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[Ned Flanders]

I've seen it a thousand times. But my thoughts are this:

1. Stockton and Malone are ALL TIME greats. The shots these guys made in the clutch against the greatest dynasty of their era are beyond reproach. I will hear no criticism of either of these men, because they belong in the pantheon with the legends of the game. I don't give a flying fuck what happened before or since, and I don't give a fuck about titles. These men are legends.

2. Jordan would not accept denial. Jordan would not allow you to beat him. Jordan could not accept defeat. The stars aligned and the earth moved for MJ. A man truly with the globe in his clinches in his day. I'm not a god fearing man, but I believe that god is in something that transcends natural phenonmena and circumstance. For a time, Jordan was god of his craft.

3. Jazz front office: Ok, maybe back to back finals losses broke your spirit, and maybe you finally bought into the "too old" critique. But even still, in 99, you were one impact SG/SF from a title, Duncan/Robinson Spurs included. A Sprewell, a Glen Rice, even a Mitch Ritchmond from eternal glory for your franchise and it's 2 most legendary players. You make a deal, you make history. Alas, you didn't, and another franchise started it's own championship tradition..

4. MJ. You hit the fucking shot. RETIRE, FOR GOOD!!! I don't give a single solitary flying fuck about your pride, your competitive spirit, or your belief that you could still play! You hit the all-time retirement shot for the ages! Just because Elway made the game-winning touchdown drive to his first Superbowl and happened to double up the next year doesn't mean that you can just duct-tape Kwame Brown and Popeye Jones to your nuts and drag them to another 'ship. You cut your finger on a cigar cutter!! That was god telling you "Knukka please!!" We don't want to remember Emmit Smith as a Cardinal, Gretzky as a Ranger, or you as a Wizard. WHY?? Fuck ownership and fuck ticket sales. You toyed with immortality and put a tarnish, however slight, on your otherwise nearly unblemished (and even the blemishes were "glamor blemishes"..infidelity, gambling etc) legacy. Weak sauce...

 

[Mike Works]

I would've thought this was an ancient bumped thread if there'd been any replies in it.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

5. MJ fucking fouled B Russ. What a piece of shit. The refs too.

 

[Miguel]

Momentum was carrying Russell in that direction anyway. Any hand motion Jordan made only added to the flair of Russell just getting his ass faked by the G.O.A.T.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Palsy, I see you, but at the same time...IT'S FUCKING MICHAEL JORDAN. You don't call a push-off on MJ in the 4th quarter of the Finals the same way you don't call Shaq leading with the elbow-dropstep crunchtime against Smits or Mutumbo in his first 2 title runs. He got an H-o-F'er call during an H-o-F'er moment the same way Stockton would have had he got a touch foul on the last second heave at the end of the game.

It's just one of those things where I see both sides. And keep in mind I was Jordan hater numero uno when this shit went down (and I'm still not a jocker).

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Good shot or not, and it was good, the refs fucking handed the game to the Bulls. I don't care wtf Jordan is. That was the most crucial time to get a call right, and the refs blew it.

 

[Ned Flanders]

You do realize that it was more than just the shot, no? Jordan not only got fouled ( a legit blocking foul on a drive) and hit 2 throws on the posession before (this after Stockton nailed a dagger 3 pointer), he also had to rip the ball from Malone (clean, I might add) to even have a look at the jumper that won the game. 5.2 seconds remained on the clock, and Stockton got the shot off without a foul...I mean you might be able to second guess the earlier part of the game, but the Jazz had the last several minutes in their grasp minus Jordan simply WILLING the Bulls to the victory. He could have missed one or both of the throws, he could have slacked on D and not swiped the ball from Malone, or he could have bricked the J and sealed the deal for the Jazz (more than likely a foul against the Bulls would have meant Stockton hitting one or more throws on the other end, with time all but expiring if the Bulls got another possession).

