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[ZackieChan]

Yeah sorry mate. Selective reading. My response should have been directed at the dude you replied to

What'd I say?

It's just that these arguments have been done to death over a decade and a half. And his post didn't exactly bring anything new to the discussion. Hell, he hasn't even finished the books yet.

 

[CS_Dan]

Man I loved these books as a kid. The spectacle should be perfect material for Peter Jackson. Cautiously optimistic, despite the dire Hobbit films.

 

[ZackieChan]

Man I loved these books as a kid. The spectacle should be perfect material for Peter Jackson. Cautiously optimistic, despite the dire Hobbit films.

Are they "kid good" or "actually good"?

 

[RedShift]

Are they "kid good" or "actually good"?

I don't think I've read them since I was a teenager but the third and fourth books especially were pretty good. Second was a bit of a drag.

 

[Can Crusher]

Fellowship rocked. Only way it would've been better is if Peter Jackson had found a way to completely remove Frodo and his fat friend out of the story.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The LOTR films are absolutely the best films I have ever watched. I say that without any hyperbole.

The Hobbit films were a mistake but I believe that was mostly due to WB's studio interference. Peter Jackson never wanted to do them in the first place.

 

[ZackieChan]

The LOTR films are absolutely the best films I have ever watched. I say that without any hyperbole.

The Hobbit films were a mistake but I believe that was mostly due to WB's studio interference. Peter Jackson never wanted to do them in the first place.

Not wanting to do them does not necessarily lead to making three pretty awful films. Hobbit films are like 80% travesty, 20% good stuff.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Not wanting to do them does not necessarily lead to making three pretty awful films. Hobbit films are like 80% travesty, 20% good stuff.

I totally agree. But something doesn't add up when he made LOTR. I'm not defending him completely, but the worst film for me was by far the third, which wasn't supposed to have existed.

 

[Lord Panda]

What'd I say?

It's just that these arguments have been done to death over a decade and a half. And his post didn't exactly bring anything new to the discussion. Hell, he hasn't even finished the books yet.

It wasn't directed at you either Yeah I don't want to derail this thread further by reopening old Middle Earth wounds.

Read all of Philip Reeves' Metal Mortal Engine books ... can't remember anything other that the cities moved like a boss.

 

[Randdalf]

I remember reading and really enjoying the first book, but couldn't get into the second.

I actually best remember Philip Reeve for doing the illustrations in the Murderous Maths books I read when I was little.

 

[FeD.nL]

You see the thing is. That's just like, your opinion man. I'd disagree that it represents the spirit of the material as it removes the majority of what the material is to dumb it down or make changes that don't really add anything outside of being silly to those that do know the source material.

I'm not sure if you've read the books and if so the last time you did the movie isn't a good adaptation if it removes a majority of the source material. No one is arguing if it's a good film and simply because it is a good film doesn't mean it's a good adaptation. A good adaptation should at least be mostly faithful and preserve the original. Fellowship of the ring does not and that's okay, because obviously people like it, but I don't and I'm not the only one, it might not be the popular opinion but it's definitely not uncommon.

As for Frodo being chased by Nazgul, it didn't get old in the books so I don't see why it would in the movie. Having a mysterious pursuer or pursuers chase the protagonist(s) throughout the film isn't a new concept to cinema and has been done pretty well in other films, there's absolutely no reason it couldn't have been done here.

As for it not feeling rushed, they condensed something that happened over numerous months and half the book into a single night. Yeah sorry that feels incredibly rushed.

I understand that you like the film and think its entertaining, but it's neither a good nor faithful adaptation to the book.

Make whatever argument you want to the contrary but if J.R.R Tolkien's family feels the same way then obviously one opinion has more weight than the other.

Well for the family the material, understandably, carries a lot of emotional weight. Far more than for the average and even hardcore reader. So I don't think any director would be able to do justice to the material in the eyes of the family.

Furthermore these films got green lighted nearly 20 years ago. It's a small miracle that Jackson was allowed to be helming this production on the scale that he did. It's incredibly naive to think that they would be allowed to do a, in your words, 'faithful adaptation'. I think Peter Jackson and his team did a great job capturing the essence of the story with the means they were given.

 

[Polk]

Have we ever had a decent steampunk movie?

Does Wild Wild West count? And some people liked RDJ's Sherlock movies I assume.

 

[Randdalf]

Well for the family the material, understandably, carries a lot of emotional weight. Far more than for the average and even hardcore reader. So I don't think any director would be able to do justice to the material in the eyes of the family.

Furthermore these films got green lighted nearly 20 years ago. It's a small miracle that Jackson was allowed to be helming this production on the scale that he did. It's incredibly naive to think that they would be allowed to do a, in your words, 'faithful adaptation'. I think Peter Jackson and his team did a great job capturing the essence of the story with the means they were given.

IIRC the original plan was also to condense it down into one film, then two films, before they eventually made three.

 

[Monocle]

Let's all try to keep in mind that The Hobbit's issues were mainly the result of a very rushed and dysfunctional production, and that the trilogy isn't really a reflection of the creative abilities of the people involved.

