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Navalny is still alive? March 26th march in Moscow

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P

Pomerlaw

Member
Moscow police have announced that a rally planned by Russian opposition politician Aleksei Navalny for March 26 is "illegal" and have warned potential participants that their safety could be in danger.

In a statement posted March 23 on a Moscow police website, authorities told potential attendees that "your personal safety may be under threat. The event is illegal."

On March 18, Moscow authorities refused a request from Navalny for permission to hold the protest in central Moscow.

On March 22, he said the authorities had proposed two alternate sites in less-central neighborhoods.

But Navalny rejected the offer and pledged to conduct the rally near the Kremlin, setting up a possible showdown with police.

Organizers have said they hope to hold rallies in 98 cities and towns across Russia.

Moscow authorities said one reason they rejected the rally application was because organizers had scheduled several events at the same time and, therefore, could not ensure the safety of participants and local residents.

Navalny has called for demonstrators to start gathering at 2 p.m. Moscow time on March 26 at "any point on Tverskaya Street" -- a main artery that ends outside Red Square and the Kremlin.

Navalny, who helped lead large antigovernment demonstrations in Russia during 2011 and 2012, said he wants to bring as many as 15,000 people to the streets of Moscow to protest against what he says is rampant corruption among officials close to President Vladimir Putin.

Navalny announced in December that he will run for president in a March 2018 election when Putin is widely expected to seek a new six-year term.

Russian authorities say Navalny will be barred from the ballot if a conviction on charges of financial crimes is upheld on appeal. But he has pushed ahead with his campaign.

Navalny denies any wrongdoing, saying his convictions in two separate cases were politically motivated punishment for his opposition to Putin
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Whether or not you agree with him... This guy has big balls.

http://www.rferl.org/a/moscow-police-warn-navalny-rally/28387301.html
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/...t&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article

21Navalny-master768.jpg


C7WfHZkX4AAsdjG.jpg
 
S

Sickboy007

Member
Just to give an idea of the corruption, this fake oriental palace, next to the fake White House, belongs to Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, who's supposed to earn less than $100k a year.

Shoigu-pad.jpg
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Protests are starting of well, it's nation-wide, in over 80 cities at the moment. I don't have much pics of Moscow march - I don't think it has started off yet (just lots of riot police).

Government is also pulling dumb tricks such as sudden "snow clearance" in areas where the protests/marches are supposed to occur.

c29vYXt.jpg

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P9TdytX.jpg

aB0Bi8W.jpg
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Team Alucard said:
So is this guy legit opposition?
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Yes but he isn't the only one, look up people like Vladimir Kara-Murza - he was just poisoned this year again in February and almost died. They are people leading anti-corruption and to transform Russia into a democratic country and closer to other European countries - there is the same sentiment in Russia that existed in Ukraine which had its own revolution a few years ago. It is difficult to organise these things because just yesterday a bunch of people in a café discussing it were arrested. I mean back in the 2011-2013 anti-Putin protests with 100k+ people on the Moscow streets the Kremlin shit its pants and had the military deployed because they were scared they were going to be overthrown.
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
Lots of young Russians in the streets. That's good.

Too bad for Navalny, I guess they will find some stupid charges against him once again.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Police arrested people that help run Navalny's campaign in their office just now for streaming the protests on the Internet. No English source but here: https://meduza.io/news/2017/03/26/v...esoglasovannuyu-translyatsiyu-aktsiy-protesta

Dubbedinenglish said:
Outside of revolution, I'd say no. Putin controls the media, industry, military, and intelligence. There really isn't any recourse for dissent to make an impact on the government.
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Yep and a revolution would be bloody, I mean the Kremlin deployed the military back in 2011-2013 when there were 100k+ protesters on Moscow streets because of the fear of being overthrown. Putin will stop at nothing.
 
N

Nabbis

Member
gnomed said:
Those brave souls, the world is watching.
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Oh please. Not that it could not be potentially a good thing in the long run but the world will hardly give a shit what happens there in the next decade after the country truly does implode.
 
K

KingK

Member
sphagnum said:
Death. If the communists in Russia weren't really just nationalists, they should've been working on this by now.
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Yup, as much as I hate death and violence I don't see any other way of getting rid of him.

You really only need to hang mean bastards, but mean bastards you need to hang.
 
