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NASA looking at possibility to speed up return to Manned flights.

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A

antonz

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https://time.com/4673290/nasa-moon-astronauts/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter

Now, however, the moon is making headlines again. On Wednesday, NASA's acting administrator Robert Lightfoot circulated a memo to employees hinting at the possibility of flying astronauts aboard the space agency's new heavy-lift rocket and crew vehicle as early as 2018. What's more, the mission would not just be to low-Earth orbit, but to lunar orbit — coming during the 50th anniversary year of the Apollo 8 mission, when astronauts first achieved that singular exploratory feat.
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The rocket, known prosaically as the Space Launch System (SLS), has been in slow-walk development since 2004, as has the Orion spacecraft — a sort of souped-up, 21st-century Apollo capsule. According to the current schedule, the first mission, known as EM-1 (for Exploration Mission 1) would be an unmanned flight, launched sometime in 2018. The spacecraft would spend three weeks flying to and orbiting the moon, and then return home, demonstrating the deep-space flight-worthiness of all of the hardware. EM-2, a manned mission, would follow three to five years later and would repeat EM-1's flight profile, this time with astronauts aboard.
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So instead of a Mid 2020s return to manned space flight by NASA they are looking to see if they could accelerate plans to as soon as next year. Would be great if NASA could take the step. Would help them get back on track and with SpaceX expecting man launches next year the space program as a whole would be a lot healthier.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
NASA:
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H

Hickbilly Deluxe

Banned
GK86 said:
I would want to get away from Trump asap too.
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Can we keep Trump comments out of threads not Trump related? Shit is getting old.


OT: Would be nice to see NASA speed things up a hit for manned space flights and getting back to the moon. Safety should be paramount though. They don't need another disaster.
 
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GK86

Homeland Security Fail
It is not lost on the White House that a moon program would also be a job creator, benefiting not only mega-contractors like Boeing (the prime builder of the SLS) and Lockheed Martin (which is building the Orion), but subcontractors around the country. The Apollo program was estimated to have meant jobs for a stunning 400,000 people, from the workers on the assembly lines to the three astronauts in the spacecraft.
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That is a huge number. Being a job creator should be reason enough to speed things up.

I really hope NASA one day gets the budget they deserve.
 
C

Cub3h

Banned
Someone tell Trump that America was great when they went to the moon. Maybe that'll goad him into increasing NASA's funding. Maybe someone could hint that CHYYYYYNA is trying to get to the moon first!
 
S

sant

Member
It boggles my mind why NASA and investing in space is never billed as creating jobs and new technologies that benefit everyone. Instead we have candidates from both sides pushing more welfare to get votes instead of actual jobs. The same is true for defence but you get to attach "freedom" to it instead.
 
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GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Cub3h said:
Someone tell Trump that America was great when they went to the moon. Maybe that'll goad him into increasing NASA's funding. Maybe someone could hint that CHYYYYYNA is trying to get to the moon first!
Click to expand...

Considering China is beefing up their space program, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in a dick waving competition with them.

Which is more than fine by me.
 
Spladam

Spladam

Member
Finally, we can restart the golden age of people actually giving a shit about science. The space race inspired so many, and lit the imagination of humanity everywhere, we need this back in a big way.

I'd sign up for the Mars mission.
 
Y

yanipheonu

Member
To be fair, you might be able to sucker Trump into expediting a Mars mission by using his ego.

Convince him he gets to have a Kennedy moment. Getting to Mars a few years earlier would be worth an indulgent Trump speech or two or fifty.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
yanipheonu said:
To be fair, you might be able to sucker Trump into expediting a Mars mission by using his ego.

Convince him he gets to have a Kennedy moment. Getting to Mars a few years earlier would be worth an indulgent Trump speech or two or fifty.
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"We are going to bring all the Mars back that we can carry. It will be a whole lot of Mars that we bring."
 
A

antonz

Member
Gingrich has had some of the more realistic views on NASA. Moon to Mars should be the trajectory rather than fool around with asteroids then Mars. The Moon offers us the chance to perfect in actual space the technology we will rely on with Mars.

So I figured the Moon would renter the equation. That said an accelerated program to get off our asses and back into space is exciting.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Literally zero chance SLS makes next year.

SpaceX will make 2018, with ULA a year after in 2019 in terms of getting US manned flights going as part of the Commercial Crew program.

SLS is basically the space launch vehicle version of vaporware at the moment. There is no political urgency to getting it made.
 
C

CF_Fighter

Member
Fear of Russia getting to the Moon first gave us the first Space Race. China getting there for their first time, possibly building a colony, and getting the jump on Mars will give us the second Space Race. Gotta keep space from going Red! We have to bring democracy to Mars!
 
D

Disxo

Member
yanipheonu said:
To be fair, you might be able to sucker Trump into expediting a Mars mission by using his ego.

