• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

metalslimer

Member
I don't get the arguments about the West sometimes mainly because it's not like it's been a large number of teams coming out of the West. The Lakers and spurs having come out of the West like 12 times since 1999. From the arguments presented you would think that there was an impressive variety. And now it looks like GS will be in the finals for at least the next few hears. You think if LeBron is one of these teams with Kobe or Pop he doesn't surpass MJ in ring count? The only difference is it might not be back to back to back
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
metalslimer said:
I don't get the arguments about the West sometimes mainly because it's not like it's been a large number of teams coming out of the West. The Lakers and spurs having come out of the West like 12 times since 1999. From the arguments presented you would think that there was an impressive variety. And now it looks like GS will be in the finals for at least the next few hears. You think if LeBron is one of these teams with Kobe or Pop he doesn't surpass MJ in ring count? The only difference is it might not be back to back to back
Click to expand...
How many title would MJ have if he decided to join Bird and Isaiah because he couldn't beat them🤔
 
F

friskykillface

Banned
Leonard = LeBron
Someone post that gif of LeBron going "fuck" when Leonard checks back in the game
LeBron is 1 missed Ray Allen 3 from being 0-2 against him

Leonard god
 
M

MugiwaraCole

Member
Tom Penny said:
Yep he is but Kobe also played against double amount of 50 win teams in the playoffs than LeBron but who cares about cake walking to Finals every year. It's an incredible accomplishment.
Click to expand...

I don't get bringing this up, but ignoring the fact Lebron has been dominating the East virtually since he was 18. This isn't just a case of the East being poo; it is in large part because he's a tyrant in the conference.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
metalslimer said:
I don't get the arguments about the West sometimes mainly because it's not like it's been a large number of teams coming out of the West. The Lakers and spurs having come out of the West like 12 times since 1999. From the arguments presented you would think that there was an impressive variety. And now it looks like GS will be in the finals for at least the next few hears. You think if LeBron is one of these teams with Kobe or Pop he doesn't surpass MJ in ring count? The only difference is it might not be back to back to back
Click to expand...

There hasn't been that variety, but a lot of amazing teams in the West just happened to play during the Kobe's Lakers and Pop's Spurs era
and BD's warriors lets gooooo
, which makes them look worse than they were/are.

The closest thing the east has had to something like that since 2000 is... Lebron's team.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Anth0ny said:
naww


needs more rings. and I don't doubt he'll get them. but right now he's not there yet.
Click to expand...
You're crazy of he's not in your top 4 at least. MJ, Kareem, and maybe Russell if you REALLY value winning go ahead of him, and that is it

Honestly, he's number two in most people's eyes
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Lionel Richie said:
If he loses will he be out of the running?
Click to expand...

I don't think LeBron will ever match him in people's eyes with those 4 losses even if personally o think he's better as a player. I also think LeBrons longevity is amazing to see. He's been the best player in the world for at least a decade and will probably continue that for years to come even with amazing up and coming players.

Also there is only once that I think that LeBron has to lost to an overall weaker team. Whereas he has arguable beaten teams better than his at least twice. I don't in any of the 6 finals the team MJ beat was actually better than the bulls

But once again who exactly was MJ's big threat in the east once the Pistons era was over?
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
MugiwaraCole said:
I don't get bringing this up, but ignoring the fact Lebron has been dominating the East virtually since he was 18. This isn't just a case of the East being poo; it is in large part because he's a tyrant in the conference.
Click to expand...
I can't think of one great team he's faced in the East since super teaming . It's like you ignore he's the best player then stacks the deck against teams that have one player as good as his 2nd and third best players 75% of the time or more.
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
MugiwaraCole said:
For best ever? For now. Maybe indefinitely. He'd still be a top 3 player all time though.
Click to expand...

I can get behind that. If the Cavs beat the Warriors with no caveats, like people being injured and shit, it will put him in the Jordan tier. Personally I'd still take Jordan, but yeah it would be a 50/50 conversation. If he can't overcome the challenge, it knocks him back to the Magic tier.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
Tom Penny said:
I can't think of one great team he's faced in the East since super teaming . It's like you ignore he's the best player then stacks the deck against teams that have one player as good as his 2nd and third best players 75% of the time or more.
Click to expand...

