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[Prodyhig]

We've been speculating for many days about what this new Microsoft device will be like.

I'm new here and haven't started a thread yet, so I thought this was the perfect time.

When Microsoft calls Helix a console, I think they're not lying, because Helix will indeed run console games, but they'll be Xbox One/Series games... not future games.

Those future games will be PC games. And why do I think that?

Let's imagine a third-party developer like Capcom is going to release the next Resident Evil, and they release a version for "Helix" and, obviously, a version for PC.

How do you translate that duality in a device to the end consumer?

You have a native Helix version and a PC version at the same time... which can be sold on Steam or the Windows Store.

Even for the developer, it would be pointless work knowing that the version customers would mostly buy would be the Steam version (due to the store's favoritism).

So why make a native Helix version?

It makes no commercial sense.

 

[DenimDevil]

I believe there will still be an Xbox version, sold on the Xbox store, optimized for the Helix architecture. Xbox may also up their rewards system for buying on the Xbox store. I have a huge Xbox library and I never used Steam so why would I buy the Steam version?

 

[March Climber]

Even if by some small chance they do this split you're thinking of, Xbox will absolutely need to figure out how to 100% legally merge their console and PC stores into one store. As of now some games are still split and 'PC Gamepass' is still it's own separate thing.

That must end, or else it would be a nightmare for this hybrid.

 

[Codes 208]

I think itll essentially be the xbox rog ally in console form, but with the added benefit of BC with your xbox 360-series games

 

[playbignbox]

I think it's just a matter of having an "optimized" version targeting Helix, a version that already downloads the shader cache and doesn't allow the user to modify settings beyond those selected by the developers. This would be suitable for those who just want a 100% compatible plug-and-play experience without worries.

But they also need to give the user the option to "unlock" the game settings if they want something different from the "optimized" version by the developers. And if the game is purchased on Steam, Epic, and other stores, the user wouldn't have access to this "optimized" version either.

 

[Pokedot]

The Helix architecture will be very close to a PC that it would be minimal work for a studio to make a PC version of a game be compatible with Helix. Therefore, I believe all Helix games will be essentially PC games run through the Xbox SDK but have optimized settings for Helix sort of how Steam Deck games get verified. Then there will be something like Proton/Wine that can translate (not emulate) legacy XSX games to Helix with little to no performance loss.

Of course games will still be made for XSX architecture since the console will still be around for a while, but there will be also be a Helix version of the game which uses the PC version as the base.

 

[Self High Five]

It's a PC with a dedicated chip for Xbox compatibility

I believe there will still be an Xbox version, sold on the Xbox store, optimized for the Helix architecture. Xbox may also up their rewards system for buying on the Xbox store. I have a huge Xbox library and I never used Steam so why would I buy the Steam version?

It's not any more of an Xbox version then buying the game on Steam. At this point we have no idea the level optimization there will be for the Helix chip. There are quite a few PC games with Steam deck profiles but at the end of the day they're PC games.

 

[Prodyhig]

It's a PC with a dedicated chip for Xbox compatibility



It's not any more of an Xbox version then buying the game on Steam. At this point we have no idea the level optimization there will be for the Helix chip. There are quite a few PC games with Steam deck profiles but at the end of the day they're PC games.

So that's basically what I'm saying.

Future Helix games are PC games, the same versions distributed by Steam.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah, it seems they are literally making the pc and console dev environment exactly the same. No more coding to the metal like traditional consoles.

Theres probably some rough guidance they provide and then Devs will probably tweak the settings until they have a more or less locked frame rate and then say " there's your helix profile"

I'm more interested to see if they will allow the end user to choose pc setting with a label of "at your own risk"

It might train people to understand pc settings much earlier in life. I dunno.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, it seems they are literally making the pc and console dev environment exactly the same. No more coding to the metal like traditional consoles.

I remember the days when PlayStation developers used to love the PS1 and its tools & libraries, which didn't allow them to code to the metal or when PlayStation fans used to bash the PC tech of the upcoming OG Xbox saying Xbox gamers will be spending more time defragging the hard drive than playing games and how Halo was a 'Grass' game.

Mind you SONY used to make out that the PS2 was a Linux PC to dodge tax LOL

 

[Dorfdad]

Kinda a given no? The console will play console games, but your pc will also play console games. The way I'm interrupting it is that pc will be able to download Xbox games via their store and will run in a sandboxed / emulation. New games will all be pc ports because they are one in the same now.
The only difference is your console will. Ow work with mouse keyboard and have a desktop mode alah steam deck or dev mode for Xbox currently.

