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Most complex antagonists ?

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Krelian from Xenogears, by far.

He finished his study on nanomachines and went on to join Solaris. There he won Emperor Cain's attention. He also won Miang's and the Gazel Ministry's. Cain was manipulated all along, he thought that Krelian was an ally in freeing humanity from "the bounds of the system" (from Deus), but Krelian was doing whatever he wanted. Cain offered to him his body for experiments so he could investigate on him to free humans from Deus, but Krelian took the oportunity to take Cain's DNA to clone him. He also altered Cain's flesh, and he weakened. Krelian was able to create a life support nanomachine system for him.

Not only did Krelian manipulate Cain, who was a god, but also kept him around as a puppet to control the masses. He was raised to the possition of Ministry of Defense of Solaris, but he was governing the whole country behind the shadows. Better said, he was governing the country that controlled the whole planet behind the shadows, behind the shadows. Cain was more a public face, and the Gazel Ministry more or less payed attention to him, and so did Miang (who was actually the closest to a true ally he had and not a puppet). He put nanomachine Limiter in all people on the planet using food to distribute them in an effective way. The Limiters limited their physical and psychological prowess. The people wouldn't be able to unleash their whole potential, and the psychological Limiter made them feel awe and fear of Cain and the Gazel, paralyzing them and making them follow all their orders (basically creating a "god effect").

He also controlled the whole world via Solaris, the kingdom of Aveh was controlled using Gebler's militrary enforcement (and later Shakhan, who was secretly a bishop of the Church, but he was a traitor) and Kislev using a remnant faction of the Church that remained very influential in politics. To resurrect Deus, he engineered a war between this massive countries to collect data on human abilities. He used Gebler's military support of Aveh, and Miang's (as the Executioner) contact with Kaiser Sigmund to provide Kislev with weapons. That way, the war was kept stable and long-going. Also, he could manipulate information and worldy affairs through the Church, control food suplies and have an ever growing slave supply flowing to Solaris. Uppon Solaris' destruction he engineered a nano-virus that spread around the planet and turned many people into Wels, just to increase Wel number.

His manipulation of Ramsus was always magnificent. Ramsus was the Cain clone he created, manipulated from childbirth after Krelian's calculated psychological torture. Basically, he engineered for everyone to call him a piece of shit and create a competent rival in Fei, so he could grow stronger. And after Fei had surpassed him even with his own Omnigear, Krelian decided to take out Cain by telling Ramsus to kill him (he was the only one who could do it). Ramsus did it, and after that was nearly thrown into the trash. Miang was always the biggest fish along with Krelian and was with him all along, posing as Ramsus' girlfriend only to add to the psychological manipulation. All of Ramsus' social healthy attributes and his whole psyche had been conditioned by Krelian and Miang, Ramsus was a puppet, his whole life and purpose was furthering the plan.

After the Gazel Ministry used the Goetia Key and Krelian recovered Deus' organic body, Krelian utterly crushed the Gazel's hopes of being gods and deleted them. Krelian manipulated the protagonists into going to Merkabah so he could take the Vessels of Anima and add them to Deus. After this and Miang's awakening in Elly's body, Krelian and Miang fused with Deus and began to assimilate the global population. After Deus' destruction, Krelian ascended to Wave Existence state, basically a god beyond even Deus.

Krelian's jest is the complexity and how well calculated is it all, and how he uses people to further his own ends, he uses their own character flaws. He manipulated the world for a number of purposes, and I haven't listed them all.
i fucking love you for this

ppl will be like "Sephiroth because HERP DERP" but in reality, a game like Xenogears takes a complete shit over animu-fest stories like the ones in FFVII
 

samoilaaa

Member
I just don't know if writing in gaming is truly strong enough to pick any real standout complex villains, most of the time complexity in gaming either comes from a plot twist or the sympathetic victim villain and both aren't really all that interesting.

