What's strange about this is that these were the projected numbers 3 months ago so why the doom and gloom? I wonder how people will react if they see other manufacturers down too.
Yeah that's what I'm assuming. God of War must have told 7+ million copies by now in this quarter alone. COD MW2 sold bonkers, mostly on PlayStation. Other games like Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, GT7, TLOU, and TLOU 2 continue to sell. I also think PS software sales would be up, but let's wait and see.
That's not the case though. PS has been performing extremely well in the same US and UK market and the effects are not being offset from other regions.It's also important to note that we are in the middle of an economic downturn and the primary markets for Xbox (US & UK) have been consistently down YoY in both hardware and software sales over these quarters (from the NPD and UK sales data). While these same issues will undoubtedly effect PS in these regions as well, the fact that Sony is stronger globally helps it offset any slowdown by increasing supply in some of the European markets that had previously been woefully under supplied.
Plus, there is the obvious issue of MS discounting the systems this last holiday when they didn't the year before. Even if unit numbers were identical, you start chopping $50, $80, or $100 (in some rare promos) off the price per unit sold and that revenue number is going to take a hit.
I hope notJust saw the news... Wow at Xbox this current quarter, especially with PlayStation 5 in stock & Doing bonkers while Nintendo is increasing production.
Phil Spencer has to go.
I think Phil is doing his job the way he's supposed to.Just saw the news... Wow at Xbox this current quarter, especially with PlayStation 5 in stock & Doing bonkers while Nintendo is increasing production.
Phil Spencer has to go.
Just a heads up, that source is from December 2020.PS5 just recorded its best year in December 2022 for a video game console in US history. (Source)
Maybe the block against the ABK aquisition from the FTC, is a blessing in disguise for MS..
Oops, added the wrong link, fixed! Thank you!Just a heads up, that source is from December 2020.
Can't remember Mat's tweets for December 2022.
Halo Infinite had f2p multiplayer. It was never intended to sell Game pass. You didn't need Game pass to play half the game. I don't know why people bring up that title over Forza which clearly was meant to attract people to Game pass.
You realize there is a showcase for up coming games TOMORROW right? Decide how concerned to be after watching the show at least.
Huh? They said it themselves "driven by lower price and volume of consoles sold
looks like customers decided its still bad value, while switch at its outdated af hardware and higher price sold so well over the years, it had quality exclusives tho, thats the major diferenceHardware is down despite having a $199 Xbox series S available during the majority of the holidays?
Where did he say its becoming irrelevant?Jim Ryan came out and stated they sorted issues and supply will pick up starting from last years holidays.
It shows, as PS5 outsold Series S/X during the holidays, despite Xbox price cuts.
It also shows in the decline in HW sales for MS.
Xbox in general is in decline. These numbers fall in line with statements from Spencer saying Xbox is becoming irrelevant.
Read between the lines.Where did he say its becoming irrelevant?
Eh nobody really knows how it went but stock in January has been massive.Cant wait to see Sony and nintendos reports vs last year and see people's energy then. Even a mid to high single digit down turn must be terrible news for them with the big releases.
I guess people are expecting gains of low to mid double digits at least for Sony. They didn't have any big games for Xmas 2021 so God of war, Horizon and gt7 should be showing decent growth for their q4 numbers, right?
Couple that with the fact Sony said they sorted their supply chain out for peak, consoles were everywhere so I'm expecting big things from them and it looks like a lot of users here are.
COVID wasn't as strong late 2021. Also, hardware sales aren't affected by COVID anyway. After all, COVID didn't inflate HW sales in 2021 (Xbox didn't beat PS5) and HW only grew by 4% last year, and PS5 just had its record year in December 2022.*vs covid q4 2021 right?
Looking at the evidence we have seen to date:Cant wait to see Sony and nintendos reports vs last year and see people's energy then. Even a mid to high single digit down turn must be terrible news for them with the big releases.
I guess people are expecting gains of low to mid double digits at least for Sony. They didn't have any big games for Xmas 2021 so God of war, Horizon and gt7 should be showing decent growth for their q4 numbers, right?