I mean it's not a case of Kings v Lakers, where, even though the Kings could have sealed it with better freethrowing, that the refs still gave the Lakers every single opportunity to stay in the game. That was a blatant near-fix that reeked of ratings-whoring. The NBA and Stern would have loved for a game 7 in Chicago in '98, and despite the Jazz doing everything necessary to bring home the W, Jordan simply would not allow it. It's a shitty feeling to finally make the realization, but when you remove yourself from the emotion of the thing, it's right there in front of you. That call was simply not worth a whistle in that situation. It's Hull in the crease in '99, or the Pats DB's clutching and battering the Colts last postseason. You just don't make that call, given the circumstances. And I'd call Jordan for jaywalking on a dirt road in Wyoming. But you don't make that call. Period.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

You do realize that it was more than just the shot, no? Jordan not only got fouled ( a legit blocking foul on a drive) and hit 2 throws on the posession before (this after Stockton nailed a dagger 3 pointer), he also had to rip the ball from Malone (clean, I might add) to even have a look at the jumper that won the game. 5.2 seconds remained on the clock, and Stockton got the shot off without a foul...I mean you might be able to second guess the earlier part of the game, but the Jazz had the last several minutes in their grasp minus Jordan simply WILLING the Bulls to the victory. He could have missed one or both of the throws, he could have slacked on D and not swiped the ball from Malone, or he could have bricked the J and sealed the deal for the Jazz (more than likely a foul against the Bulls would have meant Stockton hitting one or more throws on the other end, with time all but expiring if the Bulls got another possession).

I mean it's not a case of Kings v Lakers, where, even though the Kings could have sealed it with better freethrowing, that the refs still gave the Lakers every single opportunity to stay in the game. That was a blatant near-fix that reeked of ratings-whoring. The NBA and Stern would have loved for a game 7 in Chicago in '98, and despite the Jazz doing everything necessary to bring home the W, Jordan simply would not allow it. It's a shitty feeling to finally make the realization, but when you remove yourself from the emotion of the thing, it's right there in front of you. That call was simply not worth a whistle in that situation. It's Hull in the crease in '99, or the Pats DB's clutching and battering the Colts last postseason. You just don't make that call, given the circumstances. And I'd call Jordan for jaywalking on a dirt road in Wyoming. But you don't make that call. Period.

Translation: Blah Blah Blah Blah OMG you can't call a foul on Jordan. Blah Blah Blah.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Wait....Horny?!? Jeff Hornacek, is that you??

 

[Malleymal]

I am the only JAZZ fan in Jersey, so I was talking alot of shit around the time of this game and that shot hurt more than when I broke up with my first love... honestly... a small part of me still hates jordan to this day, but his greatness is just undeniable...

and when you say that we were one SF away , yea , i thought the same way... Byron Russel and Shandon anderson were decent at the SF position, they were slashers and could hiot a jumper here and there... I hated when we got rid of anderson... I loved Hornacek... his shot was H2O from damn near anywhere on the court...

thanks for bringing me back with this thread...

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

I am the only JAZZ fan in Jersey

KC and UT fan? *wipes tear from eye* Too bad I'm not gay, cause I think you're my soulmate.

, so I was talking alot of shit around the time of this game and that shot hurt more than when I broke up with my first love... honestly... a small part of me still hates jordan to this day, but his greatness is just undeniable...

and when you say that we were one SF away , yea , i thought the same way... Byron Russel and Shandon anderson were decent at the SF position, they were slashers and could hiot a jumper here and there... I hated when we got rid of anderson... I loved Hornacek... his shot was H2O from damn near anywhere on the court...

thanks for bringing me back with this thread...

So true. But I loved B Russ. back in '98 he could hit the 3, and was a great defender. Jordan not only fucked him in '98, he ruined his career with the Wizards. Fuck, you don't know the hate that runs through my veins for Jordan.

 

[Malleymal]

^^^ LMAO... that is crazy as hell that you are a chiefs and Jazz fan , all jokes aside, it sort of freaky....

