Iced Arcade
Member
That Xbox money isn't looking too bad now huh
Moon Studios (Ori devs, No Rest For the Wicked devs) are in trouble
- Thread starter drotahorror
- Start date
Embearded
Member
Or they could have prioritized the ps5 version, on the platform people actually buy games...Should've stayed with that Xbox partnership.
It's in my wishlist for a year i think.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.Should've stayed with that Xbox partnership.
But you know studios. They always want to break away and be their own thing. Might be a giant success or they're left to rot on their own.
Reminds of when a competitor sold one of their big brands to some holding company or whatever and it became their own company. And soon after that new company poached some coworkers to work there. They probably poached competing employees from other companies too. And the people were excited to be working at a new company calling the shots on that brand.
Bad move. The new company tanked, market share tanked, and they left the company a few years later.
Well look at that. Not so easy to now be your own company and brand WITHOUT support under a giant corporate umbrella where the old company would do high level partnership deals across brands making it easy to lock in shelf space, new products and rates.
My company easily zoomed past their market share after a few years! lol
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I mean maybe they've tried already, but this is where they should really push to get Ori out on PS4 and PS5.
Maybe they tried in the past before Microsoft's multiplatform policy, but could try again for a quick port. Maybe that bridge is burned, I don't know.
How did that work out for Tango?
Maybe they tried in the past before Microsoft's multiplatform policy, but could try again for a quick port. Maybe that bridge is burned, I don't know.
Should've stayed with that Xbox partnership.
How did that work out for Tango?
Heaven Angel
Member
I usually don't buy early access game but I'll get this one just to support these developers, they have talent.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah, tough situation for them, they got the publishing rights just 2 months ago after the whole Private Division sale.
Moon Studios becomes 'fully independent' after securing No Rest for the Wicked's publishing rights
The company now hopes to develop the action-RPG 'without restrictions.'
naguanatak
Member
Playing on console. Had a Steam Deck briefly, but it's too much trouble shooting nowadays with a 1 1/2 year old and another one due October.
Never really bothered with early access titles but I would have bought nrftw. So...I guess I have to hope they make it to the finish line and then buy it on console. Ori games were brilliant
Cyberpunkd
Member
Would you like a game that clearly says it is in EA or a "finished" game that released but everyone can see it needed more time?
Bought EA Day One, played a few hours over a couple days and didn't play again.
Yes I would be interested in playing it again someday, but... Ya know... My backlog is just so big and... The character designs are almost literally the worst ever. Which is so damn shocking and disappointing coming from Ori, despite the gameplay change
Yes I would be interested in playing it again someday, but... Ya know... My backlog is just so big and... The character designs are almost literally the worst ever. Which is so damn shocking and disappointing coming from Ori, despite the gameplay change
Cyberpunkd
Member
So Steam Deck is too much trouble with your kid, but sitting your ass and booting a console and TV isn't?
naguanatak
Member
I get up at 2am so that I can either go to the gym or play games before work depending on the day, which means I have about 10 hours per week to game. We don't use screens infront of our daughter for the first couple of years, so I have to carve out alone time.So Steam Deck is too much trouble with your kid, but sitting your ass and booting a console and TV isn't?
If I have to sacrifice 2 or 3 of that time budget for trouble shooting like it was when I had it, that's not a deal I want to make.
Sitting down, booting the console and playing without hassle is what I require nowadays, so yes to your question, it isn't.
geary
Member
This guy throw subtle shots at PoE2 devs when they release patch 0.2 and got bad review. He something in the lines that this happens when the devs are stubborn and dont listen to the community and we should check their game. Also, throws shots on other games/devs on his twitter from time to time. Well, the turn tables…he reaps whe he sow…He thought he's better than everyone else…
He even insunuate something negative of BG3 at some point…Get down of your high horse
He even insunuate something negative of BG3 at some point…Get down of your high horse
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Cyberpunkd
Member
I don't know what to tell you if you think SD needs troubleshooting or if there is any sort of hassle required. As in Windows 99% of troubleshooting is "copy this, paste here".
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
It required online to play single player?
Yeah, I feel less sorry for these developers.
At least they had the decency to remove that garbage.
Yeah, I feel less sorry for these developers.
At least they had the decency to remove that garbage.
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naguanatak
Member
I don't think... I had it and it was time wasted for me. On some days I have 30 mins to game, if I have to spend 10 mins of that with anything other than playing it's not worth it for me. The days I used a computer daily and am proficient enough to easily trouble shoot are long gone, as in at least a decade.