Convince him he gets to have a Kennedy moment. Getting to Mars a few years earlier would be worth an indulgent Trump speech or two or fifty.
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Yes please, I hate him but we need something like this in these times.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
antonz said:
Gingrich has had some of the more realistic views on NASA. Moon to Mars should be the trajectory rather than fool around with asteroids then Mars. The Moon offers us the chance to perfect in actual space the technology we will rely on with Mars.

So I figured the Moon would renter the equation. That said an accelerated program to get off our asses and back into space is exciting.
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This isn't really true though. There aren't many things that you can learn from a Moon mission that you can't learn from an asteroid mission. The lack of atmosphere and much lower gravity on the moon don't make it a particularly useful proxy for Mars (especially given the weight requirements for a manned landing practically require a spaceX style system of propulsive landing which SpaceX have proved good at here on earth, an overwhelmingly more challenging environment than either the moon or Mars. The distance to Mars offers significant challenges regarding human habitation in small spacecraft that aren't replicated on the moon (best case scenario sees a trip to Mars and back taking 8 months - for the moon it's about a week). Finally there's the fact that we have been to the Moon already and so whilst it might be fun to go back, and a confidence booster, so to is asteroid stuff and that also had the benefit of being new.

Dan27 said:
Literally zero chance SLS makes next year.

SpaceX will make 2018, with ULA a year after in 2019 in terms of getting US manned flights going as part of the Commercial Crew program.

SLS is basically the space launch vehicle version of vaporware at the moment. There is no political urgency to getting it made.
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Yup, deffo. Ditto Orion. Not only that, but the FH is going to eat it's lunch re: market sector. Congress is gonna wonder why it's still funding SLS when it had the FH just sitting there with almost the same cabability.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
CyclopsRock said:
This isn't really true though. There aren't many things that you can learn from a Moon mission that you can't learn from an asteroid mission. The lack of atmosphere and much lower gravity on the moon don't make it a particularly useful proxy for Mars (especially given the weight requirements for a manned landing practically require a spaceX style system of propulsive landing which SpaceX have proved good at here on earth, an overwhelmingly more challenging environment than either the moon or Mars. The distance to Mars offers significant challenges regarding human habitation in small spacecraft that aren't replicated on the moon (best case scenario sees a trip to Mars and back taking 8 months - for the moon it's about a week). Finally there's the fact that we have been to the Moon already and so whilst it might be fun to go back, and a confidence booster, so to is asteroid stuff and that also had the benefit of being new.
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ESA looks at the moon to build a "village" where everyone can contribute to it. The main thing we can learn from the moon is how building a camp could be like in such distant worlds, harsh conditions and lack of resources and more importantly how everyone is contributing something to sustain or expand the village.
Their proposal to 3D print iglo shaped shells for inflatable habitats is pretty cool imo.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
Moon is interesting for various reasons.

As further base for space missions, basic and applied research in low gravity enviroment, and the moon is the perfect place for observing distant planets, galaxies and other astronomical objects.

In fact a sustainable moon base is more important and useful than a mars mission a la Apollo.
 
K

Krayz

Member
Cub3h said:
Someone tell Trump that America was great when they went to the moon. Maybe that'll goad him into increasing NASA's funding. Maybe someone could hint that CHYYYYYNA is trying to get to the moon first!
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Didn't he divert financing from one department to NASA space exploration? Or something like that.

EDIT: It was the earth research budget he cut, in favor of getting men on the moon.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
For the NASA is it quite easy. In a worst case scenary China can end with the only one with a manned space station and manned moon base, which provide China with a monopol in various areas of science and technology.
And we are talking about a space agency which operates with a budget which is several times smaller than the NASA's. Obama did quite a lot of damage to the NASA with its goalless policy in space related things.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
PdotMichael said:
For the NASA is it quite easy. In a worst case scenary China can end with the only one with a manned space station and manned moon base, which provide China with a monopol in various areas of science and technology.
And we are talking about a space agency which operates with a budget which is several times smaller than the NASA's. Obama did quite a lot of damage to the NASA with its goalless policy in space related things.
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Didn't Obama raised the budget and made competition possible, which sounds very US like and he ultimately had to deal with the cancellation of the space shuttle program, which was at that time just a big money sink and not the appropriate technology for space exploration.
For me, it sounds pretty good actually.
 
M

mclem

Member
GK86 said:
I would want to get away from Trump asap too.
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Maybe he's instigating it. He's taking deportation *really* seriously.

