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[ManaByte]

...from Tom DeLay:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050601/ap_on_sc/nasa_moon_2

SPACE CENTER, Houston -
NASA's new administrator and Texas Republican Rep. Tom DeLay (news, bio, voting record) said Tuesday the space agency will have the necessary funding to implement
President Bush's vision to send astronauts back to the moon and to Mars.

"We have the money to do good things," said Michael Griffin, who has visited at least seven of NASA's centers since he was appointed in April. During a two-day visit at the home of human spaceflight, he spoke with astronauts, flight directors and other top administrators.

Griffin said the agency has received a steady flow of funding that when adjusted for inflation is comparable to the funding the agency had when it first sent astronauts to the moon during the Apollo program of the 1960s and early 1970s.

"You will find that NASA received as much in the last 16 years of its existence as in the first 16," he said. "In my judgment, we can go to the moon. We can go to Mars. We can't do them quite as quickly as we did during Apollo, but we can do it."

DeLay said NASA is a priority — even in a time of war and tightening budgets.

"We will provide the funding necessary to get us where we want to go," the House majority leader said. "And hopefully we can do it in an expedited manner."

NASA's shuttle fleet has been grounded since 2003 when a large chunk of foam insulation broke off Columbia's fuel tank during launch and gashed the left wing, dooming the spacecraft and its crew during re-entry. All seven astronauts were killed.

The agency hopes to return space shuttle Discovery to orbit in mid-July. Discovery was slated to return to space in late May, but the danger of ice and sensor-and-valve problems prompted NASA to postpone the launch.

The new administrator said he foresees no reason why Johnson Space Center's mission would be significantly altered and hopes to maintain the balance that has been reached between robotic and human space missions.

"If you ask anyone in this country, 'Do you believe that the United States should cede the moon to say the Chinese, Europeans, Russians, whoever?' I bet you the answer would be, 'No,'" he said.

Griffin said he believes a majority of people "want to make sure that as humankind expands into space the United States is there in the forefront."

"That is why this is important," he said. "It's about where human beings go and what they do when they get there and what that means to the future of the human race."

 

[funkmasterb]

Does this mean Olimario gets another beach house? :lol

 

[Jonnyram]

Finally. They should have done this years ago instead of wasting money on invading other countries and shit. Still, I guess they need all that oil to blast the shuttle off into orbit (or am I mistaken?)

 

[Macam]

Well, kudos to that much being done, but I think continuing The Voyager's funding alongside repairing the Hubble Telescope ranks up there as among two of space's top priorities. The moon and Mars are great, but we shouldn't necessarily phrase this in the context of some sort of nationalistic competition, such as "[ceding] the moon".

 

[Hitokage]

Sorry, I'd rather not have NASA used as a part of any money laundering scheme.

 

[maynerd]

M....A....R....S

MARS BITCHES!

 

[gofreak]

"If you ask anyone in this country, 'Do you believe that the United States should cede the moon to say the Chinese, Europeans, Russians, whoever?' I bet you the answer would be, 'No,'" he said.

What does that even mean?

So damn possessive. The moon isn't anyone's.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It clearly means Bush is threatening any country that even tries to go to the moon that we'll go to war over it!

 

[NintendosBooger]

RED ROCKS! YAY-EE-YAY-EEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, fuck those Ruskies. I mean, we only just beat them to the moon the first time right? If we don't go again now, we'll lose it for sure.

And if the Ruskies don't get there first, that bloody Wallace will get there and stake a claim on all the good cheese. We can't afford the potential damage to our domestic cracker industry.

 

[Scrow]

they'd better get a human to mars and back in my lifetime or i'll be PISSED!

 

[Zensetsu]

they'd better get a human to mars and back in my lifetime or i'll be PISSED!

Yeah, so true. I expect more than that, but that is the absolute minimum.

 

[olimario]

If it takes 10 or 15 years to get back to the moon, don't blame NASA. With the funding the receive now we'll be old before we see a man on Mars.

 

[mrklaw]

If it takes 10 or 15 years to get back to the moon, don't blame NASA. With the funding the receive now we'll be old before we see a man on Mars.

what do you mean 10 or 15 years? They did it in 1969 - they could probably rebuild Apollo in a couple of months from lego. Heck, Matlock did it out of junk!

 

[olimario]

what do you mean 10 or 15 years? They did it in 1969 - they could probably rebuild Apollo in a couple of months from lego. Heck, Matlock did it out of junk!

One would think, but a suprising amount of technology has to be rebuilt and research has to be re-researched.
NASA going back to the moon means NASA basically doing it from scratch again like they did in the 60s.

 

[Bregor]

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm a big fan of the manned space program, but so many projects are introduced and get funding only to be cancelled after just 2-3 years that it has become clear that the initial funding is essentially meaningless.

