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[Mrmartel]

Modern men don't want to commit? This thread is a perfect case example of why. Now this isn't going to happen in every marriage and there were lots of Red Flags in the OP's situation. Yet it is still terrifying for most men, because many could easily fall into the same path without even knowing it. Just the fact that the risk is there and the courts/laws/custody are extremely biased are huge turnoffs from marriage.

I wouldn't say don't get marriage, but be extremely careful. The op is certainly a stronger/better man then me. Self deliverance would of looked very appealing to me if I was in a similar situation. I just don't have the will to overcome obstacles like that.

Also, prenups are mostly useless. They are extremely hard to make airtight for all the changes that occur later on in life, like kids and improved financial earnings/assets, they can also be thrown out by a biased Judge just as easily as well.

Family courts are the devils playground. Injustice is its motto.

 

[paragonpro]

Get this out to news papers, turn the story against her, the majority's good will will help you immensley.

 

[Super_Cobra]

Wow I hate how shitty the law can be. Women want to be equal as men, then they shouldn't be automatic custody of children during a divorce. They can work and pay child support too.

 

[Gamerloid]

I think a lot of people in this thread are confused how a prenup works. A prenup protects assets you had before you got married. Anything made after you get married gets divided up. A prenup doesn't mean you break it off without splitting assets or owing alimony.

It is something I need to read into, and I'm going to right now. I believe you can write off alimony for both parties in Florida (my state) though.

Get this out to news papers, turn the story against her, the majority's good will will help you immensley.

I think you should actually do this. It might just get big enough for people to start talking about it online and give an opportunity to chance these broken laws.

 

[Matt]

Get this out to news papers, turn the story against her, the majority's good will will help you immensley.

Not to diminish the obvious pain the OP is going through in this horrible situation, but what about this story would "newspapers" care about?

 

[DCX]

It's a no win situation. If you complain then the narrative is you are not supporting your kids even though the ability to see them and do things with and for them financially is next to nothing.

It's a sad situation and I guess the only thing that can said is make sure you marry the right woman/man and if you have kids especially.

DCX

 

[Frozenprince]

Not to diminish the obvious pain the OP is going through in this horrible situation, but what about this story would "newspapers" care about?

"Divorce sucks, more at 11"

 

[Chiclets]

Nothing? I'm approaching 10 years of marriage in a 22 year relationship with two kids. I'd hardly say I'm getting nothing out of this. In fact, splitting bills, splitting chores, having someone that I can rely on to help me in life, especially if I'm feeling deathly ill in bed, and having double the income seems like a lot to gain rather than nothing. Not to mention some of the happiest moments in my life. I can't say I'd be happier without all that.


I'm happy for your but you are in the minority. Marriage in general has gone down hill and relationships are pretty much a farce.. To many options to stay loyal.

 

[riotous]

Even having a shitty divorce didn't scare me away from relationships at all, or even marriage.

I don't think relationships are for everyone though; I have friends that seem endlessly destined to be in bad relationships or for them to cause more stress than gain. They have a lot of serious work to do on themselves. Relationships help you do that though if you have the right attitude; try to learn from them.. and focus on learning about yourself. Most people post-relationship want to blame the other person for everything and do very little soul searching. Even in relationships I've been in that ended in cheating, I still could identify mistakes I'd made and things I'd done; a lot of time that boils down to realizing that you had more warning signs than you wanted to heed. And I don't just mean warning signs in the other person; warning signs about yourself are much more important. Learning to end relationships at the right time is a skill that often is only learned from failure.

We are often brainwashed NOT to end relationships no matter how unhappy we are; there are entire belief systems where staying a virgin until marriage, and never divorcing is the ultimate goal. Evne though so few people live to this fucked up standard, it still influences how we act in relationships. Namely we stay together with people even when we are unhappy; it's a sick sort of torture we enact on ourselves.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm happy for your but you are in the minority. Marriage in general has gone down hill and relationships are pretty much a farce.. To many options to stay loyal.

Actually, I'm not. Most marriages work out. The stats show that as low as 2 out of 3 and as high as 3 out of 4 of all first time marriages work out. The divorce rate is in decline too.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Actually, I'm not. Most marriages work out. The stats show that 75% of all first time marriages work out. The divorce rate is in decline too.

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

I've been with my SO for 10 years now, we have a joint bank account, share bills, and have 2 kids. We do everything a married couple would do. What's the benefit of a govt document saying we're married?

 

[Chiclets]

Actually, I'm not. Most marriages work out. The stats show that 75% of all first time marriages work out. The divorce rate is in decline too.

