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[Physiognomonics]

I just can't see split ram (main, vram) happening on PS6. I am pretty sure PS3 split ram gave a generation of developers nightmares, including at Naughty dog. It also much more inefficient overall compared to unified ram. There are few advantages with split ram obviously but it's not enough.

Also what they are doing on PS5 Pro (giving about 2GB of slow ram to slow OS tasks) is not split ram. Developers have a unified memory pool of 13.7GB of very fast ram for their games. There are too many advantages with such unified pool for them.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So people are mad at him because he was tricked by people intentionally trying to ruin his credibility?



If you don't see who is actually the dishonest people in this situation I don't know what to tell you

If you get tricked by someone trying to ruin your credibility that's on you, get it verified before leaking something

The very essence of having shitty credibility

 

[onQ123]

If you get tricked by someone trying to ruin your credibility that's on you, get it verified before leaking something

The very essence of having shitty credibility

If trusted sources was in on it it's understandable.

Piss off the wrong people you're be surprised how far they will go to make you look like a fool.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If you get tricked by someone trying to ruin your credibility that's on you, get it verified before leaking something

The very essence of having shitty credibility

Imagine pretending like the nature of leaks isn't going to have misses.

We used to get leaks left and right but they're few and far between these days.

Anyone who has legitimate information should be praised. They're taking pretty big risks to give us a little bit more transparency.

Will they always be right? No, and that's fine too.

 

[Bojji]

Imagine pretending like the nature of leaks isn't going to have misses.

We used to get leaks left and right but they're few and far between these days.

Anyone who has legitimate information should be praised. They're taking pretty big risks to give us a little bit more transparency.

Will they always be right? No, and that's fine too.

People like Kepler get 70%+ of leaks right while he gets 70%+ of leaks wrong. That's way above some "misses".

He gets money from his youtube videos so he creates many of them, he doesn't deserve any praise for posting unverified bullshit...

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Split ram??

 

[dgrdsv]

I just can't see split ram (main, vram) happening on PS6. I am pretty sure PS3 split ram gave a generation of developers nightmares, including at Naughty dog. It also much more inefficient overall compared to unified ram. There are few advantages with split ram obviously but it's not enough.

Also what they are doing on PS5 Pro (giving about 2GB of slow ram to slow OS tasks) is not split ram. Developers have a unified memory pool of 13.7GB of very fast ram for their games. There are too many advantages with such unified pool for them.

It doesn't have to be physically split (this doesn't make any sense for a one chip APU based system) but it can be asymmetrical akin to Xbox Series. There are obvious down- and upsides to this, Sony has been avoiding it thus far because of the former but considering all the issues with prices we have now I can see them changing that stance and doing an asymmetrical memory system for PS6.

However what makes no sense at all is the proposed split of 40GBs into 16 fast and 24 slow. This could be done with a mix of 2 and 3 GB chips (there's nothing else for G7 now, it's possible that 4, 6 or 8 GB modules would appear in the future) but it makes no sense to have this much slow memory for gaming. Games generally use a lot less "system" memory than video memory - which is why you see 8/2 and 10/6 splits on XSS and XSX. So if we're looking at this from cost efficiency point of view you would expect a similar pattern here - 24/16 maybe but even this seems excessive for "slow" RAM partition.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People like Kepler get 70%+ of leaks right while he gets 70%+ of leaks wrong. That's way above some "misses".

He gets money from his youtube videos so he creates many of them, he doesn't deserve any praise for posting unverified bullshit...

100%

 

[Physiognomonics]

It doesn't have to be physically split (this doesn't make any sense for a one chip APU based system) but it can be asymmetrical akin to Xbox Series. There are obvious down- and upsides to this, Sony has been avoiding it thus far because of the former but considering all the issues with prices we have now I can see them changing that stance and doing an asymmetrical memory system for PS6.

However what makes no sense at all is the proposed split of 40GBs into 16 fast and 24 slow. This could be done with a mix of 2 and 3 GB chips (there's nothing else for G7 now, it's possible that 4, 6 or 8 GB modules would appear in the future) but it makes no sense to have this much slow memory for gaming. Games generally use a lot less "system" memory than video memory - which is why you see 8/2 and 10/6 splits on XSS and XSX. So if we're looking at this from cost efficiency point of view you would expect a similar pattern here - 24/16 maybe but even this seems excessive for "slow" RAM partition.