N

Nabbis

Member
jiji said:
Jeez, what's with the cynicism? You need a kitten.
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I was being quite positive actually, not mentioning a potential civil war and all. As much as people like to protest against the current regime, there are plenty of others who support it.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Venfayth said:
Russians seem like a great and strong people. They deserve a better government.
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Seems their strength is a reflection of their national pride which is easily exploited by nationalist leaders. It's a tough situation to resolve.
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
Dubbedinenglish said:
Outside of revolution, I'd say no. Putin controls the media, industry, military, and intelligence. There really isn't any recourse for dissent to make an impact on the government.
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You are probably right. I'm not hoping for a revolution by the way, it would be really dangerous for Russia and also for the whole world.

I hope thought that the message gets stronger about how Putin is a dictator, then maybe other politicians can rise up.

How old is he by the way? Also, when you live by the sword, you sometimes die by the sword. Russian elites can sometimes turn on you...
 
M

Madness

Member
Pomerlaw said:
You are probably right. I'm not hoping for a revolution by the way, it would be really dangerous for Russia and also for the whole world.

I hope thought that the message gets stronger about how Putin is a dictator, then maybe other politicians can rise up.

How old is he by the way? Also, when you live by the sword, you sometimes die by the sword. Russian elites can sometimes turn on you...
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One of the first things he did is clean house of oligarchs who wouldn't toe his line. The rest all back him unconditionally. He has near total control in the country, military, business, political support is all his. These pictures are good to show there is and always will be opposition, but it won't do anything when he has over 80% approval ratings and a US president who fears him.
 
L

leroidys

Member
ahoyhoy said:
Seems their strength is a reflection of their national pride which is easily exploited by nationalist leaders. It's a tough situation to resolve.
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Yes, makes it really dicey for the west to publicly back opposition movements as that will immediately make them tainted in the eyes of most people.
 
P

Pomerlaw

Member
Protests across Russia on Sunday marked the coming of age of a new adversary for the Kremlin: a generation of young people driven not by the need for stability that preoccupies their parents but by a yearning for change.

Thousands of people took to the streets across Russia, with hundreds arrested. Many were teenagers who cannot remember a time before Vladimir Putin took power 17 years ago.

"I've lived all my life under Putin," said Matvei, a 17-year-old from Moscow, who said he came close to being detained at the protest on Sunday, but managed to run from the police.

"We need to move forward, not constantly refer to the past."

A year before Putin is expected to seek a fourth term, the protests were the biggest since the last presidential election in 2012.

The driving force behind the protests was Alexei Navalny, a 40-year-old anti-corruption campaigner who uses the Internet to spread his message, bypassing the state-controlled television stations where nearly all older Russians get their news.

"None of my peers watches television and they don't trust it," said Maxim, an 18-year-old from St Petersburg who took part in a protest there.

He said messages about the demonstration were shared among his friends via a group chat on a messaging app: "Half the group went to the demonstration."

Navalny, who was arrested at one of Sunday's protests, tailors his message for YouTube and VKontakte, the Russian equivalent of Facebook.

One of his recent videos, a 50 minute expose accusing Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev of secretly owning an archipelago of luxury homes, has been watched more than 14 million times on YouTube. Medvedev's spokeswoman called the allegations "propagandistic attacks" unworthy of detailed comment and said they amounted to pre-election posturing by Navalny.

While older Russians may have turned a blind eye to official corruption during years when living standards improved, younger Russians speak of it in terms of moral outrage.

"Why do I believe that what is happening right now is wrong? Because when I was little, my mum read fairy tales to me, and they said you should not steal, you should not lie, you should not kill," said Katya, a 17-year-old who was at the protest in Moscow. "What I see happening now, you should not do," she said.

Like other students who spoke to Reuters at the demonstrations, Katya, Maxim and Matvei asked that their surnames not be published to avoid repercussions.

SOCIAL CONTRACT

Young people actively seeking change represent a new challenge for the Kremlin. It has built and maintained support for Putin for years by focusing mainly on ensuring stability, which Russians sought after the chaos of the immediate post-Soviet years.

Putin came to power after the 1990s, when the Soviet Union disintegrated and millions found themselves destitute. But young people who do not remember those times have different priorities than those even a few years older, said Yekaterina Schulmann, a political analyst.

