I welcome any and all corrections to the OP.
My Beef with Summer Lesson
- Thread starter Dylan
- Start date
I welcome any and all corrections to the OP.
lol
I think the extent of the "immoral things" the game allows you to do is make the girl feel uncomfortable if you get too handsy. That is why this is such a weird thing for people to get so offended over.
sechsterangriff
Member
At least watch a complete playthrough and just don't go making assumptions based on someone making wild assumptions.
Also, I keep reading words like "flirtatious" and "sexualized" when the character does absolutely nothing in that regard. Seriously... This is the type of shit that honestly sacres me imagining you have the same views in the real world.
This seems like an odd example. The entire thrust of the plot is that the lead character's reputation would be ruined if it were discovered she were working at a maid cafe. If it didn't have those connotations you say it doesn't, the entire plot would fall apart.
partyphone
Banned
i think there's absolutely a place for titillation and sex in video games but this game just looks bad.
Leafhopper
Banned
"JAPAN DOES THIS SO EVERY THING THAT COMES OUT OF IT HAS THESE INTENTIONS."
That isn't how that works.
packy34
Member
It's a SLIPPERY SLOPE TO ROTTING MORALS, didn't you know?
mario_O
Member
Never played any of those games. But I guess it's also weird to shoot people in the head and have fun with it. But we all know It's just a fantasy.
This game looks like a girlfriend simulator for teenagers (the vast majority of people who have a console). And that's fine, better than shooting people even.
User123456
Member
The people using these options are not immoral either. Am I immoral for killing random citizens in Skyrim?
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah this topic has gone into a weird place.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Haha that's \W/estworld pretty much.
This is an interesting topic, I'm not going to discuss whether the game is directly or indirectly sensual in any way because I haven't played it and there are cultural differences involved, however I feel that it brings out a very interesting topic about simulation and morality, or to be more precise, the fact that society in general thinks violence for example is more permissible than sexual content.
It's pretty funny how we have threads about the morality of oogling a schoolgirl and terms like "consent" come up but we treat photorealistic evisceration, decaptitations and all most other kinds of vilolence like usual business. I feel that as long as the videogame industry keeps growing at this rate and we immerse ourselves in more and more realistic experiences there will need to be a serious discussion about what is and isn't permissible.
forknknife
Banned
If you don't get what the real intentions of the developer are when they let you role playing with a hot school girl alone in her bedroom then... I'm just sorry for your bubble but I'm about to burst it for you... they want you to think you can fuck that school girl in the ass!!!! IN THE ASS!!! lol
bobawesome
Member
Won't be long before people who enjoy the game are compared to pedophiles.
edit: too late, thanks above poster
It was a mercy killing. You freed them from having to live a bland existence in a lifeless world. Also, their knees were killing them.
YianGaruga
Banned
Already happened multiple times in this thread lol
I think you have problems dude. This says so much more about you than the game.
I'm not saying there's no sexual component to the game, but you don't understand what it is.
chillybright
Banned
packy34
Member
It's already arguably happened in this thread
Otakumegane
Member
You can't deny that a great deal of people out there wanting to purchase the game will be doing so for the exact purpose of creeping.
I mean people are free to buy a product that they enjoy but lets not go down the route of "guns are for protection" analogue.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Thank you.
When a game puts this in it's marketing:
the intentions are pretty goddamn clear. Followed by the tone of every thread that this game got a trailer of, get out of here with this "b-b-b-but the devs didn't intend that" bullshit. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Shōjo often has very questionable messages and values though imo. Can't remember much from this one, been too long since I read it.
Well, then it is your guys opinion then. I mean, many others don't have the same problem here. At least, we won't go and judge others for liking what they like lol.
TatteredHat
Member
Both pedophiles and white supremacists have already happened, so we're going for the mega-combo.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about, or seemingly how the Japanese gaming industry works. The game has a 12+ rating for starters, and the Japanese ratings board doesn't even allow nudity or sex in console games, they even censor the western ones that feature it.
Yes, I agree; all the people who purchase that game intend to rape that girl. This is a fair and reasonable assumption.
I think I am done here. You guys enjoy your witch hunt.
sono
Member
rochellepaws
Member
She's the student council president and has earned a personality of being tough and harsh with her peers. She sees her part time job as a maid compromising this as she has to act sweet and cute and fears her schoolmates finding out about this. It has nothing to do with cultural shame in working in a maid cafe or viewing it as a dirty or pervy profession, It's just embarrassing to her doing something at odds with the personality she has forged.
