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[Hubbl3]

Wow, what absolute fucking scum. I can't say I'm surprised that these 4 dipshits haven't been disciplined for this though...

I do hope that at a minimum, their names get published in an article so that a quick Google search from a potential employer or school (assuming they're intelligent enough to get into college) comes up for them to see.

 

[Ducarmel]

If ultimately proven guilty name and shame them kick them out of school and off the team and hope everything in the world that is bad happens to them.

 

[midramble]

b.. bu.. but don't confront me, It wont help me like you more or help relations.

 

[TestOfTide]

Hah! Yep. This is why I rarely buy the "racism is just ignorance" bs. It's an anomaly to live in the modern era and know zero about US history particularly about horrid occurrences like slavery and lynching. Yet people still latch on to those and return to them again and again to terrorize black people. What is a black student supposed to teach to another student who knows what lynching is, knows what it stands for and its impact and still uses it as a way of tearing them down and stripping them of their dignity? What magic words are they supposed to say to make someone who would do this and hide behind a "prank bro" excuse truly regret their actions? How much more does the student have to assimilate and compromise until acts like this don't even pass through his fellow students minds? Until he's seen as equal and doesn't have to fear going to school with people like this anymore? This is just one slice of the boy's life and one moment in the amount of racist actions he's bound to face in our country. Forget the fact that there are stories like this that occur every year in the lives of kids who haven't even left high school.

I would be careful with that attitude. There are definitely many people who aren't just ignorant but are, as you are saying, outright bigoted, and those outright bigots need to be shamed and humiliated in every legal and nonviolent way possible until they stop being openly bigoted (they will always still be bigoted, but the idea is that they become uncomfortable being open about it).

BUT, there are definitely people who are ignorant and/or misinformed AND, more importantly, are absolutely open to learning things that contradict their assumptions. Shaming and humiliating those that do in fact have the potential of being good people is counterproductive.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I would be careful with that attitude. There are definitely many people who aren't just ignorant but are, as you are saying, outright bigoted, and those outright bigots need to be shamed and humiliated in every legal and nonviolent way possible until they stop being openly bigoted (they will always still be bigoted, but the idea is that they become uncomfortable being open about it).

BUT, there are definitely people who are ignorant and/or misinformed AND, more importantly, are absolutely open to learning things that contradict their assumptions. Shaming and humiliating those that do in fact have the potential of being good people is counterproductive.

Again, I HIGHLY doubt that the person who uses symbolism, rhetoric and tactics that are inseparable from black genocide and terrorism against black communities is ignorant or misinformed. I also HIGHLY doubt that anyone that takes pleasure in spiritually, physically or emotionally damaging a person of a different skin color using targeted attacks is at all open to becoming a better person. When the opposition is interested in breaking down or stripping the dignity from my individual person because of factors that I can't change, I don't have to be careful. All I have to do is watch out for myself.

I also don't know how you divined shaming or humiliating from what I posted. I have no interest in shame or humiliation or acknowledging them in any way shape or form. The people who did this simply need to be removed from school with quickness and the victim needs to be fervently apologized to by the administration.

 

[TestOfTide]

Again, I HIGHLY doubt that the person who uses symbolism, rhetoric and tactics that are inseparable from black genocide and terrorism against black communities is ignorant or misinformed. I also HIGHLY doubt that anyone that takes pleasure in spiritually, physically or emotionally damaging a person of a different skin color using targeted attacks is at all open to becoming a better person. When the opposition is interested in breaking down or stripping the dignity from my individual person because of factors that I can't change, I don't have to be careful. All I have to do is watch out for myself.

I also don't know how you divined shaming or humiliating from what I posted. I have no interest in shame or humiliation or acknowledging them in any way shape or form. The people who did this simply need to be removed from school with quickness and the victim needs to be fervently apologized to by the administration.

Reread my post. I never said that those kids that used that noose were simply ignorant, thought I will say that considering how young they are, there is a decent chance of a least a couple of them being open to learning new information if they ever get the chance.

Now their parents are very VERY likely to be outright bigots. And I am not saying that the outright bigots should be handwaved away as simply "ignorant". I am saying that those parents need to be shamed and humiliated until they don't even feel comfortable expressing their bigotry to their own families.