 

[olimario]

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm a big fan of the manned space program, but so many projects are introduced and get funding only to be cancelled after just 2-3 years that it has become clear that the initial funding is essentially meaningless.

Ding Ding Ding!
For NASA to be successful they need a lot of consistent funding. Going to outerspace is NOT cheap. Actually doing stuff there is even more expensive.

 

[Manics]

they'd better get a human to mars and back in my lifetime or i'll be PISSED!

Expect to be pissed.

 

[mrklaw]

Have they done 'the other things' yet?

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things

 

[Lucky Forward]

Meanwhile...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.telescope31may31,1,6595367.story

Rising cost threatens Webb space telescope
Scaled-back version raises doubts; Hundreds of Maryland jobs at stake; $1 billion in overruns, one-year delay projected

By Frank D. Roylance
Sun Staff
Originally published May 31, 2005

A billion dollars in projected cost overruns have thrown the $3.5 billion James Webb Space Telescope project into a crisis that could threaten its mission and hundreds of Maryland jobs associated with it.

Astronomers designed the 6.8-ton observatory to fly a million miles from the Earth and begin searching in 2011 for the feeble light from the first stars and galaxies that emerged from the darkness after the Big Bang.

But with mirror manufacturing under way and $820 million spent, Webb's problems are increasing and scientists are concerned about its future. So are Maryland politicians.

Webb's development is managed at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt and at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. Without Webb, many scientific and engineering jobs at the institute would disappear after the Hubble Space Telescope's mission ends, as early as 2007.

In an effort to pare expenses, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration asked the Webb team to assess the consequences of launching the telescope with a smaller mirror and one less instrument than it was designed to carry. Webb scientists responded that such a scaled-back Webb might not be worth flying at all.

"We agreed that if the telescope gets scaled back significantly, it will be almost impossible to see that 'first light,'" said Rogier A. Windhorst, an astrophysicist at Arizona State University.

 

[djtiesto]

Honestly, this is one of the only things Bush has done since he was elected in 2000 that I actually like. We're working to get the contract for the Crew Exploration Vehicle for this (makes sense since we developed the LEM)

 

[Scrow]

Expect to be pissed.

i'm 23, lets say average life expectancy is 85 (seems reasonable enough?). that's 62 years they've got to do it. i think it's feasible.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Fuck the moon, Fuck Mars, fix where I live right now ya dumbfucks.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

This is great news to me. I'm all for space exploration, but this is a hard sell to the average American who can't see past the end of their street, let along out into space. To a lot of people, this is a huge waste of money when we have lots of other issues to deal with right here on Earth. I generally argue that it's a good thing that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella didn't tell Columbus that we had other problems to deal with at home, but it's just a hard thing for the average person to buy into.

Edit: See MAF's post above. I rest my case.

 

[Kai Dracon]

This is great news to me. I'm all for space exploration, but this is a hard sell to the average American who can't see past the end of their street, let along out into space. To a lot of people, this is a huge waste of money when we have lots of other issues to deal with right here on Earth. I generally argue that it's a good thing that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella didn't tell Columbus that we had other problems to deal with at home, but it's just a hard thing for the average person to buy into.

Edit: See MAF's post above. I rest my case.

The problem with space exploration right now is that it is the ultimate short-term fiasco/long term payoff project EVER.

It's hard and taxing and overly expensive for virtually no practical return in the short and even medium term.

It's absolutely, positively vital to this species of talking monkey in the long, long term. Every move made now, every action, is another pebble put in the most important foundation mankind will ever build.

But, I'm also not concerned about nationalistic bullshit like saying you're "ceding" the moon to OMG COMMIES if somebody else goes there next. This is about the human race, not one puddle of it with delusions of grandure. I don't care who gets into space and what flag they're flying. Flags change, empires fall, politics shift, and yes, even religions dissapear. What matters is people getting into the Out There.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Space exploration is a bit of a sham. But compared to lots of the junk the military is spending on, I'd rather NASA get the money for peaceful scientific research. Like shaving some money off by hobbling the Webb telescope is gonna compensate for hundreds of millions dumped into a fruitless war. PEACE.

 

[UltraMarioMan]

We will NEVER solve all our problems on Earth. Maybe if we can spread out into the solar system a bit over time it will help. Not to mention the benefit of nearly unlimited mineral resources floating around out there.

 

[borghe]

to those who say "fix things on earth first before going into space" umm... why can't they do both? I don't want to get into a debate on the quality of the administration, but the space stuff is VERY important as we humans (yes even people right here on this thread most likely) continue to behave in a way which is slowly destroying our planet. Colonization, new or additional resources, research, all things that can be gained by going forward with space research and exploration. How is it in any way better to sideline that stuff in exchange to solely work on domestic policy? So then when domestic policy is fixed within the next 7 years and we are THEN ready to go to space but China, or Russia, or Korea now have stake on some valuable discovery in space, that is when we should go?