Sorry dude but the amount of stories i read about women '' just looking around'' was curious '' i want some male friends'' then end up sleeping with them stories really does not help at all you just cannot trust them.. or the famous i was ''lonely in my marriage'' so i slept with Chad. Im not saying all women are like this but in reality the ones in my age are really like this and the newer gen are far worse

 

[Deleted member 1159]

My cousin died in a car crash once. You'll never see me get in one of those death traps!

...seriously, know who you're with and don't rush into things and you'll be fine. Yes, some marriages turn out really shitty, but I hardly think they go that way as a rule.

I got married at 28 after being with her for 3 years. We both were college grads, had good jobs, have similar goals in life, and there were no red flags to make me think twice about it. You don't have to really feel like you're rolling the dice on marriage if you take the time and really know the person first, and second you don't ignore the serious personality issues or drawbacks.

OP made some mistakes. Learn from them, don't just write off ever being in a long-term committed relationship.

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

That's not how odds work.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Sorry dude but the amount of stories i read about women '' just looking around'' was curious '' i want some male friends'' then end up sleeping with them stories really does not help at all you just cannot trust them.. or the famous i was ''lonely in my marriage'' so i slept with Chad. Im not saying all women are like this but in reality the ones in my age are really like this and the newer gen are far worse

But you're wrong. Your anecdotal stories, while true, doesn't change the fact that most first time marriages succeed. Way more people stay married than get divorced. The divorced rate gets skewed because people who get divorced once are highly likely to get divorced again so the number of divorces is composed of a lot of repeat offenders.

Plus, you also said there was nothing to be gained from it and you're wrong there too. There is a ton to be gained from it and I showed as an example.

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

I've been with my SO for 10 years now, we have a joint bank account, share bills, and have 2 kids. We do everything a married couple would do. What's the benefit of a govt document saying we're married?

On the flip side there's a 75% chance your life is significantly better. Under your line of thinking, if you had a 75% chance of winning the lottery, would you not because of the 25% chance you'd lose the money on the ticket?

Also, you might want to look up common law marriage. Legally, you might be bound to the same things as if you filed for marriage already. The benefit the government document gives you is legal rights such as visitation, estate, tax breaks, and other things. You gain things with that document if you already didn't get them from common law marriage.

 

[shanshan310]

Sorry dude but the amount of stories i read about women '' just looking around'' was curious '' i want some male friends'' then end up sleeping with them stories really does not help at all you just cannot trust them.. or the famous i was ''lonely in my marriage'' so i slept with Chad. Im not saying all women are like this but in reality the ones in my age are really like this and the newer gen are far worse

You know all of these anecdotes and stories go out the window when you meet a real, flesh and blood human being with feelings, get to know them, fall in love, become best friends and legitimately trust them right? Unless you literally can't trust anyone out of fear that they'll hurt you, this sounds like some crazy sexist crap :/

 

[Deleted member 1159]

But you're wrong. Your anecdotal stories, while true, doesn't change the fact that most first time marriages succeed. Way more people stay married than get divorced. The divorced rate gets skewed because people who get divorced once are highly likely to get divorced again so the number of divorces is composed of a lot of repeat offenders. .

Case in point: my sister has been divorced twice.

So in my family, 3/4 kids have successful marriages, but only 3/5 marriages have been successful. And, because I think it's unlikely she'll fix some of the underlying problems which led to her divorces, I bet a third marriage would fail as well.

It's not that you've got a 25% chance of getting a divorce in your first marriage, you've just got to A) not be a fuckup and B) not marry a fuckup, which aren't all that hard at all if you're a mature adult.

 

[Keri]

Also, you guys should keep in mind that the OP's ex-wife isn't the primary reason the OP is being ordered to pay as much as money, as he is. It's the 3 children he had with her, that's driving his post-divorce costs up, because he's paying support for each one. The spousal support he's being ordered to pay is limited to 3 years (less than half the length of the marriage) and is only a fraction of his monthly payments. It's having children that's really the most expensive decision the OP made, not the marriage itself.

 

[Paracelsus]

My father went through this, but after all the procedures my mother actually has more cash to spend than he does on a monthly basis, all while not having kids by her side and being 100% in the wrong. I strongly suggest leaving the country to some place where you can put your working skills to use and where american law cannot be upheld. Screw the system over, it's not worth to burn your one life away, as good as it must be for you to see your kids.