"Our political regime is fixated on what it calls stability, that is a lack of change," she said. "The political machine believes the best offer it can make to society is 'Let's keep everything the way it is for as long as possible'."

"Young people need a model of the future, clear prospects, rules of the game which they recognize as fair, and ... a social leg-up. Not only do they not see any of that, no one is even talking about it," said Schulmann.

According to user data compiled from a social media page for people who said they planned to attend Sunday's protest in St Petersburg, more than one in six were aged under 21.

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It is still too early to say whether the new phenomenon will emerge as a serious challenge to Putin's rule. It could be a burst of youthful idealism that fizzles out.

In any case, opinion polls show that Putin will win comfortably if, as most people expect, he runs for president next year.

His most serious rival for the presidency, Navalny, trails far behind in polls and could be barred from running because of an old criminal conviction which he says is political.

Still, the involvement of so many young people has forced the Russian authorities to pay attention.

A Kremlin spokesman said youngsters had been offered money by protest organizers to show up. The Kremlin offered no evidence to support this allegation, and none of the young people who spoke to Reuters said they had been offered payment.

Several students said school and university authorities had warned them before the protests they could be punished for taking part.

Pavel, a 20-year-old studying to be a veterinarian who attended a protest in Moscow, said it was worth it to risk some of Russia's stability in the hope of change.

"Yes, maybe it will be negative; yes, maybe there won't be the stability that we have now. But for a person in the 21st century it's shameful to live in the kind of stability we have now."
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...BN16Z254?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social
 
W

Wenger'sBakedBaguettes

Member
Extreme nationalist Alexei Navalny?

The same guy who appeared alongside nazis and skinheads?

The same guy who compared dark-skinned militants ("muslims") to cockroaches in a video where he endorse pro-gun laws in Russia?

The same guy who believe in ridding Moscow of Muslim migrants?

Seems like a great guy. So this guy has become the West's "leader of the opposition" for democracy in Russia. Says a lot.

Gotta also love how NYT add a description like "MR. NAVALNY has Nordic good looks, a caustic sense of humor and no political organization." or in their more recent article of him "Mr. Navalny, 40, is a handsome, telegenic figure with a model family, much more approachable than the usually dour apparatchiks churned out by the Kremlin bureaucratic mill." in an attempt to normalize this prick. New York Times...more like New York Turd.
 
L

leroidys

Member
Yeah he's not the ideal urliberal so he should die in jail. Hail Putin!

Nice nonsensical jab at the failing™ New York Times as well.
 
H

Horns

Member
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
Extreme nationalist Alexei Navalny?

The same guy who appeared alongside nazis and skinheads?

The same guy who compared dark-skinned militants ("muslims") to cockroaches in a video where he endorse pro-gun laws in Russia?

The same guy who believe in ridding Moscow of Muslim migrants?

Seems like a great guy. So this guy has become the West's "leader of the opposition" for democracy in Russia. Says a lot.

Gotta also love how NYT add a description like "MR. NAVALNY has Nordic good looks, a caustic sense of humor and no political organization." or in their more recent article of him "Mr. Navalny, 40, is a handsome, telegenic figure with a model family, much more approachable than the usually dour apparatchiks churned out by the Kremlin bureaucratic mill." in an attempt to normalize this prick. New York Times...more like New York Turd.
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It's not like there are a lot to choose from, most of the opposition has mysteriously died.
 
J

Jenov

Member
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
Extreme nationalist Alexei Navalny?

The same guy who appeared alongside nazis and skinheads?

The same guy who compared dark-skinned militants ("muslims") to cockroaches in a video where he endorse pro-gun laws in Russia?

The same guy who believe in ridding Moscow of Muslim migrants?

Seems like a great guy. So this guy has become the West's "leader of the opposition" for democracy in Russia. Says a lot.

Gotta also love how NYT add a description like "MR. NAVALNY has Nordic good looks, a caustic sense of humor and no political organization." or in their more recent article of him "Mr. Navalny, 40, is a handsome, telegenic figure with a model family, much more approachable than the usually dour apparatchiks churned out by the Kremlin bureaucratic mill." in an attempt to normalize this prick. New York Times...more like New York Turd.
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Sounds like an upgrade over Putin at least!
 
