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N64 FPGA Turbo Core rev 2 is out; a faster, more powerful N64 that takes slideshow games and brings them to playable territory

VGEsoterica

Member
Not to knock Turok 2 or 3 but 3 especially on original N64 hardware was more like a slide show than an actual game...especially in high res mode. Same with Legacy of Darkness and Perfect Dark. And now with the newest MiSTer FPGA Turbo N64 core you get better framerates on classics like GoldenEye too. Which absolutely nobody would complain about.

Turok 3 is now totally a playable experience IMO vs a stock N64 which while pretty can just absolutely CHUG

 

nkarafo

Member
This isn't anything new btw, unless we are talking only about FPGAs.

Emulators do this by default since forever because their timing wasn't accurate, lol. But modern emulators also have more options to mess with, like overclocking.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
Hope the future Analogue console can use this core, otherwise I see myself getting a Mister FPGA. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
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Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
I was under the impression that the DE10 nano wasn’t powerful enough to “perfectly” emulate the N64. How are we getting boosted clocks in this?
 

clem84

Gold Member
I remember turok 2, in hires mode especially, being worse than 3. I could be wrong. Safe to say both had terrible framerate.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
I was under the impression that the DE10 nano wasn’t powerful enough to “perfectly” emulate the N64. How are we getting boosted clocks in this?
There's some games like Conker's Bad Fur Day and Jet Force Gemini that can randomly crash since the DE10 isn't fast enough for the random reads those games do, most of the games(over 95%?) work as they should.
 

nkarafo

Member
WTH? Why not just play on emulator then? But I guess it's a cool hobby project
A 100% complete FPGA N64 core would be great actually. Unfortunately, this one can't be completed in this current FPGA chip, or that's what i heard.

At it's current state it's behind Ares in accuracy (timings) and Mupen64/PJ64 in compatibility (these can run 100% of N64 games nowadays). I suppose if you don't have a PC to run Ares or Mupen+Parallel RDP and you are stuck with a Pi or phone, the Mister is the better option.
 
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Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
WTH? Why not just play on emulator then? But I guess it's a cool hobby project
FPGA is much more accurate than software emulation, assuming the chip is fast enough for the hardware.
 
I was under the impression that the DE10 nano wasn’t powerful enough to “perfectly” emulate the N64. How are we getting boosted clocks in this?

It won't perfectly emulate the N64, but it still does a pretty good job considering the hardware limitations the developer ran into.
 
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Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
That may be true for most cores but not for the N64 one.
Right, which is a power issue for the mister FPGA. But for older hardware it’s much better than softwares emulation, by all accounts I’ve seen.
 

nkarafo

Member
FPGA is much more accurate than software emulation
Nope, that's a myth.


That may be true for most cores but not for the N64 one.
Neither for the Saturn core. Or the SNES core. Probably the PSX and Genesis cores as well. It's true for some standalone arcade board FPGAs though.

But for older hardware it’s much better than softwares emulation, by all accounts I’ve seen.
In what way exactly is it much better?
 
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Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
It won't perfectly emulate the N64, but it still does a pretty good job considering the hardware limitations the developer ran into.
I’m just curious, but what does that end up meaning in a practical sense? It seems like some games work better than original hardware, while some don’t work at all? Are there any glitches in games? Especially graphical ones? (That’s mainly why I don’t like software emulation.)
 
I’m just curious, but what does that end up meaning in a practical sense? It seems like some games work better than original hardware, while some don’t work at all? Are there any glitches in games? Especially graphical ones? (That’s mainly why I don’t like software emulation.)
Some games have problems like Conker's Bad Fur Day.
 

nkarafo

Member
I’m just curious, but what does that end up meaning in a practical sense? It seems like some games work better than original hardware, while some don’t work at all? Are there any glitches in games? Especially graphical ones? (That’s mainly why I don’t like software emulation.)

FPGAs are the exact same thing as emulators though. Some of the inner workings and methods of emulating a system differ and it's more efficient to do it on an FPGA, but the accuracy and compatibility still depends on the developer knowledge, experience and skill.