The Celtics, I guess, though they were on the downswing by the time of the Celtics/Heat east finals
 
T

True Savior

Member
metalslimer said:
I don't get the arguments about the West sometimes mainly because it's not like it's been a large number of teams coming out of the West. The Lakers and spurs having come out of the West like 12 times since 1999. From the arguments presented you would think that there was an impressive variety. And now it looks like GS will be in the finals for at least the next few hears. You think if LeBron is one of these teams with Kobe or Pop he doesn't surpass MJ in ring count? The only difference is it might not be back to back to back
Click to expand...

West just had the best players in the game and in a 5-player-team lineup their influence is enormous. Someone said Lebron was always in the finals since 2011, which is amazing but think about the best players who could actually lead a team to win a nba title since then:

Pop (not a player, but hey it's him the mastermind of post-2010 Spurs dominance, not Timmy D) - West
Dirk - West (just 2011)
Rose - East
Durant - West
Westbrook - West
Curry - West
Wade - East (playing with Lebron)
Paul - West
Harden - West

Most of them are from the West. And they usually kill one another, and always 2 get to the finals

2011 - Dallas (Dirk) defeats OKC in the finals (Spurs shit the bed against a lesser team)
2012- Spurs defeat Clippers and OKC defeats them
2013 - This is the exception. A great Memphis team was able to get to the finals.
2014 - OKC defeats Clippers and Spurs defeats them
2015- Rockets defeats Clippers and lose to Warriors
2016 - OKC defeats San Antonio and loses to Warriors
2017 - Wesbrook loses to Harden which loses to Pop which is about to lose to the Warriors

It's always the same players over and over. Paul loses a lot sure, but his road is always much harder than if he played in the East. It's not unreasonable to think that Lebron could have lost in some of those years. Heck, he lost some finals, so it's actually perfectly reasonable to expect that. A Rose-Bogans backourt or Paul George playing with Hibbert shouldn't really be considered in the same vein as the west teams (especially cause you can see how they were mostly exceptions in the trajectory of those teams performances).

You could even throw Kobe in there and notice he lost to teams with great nba players post-2011.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
metalslimer said:
I don't think LeBron will ever match him in people's eyes with those 4 losses even if personally o think he's better as a player. I also think LeBrons longevity is amazing to see. He's been the best player in the world for at least a decade and will probably continue that for years to come even with amazing up and coming players.

Also there is only once that I think that LeBron has to lost to an overall weaker team. Whereas he has arguable beaten teams better than his at least twice. I don't in any of the 6 finals the team MJ beat was actually better than the bulls
Click to expand...

Kinda bothers me that the finals losses seem to be a bigger hit against him than if he were to lose in earlier rounds or something.

Except for the Mavs series which he should be rightfully criticised for, none of the other losses are on him as far as I'm concerned.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
I don't hold the finals losses against Lebron besides the year against the Mavs, honestly.

metalslimer said:
I don't think LeBron will ever match him in people's eyes with those 4 losses even if personally o think he's better as a player. I also think LeBrons longevity is amazing to see. He's been the best player in the world for at least a decade and will probably continue that for years to come even with amazing up and coming players.

Also there is only once that I think that LeBron has to lost to an overall weaker team. Whereas he has arguable beaten teams better than his at least twice. I don't in any of the 6 finals the team MJ beat was actually better than the bulls

But once again who exactly was MJ's big threat in the east once the Pistons era was over?
Click to expand...

Spurs or OKC? I thought Miami was always the favorite during the Lebron years tbh.

The win against G State last year, though, was probably the greatest finals performance of all time. And definitely against a better team than the Cavs.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Anth0ny said:
I don't hold the finals losses against Lebron besides the year against the Mavs, honestly.



Spurs or OKC? I thought Miami was always the favorite during the Lebron years tbh.