I think cartoony over the top villains just work better in gaming, Kefka is one of the all times greats because of just how pure evil and maniacal he is.
i think we are slowly moving away from simple writing in gaming , in the 90's there are alot of games that had a serious mature tone then in the early 00's games started to be more childish in tone and now we are slowly going back to mature toned games
 

West Texas CEO

GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
God from the bible.
Dean Winchester Reaction GIF
 

Pejo

Member
Which games have complex antagonists ? Villains that can actually make you think " what if this guy is right ? what if his motives are valid and hes not the bad guy " , im sick of games with typical "i want to destroy this world " , the good guy comes and defeats him , end of story
Plot twist OP, I've actually started understanding the antagonists that want to destroy the world and kinda get it now.

I actually really like Magus from Chrono Trigger. Basically he's just trying to save the world in his own way after falling into a kinda shitty situation. At the time that the game came out, I never experienced anything like seeing his stoy from different angles over various time periods.
 
Krelian from Xenogears, by far.

He finished his study on nanomachines and went on to join Solaris. There he won Emperor Cain's attention. He also won Miang's and the Gazel Ministry's. Cain was manipulated all along, he thought that Krelian was an ally in freeing humanity from "the bounds of the system" (from Deus), but Krelian was doing whatever he wanted. Cain offered to him his body for experiments so he could investigate on him to free humans from Deus, but Krelian took the oportunity to take Cain's DNA to clone him. He also altered Cain's flesh, and he weakened. Krelian was able to create a life support nanomachine system for him.

Not only did Krelian manipulate Cain, who was a god, but also kept him around as a puppet to control the masses. He was raised to the possition of Ministry of Defense of Solaris, but he was governing the whole country behind the shadows. Better said, he was governing the country that controlled the whole planet behind the shadows, behind the shadows. Cain was more a public face, and the Gazel Ministry more or less payed attention to him, and so did Miang (who was actually the closest to a true ally he had and not a puppet). He put nanomachine Limiter in all people on the planet using food to distribute them in an effective way. The Limiters limited their physical and psychological prowess. The people wouldn't be able to unleash their whole potential, and the psychological Limiter made them feel awe and fear of Cain and the Gazel, paralyzing them and making them follow all their orders (basically creating a "god effect").

He also controlled the whole world via Solaris, the kingdom of Aveh was controlled using Gebler's militrary enforcement (and later Shakhan, who was secretly a bishop of the Church, but he was a traitor) and Kislev using a remnant faction of the Church that remained very influential in politics. To resurrect Deus, he engineered a war between this massive countries to collect data on human abilities. He used Gebler's military support of Aveh, and Miang's (as the Executioner) contact with Kaiser Sigmund to provide Kislev with weapons. That way, the war was kept stable and long-going. Also, he could manipulate information and worldy affairs through the Church, control food suplies and have an ever growing slave supply flowing to Solaris. Uppon Solaris' destruction he engineered a nano-virus that spread around the planet and turned many people into Wels, just to increase Wel number.

His manipulation of Ramsus was always magnificent. Ramsus was the Cain clone he created, manipulated from childbirth after Krelian's calculated psychological torture. Basically, he engineered for everyone to call him a piece of shit and create a competent rival in Fei, so he could grow stronger. And after Fei had surpassed him even with his own Omnigear, Krelian decided to take out Cain by telling Ramsus to kill him (he was the only one who could do it). Ramsus did it, and after that was nearly thrown into the trash. Miang was always the biggest fish along with Krelian and was with him all along, posing as Ramsus' girlfriend only to add to the psychological manipulation. All of Ramsus' social healthy attributes and his whole psyche had been conditioned by Krelian and Miang, Ramsus was a puppet, his whole life and purpose was furthering the plan.

After the Gazel Ministry used the Goetia Key and Krelian recovered Deus' organic body, Krelian utterly crushed the Gazel's hopes of being gods and deleted them. Krelian manipulated the protagonists into going to Merkabah so he could take the Vessels of Anima and add them to Deus. After this and Miang's awakening in Elly's body, Krelian and Miang fused with Deus and began to assimilate the global population. After Deus' destruction, Krelian ascended to Wave Existence state, basically a god beyond even Deus.