 

[Cubsfan23]

That's funny, I never once heard Byron Russell say that he got fouled on that play. I don't see how anybody can do a crossover and push off a guy at the same time, unless you have 3 hands.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

That's funny, I never once heard Byron Russell say that he got fouled on that play.

Yeah, and he has more class than Jordan ever will.

I don't see how anybody can do a crossover and push off a guy at the same time, unless you have 3 hands.

Well, it happened. Watch it.

 

[open_mouth_]

I saw that replay and it's true how Jordan absolutely took over that game in the 4th quarter, put the battered bulls on his back and carried them, while stepping over the hapless Jazz, right to the Bulls 6th championship trophy. It was as if he could get any damn thing he wanted in the 4th quarter, whether it was foul shots or open looks. In retrospect, Sloan made a mistake by not trapping or doubling Jordan more since no one else was really doing any damage for the bulls.

And that final defensive strip by Jordan was just as telling of his grandeur as his final shot was and it was just as vital to the win. If the jazz hit a shot there or got an offensive rebound, the series goes to a game 7 and who knows what then... well, actually, if it went to 7, Jordan would've scored 50 or 60 or damn near 100 if he had to to win the game. No man has been as possessed as Jordan was in his career (nor has any man possessed the drive or desire and physical ability to actually be able to execute their goals like Jordan has), imo.

 

[tigerfan12345]

No man has been as possessed as Jordan was in his career (nor has any man possessed the drive or desire and physical ability to actually be able to execute their goals like Jordan has), imo.

if we're talking any sport, id say tiger woods would be up there during that run of his. But back to the topic, jordan was amazing in that 4th quarter, but that last noncall was still a shame. I would have loved to see a game 7 like millions other im sure.

 

[mrmyth]

That noncall was expected. The ref woulda caught a ball to the side of the head had he called on MJ. The man was bigger than the game - he was business. And big business always gets perks.

 

[BojTrek]

I am so happy I have this DVD collection...

Plus I was at a number of Bulls playoff games during their run...

 

[Loki]

Cerebral Palsy:

First off, you're nuts. What are you doing, drinking from the etiolateGA "Frothing Jordan Hatred" fountain?


Seriously though, Jordan did NOT push off on that play. Well, he did push off in the sense that his hand made the motion, but please realize that there IS NO WAY that such a slight movement would have had such a dramatic effect as you suppose. Also, have you ever seen that play from the side angle (as opposed to from behind Jordan)? I have, and it's clear that the "push-off" couldn't have had such an impact on Russell.


Furthermore, if you watch that very same game, you'll see that Jordan does nearly the same exact move to Shandon Anderson (a MUCH better defender than Russell), and that Anderson nearly falls himself (he only lost his balance). It's in the third quarter, I think; there may even be two other such instances in that same game, but I forget-- I know there's this one on Anderson, though, and it's pretty blatant how he lost his balance. And Jordan's hands were nowhere near him, nor was it an isolation (i.e., Anderson knew he had help on either side, yet still bit). In light of this, is it really unfathomable that, isolated with Jordan at the top of the key, Russell bit on the drive a bit too hard and then couldn't change directions quickly enough to recover because he stumbled?


I mean, dude, Jordan didn't even "push" him with his PALM-- he used his inner wrist, for crying out loud. What kind of force can you generate with that, while on the move, against a 220 pound defender. Jordan's not Hulk Hogan, you know.


But seriously, you should take a tranquilizer one day and actually watch the game. You'll see nearly the exact same thing done to Shandon Anderson.

 

[Miguel]

That's funny, I never once heard Byron Russell say that he got fouled on that play. I don't see how anybody can do a crossover and push off a guy at the same time, unless you have 3 hands.

Well, it happened. Watch it.

THAT'S HOW GREAT JORDAN IS! He can push off with one hand, and cross someone over with the 2nd hand, and shoot with his non-existant 3rd and 4th hands!




:lol

And Loki right on queue. We missed you dude.

 

[Guzim]

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Guys, how does it taste?