J

jellies_two

Member
I am very careful before assuming anything about navalyn. He got tarred as an "anti-semetic" purely because he has gone after corrupt oligarchs who are mostly Russian Jews. The whole of the Russian disinformation infrastructure is going to be out to nail him if he makes the smallest move on showing the unbelievable corruption of Putin. Based on his corruption video which ends with something along the lines of "this is the same system but on a grander scale that Putin uses" he isn't just after the prime minister.

Russia doesn't have anyone inside (Kasparov is outside) the county showing the rank hypocrisy of the government and the oligarchs as they live the life of royals in the west while the country itself stagnates. At least the old soviet leaders restricted their luxuries to zil limousines and Russian caviar, not giant motor launches and Swiss bank accounts.
 
O

Out 1

Member
Seeing that Russia and Putin are in the spotlight, I thought there would be no harm in sharing some brief observations that I got from Russian media. Everyone's still scrambling to make sense of what happened.

1) Unusually high number of teens and young adults took part. Out of 1030 detained in Moscow, 46 were less than 18 years old. This is Putin's generation, as none of them were old enough to remember Russia before him. Hell, they are too young to remember what was happening five years ago. Case in point, this lovely exchange, courtesy of Julia Ioffe (a link to an article by her at the bottom of the post):
- Do you remember Bolotnaya (my edit: square in Moscow that is associated with protests of 2011-2012)?
- Yeah, I think so. It was 1917, right?
Andrei, 16​

In 2011-2012 university and high school students were largely apathetic to political life.

2) A huge turnout in Russian regions outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, especially in the part of the country that's in Asia. This time around the Kremlin will have harder time selling the protests as an uprising of rich, spoiled Muscovites, although anti-establishment and anti-Moscow sentiments are partially what drove this Sunday's protests across Russia.

3) Moscow saw her biggest illegal protest in modern history, with up to 30000-40000 people participating. Taking into account personal risks that everyone faces, it is a remarkable achievement. Naturally, the police responded by detaining a record number of citizens.

4) Yesterday's ceremony of the Nikas, a Russian film award, were pretty much entirely dedicated to expressing discontent with the Kremlin. A lot of people are sharing Alexander Sokurov's speech. There are no subtitles, but here it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMbhccTI-8.
In summary, he talks that the government should stop with violence, and expresses concern that no one's talking to and educating the youth. He has firsthand experience in education, as he had taught a course in one of the universities in the Russian Caucasus. Sokurov personally knows Putin.

5) This is a watershed moment. Presidential elections are set for 2018, hence it's widely assumed that the Kremlin wants to get through this year without much excitement and drama. I can't claim any knowledge of their plans and timelines, but I don't think they expected this. 2017 shapes up to be an important year not only for Europe, but also for Russia.

A good article for English-speakers - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/03/navalny-protests-russia-putin/520878/

Some great pictures here - https://openrussia.org/media/707813/

IMG_3682.jpg
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W

Wenger'sBakedBaguettes

Member
leroidys said:
Yeah he's not the ideal urliberal so he should die in jail. Hail Putin!

Nice nonsensical jab at the failing™ New York Times as well.
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Yes that's what I wrote. Did you pull that out of your ass?

Horns said:
It's not like there are a lot to choose from, most of the opposition has mysteriously died.
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Not gonna assume you're impyling this but honestly this just sounds like it's ok to screw over minorities when some people go through "tough" times? Actually that coincides well with modern western values when you consider the rising xenophobia in much of Europe and North America. The hypocrisy is astonishing really, people like Trump, Le Pen and Wilders are constantly condemned for similar rhethoric while the West's Russian opposition darling boy gets a free pass because he's against the current bogeyman of the West. It speaks volumes of how little the average joe give shit about minorities and only use them when they are useful in an argument or in the grander scheme of things

Prost said:
Sounds like an upgrade over Putin at least!
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Spoken like someone who's lived a privileged life without a single worry about their ethnicity, complexion or religion. I'm sure Jews and Muslims in Russia are joyful about the options they are left with on both sides.

jellies_two said:
I am very careful before assuming anything about navalyn. He got tarred as an "anti-semetic" purely because he has gone after corrupt oligarchs who are mostly Russian Jews. The whole of the Russian disinformation infrastructure is going to be out to nail him if he makes the smallest move on showing the unbelievable corruption of Putin. Based on his corruption video which ends with something along the lines of "this is the same system but on a grander scale that Putin uses" he isn't just after the prime minister.