It won't happen either again. We have seen that this method is actually slowing the overall bandwidth so you never get to reach the max bandwidth of the faster ram. Devs have only praises for PS5 memory system. But we have seen plenty of complaints since the start of the gen on XSS and XSX memory architecture. It makes game development more complicated. We know the XSS doesn't have enough ram but we have also heard complaints about lack of fast video memory, even on XSX, in some UE5 games. If the game requires more than 10GB of fast memory, then it's a problem in some UE5 games. Some devs have talked about this particular problem on Reddit or elsewhere.

A truely unifed memory pool as seen on PS4 and PS5 is just too convenient for developers with very few downsides even in the worst case. And we know Cerny is going to chose developement convenience first in his decisions about the machines he designs.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Split ram??

Yeah, we went through this with the same stupid fake ass last gen (this gen) rumors, and it never happened.

And it won't happen for the PS6 either. There are many reasons why.

One main one, backwards compatibility with less virtualization wrapper headaches.
Another, way more bang for your buck. Especially when it more than likely will be utilizing GDDR7.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It won't happen either again. We have seen that this method is actually slowing the overall bandwidth so you never get to reach the max bandwidth of the faster ram. Devs have only praises for PS5 memory system. But we have seen plenty of complaints since the start of the gen on XSS and XSX memory architecture. It makes game development more complicated. We know the XSS doesn't have enough ram but we have also heard complaints about lack of fast video memory, even on XSX, in some UE5 games. If the game requires more than 10GB of fast memory, then it's a problem in some UE5 games. Some devs have talked about this particular problem on Reddit or elsewhere.

A truely unifed memory pool as seen on PS4 and PS5 is just too convenient for developers with very few downsides even in the worst case. And we know Cerny is going to chose developement convenience first in his decisions about the machines he designs.

When Cerny announced the PS4 (yes 4) he said that the number one fix that developers requested was a unified memory. Of course the Xbox 360 and PS3 were so memory starved that it might not be as relevant as it used to be.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

100%

70% wrong is a stretch. Id say Kepler is about 90% correct and MLiD is about 70% correct.

not to mention plans change. What was true one day isn't always true the next.

I have full trust in MLiD, but if he gets something wrong its not like it ruins my life.

He isn't like the Xbox community that deliberately (or naively) spreads FUD.

Honestly, I would hate Xbox so much less if they had not made part of their marketting to use influencers to spread FUD, but that's part of their culture.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

70% wrong is a stretch. Id say Kepler is about 90% correct and MLiD is about 70% correct.

not to mention plans change. What was true one day isn't always true the next.

I have full trust in MLiD, but if he gets something wrong its not like it ruins my life.

He isn't like the Xbox community that deliberately (or naively) spreads FUD.

Honestly, I would hate Xbox so much less if they had not made part of their marketting to use influencers to spread FUD, but that's part of their culture.

Maybe but take for example Leaks and Rumors on Reddit this is where he ranks for 2024 and I am onboard with this placement

Tier 5 - Pretty Much Clickbait

This tier is for leakers who are almost never correct and potentially just make things up. Anything they claim should be taken with a grain of salt.

[th]

Pretty Much Clickbait Sources​

[/th]​

[td]

Moore's Law is Dead (MLiD)​

[/td]​

[td]

Nintendo Prime​

[/td]​

[td]

Universio Nintendo/Necrolipe​

[/td]​

 

[onQ123]

Yeah, we went through this with the same stupid fake ass last gen (this gen) rumors, and it never happened.

And it won't happen for the PS6 either. There are many reasons why.

One main one, backwards compatibility with less virtualization wrapper headaches.
Another, way more bang for your buck. Especially when it more than likely will be utilizing GDDR7.

I can think of a really good reason for split RAM next gen actually 3 , AI work better with large amounts of data, Price of GDDR haven't gone down enough & the 3rd is PS5 basically already has split RAM with the way the memory subsystem moves data from the SSD So it wouldn't be too outlandish for them to have something faster than the SSD but cheaper than GDDR in the mix.

 

[Loxus]

So people are mad at him because he was tricked by people intentionally trying to ruin his credibility?



If you don't see who is actually the dishonest people in this situation I don't know what to tell you

Those guys that tricked him was mad af that he got the PS5 Pro documents.