Krelian's jest is the complexity and how well calculated is it all, and how he uses people to further his own ends, he uses their own character flaws. He manipulated the world for a number of purposes, and I haven't listed them all.
First one gets it right off.
 

SHA

Member
Verbally or on what he did? It's totally a different question, verbally I'd say Borderlands characters and not the antagonist handsome jack specifically cause there's plot hole and even Lilith morals are questionable, she laughs at killing like a demonic b in bl1, I hate her so much.
 

RaduN

Member
Big Boss (post MGS3)

Silent Hill 2's James

Cliff Unger - his entire arc is just masterful storytelling
 
I'm with you OP.

Sometimes it's nice to have simple villains, especially if they're charming or likeable, but complex villains are deeply satisfying.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Somewhat of an esoteric choice, but... Jericho

maxresdefault.jpg


His motives and character aren't particularly complex or anything. But the way he is implemented into the game, what he represents in the story, its all so magnificently done you end up remembering him. You could say he is complex in a different sense from what OP is describing.
 
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Fess

Member
I’m going with some recent ones from the ever so popular game on GAF

Ikande / Delgado / Emissary / Hunter
Starfield

Spoilers:
Who is actually the villain? They look one-sided at first but when doing factions you notice that they are eventually all in the gray area and depending on how you look at things you can understand their actions.

Ikande wants more stability in the universe and less civilian lives destroyed by pirates.

Delgado wants a wild west universe with no big military organisation ruling over everyone.

Emissary wants to take the artifacts away from those not fit to have more power.

Hunter wants more power for himself, just like the player.

Pick a side. If you can. Or play them all out on multiple playthroughs like I’m doing.

Crimson Fleet vs UC SysDef I sided with Crimson Fleet and Delgado on my first playthrough, felt like the right thing to do at the time after bonding with the pirates and understanding that Ikande’s vision would likely eventually lead to dictatorship.

But the consequences spoken at the end by making the universe worse for civilians with stronger pirates made it feel like shit.

I tried to not pick a side on my second playthrough but somehow ended up with UC SysDef as enemies anyway. Bad quest design I’d say. There is no way to mind your own business which is what I wanted. I reloaded and has made sure to never trigger any contraband crimes which is what trigger that quest line.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not



This game is backwards compatible and yes its worth 30 bucks on Steam.
But if you can find a physical copy itll be like 2 dollars.





Part_II_Abby_2035_infobox.png
Abby perfectly fits OP's description.

Ellie is the Antagonist of that game.
Hell by the end of the game i was thinking fuck this bitch, why am i being forced to play as her.
Ellie is punch drunk and straight up OG'Kratos levels of (am I the bad guy now?).
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Dr. Breen in Half-Life 2 is well up there. He may have sold out humanity so that he could lead it, but if nobody did, the combine would've wiped out the entire human race anyway. Enslavement is preferable to annihilation in his eyes.
 

Comandr

Member
Ellie is the Antagonist of that game.
Hell by the end of the game i was thinking fuck this bitch, why am i being forced to play as her.
Ellie is punch drunk and straight up OG'Kratos levels of (am I the bad guy now?).
I don’t disagree. But they frame it as this new person who impacts (our known character’s life) in a bad way. And then we have to get revenge. Classic villain. But then the more you play as Abby, you realize that holy shit. She was right, and Ellie is the bad guy. And then you come to realize they are both wrong. This never ending cycle of hate has to stop with someone making the choice to put down the gun and let go.

And people say TLOU2 sucked. Wtf.
 
Hmm I wouldn't know anything about that, care to elaborate?

He was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer last year and died shortly after. Maruki's whole character arc goes from the bitterness of dealing with pain and rejecting reality, to acceptance and healing. There's no denying a lot of Maruki's ideals were pure and even though the way he achieved that was questionable, he was a really relatable character to many. I can imagine Billy Kametz dealt with a lot of that near the end - as well as friends, family, and fans.

