidity" part of the controls is a conscious design choice. Giving the player even more options will make the game way too easy to players who fought the monsters more than once. The only reason they feel clunky or slow to new players is because they haven't learned the right timings and windows of opportunities in order to kill a monster efficiently. The bulk of my replay value in this game is learning how to improve my play against various monsters. If my abilities/options during a quest were enhanced, I'd have been done with the game hundreds of hours ago and the grinding aspect of the game would have been incredibly dull.

You can argue that Capcom should introduce better ways to make the game difficult for seasoned players but it's easier said than done and at some point you're changing the fabric of the game. Part of the appeal of MH is that the games never hold your hand. It doesn't matter if you're using the best endgame equipment against an earlygame monster - if you don't know how to fight it, you're gonna get fucked up. Conversely, it's possible to defeat higher rank monsters in lower rank gear if your skill is up to snuff.

What part of the controls exactly are you claiming is unintuitive? The only trouble I had when starting out was accidentally pressing the item button when I wanted to draw my weapon but it didn't take long for me to adjust. Give the Wiimote/Nunchuk controls a try to see if they are for you. Some people swear by them and I believe it's the better control setup for the SnS.

 

[Ultratech]

Oh boy...

Anywho, the controls ARE purposeful. You can't instantly turn around in real life, nor can you really do that in this game too. The game is about learning how the monsters move and attack and using that knowledge to your advantage. It is very much like a chess game, trying to learn and predict your opponent's attacks and striking accordingly. Get too greedy and you'll get punished. Every MH game since the 1st has been about this.

This is especially true on Greatswords, where positioning is key to timing your big attacks. People are right in saying this isn't just a button-mash game. If you go in expecting that, you will lose and you will get pissed. Besides, if you think Tri is hard, I'd love to see your opinion on the games before that.

The lag time in using items is purposeful as well, since you are obviously very vulnerable while consuming stuff. You have to choose your moments so you know you won't get attacked.

 

[Wazzim]

Uh there's no dual swords in Tri and you don't have the longsword available at this point in time. Besides, hammer rapes a GJ.

Plus the video you linked is uh how do I say this. Unimpressive to say the least.

DS isn't in Tri?
*boots up game*
Yeah you only seem to have GS,SnS, hammer, lance and bowgun at that point.
Anyway, hammer isn't good for beginners so that's why I recommended those other weapons.

The video was to show that it shouldn't take 43 minutes, who cares if it's impressive or not.

 

[Mondriaan]

Oh boy...

Anywho, the controls ARE purposeful. You can't instantly turn around in real life, nor can you really do that in this game too. The game is about learning how the monsters move and attack and using that knowledge to your advantage. It is very much like a chess game, trying to learn and predict your opponent's attacks and striking accordingly. Get too greedy and you'll get punished. Every MH game since the 1st has been about this.

There are a number of things that the game could have done better. I'm not sure that locking a player into a fixed direction when in the middle of a combo is a good idea because turning off an important control for a long period of time will make controls feel clunky. It's a reason why cancels are so important in fighting games.

It also sucks to start laying down a trap and not be able to cancel as a boss flies away. If someone can interrupt you and save you your trap by kicking you, why can't you just press a button to cancel laying down a trap?

This is especially true on Greatswords, where positioning is key to timing your big attacks. People are right in saying this isn't just a button-mash game. If you go in expecting that, you will lose and you will get pissed. Besides, if you think Tri is hard, I'd love to see your opinion on the games before that.

The lag time in using items is purposeful as well, since you are obviously very vulnerable while consuming stuff. You have to choose your moments so you know you won't get attacked.

I think that there should be an option to use up an item and obtain only a partial effect by canceling out. Obviously it's better to use an item only when there's a big enough window, but it should be sufficient punishment not getting the full effect.