 

[Bartski]

just listening about it warms my face

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yes, he does take a very pro-AMD tone and his most recent episode was a bit baffling. I agree with much of what he said about AMD being more stable right now, but the 5070 Ti does perform better than the 9070 XT and if they both cost the same, the 5070 TI is a better choice since it seems that the driver issues have been mostly ironed out.

At least they have on my end.

I agree with everything you say but I'd personally buy the 9070XT to support AMD, send a message to nvidia and get a great card.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I can think of a really good reason for split RAM next gen actually 3 , AI work better with large amounts of data, Price of GDDR haven't gone down enough & the 3rd is PS5 basically already has split RAM with the way the memory subsystem moves data from the SSD So it wouldn't be too outlandish for them to have something faster than the SSD but cheaper than GDDR in the mix.

That's not really "split RAM" for CPU/GPU. That's to assist the onboard controller. I expect that to be the case in the PS6 along with stacked cache for AI, etc..

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I agree with everything you say but I'd personally buy the 9070XT to support AMD, send a message to nvidia and get a great card.

I was right there with you. I loved my 9070XT, but not being able to use HDMI 2.1 in Bazzite/SteamOS forced me to go back to Windows and once my local MC got 5070 Tis at $799 and I returned my $750 9070XT, it just made more sense to use the 5070 Ti. DLSS support being greater than FSR4 was another factor.

At this point I am waiting for two things to happen and sadly I dont think either will.

1. nvidia drastically improves Linux support so I can run SteamOS/Bazzite. Performance right now is about a tier below what it should be (basically a 5070 Ti will get 5070 performance in Linux)
2. AMD and the HDMI Forum can work out their issues so I can use full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 in SteamOS.
3. TV makers start adding displayport, making issue 2 a moot point

I feel like option 1 is the most likely.

If Option 2 does happen, I will put my 5070 Ti up for trade and go back to a 9070XT in a heartbeat.

 

[dgrdsv]

It won't happen either again. We have seen that this method is actually slowing the overall bandwidth so you never get to reach the max bandwidth of the faster ram. Devs have only praises for PS5 memory system. But we have seen plenty of complaints since the start of the gen on XSS and XSX memory architecture. It makes game development more complicated. We know the XSS doesn't have enough ram but we have also heard complaints about lack of fast video memory, even on XSX, in some UE5 games. If the game requires more than 10GB of fast memory, then it's a problem in some UE5 games. Some devs have talked about this particular problem on Reddit or elsewhere.

A truely unifed memory pool as seen on PS4 and PS5 is just too convenient for developers with very few downsides even in the worst case. And we know Cerny is going to chose developement convenience first in his decisions about the machines he designs.

Honestly? We're past the point up to which developers got whatever they wanted because now that costs money to both the platform owners and console gamers. Systems will become more complex in an effort to provide the best perf/price from now on, and developers will have to adjust and learn. Their views on how the h/w should evolve would destroy the whole industry if they would be followed blindly.

 

[Bigfroth]

The PS6 should sell decently. It should be practically sentient. lol

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The PS6 should sell decently. It should be practically sentient. lol

A lot of potential advantages for the PS6 that are pretty unique to it.

• PS5 could sell 150+ million units
• PS6 could have not only a handheld version but a budget version using the handheld SOC
• Will probably not have a direct console competitor

 

[DenchDeckard]

I was right there with you. I loved my 9070XT, but not being able to use HDMI 2.1 in Bazzite/SteamOS forced me to go back to Windows and once my local MC got 5070 Tis at $799 and I returned my $750 9070XT, it just made more sense to use the 5070 Ti. DLSS support being greater than FSR4 was another factor.

At this point I am waiting for two things to happen and sadly I dont think either will.

1. nvidia drastically improves Linux support so I can run SteamOS/Bazzite. Performance right now is about a tier below what it should be (basically a 5070 Ti will get 5070 performance in Linux)
2. AMD and the HDMI Forum can work out their issues so I can use full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 in SteamOS.
3. TV makers start adding displayport, making issue 2 a moot point

I feel like option 1 is the most likely.

If Option 2 does happen, I will put my 5070 Ti up for trade and go back to a 9070XT in a heartbeat.

Yeah. I've always had nvidia cards so i totally get it for your scenario. I just want to support Amd for that card so I'm seriously contemplating getting one.

 

[AFBT88]

This guy is clown.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Agreed, it's quite interesting.