 

[PeteBull]

I will be upfront about this, since xbox project helix has its own dedicated apu, aka cpu and gpu on same die, combined, it means it has 0 upgradeability, so huge advantage even mini pc's have is scratched off right away.
Ppl diseagreeing with eachother across intwerwebs if helix is pc or console dont realise it will have likely if not all then many of both console and pc flaws at the same time.

Console flaws:
1) Small form factor aka very constrained powerdraw/cooling possibilities
2) Paid online
3) Only 1 storefront aka monopoly=crazy high prices
4) No upgradeability
5) Cant go trully high end even if u got money/desire for it

PC flaws:
1) No low lvl coding to the metal
2) Crazy high price aka bad value of hardware
3) All kinds of h4ckz0rz in multiplayer games
4) Usually tons of bugs/harder to iron out performance
5) Stuttering UE5 games, sometimes its "just" traversal stutter, sometimes its much much worse and prevalent
6) Devs will treat ur device like annoying mosquito when it gets older/isnt up to snuff aka at/above base console lvl

BTW- gabecube will have tons of those flaws too, so its gonna be irrelevant from the get go.

 

[Fafalada]

I remember the days when PlayStation developers used to love the PS1 and its tools & libraries, which didn't allow them to code to the metal

There's a pervasive misconception that 'coding to the metal' must mean machine instruction access else 'it isn't real'. And even on that level - PS1 in practice offered that kind of 'metal' access to most of its hardware - the one exception was the GTE, but that's like... 1/10th of the system, at most. More importantly - data layout optimisations are all the more important on consoles (even more so back then) and nothing stood in the way of doing that 'to the metal' on PS1 either.

New games will all be pc ports because they are one in the same now.

I think this part is what people take issue with primarily. But yes.
Amusingly MS has been circling this drain for some 12 odd years or so (I forget when the whole UWP craze started when it was all supposed to get unified).

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

My money is on Helix games being simply Microsoft app store games (like the games Microsoft is selling on there right now as "PC games"). They might get a nice Helix sticker on the store page or whatever but technically they're PC games from the Microsoft app store. One binary for PC and Helix devices.

 

[bitbydeath]

If a non-Helix PC plays Xbox One/Series games does that make it a console?

If playing console games is the only requirement for a PC to become a console then every PC is technically a console.

 

[Team Andromeda]

There's a pervasive misconception that 'coding to the metal' must mean machine instruction access else 'it isn't real'. And even on that level - PS1 in practice offered that kind of 'metal' access to most of its hardware - the one exception was the GTE, but that's like... 1/10th of the system, at most. More importantly - data layout optimisations are all the more important on consoles (even more so back then) and nothing stood in the way of doing that 'to the metal' on PS1 either.


I think this part is what people take issue with primarily. But yes.
Amusingly MS has been circling this drain for some 12 odd years or so (I forget when the whole UWP craze started when it was all supposed to get unified).

I remember the days when assembly heads used to say to use C was to read a book, but to use assembly, was to learn the machine. In todays word with CPU inthe Ghz and compilers so good and fast, coding to the metal, isn't practical or makes that much of a difference anymore? .


I'm hoping for the new Xbox to be more like the old OG Xbox, which was a PC in Box. Just much more open without the need to mod it to use multimedia functions and like with ROG Alley X, where you just hold down a button to switch into desktop Windows mode. Also, for it to have top-class BC support and bring more OG Xbox and 360 games to BC, starting with Singularity... since Xbox owns ABK

 

[J Required]

When Microsoft calls Helix a console, I think they're not lying, because Helix will indeed run console games, but they'll be Xbox One/Series games... not future games.

I thought that was widely known, hence the "Xbox is dead" moniker.

 

[Shubh_C63]

If Helix and PC versions are the same thing given the new architecture, that could mean two things.
Either publishers are basically forced to make a PC port for their game if they want it running on Helix (Forced because making PC ports were traditionally harder than making console versions)

Or Publishers have the same tool as old-xbox before but Helix helps them create PC ports even faster. Old xbox tools to new Helix tools to new PC ports. (which is unlikely because it flies against the logic of Helix and PC are one and the same)

All depends on how easy is for developers to make the Helix version compared to traditional old-Xbox version. If Helix version proves as difficult as PC ports than every Xbox third party release will be delayed.