And I am not asking you to have to do the heavy lifting of shame and humiliation, especially because the shame and humiliation will sting these bigots much harder if it's coming from people of their own race. I personally am doing my part when I can to make any bigot I meet feel demoralized to the point of not being comfortable being openly bigoted.

Next time you respond, please make sure to understand 2 things:

1) I am agreeing with you that we shouldn't just handwave away ALL racism as simply ignorance.

2) Though most of them probably are outright bigots, you would be foolish to assume there aren't a significant portion who could potentially be fixed of their bigotry through education. We even had a thread recently about a guy who successfully turned the son of Stormfront's founder from a racist to good person.

 

[Hugstable]

Video said they still didn't receive any disciplinary action, is this for real? They put a noose around a kid at school and didn't get expelled, let alone even fucking suspended? I've seen people expelled from schools for way less than this... This is depressing as fuck, hope something is done.

 

[Syder]

Incidents like these will increase countrywide in the US if Trump is elected. Don't let racists have their views reinforced.

 

[metalslimer]

They didn't learn that behavior themselves. Those parents deserve some harsh scrutiny.

 

[Earthpainting]

Even if the blatant racism angle is swept under the rug once again, can the people in charge at least agree that putting a noose around someone's neck constitutes as a psychotic threat, and they are a danger to their fellow students? This is 100% unacceptable, and this should be made crystal clear to both the culprits and their community.

I hope the victim doesn't have to carry this with him for the rest of his life, and that he can get the support he needs.

 

[Dude Abides]

Poor kids suffering from an acute case of rural economic anxiety.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Video said they still didn't receive any disciplinary action, is this for real? They put a noose around a kid at school and didn't get expelled, let alone even fucking suspended? I've seen people expelled from schools for way less than this... This is depressing as fuck, hope something is done.

Mississippi.

 

[Heroman]

A school in Mississippi.huh?

 

[EdibleKnife]

Reread my post. I never said that those kids that used that noose were simply ignorant, thought I will say that considering how young they are, there is a decent chance of a least a couple of them being open to learning new information if they ever get the chance.

Now their parents are very VERY likely to be outright bigots. And I am not saying that the outright bigots should be handwaved away as simply "ignorant". I am saying that those parents need to be shamed and humiliated until they don't even feel comfortable expressing their bigotry to their own families.

And I am not asking you to have to do the heavy lifting of shame and humiliation, especially because the shame and humiliation will sting these bigots much harder if it's coming from people of their own race. I personally am doing my part when I can to make any bigot I meet feel demoralized to the point of not being comfortable being openly bigoted.

Next time you respond, please make sure to understand 2 things:

1) I am agreeing with you that we shouldn't just handwave away ALL racism as simply ignorance.

2) Though most of them probably are outright bigots, you would be foolish to assume there aren't a significant portion who could potentially be fixed of their bigotry through education. We even had a thread recently about a guy who successfully turned the son of Stormfront's founder from a racist to good person.

I don't know how much clearer I can be about this but I'm not interested in shame or humiliation nor am I interested in education. As a minority, my life has been one big lesson for society that I have value despite what society deems as the unacceptable trait of black skin. I've been through many moments of having to explain to people why it's abhorrent to treat me as inferior due to my differences consciously and unconsciously. It's a task I take upon myself out of necessity for survival. I've had to teach my peers, I've had to teach people much older than me. I've had to give lessons to co-workers and to teachers themselves. I've had to teach people much smarter than me. Fixing bigotry through education is not a luxury for me; it's required of me to survive which too many people seem to forget. And it is also something that I can opt out of. Same for this student. The people who did this to him should be separated from his life whether its the fault of their parents or what have you, they've shown that they have a proclivity for not being safe people to be around if you're a minority and more than likely not safe in general. If they need to be educated on why what they did was horrid, they can find it elsewhere with people who have the time or the patience. In my eyes, the only priority in this situation is creating a better environment for the student harmed by their actions no matter what their mindset was at the time. They aren't worth the effort of shaming or educating. All I want is for them to be ostracized and they can realize their errors or not once they're separated from civilized society.

 

[HStallion]

Maybe they were just helping him try out a new tie?