This particular FPGA have reached a "wall" with the current chip where the developer can't improve it much further. It needs a better FPGA chip to go any further, along with more research and testing. Because the last few issues (that are mostly about timings and making some of the harder to emulate games work) are also the toughest and that's why you don't have a perfectly accurate N64 emulator yet.

The core's current accuracy/compatibility status is not much better than any current emulator. It's actually kinda worse in fact.

The bugs and inaccuracies you will find are very similar to older software emulators like Mupen/PJ64. The games that do work may have timing and speed issues. So it's not only the few games that crash or don't boot, a very large amount of games that do work are not running at the correct speed, even in the non-turbo core. If you want correct timings, you are better of with emulators such as Simple64 and Ares, both more accurate since the developers are focusing on fixing timings, specifically, for a few years now.

The "Turbo" mode is basically the same thing as the "counter-per Op" option in Mupen (and there is another one for PJ64). It messes with the timings even further to push the games with unlocked frame rates to run smoother.
 

nkarafo

Member
It allows retro gamers to buy something else they don't need so they can post pictures of it for other nerds on the internet.
FPGAs have their use.

They are more compact than any PC powerful enough to do as accurate emulation.
They are more efficient, power wise. A regular CPU needs to draw more power to deliver the same amount of emulation accuracy.
They don't have an OS, so they don't have the additional input lag one can cause.
It's easier to use an old CRT TV with them.

Other than that, yeah, i agree with you.

And it's a problem with youtube retro collectors specifically. They know nothing about emulation because they tend to only use things they can have in physical form. So if someone tells them emulators suck and FPGAs can cure cancer, they will believe it. Which is how this "FPGAs are more accurate"myth actually came to be. It was the Analogue marketing that started it.

It's even worse when you see youtubers trying to do FPGA vs Emulation comparisons themselves (because content) and you instantly notice they don't know any better because they rarely even use accurate emulators (or at least accurate settings) in such comparisons. 99% of the time they use the first emulator that comes after a google search or they just compare them with whatever emulators the Raspberry Pi uses (which is the weakest device one can use, so the emulators are always performance based) and maybe some equally crappy android or Chinese cheap devices.
 
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FPGAs have their use.

They are more compact than any PC powerful enough to do as accurate emulation.
They are more efficient, power wise. A regular CPU needs to draw more power to deliver the same amount of emulation accuracy.
They don't have an OS, so they don't have the additional input lag one can cause.
It's easier to use an old CRT TV with them.

Other than that, yeah, i agree with you.

And it's a problem with youtube retro collectors specifically. They know nothing about emulation because they tend to only use things they can have in physical form. So if someone tells them emulators suck and FPGAs can cure cancer, they will believe it. Which is how this "FPGAs are more accurate"myth actually came to be. It was the Analogue marketing that started it.

It's even worse when you see youtubers trying to do FPGA vs Emulation comparisons themselves (because content) and you instantly notice they don't know any better because they rarely even use accurate emulators (or at least accurate settings) in such comparisons. 99% of the time they use the first emulator that comes after a google search or they just compare them with whatever emulators the Raspberry Pi uses (which is the weakest device one can use, so the emulators are always performance based) and maybe some equally crappy android or Chinese cheap devices.

FPGAs are better for latency too.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
FPGA is much more accurate than software emulation,
FPGA are emulators.
All is said in that link.
Mad The Internet GIF by MOODMAN
 

simpatico

Member
It allows retro gamers to buy something else they don't need so they can post pictures of it for other nerds on the internet.
It's tough getting an emulator on a proper display in many situations. Have RGB SCART is a really big win. They even have expansion cards that hook directly up to arcade machines. There's a ton of uses. Hell I'd take a pimped out FPGA box over any current gen console.
 
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Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
FPGA are emulators.
I didn’t say they weren’t 🤷‍♀️

Anyway I’ll take your guys’ and experts’ word for it that there are better software emulators out there, I have neither the technical knowledge nor interest to dispute you. Like I said: I was speaking about accounts I’ve seen, so they could be wrong.
 
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