 

[Miguel]

Guys, how does it taste?

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

So that is what you use to wash it down?

 

[Miguel]

So that is what you use to wash it down?

No man, that is taken straight from MJ's manhood, straight to you.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

I liked how Malone fell to the floor after getting stripped. at first it looks like he was trying to get the ball, but look at it closely and its clear he's desperately trying to get a call from the refs. lol.

 

[Loki]

I liked how Malone fell to the floor after getting stripped. at first it looks like he was trying to get the ball, but look at it closely and its clear he's desperately trying to get a call from the refs. lol.

lol So true.

Not only that, but that pic always cracks me up because the ball is about half-way down to the ground, and Malone is still unaware that the ball isn't in his hands anymore. Talk about reaction time.


There was an article on Jordan in SLAM magazine upon his return to basketball in 1995; one of the lines said that "whether jamming on some trees, sending some poor fool's shit into the front row, or ripping the rock like a crackhead in debt, Jordan is still more than worth the price of admission." That Malone pic above made me think of that bolded part, because MJ really does look like he needs that ball to live.

 

[levious]

I dont' see how jordan's stint with the wizards tarnishes anything, if anything it made my impression of his career much greater... he scored in the 40's and 50's multiple times for the WIZARDS, not to mention made them competative, they even had a 10+ game win streak... The WIZARDS... I think most nba fans don't realize what a shit organization they are.

 

[Incognito]

I dont' see how jordan's stint with the wizards tarnishes anything, if anything it made my impression of his career much greater... he scored in the 40's and 50's multiple times for the WIZARDS, not to mention made them competative, they even had a 10+ game win streak... The WIZARDS... I think most nba fans don't realize what a shit organization they are.

And he's assured they remain shit for years to come with his shitty GM skilllz.

 

[levious]

not really, Abe Polin made the mistake of signing Stackhouse to an absurd extension, Jordan's intention in trading for him was to have cap room when he became a free agent.

 

[Incognito]

It's more than simply Stackhouse.

 

[bionic77]

And he's assured they remain shit for years to come with his shitty GM skilllz.

So true.

Jerry West > Jordan.

 

[levious]

It's more than simply Stackhouse.

that's the only thing I could think of that'd be damaging long term though... even with Kwame, Jordan realized in the first year that he just didn't have what it takes, yet Polin refused/refuses to deal him away, and now his trade value isn't much.

 

[Loki]

Just a heads up to my fellow Jordan whores:

They're replaying the game on ESPN Classic at 6 PM EST.

 

[Bowser]

Just a heads up to my fellow Jordan whores:

They're replaying the game on ESPN Classic at 6 PM EST.

*weeps*

WHY DON'T I HAVE ESPN CLASSIC!?!?!?

 

[Triumph]

Ah... back when the NBA was worth watching, if only to see The Greatest doing his thing.

And that game is the ultimate resonse to the halfwits who are so desperate to say "Kobe is the next Jordan!!" or "OMFG KOBE >>>> JORDAN LOLLERZ!!!!!!!!!!11"

If Kobe were the player that Michael Jordan was, he would not have accepted defeat in the finals this year. He would have asserted his will and made the series HIS. Instead, he bitched and whined and played like a spoiled little boy. And that should end all talk of Kobe being anywhere in the same building, much less equal to or better than, The Greatest Of All Time.

It won't though. Konex is desperate to own himself.

 

[DMczaf]

This thread gave me a boner.

 

[Loki]

This thread gave me a boner.

Frightening, but not unexpected.

 

[DMczaf]

And for people who get mad about him coming back, so the fuck what? He loves basketball, he had the ability to come back and play a game he loved one last time. How would you feel some millions of people decided what you did with your life? IF it was my choice I would have not come back, but guess what guys? Its not! Its his life. Awwww, poor you! You had to watch a player tarnish his "legacy", so the fuck what. If Jordan gave a shit what people thought of him he would have never went to play baseball in his NBA prime.