If it's easy for you, nice... The Steam Deck is an awesome device, loved the haptics, the custom OS and the feeling of power compared to the Switch, but again...for me personally, it doesn't fit into my schedule/lifestyle, no matter how much you seem to not be able to understand that there are different experiences for different people
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Great.
If Zenimax didnt step in in 2010 to bail them out they would had been gone long time ago. Then MS bought out Bethesda and Tango still survived more years and more games released.
Big corporate money can always bail out companies or departments. All depends on how long they feel like doing it for as money and strategy arent forever.
Tango Gameworks - Wikipedia
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JimmyRustler
Member
I had a discussion on YT the other day about Clair Obscure anf independent game development. That's exactly it. Moon Studios made two very successful games, now they have a lukewarm one and already they are at risk of closure? No wonder there are so few independent studios.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
He badmouthed POE2 and BG3? I dont follow this guy. But for a studio that has made Ori and No Rest... I find it hilarious someone in that position would criticize any fellow game dev. The guy's studio is crumbling supposedly based on bad steam reviews in the past week and the guy acts like his company makes the highest quality games on earth.
That's video game people for ya.
Think of all the big companies out there in other industries. How often do you ever see employees on social media ragging on other companies? At most you get some cheeky tv ads like coke vs pepsi back in the day, or apple vs pc kind of ads. They are typically done in a fun way or in a business-like comparison like car X has features car Y doesnt.
But you dont get criticism or potshots done at a personal level in terms of integrity. Childish social media mudslinging in the business world is frowned on as poor taste.
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Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
Moon studios isn't a Microsoft subsidy, they can do whatever they want with the money and that includes staying in business or shuttering the doors.
The fact is the Microsoft money would have made this game viable and funded their next title. I made this exact point of when people complain about what do the developers get out of gamepass? Security. Security to keep the lights on regardless if the game bombs or not.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
This kind of attitude is precisely why I've never liked this guy. He needs to stop with the entitlement and get back to the drawing board if he wants to make this work; begging for positive reviews isn't just the easy way out, it's pathetic.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup. And any company doing a PS or MS partnership would surely have the console maker handle any costly or pain in the ass marketing, admin and whatever else the legions of headquarters staff will handle.
It's kind of like the stock market and investing. If someone has $10,000, they can park it in a boring high interest savings paying 3%, or you roll the dice on your own buying stocks. Well, if you do the latter you control your own destiny and got the whole range from fucking up and losing it all to hitting the jackpot buying Nvidia stock 10 years ago and turning it into a million dollars. The first guy wont make much money at all, but it's a guaranteed pay out and wont be going broke.
Some people are just better suited to those boring guaranteed funds. While others can handle the extremes and got money to float any bad situations.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
They should go back to MS, ask for some gamepass money (pc only for now), ask for Ori ports to PS4-5.
Though ports might require effort and time and not an easy solution.
I get it, he doesn't want players to review bomb it and it might be unfair, but that happens a lot these days. Should have prepared for such situations.
Though ports might require effort and time and not an easy solution.
I get it, he doesn't want players to review bomb it and it might be unfair, but that happens a lot these days. Should have prepared for such situations.
Fess
Member
Yeah the name is crap. I understand that it's some kind of biblical quote but anyone not native on English or interested in religion won't remember it. To me it means nothing, it's just too many words. Should've called it Wicked or Restless or Wick or whatever else that isn't a full sentence.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's natural for a small company to want to break away from a corporate partnership. They want to control their own fate and reap the rewards if it's successful. Make sense.
I see it as no different than renting vs owning a house.
Renting is cheaper, less hassles, the landlord handles fixing everything and paying the mortgage/taxes. Problem is you arent really getting anything out of it. If you dont have a lot of money to float buying or dont want responsibilities you rent.
Owning costs more and has way more responsibilities. But the benefit is you own it and if property values rise, that's asset value in your pocket. Drawback is you can lose the house if you cant keep up finances.
Fess
Member
Microsoft already own the Ori rights. They just don't have a studio capable of doing anything with the IP.Xbox waiting to buy back the Ori rights at a massive discount?
The whole things sucks tbh. Both Ori are among the all time greats for me.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Not disagreeing with this.
Which is why suggested for gamepass deal which will keep them independent.
That is, if they really need some help.
xrnzaaas
Member
What was the reason for the split with Microsoft? They should join forces again to make Ori 3 and they'll have financial backing. Plus with Microsoft's new approach to publishing games they could release Ori 1-2 (and 3) on PS5.