 

[robochimp]

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

I've been with my SO for 10 years now, we have a joint bank account, share bills, and have 2 kids. We do everything a married couple would do. What's the benefit of a govt document saying we're married?

You miss out on a number of financial benefits when it comes to inheritance and survivor benefits.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kateashford/2014/09/26/deciding-not-to-get-married/#577232273626

 

[Nipo]

You miss out on a number of financial benefits when it comes to inheritance and survivor benefits.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kateashford/2014/09/26/deciding-not-to-get-married/#577232273626

And they've been together so long a court could decide it is a common law marriage anyway.

 

[Matt]

My father went through this, but after all the procedures my mother actually has more cash to spend than he does on a monthly basis, all while not having kids by her side and being 100% in the wrong. I strongly suggest leaving the country to some place where you can put your working skills to use and where american law cannot be upheld. Screw the system over, it's not worth to burn your one life away, as good as it must be for you to see your kids.

People keep suggesting this. It's insane.

 

[Chiclets]

You know all of these anecdotes and stories go out the window when you meet a real, flesh and blood human being with feelings, get to know them, fall in love, become best friends and legitimately trust them right? Unless you literally can't trust anyone out of fear that they'll hurt you, this sounds like some crazy sexist crap :/

Like i said before Not all are like this.. My friends have been screwed over and over. My cousin lost his kids , he can never see them again. In university my roomates would be going out with this one women comes back the next day he caught her making out with some other guy not to mention the countless stories you read on the internet. All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce. and the amount of available options to both sexes facilitates this. Women at my workplace show interest in me i ignore knowing in the future its just going to end in disappointment.

 

[CrocMother]

I was married less than 3 years; no kids. There was no abuse or anything like that; I just really fell out of love for a variety of reasons and left my wife. She said "well you paid for everything, so I guess you get everything" and I told her "I plan on helping you out."

A few weeks passed and neither of us had filed, then I get served papers randomly. It was full of lies, massive demands beyond my means, and she expected spousal support for years. It made no sense to me; no kids.. she was laid off from her job and I'd already been paying for her schooling since before we were even married.. none of my debt was listed, whereas she ltierally listed a credit card debt for me to pay that she had brought into the marriage and I had helped pay down, etc. Even her lies completely contradicted each other; she claimed I told her not to work and that I wanted her to be a house wife... but then she put in the divorce that she wanted me to pay for her to go to college for 2 more years... because.. she had been in college that I'd been paying for for 2 years.

Went to a lawyer, a good one, and he essentially told me that I had 2 choices.

1) Try to reason with her to get it lowered slightly, but still pay her far more than what should be the legal settelement.
2) Pay a laywer 10's of thousands of dollars, be embroiled in a lawsuit for years, and probably still have to pay her a good chunk of the money because of how female-centric the system is.

I opted for option 1. We haven't seen each other or spoken on the phone since the day she served me those papers. She basically chose to lose me as a friend forever so she could get some money out of me. She even got a bunch of shit off of me that I'd paid for before I even met her.. simply because she refused to budge on them and knew I wouldn't want to play hardball with her.

Felt like shit; in the end it was over $100k worth of cash and goods. For a 2.5 year marraige with no kids..

Honestly it's all rather sexist against women; I understand the concpet when it comes to kids particularly if the woman ends or forgoes a career in order to be more available for childcare.. but with no kids involved why in the world would a woman need tons of cash for a divorce for such a brief marriage? It's because the system basically treats them like children not adults.

What...the...fuck...?!?!?!?!?!

 

[robochimp]

And they've been together so long a court could decide it is a common law marriage anyway.

Common law marriages don't exist in the US, he could be in a country where they do, I guess.

 

[Matt]

Like i said before Not all are like this.. My friends have been screwed over and over. My cousin lost his kids , he can never see them again. In university my roomates would be going out with this one women comes back the next day he caught her making out with some other guy not to mention the countless stories you read on the internet. All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce. and the amount of available options to both sexes facilitates this. Women at my workplace show interest in me i ignore knowing in the future its just going to end in disappointment.

Also insane.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Common law marriages don't exist in the US, he could be in a country where they do, I guess.

That's not true. Several states in the US acknowledge common law marriage.

Like i said before Not all are like this.. My friends have been screwed over and over. My cousin lost his kids , he can never see them again. In university my roomates would be going out with this one women comes back the next day he caught her making out with some other guy not to mention the countless stories you read on the internet. All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce. and the amount of available options to both sexes facilitates this. Women at my workplace show interest in me i ignore knowing in the future its just going to end in disappointment.