Couple that with the fact Sony said they sorted their supply chain out for peak, consoles were everywhere so I'm expecting big things from them and it looks like a lot of users here are.
It seems asking people to leave the PlayStation 4 library they built up behind is difficult.Numbers go up and down. No such thing as infinite growth. That said how healthy is your business matters. With Xbox, that's pretty grey because they obfuscate so much shit when it comes to the gaming stuff. It seems like they're only ones that does it to this degree.
The only things I find interesting here is the lower volume of consoles sold over that 3 month stretch. That really shouldn't have been the case. I mean they practically tried to give away the little speaker box. It had like 100 different promotions and was $200 yet still was always in stock. It was in stock all of last year too.
But that doesn't matter. Because if it mattered, gaming revenue would have been up, despite a decline in HW revenue.Well, you also have to consider that they release everything on PC, so people still use Xbox's services without getting the consoles.
It seems asking people to leave the PlayStation 4 library they built up behind is difficult.
But that doesn't matter. Because if it mattered, gaming revenue would have been up, despite a decline in HW revenue.
The ground realities haven't changed much: revenue, software sales, and subscribers are all tied up to console sales. When console sales go up, everything goes up. When console sales go down, almost everything else goes down too.
Why would game revenue have been up? it only means that it would have been even worse without XBOX PC.But that doesn't matter. Because if it mattered, gaming revenue would have been up, despite a decline in HW revenue.
The ground realities haven't changed much: revenue, software sales, and subscribers are all tied up to console sales. When console sales go up, everything goes up. When console sales go down, almost everything else goes down too.
Not necessarily. Because there are 2 other companies (Nintendo and PS) who don't release everything on PC and do not treat PC the same way as Xbox does. They continue to post higher and higher revenues. So we have those examples.Why would game revenue have been up? it only means that it would have been even worse without XBOX PC.
Because Xbox console users make up the majority of Gamepass subs.Why are subscribers tired up in console sales?
"We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe," Spencer said.
Nice try but the PS5 & Switch is selling just fine without COVID lockdowns.*vs covid q4 2021 right?
They've been saying it since the original Xbox, 2 decades later.....A lot if wishful thinking going on about xbox going away. All very emotional but not very rational. Be careful what you wish for hardcore fanboys.
Lots of food for thought in your overall post that I might revisit for further discussions, but I wanted to comment on this part of it for now.My guess is that 2024 gamepass will shift to more 1st party content and less 3rd party to improve margins, but at a cost to overall subs.
How dare you? The Series S was a masterstroke by Xbox division according to certain people on this very site. It was a no brainer at $200????Holy shit Hardware down 13% during the holidays when they dropped the pricing to $200 for the Series S and that had massive stocks. The end is near. Who would have thought that people buy gaming consoles to play great games. Someone please tell Phil Spencer.
Don Mattrick who left the company 10 years ago:
These results kinda confirm a lot of what the eye test told me a while back. It's anecdotal on my end, but I've been seeing a lot of Xboxes (both X and S) available on store shelves with no takers, even when they got on sale (heavily discounted in S's case).
You look at the numbers it's honestly abysmal for MS to be in this shape when entering a new console generation, in fact, you look at how they are approaching the ABK deal with regulators, and you can tell from their offers of making COD available on PS for a decade that they have essentially given up on this gen and are already planning for the next.
I think if ABK deal doesn't land, then Spencer is gonna out of a job.
Lots of food for thought in your overall post that I might revisit for further discussions, but I wanted to comment on this part of it for now.
I don't think that making GP more 1st party is gonna necessarily improve its margins, mainly because the capital spent on developing said 1st party titles is now exclusively MS's, there's no one that will "share the risk" of putting those titles on GP like there is with 3rd party. Paying say, Square, 10 million to put Triangle Strategy or whatever on GP day 1 is infinitely cheaper than making a similar game all by yourself, especially when most of the games on GP are of the indie and AA variety. Licensing is just always a far less risky and far less expensive endeavor than making things from scratch.