No Rest seems like a cool game, but it's also a series of bad decisions and keeping it in early access (and only on PC) for so long while trying different gameplay mechanics wasn't the greatest idea.
No Rest seems like a cool game, but it's also a series of bad decisions and keeping it in early access (and only on PC) for so long while trying different gameplay mechanics wasn't the greatest idea.
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Duchess
Member
Yeah, sure looks that way, mate.
Dark Souls would’ve been a better game in early access, says dev behind Dark Souls-like early access game No Rest For The Wicked
Head of Ori and the Blind Forest studio says there’s “just no way” they could’ve shipped the game without player feedback.
www.rockpapershotgun.com
FeralEcho
Member
The reviews of this game seem so unfair.
I honestly only recently found out about the game being made by Moon Studios and it looks absolutely incredible.
I've heard about the name before but always saw it had mediocre reviews so never gave it the time of day. Then I saw that the bad reviews are related to the initial performance of the game and high difficulty which by that notion you'd think Dark Souls would be some of the worst reviewed products in gaming right since it also had bad performance and high difficulty? Except they are not and instead are regarded as a genre in of themselves. It just feels like the people that bought NRFTW are an entirely different demographic to the one it clearly catters to.
Should the game be punished because of your own erroneus expectations of it? That's clearly the reality of the majority of player reviews on PC. A bunch of whinny babies who already start writting their review an hour into the game without allowing the time needed for an objective look on it.
Seems like Moon's last hope right now is to release on console and... can't believe I say this but also maybe try a gamepass deal to get an infusion of cash.
I honestly only recently found out about the game being made by Moon Studios and it looks absolutely incredible.
I've heard about the name before but always saw it had mediocre reviews so never gave it the time of day. Then I saw that the bad reviews are related to the initial performance of the game and high difficulty which by that notion you'd think Dark Souls would be some of the worst reviewed products in gaming right since it also had bad performance and high difficulty? Except they are not and instead are regarded as a genre in of themselves. It just feels like the people that bought NRFTW are an entirely different demographic to the one it clearly catters to.
Should the game be punished because of your own erroneus expectations of it? That's clearly the reality of the majority of player reviews on PC. A bunch of whinny babies who already start writting their review an hour into the game without allowing the time needed for an objective look on it.
Seems like Moon's last hope right now is to release on console and... can't believe I say this but also maybe try a gamepass deal to get an infusion of cash.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I'd never buy an early access game. Dont care if it's cheaper or if first adopters get free bonus content.
When I spend my money, I want a finished product. Not something half done being a QA tester who is paying money to test it, vs being paid to test it. And to ensure I get an even better product, I'll wait for deals and patches. There's only a handful of games I'll get day one as I know what to expect (Diablo 2 Resurrected).
Baemono
Member
I had a similar experience once, I had 30 minutes of free time, booted my Steam Deck, it asked for an update, so I did, and then the game I wanted to play also needed an update, so I choose anoter one, and this one needed my launcher credentials (despite always ticking the « keep me log on ») + 2FA, then the game boots but it took me 20min to do that so at the end I didn't play anything.I don't think... I had it and it was time wasted for me. On some days I have 30 mins to game, if I have to spend 10 mins of that with anything other than playing it's not worth it for me. The days I used a computer daily and am proficient enough to easily trouble shoot are long gone, as in at least a decade.
If it's easy for you, nice... The Steam Deck is an awesome device, loved the haptics, the custom OS and the feeling of power compared to the Switch, but again...for me personally, it doesn't fit into my schedule/lifestyle, no matter how much you seem to not be able to understand that there are different experiences for different people
I sold it last week eventually, after 2 years
geary
Member
This is one of the tweet. He wanted to be snarky...and make it as a joke. Who the fuck would call PoE2 "wicked-like". He has multiple tweets like this. Now he got the same negative reviews as PoE2 0.2 patch and he's crying about it.
PoE2/Diablo4 have old mechanics and we are the new best/modern thing. Come on...
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You could add that MS usually gives studios that they decide to close the opportunity to continue existing as independents or find another publisher, which is rare in the industry. Tango itself benefited from this.
In the case of Moon Studios, I think its founder exaggerated ego and confidence in himself and his new project have caused the situation. He thought it would be the commercial and critical success that Ori was, but he didn't consider the difficulties that can be encountered during game development today and the importance of having funding from a strong partner.