The text here implies that you're young and surrounded by young and immature people. As people grow older, and more responsible, a lot of this immature crap goes out the window. Granted some people never mature too.

Also no matter what you say, the stories you show are in the minority.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Ive heard nothing but bad things from divorces when the woman was a stay at home mom. It was enough for me to not even consider dating someone who had that idea in their head even though i could afford it. If my wife decided she wanted to call it quits with me she would end up owing me alimony or child support big time.

At the end of the day in the eyes of the government marriage is nothing more than a business agreement. You have to protect your assets. You cant leave your assets out to be finagled by someone who has absolutely nothing to lose.

 

[besada]

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

I've been with my SO for 10 years now, we have a joint bank account, share bills, and have 2 kids. We do everything a married couple would do. What's the benefit of a govt document saying we're married?

You know that if you split up and she took the kids, you'd still be liable for child support, right? Child support has nothing to so with marriage.

 

[robochimp]

That's not true. Several states in the US acknowledge common law marriage.

Yeah I just looked it up. Three states recognize it for inheritance purposes only, another three recognize them straight up.

 

[Sonicbug]

Get this out to news papers, turn the story against her, the majority's good will will help you immensley.

This is cute. Don't bother, no newspaper is going to bother reporting on this stuff. They won't give a shit and it could get them in legal trouble.

 

[CrocMother]

There's a 25% chance my life could be completely fucked over. I'll pass.

I've been with my SO for 10 years now, we have a joint bank account, share bills, and have 2 kids. We do everything a married couple would do. What's the benefit of a govt document saying we're married?

You're exactly the kind of people who should get married.

If your SO gets really sick or is in a terrible accident you want those visitation rights and right to make medical decisions for her

 

[RK128]

Wow, I'm sorry you are going through so much OP .

Its nuts how the good fathers have the hardest time with divorces while shitty fathers just get away with murder (like my father, doing nothing for my family for years X(). I hope you get everything sorted out with your divorce lawyer and things get better, it sounds really rough what you are going through :'(.

I don't plan on ever getting married or being in a relationship, but its horrible that so many are having horrid times being in relationships and/or being married. I hope I'm wrong thinking this honestly too .

 

[Nipo]

Common law marriages don't exist in the US, he could be in a country where they do, I guess.

They call them different things but cohabitation is often enough to force division of assets in long term relationship. Alimony also isn't out of the questions.http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Live-in+relationship

 

[Chiclets]

That's not true. Several states in the US acknowledge common law marriage.



The text here implies that you're young and surrounded by young and immature people. As people grow older, and more responsible, a lot of this immature crap goes out the window. Granted some people never mature too.

Also no matter what you say, the stories you show are in the minority.

I'm 27 this still happens in my age = why you cant trust them. and it probably goes the other way around.

 

[CrocMother]

The best marriages i've seen are people in their 60s who have been together for 10+ years and don't have any kids together

 

[akira28]

You know that if you split up and she took the kids, you'd still be liable for child support, right? Child support has nothing to so with marriage.

did you just drain all of the color out of his face is what I want to know.

all this time he thought he was safe.

Spoiler

no one is safE@#%

 

[besada]

did you just drain all of the color out of his face is what I want to know.

all this time he thought he was safe.

Spoiler

no one is safE@#%

Depending on which state he's in, he might even be on the hook for alimony.

Palimony is present in the following twenty-eight (28) states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington state, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

 

[The Beard]

Get this out to news papers, turn the story against her, the majority's good will will help you immensley.

Not to diminish the obvious pain the OP is going through in this horrible situation, but what about this story would "newspapers" care about?

Yeah, no news agency is going to pick up a story like this. It's not unique in any way. It literally happens to fathers across the country on a daily basis. This is just the way it is.

 

[akira28]

Depending on which state he's in, he might even be on the hook for alimony.

yo...did not know my state was a Palimony state. goddam. that seems like some California hippy shit, not something a cold, hard-bitten easterner would embrace

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Its really sad to see people get ruined like this. Obviously you need to provide for your kids, and I hope you still love them and will continue to get the CHANCE to be apart of their lives and to provide, but this level of entitlement some relationships has scares me. The fact that because you two made a child, you could become a slave to the lives of both them and the mother, is horrible. There needs to be some sort of law that takes into account of your own well being when the financials of these are taken into consideration.

 

[Jenov]

Depending on which state he's in, he might even be on the hook for alimony.