It's like people who say less time should have been spent on the art for a video game and more time on gameplay. It's not like the artists are working on the gameplay and not like NASA is working on fixing the education system. fund both.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Finally. They should have done this years ago instead of wasting money on invading other countries and shit. Still, I guess they need all that oil to blast the shuttle off into orbit (or am I mistaken?)

You are mistaken. There's plenty of oil used by NASA, but it's for trucking parts over highways and sending boats out to pick up debris. Most spacecraft are launched with liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. Fossil fuels are generally not energetic enough to be used for space travel. There are some applications involving kerosene, but it's rarely used.

Also, DeLay is a liar. The current funding for NASA is nowhere near what they had for the Apollo program, and until they see a massive increase in funding, we won't be getting anywhere near the moon, much less Mars. I love Bush's plan, but it's meaningless without the Benjamins.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

The problem with space exploration right now is that it is the ultimate short-term fiasco/long term payoff project EVER.

It's hard and taxing and overly expensive for virtually no practical return in the short and even medium term.

It's absolutely, positively vital to this species of talking monkey in the long, long term. Every move made now, every action, is another pebble put in the most important foundation mankind will ever build.

But, I'm also not concerned about nationalistic bullshit like saying you're "ceding" the moon to OMG COMMIES if somebody else goes there next. This is about the human race, not one puddle of it with delusions of grandure. I don't care who gets into space and what flag they're flying. Flags change, empires fall, politics shift, and yes, even religions dissapear. What matters is people getting into the Out There.

I agree with most of what you've said, but have you ever seen the list of consumer products that have been a result of research at NASA? There has been a lot of practical return on the investment.

 

[happyfunball]

Thank god they are funding trips to Mars while lowering funding for cancer research!

It's like a fuckin 10yr old trekkie is in charge of this govt.

 

[borghe]

Thank god they are funding trips to Mars while lowering funding for cancer research!

It's like a fuckin 10yr old trekkie is in charge of this govt.

yeah, because the two are balanced against each other.. idiots......

 

[Dan]

to those who say "fix things on earth first before going into space" umm... why can't they do both?

I think people would be a lot more understanding of grand space expoits if there was any evidence this administration was doing anything to improve domestic life beyond some manipulation of oil prices. Unfortunately there really isn't any, and that's from where the frustration stems.

There's no reason we can't do both, but it becomes a bit much when all this money is being funneled into wars, nation building and longterm space operations.

 

[milanbaros]

As much as I belive in sorting the World's problems out first the stopping of space research will not accelerate this and if the human race is to continue forever then this has to be done and there is no time like the present to start.

 

[Scrow]

just wait till space exploration becomes profitable

the tourist thing will be one source of income, but i'm thinking more along the lines of mining for various minerals/ores

 

[happyfunball]

yeah, because the two are balanced against each other.. idiots......

The fuck they aren't balanced against each other. It is the gov't allocating money to different areas of research(ie. NIH, NASA, whatever..). Now obviously, Bushie doesn't believe that NIH research is as important as STAR TREK and STAR WARS, since these seem to be the only programs that he is throwing billions of research dollars into. NIH funding, on the otherhand, has decreased dramatically over Bush's time and the results are showing now at universities. Although I would love to see people on Mars, I mean really, what the fuck is the point right now. We went to the moon 4 decades ago and what else have we done there? What, other than national pride, did we accomplish by going to the moon? I don'tsee any big plan for what we do when we get there. Anyway, tired of writing......

 

[Phoenix]

Wait a minute, wasn't NASA about to cancel projects last month due to cost overruns from other projects?

 

[ManaByte]

The fuck they aren't balanced against each other. It is the gov't allocating money to different areas of research(ie. NIH, NASA, whatever..). Now obviously, Bushie doesn't believe that NIH research is as important as STAR TREK and STAR WARS, since these seem to be the only programs that he is throwing billions of research dollars into. NIH funding, on the otherhand, has decreased dramatically over Bush's time and the results are showing now at universities. Although I would love to see people on Mars, I mean really, what the fuck is the point right now. We went to the moon 4 decades ago and what else have we done there? What, other than national pride, did we accomplish by going to the moon? I don'tsee any big plan for what we do when we get there. Anyway, tired of writing......

Do you have any idea how much medical research is done through research NASA does just with the shuttle program and the ISS?

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html#health

s
Health and Medicine - NASA Spinoffs

DIGITAL IMAGING BREAST BIOPSY SYSTEM - The LORAD Stereo Guide Breast Biopsy system incorporates advanced Charge Coupled Devices (CCDs) as part of a digital camera system. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently. Known as stereotactic large-core needle biopsy, this nonsurgical system developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.