The win against G State last year, though, was probably the greatest finals performance of all time. And definitely against a better team than the Cavs.
Click to expand...

While the Spurs had a lesser record, I do think they were the better overall team. To be fair LeBron should have lost that series but he fucking balled in game 7.


Edit: There is no way the Lakers should trade that pick.
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
metalslimer said:
Also there is only once that I think that LeBron has to lost to an overall weaker team. Whereas he has arguable beaten teams better than his at least twice. I don't in any of the 6 finals the team MJ beat was actually better than the bulls

But once again who exactly was MJ's big threat in the east once the Pistons era was over?
Click to expand...

In the Finals? No way, the Warriors were the only one that were better than his team. Both the Spurs and Thunder were less talented than the Heat.

In the East during the Bulls runs there was the Miller-led Pacers, the Knicks with Ewing and the Magic with Shaq. All three squads were really good and the latter two did beat the Bulls in that era. In the Finals they did beat the Jazz twice in a row and that team was really good.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
BlackGhost said:
Lavar said Lonzo was only working out for the Lakers. This whole thing would be hilarious if they passed
Click to expand...

Meh Lavar said on Undisputed that he won't really care where Lonzo ends up as Lonzo just wants to play in the NBA. Lavar hopes it's the Lakers and wants it to happen but he won't go on a furious tirade if something else happens, he's just happy that his son is happy that he'll be in the NBA

It's not like other teams will pass on him just because he didn't work out for them
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
True Savior said:
West just had the best players in the game and in a 5-player-team lineup their influence is enormous. Someone said Lebron was always in the finals since 2011, which is amazing but think about the best players who could actually lead a team to win a nba title since then:

Pop (not a player, but hey it's him the mastermind of post-2010 Spurs dominance, not Timmy D) - West
Dirk - West (just 2011)
Rose - East
Durant - West
Westbrook - West
Curry - West
Wade - East (playing with Lebron)
Paul - West
Harden - West

Most of them are from the West. And they usually kill one another, and always 2 get to the finals

2011 - Dallas (Dirk) defeats OKC in the finals (Spurs shit the bed against a lesser team)
2012- Spurs defeat Clippers and OKC defeats them
2013 - This is the exception. A great Memphis team was able to get to the finals.
2014 - OKC defeats Clippers and Spurs defeats them
2015- Rockets defeats Clippers and lose to Warriors
2016 - OKC defeats San Antonio and loses to Warriors
2017 - Wesbrook loses to Harden which loses to Pop which is about to lose to the Warriors

It's always the same players over and over. Paul loses a lot sure, but his road is always much harder than if he played in the East. It's not unreasonable to think that Lebron could have lost in some of those years. Heck, he lost some finals, so it's actually perfectly reasonable to expect that. A Rose-Bogans backourt or Paul George playing with Hibbert shouldn't really be considered in the same vein as the west teams (especially cause you can see how they were mostly exceptions in the trajectory of those teams performances).

You could even throw Kobe in there and notice he lost to teams with great nba players post-2011.
Click to expand...

Don't have time to look for it now but I saw someone make a case that 13 of the top 15 (and like 17 of the top 20) players in the NBA play in the west. It isn't a case either that players are fleeing the East...most west teams are stacked with players they drafted or pulled from other west teams (part of the vicious cycle of mediocrity in the east). Furthermore, one could point to the fact that the 2nd most dominant player in the east this year could be considered a west washout...

East is basically junior varsity. And, yes, I will always hold that against LeBron.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
offtopic said:
Don't have time to look for it now but I saw someone make a case that 13 of the top 15 (and like 17 of the top 20) players in the NBA play in the west. It isn't a case either that players are fleeing the East...most west teams are stacked with players they drafted or pulled from other west teams (part of the vicious cycle of mediocrity in the east). Furthermore, one could point to the fact that the 2nd most dominant player in the east this year could be considered a west washout...

East is basically junior varsity. And, yes, I will always hold that against LeBron.
Click to expand...

Same. Which is why I'm still waiting for some more championships from him before placing him in top 5 all time.