LOL

Looks like all you guys saying you're never getting married because of so and so laws need to consider changing countries all together.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm 27 this still happens in my age = why you cant trust them. and it probably goes the other way around.

27 is still on the young side. You just happen to hang around a more immature crowd. I got engaged about that age. Everyone I know has pretty much gotten married and out of the ton of marriages I know, only one has gotten divorced. Going by my anecdotal evidence like you, by all accounts, marriage is a huge success and almost nobody gets divorced. In fact people with kids don't ever get divorced. That's using your methods.

The best marriages i've seen are people in their 60s who have been together for 10+ years and don't have any kids together

Citation?

 

[riotous]

For the record part of the reason why the amount my ex got was so high was because my income was realy high. It was all still very unfair to me, I'm confident in that.

She played hardball and it put me in a situation where I really did have 2 choices; both of which would have cost me a ton of money.

For instance since I was the one that wanted to end it, and she didn't want to at all.. and would have stayed with me even after the divorce proceedings started.. she easily argued that I should be responsible for her legal fees. My lawyer said the courts would probably back that; so it was a strategy on her lawyers part to purposefully list a ton of bogus assets that should be split... for everything false that was listed I'd have had to pay my lawyer to argue against it and her lawyer for any counter argument. Every single time you ask a lawyer to argue something for you they have to do paperwork and possibly show up in court. *cash register sounds*

I'll be fine too; for a few years it sucked. I was working to pay a mortgage on an underwater house almost devoid of furniture and to send my ex a $3k check every month. But I'm out of it, my house is full of furniture again and I'm happy lol. I was partly responsible for the situation and had reasons to feel guilty for what I did to my ex wife (marrying her, and then leaving her like that was a real mindfuck for her).. so she "got me back." If anything it helped me deal with the guilt I felt about what I did to her; even stevens lol.

 

[Straight Edge]

All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce.

Lol is that all?

 

[riotous]

Lol is that all?

lol

 

[riotous]

I'm 27 this still happens in my age = why you cant trust them. and it probably goes the other way around.

I have a freind who ruthlessly cheated on his ex wife; she even ended up catching him naked with a girl when he was hiding out in a condo they owned and were selling after a night of drinking.

She still would have stayed with him, and was really broken by the whole thing.

She was more than fair in the divorce; she asked for nothing really. She also contributed a lot financially during the marriage. They did a non-lawyer courthouse split and neither had any disagreement with how they split the things they owned.

I have another friend who has full custody of his child; the courts sided with him (in California no less) in the divore proceedings. She pays him a small amount of child support and still has a ways to go before she might be able to get partial custody.

The system favors women a lot of times; but it's not always unfair. And women aren't always unfair, and men aren't always fair. Women have plenty of custody horror stories too.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

This thread is getting really gross. Way too many people referring to women as 'them' 'they' etc. as if they were A. on some sort of opposing team to all men, and B. taking away any individualization by claiming that all women are the same.

Also, no less than 10 people who have told this guy to flat out abandon his children and flee the country, thus becoming a deadbeat dad and also breaking the law.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Izuna]

Like i said before Not all are like this.. My friends have been screwed over and over. My cousin lost his kids , he can never see them again. In university my roomates would be going out with this one women comes back the next day he caught her making out with some other guy not to mention the countless stories you read on the internet. All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce. and the amount of available options to both sexes facilitates this. Women at my workplace show interest in me i ignore knowing in the future its just going to end in disappointment.

This is an incredibly depressing post and is very, very wrong. Where do you live?

 

[prag16]

Like i said before Not all are like this.. My friends have been screwed over and over. My cousin lost his kids , he can never see them again. In university my roomates would be going out with this one women comes back the next day he caught her making out with some other guy not to mention the countless stories you read on the internet. All i'm saying is that relationships are a farce. and the amount of available options to both sexes facilitates this. Women at my workplace show interest in me i ignore knowing in the future its just going to end in disappointment.

You're a sad cynical man. Or you surround yourself with delinquents. Or some combination thereof. Sorry dude. How old are you? Better days are likely ahead if you can lose the chip on your shoulder.

EDIT: Saw you said you're 27. Well then I don't know what to tell you? Meet better people and get a better attitude?

I'm in a happy 9 year marriage and none of my close friends/family have any marital issues at all. Even the more nutty of my relatives and in laws.

The degradation of values among millennials is probably a legit issue, but there are plenty of well adjusted people out there. Just need to find them.

 

[Straight Edge]

75k = $6250 per month before taxes. Approximately $4875 after taxes. You're paying a fair $500 per child.