BREAST CANCER DETECTION - A solar cell sensor is positioned directly beneath x-ray film, and determines exactly when film has received sufficient radiation and has been exposed to optimum density. Associated electronic equipment then sends a signal to cut off the x-ray source. Reduction of mammography x-ray exposure reduces radiation hazard and doubles the number of patient exams per machine.

LASER ANGIOPLASTY - Laser angioplasty with a "cool" type of laser, caller an excimer laser, does not damage blood vessel walls and offers precise non-surgical cleanings of clogged arteries with extraordinary precision and fewer complications than in balloon angioplasty.

ULTRASOUND SKIN DAMAGE ASSESSMENT - Advanced instrument using NASA ultrasound technology enables immediate assessment of burn damage depth, improving patient treatment, and may save lives in serious burn cases.

HUMAN TISSUE STIMULATOR - Employing NASA satellite technology, the device is implanted in the body to help patient control chronic pain and involuntary motion disorders through electrical stimulation of targeted nerve centers or particular areas of the brain.

COOL SUIT - Custom-made suit derived from space suits circulates coolant through tubes to lower patient's body/ temperature, producing dramatic improvement of symptoms of multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, spina bifida and other conditions.

PROGRAMMABLE PACEMAKER - Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer. Communicates through wireless telemetry signals.

OCULAR SCREENING - NASA image processing techniques are used to detect eye problems in very young children. An electronic flash from a 35-millimeter camera sends light into the child's eyes, and a photorefractor analyzes the retinal reflexes, producing an image of each eye.

AUTOMATED URINALYSIS - NASA fluid dynamics studies helped development of system that automatically extracts and transfers sediment from urine sample to an analyzer microscope, replacing the manual centrifuge method.

MEDICAL GAS ANALYZER - Astronaut-monitoring technology used to develop system to monitor operating rooms for analysis of anesthetic gasses and measurement of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen concentrations to assure proper breathing environment for surgery patients.

VOICE-CONTROLLED WHEELCHAIR - NASA teleoperator and robot technology used to develop chair and manipulator that respond to 35 one-word voice commands utilizing a minicomputer to help patient perform daily tasks, like picking up packages, opening doors, and turning on appliances.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Arteriosclerosis detection, ultrasound scanners, automatic insulin pump, portable x-ray device, invisible braces, dental arch wire, palate surgery technology, clean room apparel, implantable heart aid, MRI, bone analyzer, and cataract surgery tools.

 

[happyfunball]

Do you have any idea how much medical research is done through research NASA does just with the shuttle program and the ISS?

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html#health

This all appears to be more like "applied" science rather than "basic" science which is where the majority of NIH funding goes. The basic science is the foundation for what applied science is based on. Also, the majority of this appears to be physical science, not biological science.

 

[Triumph]

Haha, what a complete and total fucking waste of resources. This reminds me of that David Cross bit...

Poor schlep: Excuse me, but my daughter has asthma because we live next to a refinery, and with the lowpaying jobs that my wife and I work we can't afford to buy her medicine. Is there anything you can do to help?

Evil politician: Oh, I'm so sorry... we're going to send a robot to the moon.

 

[Phoenix]

Haha, what a complete and total fucking waste of resources. This reminds me of that David Cross bit...

Yep, because learning is stupid - you heard it here first folks.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I loves the space exploration.

 

[Macam]

Haha, what a complete and total fucking waste of resources. This reminds me of that David Cross bit...

So the moral of the story is evil politician = someone who doesn't support medicine handouts?

 

[Bregor]

Maybe now they can rescue The Lonely Astronaut. (Old, but fits the thread.)

 

[AB 101]

Lets get this baby back up.

Worked great.

 

[Triumph]

Yep, because learning is stupid - you heard it here first folks.

Oh come off it. I'm all for learning, but not at the expense of the welfare of our populace. Honestly, I wish we would shave some of our bloated military budget off.

And Macam- any politician that would deny a child necessary medication so we could send a fucking robot to the moon is evil in my book.

 

[Macam]

And Macam- any politician that would deny a child necessary medication so we could send a fucking robot to the moon is evil in my book.

I'm merely weary of such word twisting and the implications of it, but I'll leave it at that.

 

[sans_pants]

Oh come off it. I'm all for learning, but not at the expense of the welfare of our populace. Honestly, I wish we would shave some of our bloated military budget off.

And Macam- any politician that would deny a child necessary medication so we could send a fucking robot to the moon is evil in my book.

so basically put all funding into medicine for little children

 

[Mashing]

Haha, what a complete and total fucking waste of resources. This reminds me of that David Cross bit...

Bah, David Cross comes off sounding like a bleeding heart IMO. We don't need anymore of those.

 

[Triumph]

so basically put all funding into medicine for little children

Can you show me where I said that? Oh you can't. Have a nice glass of STFU to go with your stupidity.