Here's his final video:

 

Toots

Gold Member
Krelian from Xenogears, by far.

He finished his study on nanomachines and went on to join Solaris. There he won Emperor Cain's attention. He also won Miang's and the Gazel Ministry's. Cain was manipulated all along, he thought that Krelian was an ally in freeing humanity from "the bounds of the system" (from Deus), but Krelian was doing whatever he wanted. Cain offered to him his body for experiments so he could investigate on him to free humans from Deus, but Krelian took the oportunity to take Cain's DNA to clone him. He also altered Cain's flesh, and he weakened. Krelian was able to create a life support nanomachine system for him.

Not only did Krelian manipulate Cain, who was a god, but also kept him around as a puppet to control the masses. He was raised to the possition of Ministry of Defense of Solaris, but he was governing the whole country behind the shadows. Better said, he was governing the country that controlled the whole planet behind the shadows, behind the shadows. Cain was more a public face, and the Gazel Ministry more or less payed attention to him, and so did Miang (who was actually the closest to a true ally he had and not a puppet). He put nanomachine Limiter in all people on the planet using food to distribute them in an effective way. The Limiters limited their physical and psychological prowess. The people wouldn't be able to unleash their whole potential, and the psychological Limiter made them feel awe and fear of Cain and the Gazel, paralyzing them and making them follow all their orders (basically creating a "god effect").

He also controlled the whole world via Solaris, the kingdom of Aveh was controlled using Gebler's militrary enforcement (and later Shakhan, who was secretly a bishop of the Church, but he was a traitor) and Kislev using a remnant faction of the Church that remained very influential in politics. To resurrect Deus, he engineered a war between this massive countries to collect data on human abilities. He used Gebler's military support of Aveh, and Miang's (as the Executioner) contact with Kaiser Sigmund to provide Kislev with weapons. That way, the war was kept stable and long-going. Also, he could manipulate information and worldy affairs through the Church, control food suplies and have an ever growing slave supply flowing to Solaris. Uppon Solaris' destruction he engineered a nano-virus that spread around the planet and turned many people into Wels, just to increase Wel number.

His manipulation of Ramsus was always magnificent. Ramsus was the Cain clone he created, manipulated from childbirth after Krelian's calculated psychological torture. Basically, he engineered for everyone to call him a piece of shit and create a competent rival in Fei, so he could grow stronger. And after Fei had surpassed him even with his own Omnigear, Krelian decided to take out Cain by telling Ramsus to kill him (he was the only one who could do it). Ramsus did it, and after that was nearly thrown into the trash. Miang was always the biggest fish along with Krelian and was with him all along, posing as Ramsus' girlfriend only to add to the psychological manipulation. All of Ramsus' social healthy attributes and his whole psyche had been conditioned by Krelian and Miang, Ramsus was a puppet, his whole life and purpose was furthering the plan.

After the Gazel Ministry used the Goetia Key and Krelian recovered Deus' organic body, Krelian utterly crushed the Gazel's hopes of being gods and deleted them. Krelian manipulated the protagonists into going to Merkabah so he could take the Vessels of Anima and add them to Deus. After this and Miang's awakening in Elly's body, Krelian and Miang fused with Deus and began to assimilate the global population. After Deus' destruction, Krelian ascended to Wave Existence state, basically a god beyond even Deus.

Krelian's jest is the complexity and how well calculated is it all, and how he uses people to further his own ends, he uses their own character flaws. He manipulated the world for a number of purposes, and I haven't listed them all.
The most complex for sure, and your summary of his shenanigans is on point, but you cannot say that he is right.
He basically doomed everything and everyone so he can ascend to the wave existence realm.
 
Literally came to post this.

Also add The Boss from MGS3
Kain from Legacy of Kain
The Great Old Ones from Bloodborne
The Boss wasn't really the antagonist though in MGS3 but Volgin.

Kain from LoK is spot on though and would also be my choice for best video game antagonist.
 
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