It's the same reason why Netflix had to take on a ton of debt (and raise prices multiple times) to finance all their productions that they needed to make in order to replace the content they lost when former partners decided to make their own streaming platforms.
How dare you? The Series S was a masterstroke by Xbox division according to certain people on this very site. It was a no brainer at $200????
This is what happens when you target two different consoles. Now we need numbers on the split between S&X
Is it really increasing in supply? The XSXs are still not super easy to get so the supply is selling. Is this all a reduction in XSS sales? It is baffling without more info. Perhaps it was just that they got more out the door in the previous quarter and then supply slowed or something.Hardware numbers down like that in year 2 of a console with increasingly supply is a disaster.
Never saw such a dying wish of someone to fail as I see on this forum the wish of Phil Spencer to fail and be fired. It's like he's taking the lunch money of so many of you...Spencer is definitely out of a job if ABK falls through.
If the ecosystem difference reach criticality, you get 'free exclusives". As an example Japanese console games often don't come out on Xbox in Japan because it isn't worth their time. And this means Sony gets exclusives that end up happen by default.We're going to reach a point in this generation where Sony doesn't even bother with many exclusivity deals because it just won't matter.
Never saw such a dying wish of someone to fail as I see on this forum the wish of Phil Spencer to fail and be fired. It's like he's taking the lunch money of so many of you...
Its because of fear. Spencer is making or tryîng to make big moves and change the game up a bit and they cant have that. Change always brings fear with it and some people prefer an eternal status quo for obvious reasons.Never saw such a dying wish of someone to fail as I see on this forum the wish of Phil Spencer to fail and be fired. It's like he's taking the lunch money of so many of you...
I don't understand your point. How could Xbox game revenue "not necessarily" be worse without PC? if you removed Xbox on PC, they clearly would suffer more.Not necessarily. Because there are 2 other companies (Nintendo and PS) who don't release everything on PC and do not treat PC the same way as Xbox does. They continue to post higher and higher revenues. So we have those examples.
Because Xbox console users make up the majority of Gamepass subs.
https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-game-pass-comments-phil-spencer-214044898.html
If the ecosystem difference reach criticality, you get 'free exclusives". As an example Japanese console games often don't come out on Xbox in Japan because it isn't worth their time. And this means Sony gets exclusives that end up happen by default.
Wii U sales was so bad that it barely has third party games. On the other hand, Switch is so important that third party studios can't ignore it, and jump at the chance to port their games to it despite the power difference. Having a large ecosystem is always important.
Of course Xbox tried to say it doesn't matter. But reality doesn't care what they say.
Only 30fps with RT on 4KDoes Office run at 60fps?
A game that was mocked across the internet from the day it was revealed? No, I don't think Halo Infinite quite qualifies. Apart from old fans coming back to see if 343i delivered (spoiler: they didn't), no one really cared about Halo Infinite because it didn't do anything worth caring about.
I'd argue that Forza Horizon 5 already served as an example, but Starfield certainly has a larger appeal. It's a fair barometer. If Starfield is a decent game and it doesn't work out on Game Pass, I'd probably say nothing would. All eyes on Todd "Sweet little lies" Howard to deliver.
Nice try but the PS5 & Switch is selling just fine without COVID lockdowns.
I was referring to the opportunity cost of bringing games day 1 to PC.I don't understand your point. How could Xbox game revenue "not necessarily" be worse without PC? if you removed Xbox on PC, they clearly would suffer more.
And even if consoles tie up most subs, which frankly your quote doesn't say, it still means there is a substantial amount of PC-only players who use Xbox. Just because consoles dominate doesn't mean PC subscribers are not important.
Yep. It really is unfair. Blaming the guy who left the company 10 years and 2 generations ago, instead of blaming the guys who have been in charge for the last 10 years.
Poor Don has been out of gaming (last one was Zynga) since 2015. The poor lad still taking unfair hits.