Not to ignore certain aspects that were as great as LOTR, like the props, costumes, and cast.

His adaption of LotR was brilliant. He took the self indulgent prose of Tolkien and turned it into a compelling story.

Yep.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Let's all try to keep in mind that The Hobbit's issues were mainly the result of a very rushed and dysfunctional production, and that the trilogy isn't really a reflection of the creative abilities of the people involved.

Nope the hobbit was shit from top to bottom. Every aspect of it bar Bilbo and some of the music. Like I've never been so offended watching a movie and I watched ghost rider 2.

 

[ZackieChan]

I totally agree. But something doesn't add up when he made LOTR. I'm not defending him completely, but the worst film for me was by far the third, which wasn't supposed to have existed.

That third film. My god...

Let's all try to keep in mind that The Hobbit's issues were mainly the result of a very rushed and dysfunctional production, and that the trilogy isn't really a reflection of the creative abilities of the people involved.

Not to ignore certain aspects that were as great as LOTR, like the props, costumes, and cast.


Yep.

"rush" equals expand into 3 films with way more work? Eh, I'm not buying it. There was certainly a lot of talent involved, but the amount of excess is staggering, and I don't blame being rushed on that. A leaner tale would have probably been quicker to make and been better for it.

 

[Crow Pudding]

Have we ever had a decent steampunk movie?

Both Hellboy movies have quite a lot of steampunk.

And I also personally love City of ember, but it's questionable if it's a "decent" movie...

 

[Monocle]

Nope the hobbit was shit from top to bottom. Every aspect of it bar Bilbo and some of the music. Like I've never been so offended watching a movie and I watched ghost rider 2.

Seems like a balanced assessment lol.

That third film. My god...



"rush" equals expand into 3 films with way more work? Eh, I'm not buying it. There was certainly a lot of talent involved, but the amount of excess is staggering, and I don't blame being rushed on that. A leaner tale would have probably been quicker to make and been better for it.

When they're literally writing the script as they're filming, and they have a handful of months for preproduction versus the years they were afforded for LOTR, then yes, rushed is the word.

 

[Blade30]

That third film. My god...



"rush" equals expand into 3 films with way more work? Eh, I'm not buying it. There was certainly a lot of talent involved, but the amount of excess is staggering, and I don't blame being rushed on that. A leaner tale would have probably been quicker to make and been better for it.

It was definitely rushed because of the whole MGM deal/delay which made Del Toro to drop out and that PJ didn't want to helm the movies,
but ended up doing it anyway which led to this abominations as there was no real pre production like with LOTR. I can't really remember how the production went but they almost started from scratch thus leaving them
with short time and them fucking up the movies by splitting it into three movies instead of two, switching to CGI etc.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I remember Kjartan Poskitt poking fun at Reeve in one of the Murderous Maths books after Reeve released the first of these. (Reeve was the illustrator of the series.)

They're good YA sci-fi, from the era where YA sci-fi was still in the Animorphs "we can do really weird stuff and get away with it" phase. Same period as the third His Dark Materials book and the first Eragon book.

 

[ZackieChan]

Seems like a balanced assessment lol.


When they're literally writing the script as they're filming, and they have a handful of months for preproduction versus the years they were afforded for LOTR, then yes, rushed is the word.

It was definitely rushed because of the whole MGM deal/delay which made Del Toro to drop out and that PJ didn't want to helm the movies,
but ended up doing it anyway which led to this abominations as there was no real pre production like with LOTR. I can't really remember how the production went but they almost started from scratch thus leaving them
with short time and them fucking up the movies by splitting it into three movies instead of two, switching to CGI etc.

Eh, I can see that. I stand corrected. I didn't follow these films nearly as much as I did LOTR when they were being made.

 

[Busty]

Interesting that MRC were chosen to finance this rather than a studio. Could it be that they wanted more control or that none of the big studios were interested in financing this?

Do we have any idea what Peter Jackson's n ext film could be? I've heard some rumours (which I was actually going to use as the basis of a thread about rumours) but nothing concrete.

EDIT - I didn't realise Universal were partnering with MRC on this.

 

[Chuckie]

Well, when your father writes LOTR and you complete his legacy you can tell me otherwise. Until then, I'm just going to respectfully disagree.

Christopher Tolkien already hated the idea of the movies before they even came out. He wanted to disassociate with them. He reportedly disowned his own son because Simon Tolkien thought the Estate should be more cooperative with the the film makers.

Now does that sound like someone who will judge the movies with any objectivity to you?
He pissed on the movies before they came out, he was never going to give them any chance. And the 15-25 year remark is bullshit in any case, considering all the people I know who actually grew up with the books (like my parents for instance) and had already read those 5 times before these so called 15-25 year old's were born absolutely loved the movies

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Have we ever had a decent steampunk movie?

Does wild Wild West count?

Spoiler

hahahahahaha

 

[Purkake4]

I remember reading the first one a while back. Interesting idea, mediocre execution at best.

 

[jb1234]

Let's all try to keep in mind that The Hobbit's issues were mainly the result of a very rushed and dysfunctional production, and that the trilogy isn't really a reflection of the creative abilities of the people involved.