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Racism will end when these people die off

 

[LiquidSword]

Racism will end when these people die off

Ha when these 16 year olds die? That's not how this works

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Ha when these 16 year olds die? That's not how this works

That's the joke

 

[TestOfTide]

I don't know how much clearer I can be about this but I'm not interested in shame or humiliation nor am I interested in education. As a minority, my life has been one big lesson for society that I have value despite what society deems as the unacceptable trait of black skin. I've been through many moments of having to explain to people why it's abhorrent to treat me as inferior due to my differences consciously and unconsciously. It's a task I take upon myself out of necessity for survival. I've had to teach my peers, I've had to teach people much older than me. I've had to give lessons to co-workers and to teachers themselves. I've had to teach people much smarter than me. Fixing bigotry through education is not a luxury for me; it's required of me to survive which too many people seem to forget. And it is also something that I can opt out of. Same for this student. The people who did this to him should be separated from his life whether its the fault of their parents or what have you, they've shown that they have a proclivity for not being safe people to be around if you're a minority and more than likely not safe in general. If they need to be educated on why what they did was horrid, they can find it elsewhere with people who have the time or the patience. In my eyes, the only priority in this situation is creating a better environment for the student harmed by their actions no matter what their mindset was at the time. They aren't worth the effort of shaming or educating. All I want is for them to be ostracized and they can realize their errors or not once they're separated from civilized society.

In all your anger you seem to be failing to read what I actually said:

- I never said that you should have to be the one with all the burden of fixing this problem.

- I never said that we should force this victim to stay in contact with these perpetrators.

- I said that society, particularly the good and potentially good people who would otherwise be bystanders, should be changing the ignorant and misinformed into good people and shaming and humiliating the outright bigots into hiding.

I'm going to politely ask that you please stop ASSUMING what I am saying and actually read carefully what I am saying before you go responding with an angry rant (and I would appreciate it if you don't assume that me calling it an "angry rant" doesn't mean I am saying it is unjustified, because I absolutely understand how very justified you are in how you feel about this), because your responses show you haven't fully understood what I said.

Also, please explain to me what the difference is between ostracizing someone and shaming/humiliating someone in practical terms, particularly when I said that the goal of said shaming and humiliation is to make them go back into hiding.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Racism will end when these people die off

I was gonna post "when old people die out" but you got the jist of it in your post.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I would be careful with that attitude. There are definitely many people who aren't just ignorant but are, as you are saying, outright bigoted, and those outright bigots need to be shamed and humiliated in every legal and nonviolent way possible until they stop being openly bigoted (they will always still be bigoted, but the idea is that they become uncomfortable being open about it).

BUT, there are definitely people who are ignorant and/or misinformed AND, more importantly, are absolutely open to learning things that contradict their assumptions. Shaming and humiliating those that do in fact have the potential of being good people is counterproductive.

It's not counterproductive. Shame and humiliation can be excellent motivators, and anyone who's merely "misinformed" will be willing to be better people after getting called out for their racist acts.

On the other hand, people who, say, put a fucking noose around a kid's neck, won't be open to learning and self-betterment. It would be a waste of time and effort trusting to get through to them by gentle, coddling means.

EDIT: What is the least egregious act that you would deem outright bigotry? Answer carefully, pls

 

[TestOfTide]

Ha when these 16 year olds die? That's not how this works

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those kids ends up growing up to regret what the did and become an enemy of their parents' ideology.

The people that we are waiting for to leave society permanently would probably be those kids' parents.

It's not counterproductive. Shame and humiliation can be excellent motivators, and anyone who's merely "misinformed" will be willing to be better people after getting called out for their racist acts.

On the other hand, people who, say, put a fucking noose around a kid's neck, won't be open to learning and self-betterment. It would be a waste of time and effort trusting to get through to them by gentle, coddling means.

Reread what I said. When I categorize the two distinctive groups, the main difference between the two is whether or not they are open to new information that contradicts their assumptions.

And I am not saying these racist kids shouldn't be punished. He'll read my first post in this thread where I said I wanted them to be tried as adults.

I am merely explaining the idea that the best way to fix the issue of bigotry in this country is to change those that are open to change and make those not open to change go into hiding where they won't be able to easily influence those that are open to change.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those kids ends up growing up to regret what the did and become an enemy of their parents' ideology.