Well, my thought was based on the idea that actions comitted in a videogame can very well be immoral.
Wether or not they actually can be, is a different question ofc.
I personally would disagree with that as well, as my concept of morality is build around the core question of "Does it Harm, who does it harm and how much"
Dylan, I think you might be very judgemental and actually pretty awful.
I say this mostly because I know that I'm pretty judgemental and horrible, and it's something that I do my best to curb. You can easily establish a nasty little bubble of normal behaviour and cast shade one the motives of anyone to operate outside it.
For a long time I felt pretty shitty towards 'gamer bros with headsets', which I associated with angry xbox players that only played games that they could play with their other bros with headsets, comparing gamerscores and favouring macho military content over anything remotely thoughtful. Really these folk are just having fun chatting with friends in a way that I don't do personally, so that's fair enough.
I'm a fan of ASMR, and fans of this often get abuse because it's assumed that the content is sexual, as opposed to just relaxing. More than anything it doesn't matter what content anyone uses for any type of fun, relaxation or horny kicks. Once we start policing these stuff it gets pretty judgemental pretty quickly.
I really encourage you to think about the negative ways that games are treated by people in the media, and consider how the way you're acting isn't much different, it's just that you've decided which type of content is totally okay.
forknknife
Banned
I was just joking, come on. I just find really weird how some of you are defending the game for just being a teaching simulator. Look at that post with the gif where the girl drops her pen and goes "oops! I hope you're not a perv!". Come on.
And 12+ age for this game is.... wow
Tx for deciding what others intend of buying a game lol.
Hope u enjoy the game where it allowed u to kill people walking in the street lol. Maybe the main intention of u guys buying those game is also because u guys love that Killing simulator lol.
To me most "games" like this come across and pervy and unnerving. A lot of visual novel/dating sims type games do too to me. Not that there's anything wrong with a lot of them, I'm not here to kink shame. Get your rocks off or randy by viewing whatever you want to as long as it is legal.
I'd be embarrassed playing these games too. I try my best not to judge those who do enjoy them however.
A lot of people do. I try my best not to pass judgement on people, but I'll certainly judge the games themselves. People are allowed to do whatever they want to do.
A lot of them come across as ogling women simulators, or interacting with conveniently naive women, which makes me feel weird about them.
I'd be embarrassed playing these games too. I try my best not to judge those who do enjoy them however.
A lot of people do. I try my best not to pass judgement on people, but I'll certainly judge the games themselves. People are allowed to do whatever they want to do.
A lot of them come across as ogling women simulators, or interacting with conveniently naive women, which makes me feel weird about them.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I don't think it's wrong if you want to play this "game". I don't think you are some kind of sex pervert (or, as the German Bild put it so poethic) a Sexmonster.
With that out of the way: I think this thing is extremly creepy. I have never been attracted to virtual women so this is sooooooooo not in my wheelhouse. I don't get the appeal at all. To me this is might as well be the kind of game that sells some "X-Ray vision" DLC for 40€ and a "get physical" DLC for another 80€. I dunno. Wasn't there some weird actual VR Porn game on Kickstarter some time ago? That produced some hilarious gifs at least
If you like it, good for you. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But maaaaaaan, you and I, we don't share the same taste in games. (Which is fine)
With that out of the way: I think this thing is extremly creepy. I have never been attracted to virtual women so this is sooooooooo not in my wheelhouse. I don't get the appeal at all. To me this is might as well be the kind of game that sells some "X-Ray vision" DLC for 40€ and a "get physical" DLC for another 80€. I dunno. Wasn't there some weird actual VR Porn game on Kickstarter some time ago? That produced some hilarious gifs at least
If you like it, good for you. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But maaaaaaan, you and I, we don't share the same taste in games. (Which is fine)
C'mon dude your having a moral dilemma over something of your own fabrication. This worry over something insidious underneath this cute social experience reads to me like those blog posts about how harry potter was actually about cthulu. Funny to think about, but there's actually nothing there.
rochellepaws
Member
It's only a creep simulator if you possess and exhibit the characteristics of a creep. Otherwise it's a teaching simulator.
If you honestly think that, then you must be extremely naive. Just look at the marketing video.
packy34
Member
The game is rated 12+ in Japan. There will never be any overt sexuality in this game. There isn't any now. People are projecting their attraction (or their perceived concept of others) onto this game because there's a school girl in it.
YianGaruga
Banned
12 seems fine for this game, it doesn't have any sexual content, that's all in your head. Why would it have to be 16/18? On what basis?