Not to ignore certain aspects that were as great as LOTR, like the props, costumes, and cast.

Didn't the screenwriters say that the scripts were basically a first draft but they ran out of time and had to put them into production? It's a shame because given more time (in all aspects of the production), I think the Hobbit films could have been amazing.

 

[shira]

Did Final Fantasy 8 gardens have influence from ME?

 

[Nipo]

Not really sure what you're attempting to imply. I'm no LOTR megafan as I've only gotten through the hobbit and the first book despite owning them all in addition to the simarilion and watched the film right after, it was well done in what it chose to do outside of the Nazgul and Gandalf/Saruman. I just don't like his choice of what to portray and what not to. I've explained my stance fairly thoroughly and respectfully, don't see why that's worthy of drive by pot shots.

So you haven't even read the whole book yet? Keep in mind LotR is meant to be read as a single story not considered three individual parts. Maybe finish that before saying the movie doesn't capture the feel. If your complaints were around omitting Tom bombadil I'd agree yes that was a significant cut that helped explain the nature of the one ring but would have been too hard to explain in the movie. But nothing you singled out had a material effect on the main theme of the book.

 

[Loxley]

From Jackson's Facebook page:

Peter Jackson
15 hrs ·
OUR NEXT MOVIE!

Hi Folks,

It’s been a quiet few months, but I’m very happy to tell you that our next project is now underway.

WingNut Films be producing a feature film based on Philip Reeve’s book Mortal Engines, to be directed by Christian Rivers. The script has been written by Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and myself. Some of you may recall that Christian was going to direct the Dambusters a few years back. Since then he’s kept himself busy, making short films, and directing Second Units on The Hobbit and Pete’s Dragon.

Our involvement in Mortal Engines actually pre-dates Dambusters (which is still happening) - Christian actually worked on Mortal Engines previs way back in 2009. It’s very exciting to finally get it underway! We’ve had the rights to Philip’s book series for several years, but have had to wait for the right time to make it.

If you haven’t read the books, you should. They present a stunning look into the future, when all of Earth’s major cities are now mounted on wheels, roaming across the landscape as massive “Traction Cities”. Our society has build itself on the principals of Municipal Darwinism - this basically involves the bigger cities hunting down, and consuming, the smaller ones. And that’s only the backdrop to an original and emotional personal story.

Philip Reeve has created a range of intriguing characters, following their adventures in our strange future world through four books - “Mortal Engines”, “Predator’s Gold”, "Infernal Devices” and “A Darkling Plain”. The moment we read these novels, we knew what exciting movies they’d make. I literally can’t wait to see them! The movie will be financed by MRC and Universal, and shooting will get underway next March, in New Zealand. Producers Zane Weiner and Amanda Walker, who both worked on the Hobbit, will be spearheading the NZ based team, along with Deborah Forte in the US.

No casting to announce yet, but Weta Workshop and Weta Digital are both onboard. With the wheels now rolling on Mortal Engines, I’ll bring you a lot of news and sneak peeks at what we’re doing over the coming months.

Cheers,

Peter J

 

[Korigama]

Did Final Fantasy 8 gardens have influence from ME?

Was out too late for that to be the case. The first of the Mortal Engines books was published in 2001, while FFVIII released in 1999.

 

[Killer Queen]

So you haven't even read the whole book yet? Keep in mind LotR is meant to be read as a single story not considered three individual parts. Maybe finish that before saying the movie doesn't capture the feel. If your complaints were around omitting Tom bombadil I'd agree yes that was a significant cut that helped explain the nature of the one ring but would have been too hard to explain in the movie. But nothing you singled out had a material effect on the main theme of the book.

Fellowship of the ring is one book. The movie is based off of that one book. Let's not get ridiculous.

You're free to have your opinion on it as am I and I don't feel it's a good adaptation. Get over it.

 

[Blade30]

Fellowship of the ring is one book. The movie is based off of that one book. Let's not get ridiculous.

You're free to have your opinion on it as am I and I don't feel it's a good adaptation. Get over it.

Originally it was all one book, Tolkien later splitted it into three books because the publisher asked him to do so (iirc paper was expensive back then).

 

[Killer Queen]

Originally it was all one book, Tolkien later splitted it into three books because the publisher asked him to do so (iirc paper was expensive back then).

That doesn't change the fact that in its current form, it is one book and that the movie is based off of the material from said book.

I didn't say it's a bad film so I don't see why everyone is so personally offended, it does some things very well and others not so much and as a standalone product it's fine and I can see why people love it, it's just not entirely faithful and the movie I would've liked to see would be and in combination with how he treated The Hobbit, I'm personally not too excited to see how he handles another material, maybe his work would be best suited to original material where his inserts and changes would be more welcome.

Anyone is free to disagree with me on that, it's my opinion and you have yours. No one is right or wrong but arguing with me over what's better ultimately doesn't matter because it's based off of what I'd like to see compared to what you'd like to see and obviously those two things are different and we can sit here, write long posts and continue to compare and contrast but really it's not going to change either of our opinions on what we personally would've liked to see.

I continued because I was asked to extrapolate and now that that conversation has been exhausted I'll be on my way