I wonder if PSAA is the future of a lot of games that will be enhanced for PS6 and PSAA would work for everyone whereas VRR is still on select displays. PSAA would give people a better result than unlocked framerates if you don't have a VRR display.

It would be awesome if Cerny gave like monthly or quarterly updates on PSSR. What they're learning from developers and from telemetry data on gamers and how that is influencing their roadmap and their priorities.

Also I wish they would address one of my major concerns, which is older games running older versions of PSSR getting updated. Also would love to hear more from developers as to the process involved in getting PSSR integrated into their games and I wonder if that decision is going to be made more easily with more advanced versions. We recently heard from ubisoft who now believe that PSSR is a better solution than TAA in all regards.

It'll be interesting to see if games like FF16, Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk eventually get PSSR and even games like FF7 Intergrade.

I was disappointed to see that I didn't notice much of a boost for Returnal getting a PS5 Pro patch, but again, maybe it's because they didn't go as far as they needed to with the patch with a lot having expected PC like RT features.

Don't you see though like with Returnal them not doing much to improve the visuals that it's the same case with 90% of games on Pro? That has been the norm

 

[PaintTinJr]

I can think of a really good reason for split RAM next gen actually 3 , AI work better with large amounts of data, Price of GDDR haven't gone down enough & the 3rd is PS5 basically already has split RAM with the way the memory subsystem moves data from the SSD So it wouldn't be too outlandish for them to have something faster than the SSD but cheaper than GDDR in the mix.

Mark's technical breakdown of the PS5 Pro and PSSR was very specific about the AI of PSSR, and no it doesn't use a lot of data, the U-net neural net - which is like a Jpeg 2000 set of layers - uses just 128MBs of data. So splitting from unified RAM to RAM and VRAM would just thrash the north bridge with the loss of dereferencing requiring data copies on the data bus that is already struggling to scale its bandwidth each gen.

I don't understand what you are saying about the PS5 IO Complex being split RAM. It is the lowest tier of a hierarchical memory/storage pyramid but that has nothing to do with splitting memory, so even that isn't a reason.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

What was Cerny thinking designing the Pro/pssr in a way that new updates to pssr couldn't be pushed out like DLSS? Now we're stuck with the initial pssr implementations which are not great in many games still. It's so frustrating to feel like Sony isn't trying to do all they can to insure we're taken care of as buyers of this thing.

People who bought an Nvidia gpu were taken care of. Sony allowing devs to gain certification for low effort patches like Doom, Oblivion, etc is also an example of this!

 

[PaintTinJr]

What was Cerny thinking designing the Pro/pssr in a way that new updates to pssr couldn't be pushed out like DLSS? Now we're stuck with the initial pssr implementations which are not great in many games still. It's so frustrating to feel like Sony isn't trying to do all they can to insure we're taken care of as buyers of this thing.

People who bought an Nvidia gpu were taken care of. Sony allowing devs to gain certification for low effort patches like Doom, Oblivion, etc is also an example of this!

You are getting a lot of latency for DLSS/FSR4, with or without frame-gen, it is just that top tier cards can brute force the raster quick enough to still take 4-5ms from the render budget and still hit a good high frame-rate, so your assessment of PSSR is missing the constraints it is successfully working under.

 

[onQ123]

Mark's technical breakdown of the PS5 Pro and PSSR was very specific about the AI of PSSR, and no it doesn't use a lot of data, the U-net neural net - which is like a Jpeg 2000 set of layers - uses just 128MBs of data. So splitting from unified RAM to RAM and VRAM would just thrash the north bridge with the loss of dereferencing requiring data copies on the data bus that is already struggling to scale its bandwidth each gen.

I don't understand what you are saying about the PS5 IO Complex being split RAM. It is the lowest tier of a hierarchical memory/storage pyramid but that has nothing to do with splitting memory, so even that isn't a reason.

I said nothing of PSSR

 

[PaintTinJr]

I said nothing of PSSR

But it is the primary use of AI in a PS6 so if you haven't intended to mean AI and PSSR interchangeably then what advantage are you talking about - when a split memory is a disadvantage for convolution neural networks?

AI will get used more for other things in the PS6 beyond PSSR2, but they won't be using a large language model or training a model in real-time - which needs lots of memory - the AI will all be light weight inferencing. So the basis of your comment doesn't align to game use of AI even beyond PSSR.

 

[ReasonBeing]

This seems less like a leak and someone just stating the obvious.