Of course there's some stuff in there that's supposed to titillate. But it's super tame and not at all as deviant and outrageous as "some of you" (good job of grouping people together) are describing it here. It's 95% fantasy that's happening in your imagination. Can't really rate a game based on that can you?
I'm so glad to be part of this great community here at GAF.
The "judge not lest ye be judged" argument is fine, but it breaks down when you start talking about the enjoyment of a non-consensual sexual activity, even if it's "just a game".
Is it illegal? No.
Is it morally wrong? Probably not.
Is it kind of fucked up? I argue that yes. Yes it is.
This is honestly a really interesting thread and a first post with much to digest.
I agree with you on a lot of points and I think there is a lot to find uncomfortable about the game, but on the other hand - I play shooter games occasionally. I do not condone gun ownership in the real world, and having been to a gun range exactly once, I can say I'd really rather not ever fire another one in my life. I have no desire to commit violence toward others whatsoever, but I enjoy a round of R6: Siege, or even the OTT rip-and-tear of DOOM.
Obviously sex and violence are two different things (or at least they bloody well should be), but the way the two are treated differently in entertainment and censorship is very complex.
Anyway no real fully-formed point here, just wanted to chime in and praise the thought put into the OP, I'll certainly be forming some thoughts of my own on the subject over the next few weeks, and will most likely pick up that english-language version to experience it for myself, even if I end up really disliking it and finding it uncomfortable, it's certainly an academically interesting new type of entertainment we're not going to see the last of with the advent of VR.
I agree with you on a lot of points and I think there is a lot to find uncomfortable about the game, but on the other hand - I play shooter games occasionally. I do not condone gun ownership in the real world, and having been to a gun range exactly once, I can say I'd really rather not ever fire another one in my life. I have no desire to commit violence toward others whatsoever, but I enjoy a round of R6: Siege, or even the OTT rip-and-tear of DOOM.
Obviously sex and violence are two different things (or at least they bloody well should be), but the way the two are treated differently in entertainment and censorship is very complex.
Anyway no real fully-formed point here, just wanted to chime in and praise the thought put into the OP, I'll certainly be forming some thoughts of my own on the subject over the next few weeks, and will most likely pick up that english-language version to experience it for myself, even if I end up really disliking it and finding it uncomfortable, it's certainly an academically interesting new type of entertainment we're not going to see the last of with the advent of VR.
chillybright
Banned
What are these nonsense moral talks??
I have been a nice amd lawful person in real life, now I have to be judged for my in game actions, too?
It's just a game ffs. Do whatever you want.
I have been a nice amd lawful person in real life, now I have to be judged for my in game actions, too?
It's just a game ffs. Do whatever you want.
It's a teaching simulator with a cute girl. Thank you for everyone calling a creep
Leafhopper
Banned
You cannot capitalize on that in the game in anyway and all I see is a trope. There is no sexual content in the game and you don't know what the devs intentions were explicitly. It's only creepy if you think it's creepy to begin with. Knowing how you are about these things, I know its kinda fruitless to respond but, I might as well give it a shot.When a game puts this in it's marketing:
the intentions are pretty goddamn clear. Followed by the tone of every thread that this game got a trailer of, get out of here with this "b-b-b-but the devs didn't intend that" bullshit. They knew exactly what they were doing.
travisbickle
Member
Seems fine to me. The student/teacher role looks like an interesting idea for presence within a VR world. From what I've seen, it's not even as bad as "Leon" in projecting a sexual fantasy, I'm positive VR games will exist that are much worse and I'll readily criticise if I find them offensive.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
So what if that was the case? Who cares? Why is it bad to indulge in a romance fantasy?Thank you.
When a game puts this in it's marketing:
the intentions are pretty goddamn clear. Followed by the tone of every thread that this game got a trailer of, get out of here with this "b-b-b-but the devs didn't intend that" bullshit. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Moreover, if these types of games are bad, why is rape so rare in Japan compared to other countries? There is an actual market for games, novels and manga with non-consensual sex, even with underage characters, and it seems like it's fairly big, so why isn't it having a bad influence?
Could it be that allowing people to live out their desires in a safe virtual space means they're less likely to do something stupid in real life? Could it be that people who commit rape do it because they're mentally ill, and not because they played a "rape simulator"?
Why is it that this same logic is wrong and ridiculous when applied to school shooters, but totally acceptable when applied to media with sexual content? Did you get consent from that NYC before you killed him?