I doubt Capcom will do this because someone at Capcom really enjoys the idea of a hunter throwing a silly pose and then getting trampled by a charging boss; I guess that kind of humor separates Japanese games from western games.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

It also sucks to start laying down a trap and not be able to cancel as a boss flies away. If someone can interrupt you and save you your trap by kicking you, why can't you just press a button to cancel laying down a trap?

Or the player can learn/use one of the various ways to not waste traps? The possibility of wasting traps is a deterrent to indiscriminate trap spamming, similar to how the the flexing animation discourages potion chugging. Or we could introduce regenerating health so that players don't have to learn when to use potions or have to worry about running out!

Kicking somebody to interrupt a trap is just an extension of teammate disruption - I doubt it was included for the sole purpose of saving traps for teammates. I actually hate it when I'm trying to lay a trap underneath a paralyzed monster but I can't because some guy is spamming his LS combo everywhere.

 

[Riposte]

There are a number of things that the game could have done better. I'm not sure that locking a player into a fixed direction when in the middle of a combo is a good idea because turning off an important control for a long period of time will make controls feel clunky. It's a reason why cancels are so important in fighting games.

What exactly do you mean by cancels being important in fighting games? Being able to cancel punishable moves to save yourself usually has a cost, because that would be extremely overpowered otherwise. Not really applicable to what we are talking about. (Canceling is more commonly used in fighting games as a way to increase damage.)

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Lol, this is going nowhere.


I'm now at a point in the game where I've already been completely sucked into this world, went online for the first time a few hours ago and yes, I'm loving this game.
But I stick by my opinion regarding the controls. High learning curve my ass... the controls suck, that's it. I'm with the reviewers on this one, sorry boys.

Also, lol @ "you're just frustrated by your lack of skill". I'm not having a hard time at all. I've gotten pretty much used to the controls and the combat patterns, and it's pretty much an easy ride for now. The only reason I took that long to kill the great jaggi turned out to be the fact that the spin attack isn't poweful at all. I was using it on most openings because someone told me it was the most powerfull hammer attack, but I can pretty much see now how relatively useless it is. When I got around to the GJ capture mission I bagged him in under 5 mins.
There's nothing to "get" here.Once you get used to the way the controls work things start falling into place and you start getting good at it. But that's nothing more than working your way around the game's flaws. Any game with bad controls there has ever been becomes easy once you learn to work you way around them. That's not agood thing. At all. That's the most pathetic excuse for creating a challenge I've ever seen if it indeed was implemented on purpose.

And I don't think I'm approaching the game in a wrong way at all. I need only take a look at Demon's Souls: same basic overall concept, same strategic combat type with a high risk factor... the difference is, one is legitimately hard and challenging... MH's difficulty resides more in it's flawed controls than it does in the actual challenge. And hey, Demon's Souls is actually older than MHT. It'd be wrong of me to expect God of War, but expecting a functional and responsive input system isn't a luxury.

But hey, I better shut up about it, this is like discussing with a religious congregation, you boys have made your minds up and that's it.
The only question I have is why would it be such a common complaint if there was nothing behind it? All the reviews I've read clearly point this issue out, and most of the reviewers seem to have invested over 100 hours in the game... You boys need to be a bit more impartial. It's ok to admit the bad parts too.

Also, what's the problem with killing a GJ with a hammer? It works fine. I'm liking mah hammer. Intend on hammerin' my way through the whole game, if possible... It's not ideal but it seems to be the best fit for me. Though I am liking the look of the longsword... Hmm.

 

[Emitan]

Also, what's the problem with killing a GJ with a hammer? It works fine. I'm liking mah hammer. Intend on hammerin' my way through the whole game, if possible... It's not ideal but it seems to be the best fit for me.

Well at least we can agree on something

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Quick question, don't have wii speak, can I hook up a usb keyboard to the wii? As in, will I be able to type in it?

 

[Emitan]

Quick question, don't have wii speak, can I hook up a usb keyboard to the wii? As in, will I be able to type in it?

Yes