The people that we are waiting for to leave society permanently would probably be those kids' parents.

It's their ideology now too.

 

[TestOfTide]

It's their ideology now too.

For now it is, but are you really going to argue that people don't have their worldviews change from what they were during their teenage years?

 

[Ivan 3414]

Lock all perpetrators up.

 

[TestOfTide]

EDIT: What is the least egregious act that you would deem outright bigotry? Answer carefully, pls

So we measure how much someone can change by what they do as a teenager?

I've said some stupid shit when I was younger, but because I was open to new information, I eventually stopped being ignorant and misinformed.

I think the issue we are having here is that you are focusing on the bigotry of the actions whereas I am
more focused on the bigotry of the person.

So to answer your question, it's not about one action so much as it is about whether or not that person is willing to learn new information that contradicts their assumptions.

 

[EdibleKnife]

In all your anger you seem to be failing to read what I actually said:

- I never said that you should have to be the one with all the burden of fixing this problem.

- I never said that we should force this victim to stay in contact with these perpetrators.

- I said that society, particularly the good and potentially good people who would otherwise be bystanders, should be changing the ignorant and misinformed into good people and shaming and humiliating the outright bigots into hiding.

I'm going to politely ask that you please stop ASSUMING what I am saying and actually read carefully what I am saying before you go responding with an angry rant (and I would appreciate it if you don't assume that me calling it an "angry rant" doesn't mean I am saying it is unjustified, because I absolutely understand how very justified you are in how you feel about this), because your responses show you haven't fully understood what I said.

Also, please explain to me what the difference is between ostracizing someone and shaming/humiliating someone in practical terms, particularly when I said that the goal of said shaming and humiliation is to make them go back into hiding.

I'll stop assuming what you're saying when yo stop assuming that I'm angry. I'm not even sure why you quoted me in the first place when I made it clear in that original post that I don't think there's merit in classifying people who utilize nooses as pointed attacks against black peers are either misinformed or potentially good. Even a glancing familiarity with the noose requires an understanding of its historical use particularly in American history.

There's effort involved in shaming which isn't expended in ostracizing. By which, I mean I'm not interested in learning these peoples names. I'm not interested in emailing their bosses about what their children did in school. I'm not interested in making them infamous to some and sympathetic to those that think they same way they do. All I'm interested in is a letter that tells their families to find another school to put their children in because this one will not accept them any longer. From there, they're free too believe that life is unfair and that the school removed them for a simple prank, move to a new school and act as though nothing happened or they're free to re-evaluate why their kids have been expelled and discuss among themselves why it was wrong and grow on their own.

 

[Thorgal]

If ultimately proven guilty name and shame them kick them out of school and off the team and hope everything in the world that is bad happens to them.

while these people definitely deserve punishment , you might wanna rethink the bolded part and what that really entails .

 

[K.Jack]

Should be charged with assault and a hate crime. Disgusting.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Well these kids have 21 more years before they're seen as adults so they have plenty of time to change. The victim should forgive them and take the time to educate them on why their behavior is wrong, teachable moment to be sure. MLK said progress is slow and steady, and you can only fight hate with love.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

The parents of the black teen need to sue the school if those kids aren't expelled.

That is fucking abysmal.

 

[Do Better]

The principal passes the buck to the superintendent who can't be reached for comment. It must be nice to have a leadership position without having to actually be a leader.

 

[TestOfTide]

I'll stop assuming what you're saying when yo stop assuming that I'm angry. I'm not even sure why you quoted me in the first place when I made it clear in that original post that I don't think there's merit in classifying people who utilize nooses as pointed attacks against black peers are either misinformed or potentially good. Even a glancing familiarity with the noose requires an understanding of its historical use particularly in American history.

There's effort involved in shaming which isn't expended in ostracizing. By which, I mean I'm not interested in learning these peoples names. I'm not interested in emailing their bosses about what their children did in school. All I'm interested in is a letter that tells their families to find another school to put their children in because this one will not accept them any longer. From there, they're free too believe that life is unfair and that the school removed them for a simple prank, move to a new school and act as though nothing happened or they're free to re-evaluate why their kids have been expelled and discuss among themselves why it was wrong and grow on their own.