The decision to launch Early Access to generate revenue early was also a bad idea. And so was this type of announcement/declaration, which almost had the opposite effect.
I hope the situation is resolved; NRFTW is on my wish list for when it's a final game.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Similar to companies aiming to be the next Fortnite or COD, the guy definitely has his sights on No Rest being the next Diablo/POE. lol
If he kept his second tweet a lot shorter instead of bashing the other games as mindless button mashers over and over again, it wouldnt be so bad. But you can tell they guy is trying to badmouth them.
xrnzaaas
Member
Not necessarily. It's hard to reach NEW players with a game that's in EA for more than a year and gets mixed reviews from the last 30 days. Not everyone's going to check out why and if the negative reviews are legit, instead they may skip to get something else.
That's largely on Moon Studios and trying different ideas as part of early access, with some of them not getting the expected positive feedback from the players.
TexMex
Member
MS owns Ori. Ori on PS5 is entirely up to Xbox.
Though Thomas was interviewed on Sacred Symbols recently, and wink wink low key confirmed that Ori is headed to PlayStation, he just couldn't talk about it.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont know how persuasive Steam's overall ratings are for the general masses, but it works on me. I've never bought a game getting Mixed reviews or worse, except one which was a card game I wanted to play solo against AI. Great game with friends and fam, but you can only do that so often at get togethers. I knew what to expect reading reviews where most bad points were gamers ragging on the mobile UI and online play was sketchy. I could live with both.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Kickstarter?
NRFTW has been in early access for, checks Steam Wishlist added date. APRIL 2024!
This isn't Kickstarter.
NRFTW has been in early access for, checks Steam Wishlist added date. APRIL 2024!
This isn't Kickstarter.
Fess
Member
There are rumors about Microsoft cutting the ties because of a toxic workplace environment going 3-4 years back, but here are words from Thomas Mahler, they deliberately walked away because they wanted to release the game on all platforms:
The whole thing is sad to be honest. They had so much enthusiasm at first. Now it's just darkness.
I hope they bounce back somehow but they really need to get a feature complete 1.0 version out. And on consoles. And Switch 2!
Can't stay fully independent iterating on new features for years without someone holding a wallet.
Apparently Thomas Mahler is sitting on ideas for another Ori game, so if things truly go south maybe they can go back to Microsoft now that they're doing multiplat publishing. If I was MS I would be on their doorstep right now. MS won't find another developer that can do anything with the Ori IP. If Moon goes down then Ori does that as well.
Goalus
Member
Maybe shouldn't have released it on Steam, a place known for its fickle crowd that usually behave like whiny little brats.
I would like to know the exact circumstances of their departure from Microsoft, was it mainly driven by MS (because they couldn't tolerate some comments that the studio head made in private conversations - which would have been asinine on MS's side) or was it driven by Moon because they did not want to be tied to one platform (I think that definitely played a role).
I still have a lot of respect for CliffyB for creating my favorite game, but his behavior towards Xbox after leaving Epic Games isn't something that I am particularly fond of, and I am unsure if this might be a similar situation. I bought both Ori games on Xbox (Ori 2 twice even, both digitally and physically), and Wicked looks stellar, but I can't buy it because it is not on Xbox even though Xbox has Game Preview, which is their early access label.
I would be more than willing to support Moon by buying their game even though I NEVER buy early access games (I would make an exception here) - IF IT WAS AVAILABLE ON XBOX GAME PREVIEW -, but I am wondering what they think of Xbox today. I will say that I didn't feel sorry when CliffyB had to close his studio after he turned his back on Xbox.
I would like to know the exact circumstances of their departure from Microsoft, was it mainly driven by MS (because they couldn't tolerate some comments that the studio head made in private conversations - which would have been asinine on MS's side) or was it driven by Moon because they did not want to be tied to one platform (I think that definitely played a role).
I still have a lot of respect for CliffyB for creating my favorite game, but his behavior towards Xbox after leaving Epic Games isn't something that I am particularly fond of, and I am unsure if this might be a similar situation. I bought both Ori games on Xbox (Ori 2 twice even, both digitally and physically), and Wicked looks stellar, but I can't buy it because it is not on Xbox even though Xbox has Game Preview, which is their early access label.
I would be more than willing to support Moon by buying their game even though I NEVER buy early access games (I would make an exception here) - IF IT WAS AVAILABLE ON XBOX GAME PREVIEW -, but I am wondering what they think of Xbox today. I will say that I didn't feel sorry when CliffyB had to close his studio after he turned his back on Xbox.
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