"Now there's this guy I've heard of, an illegal who came into this country and got a decent job working at a newspaper. Never applied for citizenship, just turned up, and taking hard-working jobs away from hard-working Americans (along with his fellow reporter, who dares to be a woman doing a man's job. Disgusting). Clark, his name is...except it isn't, he changed his name to sound more like a normal person, but I'm told by a confidante of my associate Mr. Bannon - some CEO - that his real name is, in fact, Kal-El. Well, 'Clark', we're onto you, and the ICE agents will be arriving at your business to test you out for our new extreme deportation program."
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Ask Russia about their experience with rushing manned missions for the political sake of meeting anniversary deadlines.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
paradise_circus said:
ESA looks at the moon to build a "village" where everyone can contribute to it. The main thing we can learn from the moon is how building a camp could be like in such distant worlds, harsh conditions and lack of resources and more importantly how everyone is contributing something to sustain or expand the village.
Their proposal to 3D print iglo shaped shells for inflatable habitats is pretty cool imo.
Click to expand...

That might be interesting in and of itself - like an advanced ISS - but in terms of "points along the way to Mars", it's still not a useful proxy. Firstly, each "day" on the Moon is about a month long, where as on Mars it's almost the same as on Earth. As such, it's possible that we could plant things on Mars (even hydroponically) that won't require basically giant interior, artificially lit spaces (on Mars they'd still need to be giant and interior, but not artificially lit - a huge drain on energy resources) - and it also means that things on the surface of the moon swing between being super hot and super cold. Mars has all the "ingredients" required to create rocket fuel too, which makes it somewhat more self sufficient and massively increases the payload capacity to the surface.

Again, this is all taking a Mars-centric view. But whilst you're right that it might teach us a bit about building a habitat on a distant planet with harsh conditions and a lack of resources, those conditions and those resources are so different to the conditions and resources of Mars that it doesn't make sense to use the Moon as a "first step" to Mars. It is, in many way, just as complex and difficult, just in different ways.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
paradise_circus said:
Didn't Obama raised the budget and made competition possible, which sounds very US like and he ultimately had to deal with the cancellation of the space shuttle program, which was at that time just a big money sink and not the appropriate technology for space exploration.
For me, it sounds pretty good actually.
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Obama's space policy basically killed various space rockets and the Orion spacecraft. And his shift to the Mars led to a vacuum which is right now getting filled by China, giving China the oppurtunity to close the gap to the USA way faster than expected.

CyclopsRock said:
That might be interesting in and of itself - like an advanced ISS - but in terms of "points along the way to Mars", it's still not a useful proxy. Firstly, each "day" on the Moon is about a month long, where as on Mars it's almost the same as on Earth. As such, it's possible that we could plant things on Mars (even hydroponically) that won't require basically giant interior, artificially lit spaces (on Mars they'd still need to be giant and interior, but not artificially lit - a huge drain on energy resources) - and it also means that things on the surface of the moon swing between being super hot and super cold. Mars has all the "ingredients" required to create rocket fuel too, which makes it somewhat more self sufficient and massively increases the payload capacity to the surface.

Again, this is all taking a Mars-centric view. But whilst you're right that it might teach us a bit about building a habitat on a distant planet with harsh conditions and a lack of resources, those conditions and those resources are so different to the conditions and resources of Mars that it doesn't make sense to use the Moon as a "first step" to Mars. It is, in many way, just as complex and difficult, just in different ways.
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Mars is not the end goal of human space exploration, so it doesn't matter if a mission is somehow useful for a possible manned space mission.
 
A

AP90

Member
paradise_circus said:
Didn't Obama raised the budget and made competition possible, which sounds very US like and he ultimately had to deal with the cancellation of the space shuttle program, which was at that time just a big money sink and not the appropriate technology for space exploration.
For me, it sounds pretty good actually.
Click to expand...

But I loved how the space shuttle could allow for manned repair missions. Hubble would have been broken indefonitely.. The robotic arm and the mobility that the shuttle was able to provide for it was an amazing feat to me.

Edit:
Definitely think NASA needs more funding. A moon base would be a great start for Us/mankind exploration, research and Helium 3 mining (ai/auto driving miners??)

Think having a major goal for manned mars mission would be something positive for the US to rally behind as well.

**Not to mention that all the above would help advance the science and tech field just like the Apollo program did.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
PdotMichael said:
Mars is not the end goal of human space exploration, so it doesn't matter if a mission is somehow useful for a possible manned space mission.
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It certainly isn't the end goal, but it's often cited as a goal, and one that a Moon mission would help attain when I don't think that's true. Fundamentally people are - thanks to Apollo - labouring under the misapprehension that the Moon is kinda of like Mars but easier because it's closer. In some ways it's easier, in some ways it's harder, but in most ways it's different.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
CyclopsRock said:
It certainly isn't the end goal, but it's often cited as a goal, and one that a Moon mission would help attain when I don't think that's true. Fundamentally people are - thanks to Apollo - labouring under the misapprehension that the Moon is kinda of like Mars but easier because it's closer. In some ways it's easier, in some ways it's harder, but in most ways it's different.
Click to expand...

What makes the moon base fundamentally easier would be the option to send help and replacing broken subsystems within weeks if necessary.

It would also, based how large and complex the moon base will end, make future space missions significantly easier.
 
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