My apologies for assuming you were angry. It's difficult to guess the tone of a post, so me (and I bet many others as well), tend to just assume that when a post has giant paragraphs that it leans on the side of emotional. Again, my apologies for making that assumption.

I absolutely agree that these kids should be expelled from the school. If you read an earlier post in this thread you will see that I even am open to the idea of trying these racists as adults.

I was more just emphasizing the idea that when dealing with racists (which again, I agree that it shouldn't be just your job to do, but the job of everyone who isn't a bigot), it works best to separate people who do or say hateful things into 2 distinctive categories:

1) The ignorant and misinformed (people who have incorrect views but are open to learning new information that contradicts their assumptions): these are people that CAN be educated. Some will take longer than others, but they can be turned into good people.

2) The outright bigoted (people so entrenched in their bigotry that they reject any and all information that contradicts their assumptions): these people will never stop being bigots and the best you can hope for is that they get shamed and humiliated to the point that they go into hiding, both because we won't have to deal with them as much and because it makes them less influential on that first category.

Well these kids have 21 more years before they're seen as adults so they have plenty of time to change. The victim should forgive them and take the time to educate them on why their behavior is wrong, teachable moment to be sure. MLK said progress is slow and steady, and you can only fight hate with love.

What about both punishing these kids (even trying them as adults) AND having people step in to educate them and pull them away from their parents' bigoted influences.

 

[Cyframe]

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those kids ends up growing up to regret what the did and become an enemy of their parents' ideology.

The people that we are waiting for to leave society permanently would probably be those kids' parents.



Reread what I said. When I categorize the two distinctive groups, the main difference between the two is whether or not they are open to new information that contradicts their assumptions.

And I am not saying these racist kids shouldn't be punished. He'll read my first post in this thread where I said I wanted them to be tried as adults.

I am merely explaining the idea that the best way to fix the issue of bigotry in this country is to change those that are open to change and make those not open to change go into hiding where they won't be able to easily influence those that are open to change.

What are you even saying here or attempted to argue previously? Read the context of the situation and read as to why Black people in this thread are uncomfortable at the very least. Maybe we could have a conversation with regards to handling racism, but in this case, is bordering on condescending and being willfully obtuse, even if that isn't your intention.

Now talking about this case, I have to agree with someone in this thread who said they should be charged with attempted murder or aggravated battery. These children shouldn't be allowed in any school in our country, and if they want to get an education they should have to earn their GED. Other kids should not have to go to school with them. This action, lynching is beyond the pale.

I went through horrible and violent things at my high school for being African American, but a simulated lynching would have absolutely ruined me. I don't want to hear that these kids didn't know what they were doing. I don't care about their education either. If you steal educational opportunities away from other kids, you don't deserve your own.

 

[Johndoey]

They aren't 35 yet.

I thought it was late 50's now? Or does Trump get special permission.

 

[Count Dookkake]

This is seriously effed up.

Harsh penalties must be enacted.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I thought it was 52 now?

Wasn't he 59?

 

[TestOfTide]

What are you even saying here or attempted to argue previously? Read the context of the situation and read as to why Black people in this thread are uncomfortable at the very least. Maybe we could have a conversation with regards to handling racism, but in this case, is bordering on condescending and being willfully obtuse, even if that isn't your intention.

Now talking about this case, I have to agree with someone in this thread who said they should be charged with attempted murder or aggravated battery. These children shouldn't be allowed in any school in our country, and if they want to get an education they should have to earn their GED. Other kids should not have to go to school with them. This action, lynching is beyond the pale.

I went through horrible and violent things at my high school for being African American, but a simulated lynching would have absolutely ruined me. I don't want to hear that these kids didn't know what they were doing. I don't care about their education either. If you steal educational opportunities away from other kids, you don't deserve your own.

Just so we are clear, my very first post in this thread was about how I hope these racist kids get tried as adults.

I absolutely think these kids should be punished severely. But I also think that we can ALSO change teenagers into having different worldviews.

My apologies if it came off as me saying that I want us to completely forgive these kids and let them go unpunished.

 

[m_shortpants]

Racism is over, right?