Unless the East suddenly gets fucking amazing in the next 5 years... lol.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Tall4Life said:
George could go somewhere like Cleveland or San Antonio and be more assured to get a championship now instead of going to LA and waiting for the younger guys to get better.
Click to expand...
He's getting paid max. So the Cavs are out. He also plays kawhi position but pop could figure it out.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
offtopic said:
East is basically junior varsity. And, yes, I will always hold that against LeBron.
Click to expand...

East is "junior varsity" because of LeBron's dominance and I don't see why it should be held against him, not like he can control the teams he faces.

Not like the West is much better this year, with GSW sweeping through it like it's nothing.
 
B

BlackGhost

Banned
I'm not saying it'll happen but Windy has mentioned the Paul George/Cav thing before and who we would get rid of. He's seems to make it sound like Cavs have considered it, and it'll be a talking point in the offseason.

I think I'm a villain in that timeline though....
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Anth0ny said:
Same. Which is why I'm still waiting for some more championships from him before placing him in top 5 all time.

Unless the East suddenly gets fucking amazing in the next 5 years... lol.
Click to expand...
I think the Bucks are on their way to becoming the second best team in the East behind the Cavs. They will be the ones taking control while Boston is posturing waiting for the Cavs to get worse.

Bucks ceiling is Giannis who has the highest potential ceiling in the East.
 
B

Bread

Banned
BlackGhost said:
I'm not saying it'll happen but Windy has mentioned the Paul George/Cav thing before and who we would get rid of. He's seems to make it sound like Cavs have considered it, and it'll be a talking point in the offseason.

I think I'm a villain in that timeline though....
Click to expand...
you've already become the villain

the C have turned you cold, you need to respect Our C.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
mxgt said:
East is "junior varsity" because of LeBron's dominance and I don't see why it should be held against him, not like he can control the teams he faces.

Not like the West is much better this year, with GSW sweeping through it like it's nothing.
Click to expand...
If dominated everyone so much why did he call up Wade and Bosh to join them instead of go through them?
 
L

LegendofDragoonLives

Member
mxgt said:
East is "junior varsity" because of LeBron's dominance and I don't see why it should be held against him, not like he can control the teams he faces.

Not like the West is much better this year, with GSW sweeping through it like it's nothing.
Click to expand...
No the East is trash because it's trash. Otherwise Lebron's finals record vs the West wouldn't be lower than 50% but the other way around. I do agree that it's not his fault the other teams are so poor though :\
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Tom Penny said:
How many title would MJ have if he decided to join Bird and Isaiah because he couldn't beat them��
Click to expand...

Pippen + Rodman are (arguably) better than any two teammates LeBron has had. Definitely better than the duo in Cleveland though maybe on par with Bosh + Wade. And it's not like Bird and Magic played with scrubs. Yeah, LeBron changed teams, but the 80s Celtics and Lakers had even more Hall of Famers.

Servbot24 said:
I would want to see PG literally anywhere other than Cleveland. And Brooklyn.
Click to expand...

And Boston.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Brooklyn has a better starting lineup with Paul George than Indiana though. Teague/young/Turner vs Lin/LeVert/Lopez. Brooklyn can also space and pace way more than the pacers could hope to do
 
R

Raziel

Member
The Warriors and Spurs are better than 7 of the top 8 seeds in the East (possibly all 8).

The Clippers and The Rockets are better than 7 of the top 8 in the East.


This is the West when it's "not much" better than the East.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Dungeons and Dragons GAF | OT | Discord and Guide Let’s Play
29
1K
GeorgioCostanzaX replied
The 12 days of Gafmas |OT| The year in thread popularity!
28
993
jm89 replied
Amid the Palworld dispute, one analyst says Nintendo only strikes when it wants to because it "could have sued half the gaming industry back in 2017"
News Drama Business 2
86
6K
Robb replied
Path of Exile 2 Early Access |OT| An Exile like ARPG.
|OT| 60 61 62 63 64
3K
93K
Rentahamster replied
52 Games. 1 Year. 2025. [BacklogBeat]
2
56
1K
Jooxed replied
Top Bottom