Russia doesn't have anyone inside (Kasparov is outside) the county showing the rank hypocrisy of the government and the oligarchs as they live the life of royals in the west while the country itself stagnates. At least the old soviet leaders restricted their luxuries to zil limousines and Russian caviar, not giant motor launches and Swiss bank accounts.
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...he's appeared alongside neo-nazis and skinheads and has made nasty remarks regarding muslims/migrants, the video he appeared in even reinforce his views. Pro-government supporters or the government itself tainting his image doesn't change that. I could mention how xenophobia in Russia has increased a lot under Putin's administration but how does that change anything about him? Careful of assuming...what do you even mean.
 
J

JZA

Member
The whole "defeat them over there before they come over here" philosophy that the right parroted during OIF should be applied to Putin.
 
J

Jenov

Member
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
Yes that's what I wrote. Did you pull that out of your ass?



Not gonna assume you're impyling this but honestly this just sounds like it's ok to screw over minorities when some people go through "tough" times? Actually that coincides well with modern western values when you consider the rising xenophobia in much of Europe and North America. The hypocrisy is astonishing really, people like Trump, Le Pen and Wilders are constantly condemned for similar rhethoric while the West's Russian opposition darling boy gets a free pass because he's against the current bogeyman of the West. It speaks volumes of how little the average joe give shit about minorities and only use them when they are useful in an argument or in the grander scheme of things


Spoken like someone who's lived a privileged life without a single worry about their ethnicity, complexion or religion. I'm sure Jews and Muslims in Russia are joyful about the options they are left with on both sides.
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Hilarious considering Putin's own terrible record against minorities (LGBT would have a word with you) and the concentrated disinformation campaign aimed at Navalny. I'd take a few spoonfuls of salt on info on Navalny that came from any Russian news sources, but even then I'm not going to expect the Russia populace to suddenly embrace western liberal politics immediately, some warts are expected, as long as it's an improvement over the current murderous dictator.

Also I find it funny that you define Putin as "the current bogeyman of the West." That says a lot about where you're coming from.
 
W

Wenger'sBakedBaguettes

Member
Prost said:
Hilarious considering Putin's own terrible record against minorities (LGBT would have a word with you) and the concentrated disinformation campaign aimed at Navalny.
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and how does this change anything about Navalny? You (rightfully) condemn Putin's administration for their bad record against minorities while promoting a person with terrible views on minorities. The cognitive dissonance is mindblowing.

I'd take a few spoonfuls of salt on info on Navalny that came from any Russian news sources,
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god you're absolutely clueless.

but even then I'm not going to expect the Russia populace to suddenly embrace western liberal politics immediately, some warts are expected, as long as it's an improvement over the current murderous dictator.
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Sure mate, as long as you're not on the receiving we can brush it off as being an improvement or neccessary. Screw the minorities.

Also I find it funny that you define Putin as "the current bogeyman of the West." That says a lot about where you're coming from.
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ok sure Mr. Nazi apologist.
 
J

Jenov

Member
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes said:
and how does this change anything about Navalny? You (rightfully) condemn Putin's administration for their bad record against minorities while promoting a person with terrible views on minorities. The cognitive dissonance is mindblowing.

god you're absolutely clueless.

Sure mate, as long as you're not on the receiving we can brush it off as being an improvement or neccessary. Screw the minorities.

ok sure Mr. Nazi apologist.
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There's no cognitive dissonance. It's a lesser of two evils. The idea is that one is a murderous dictator and the other at least offers some push back against that with calls for free elections and attempts at ending years of super corrupt Putin oligarchy. It may not be much of an improvement for minorities over the status quo (assuming that isn't disinformation to smear Nalvany), but if it helps break Putin's current corrupt grip on the country it may open a small path towards more open, free elections and progress for the country. There are NO other prominent political dissidents against Putin because they're either dead or jailed. There doesn't seem to be a lot of other choices here... mate. (and lol at Nazi apologist)
 
L

Lubricus

Member
Hopefully Russia can develop in the future and become a positive force in world affairs. I support the dissidents.
 
C

Condom

Member
Lubricus said:
Hopefully Russia can develop in the future and become a positive force in world affairs. I support the dissidents.
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Then this dissident is not the one to support seeing as he is calling minorities cockroaches. His history was really different from how the media portrayed him to me.
 
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