Fuck this. This is a direct result of Trump's rhetoric and fuck all attitude.

Ridiculous.

 

[Glass Shark]

The kids and their parents should both be held responsible. Sickening.

 

[Tubobutts]

Just a few more years until all these old racists die off.

 

[IamDodongo]

holy crap

What is wrong with people?

 

[TestOfTide]

The kids and their parents should both be held responsible. Sickening.

Best way to do that would be to try them as adults and offer them a plea deal where they get their sentences reduced if they can prove that this was their parents' idea.

 

[Altazor]

this is just locker room banter, haha. Boys will be boys, that black kid should man up - or maybe, just let it slide, you know? Shit happens, boo hoo. Sometimes kids to stupid things, so stop with the outrage culture, ok? You can't even engage in a bit of classroom pranking without the PC police ruining everything F U N. Fucking SJWs.

Spoiler

/s, in case you can't read sarcasm

I'm sure there'll be some facebook posts just like that. Fucking despicable act. So much for "when racism ended".

 

[EdibleKnife]

My apologies for assuming you were angry. It's difficult to guess the tone of a post, so me (and I bet many others as well), tend to just assume that when a post has giant paragraphs that it leans on the side of emotional. Again, my apologies for making that assumption.

I absolutely agree that these kids should be expelled from the school. If you read an earlier post in this thread you will see that I even am open to the idea of trying these racists as adults.

I was more just emphasizing the idea that when dealing with racists (which again, I agree that it shouldn't be just your job to do, but the job of everyone who isn't a bigot), it works best to separate people who do or say hateful things into 2 distinctive categories:

1) The ignorant and misinformed (people who have incorrect views but are open to learning new information that contradicts their assumptions): these are people that CAN be educated. Some will take longer than others, but they can be turned into good people.

2) The outright bigoted (people so entrenched in their bigotry that they reject any and all information that contradicts their assumptions): these people will never stop being bigots and the best you can hope for is that they get shamed and humiliated to the point that they go into hiding, both because we won't have to deal with them as much and because it makes them less influential on that first category.

There's no need to apologize. I apologize if I came off in my writing as angry but I'm honestly not. This kind of conversation is second nature at this point. And to your point, I'm fine with that kind of categorization. However, I also think that those categories present with distinctly different types of behaviors. For someone who unconsciously thinks that someone from the ghetto part of town might be a criminal, there might be hope. There probably is reason enough to sit a person like that down and explain their bias in assuming a minority from X area is a criminal rather than just a normal person. Those are simple moments of implicit bias rearing its head and making people say foolish things. On the other hand, for your second category you have people like the teacher last year who post how black people cause so much trouble and would be better off being segregated again. In a case like this you have a person who is completely aware of the history of the disenfranchisement of minorities and simply doesn't care. Furthermore, they're spurned to anger and praise of one of the most horrendous times in US history due to a simple unruly pool party. This type of person, despite any kind of apology, I believe is beyond help and are in positions where they can enact great harm on minorities not just due to things they think subconsciously and accidentally spew but because of the things they believe consciously and with conviction all of the time and with every interaction they have with other people in society. And I classify the people within this story under your second category as well.

 

[daveo42]

They should be tried and committed under federal hate crime laws as adults and thrown in prison for life. No way you get to "prank" or "joke" your way outta this shit. Fuckin' lock up the damn parents too if they try and defend any of this.

 

[Cyframe]

Just so we are clear, my very first post in this thread was about how I hope these racist kids get tried as adults.

I absolutely think these kids should be punished severely. But I also think that we can ALSO change teenagers into having different worldviews.

My apologies if it came off as me saying that I want us to completely forgive these kids and let them go unpunished.

I do see education as a tool, etc, but in this specific instance, I believe that they knew 100% what they were doing. You can't lynch someone by accident.

For me, I'm disparaged by this current circumstance, more so than angry. A child being forced into a simulated lynching, it's just unconscionable.

 

[Numb]

Some news you can't brace yourself and are shaken no matter.
Truly outrageous.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Why am I not surprised this is Mississippi

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Some news you can't brace yourself and are shaken no matter.
Truly outrageous.

Seriously. Shit has had me pretty pissed all morning..