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NBA Finals 2017 |OT| Same As It Ever Was

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D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
I would imagine he negotiated the rule because he wanted to take advantage of it.

Also there is pressure from the PA for players to not take less money.
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I wouldn't make that assumption. He's the President. It's his responsibility to negotiate the best deal he can for all the players that elected him, not to force himself into a team he doesn't want to be in if he no longer wants to be there. That is the exact kind of agency that the players have worked towards having too, you know. Whether he takes advantage of it personally is completely irrelevant. It's not like it will stop others from doing so.

That said, it is hard to see him leaving because that's a LOT of money to turn down; not because he's the President.
 
Joei

Joei

Member
I was just thinking, I've read some people here say that Golden State is a home grown team, where the Cavs were assembled, like players just gravitated there. I think that's a little disingenuous when you look at the starting 5 and even their 6th man. Kyrie and TT were drafted by them, we all know the stuff with Lebron who was initially drafted by them, and Love, JR, and Iman were all acquired by trading players drafted by them. One of the reasons they're so over the cap is by spending the money to retain these players drafted by them or acquired by trading their initial assets. Saying that the reason they're in the Finals because they paid their way there or got there by going over the cap is over looking the fact that that money was spent to keep their guys or fully utilize their assets.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
Joei said:
I wasn't just thinking, I've read some people here say that Golden State is a home grown team, where the Cavs were assembled, like players just gravitates there. I think that's a little disingenuous when you look at the starting 5 and even their 6th man. Kyrie and TT were drafted by them, we all know the stuff with Lebron who was initially drafted by them, and Love, JR, and Iman were all acquired by trading players drafted by them. One of the reasons they're so over the cap is by spending the money to retain these players drafted by them or acquired by trading their initial assets. Saying that the reason they're in the Finals because they paid their way there or got there by going over the cap is over looking the fact that that money was spent to keep their guys or fully utilize their assets.
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Lebron didnt go back to Cleveland because he was originally drafted there, he went back because Kyrie was there and they could get people like Love to win championships. It wasn't just some magnanimous thing, even though that's what his PR team wants you to think.

Besides Kyrie, of their top 3, LeBron and Love were bought. Ignoring Durant, the other top 3 of the Warriors were all drafted, and they weren't top picks either, with the highest being Curry at 7. And trading draft picks and players for others is still a form of buying in the NBA. I'm not going to pretend that the Celtics didnt buy Garnett and Allen in 2007, its what they did.
 
Joei

Joei

Member
Tall4Life said:
Lebron didnt go back to Cleveland because he was originally drafted there, he went back because Kyrie was there and they could get people like Love to win championships. It wasn't just some magnanimous thing, even though that's what his PR team wants you to think.

Besides Kyrie, of their top 3, LeBron and Love were bought. Ignoring Durant, the other top 3 of the Warriors were all drafted, and they weren't top picks either, with the highest being Curry at 7. And trading draft picks and players for others is still a form of buying in the NBA. I'm not going to pretend that the Celtics didnt buy Garnett and Allen in 2007, its what they did.
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Well they paid a nice price for Love by giving up Andrew Wiggins. I get the whole Lebron issue, it was likely his best situation to keep in contention, but they still had to trade their own assets for Love, Smith and Iman and then pay to keep them. They couldn't just say, here's a bag of peanuts for those three, they had to make comparable trades to get three players who were wasting away at their previous stops. And I'm not here to argue and say their method was the same as GSW, just that they still had to give up a lof of their own assets to acquire the players they wanted and then pay them accordingly.


Edit - and for what it's worth, Golden State is going to be in the same kind of payroll predicament very soon.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Joei said:
Well they paid a nice price for Love by giving up Andrew Wiggins. I get the whole Lebron issue, it was likely his best situation to keep in contention, but they still had to trade their own assets for Love, Smith and Iman and then pay to keep them. They couldn't just say, here's a bag of peanuts for those three, they had to make comparable trades to get three players who were wasting away at their previous stops. And I'm not here to argue and say their method was the same as GSW, just that they still had to give up a lof of their own assets to acquire the players they wanted and then pay them accordingly.


Edit - and for what it's worth, Golden State is going to be in the same kind of payroll predicament very soon.
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I understand what you're saying. Cav didn't get any gifts in trades or free agency like say...Pau Gasol to the Lakers at that time in his career.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
random25 said:
It's a mystery to me how he won that award.
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"we can't give it to LeBron, he was on the losing team"

Of the Warriors in that series, Iggy was the right choice. But hindsight (and probably foresight for a lot of people) says just give LeBron his consolation prize.
 
G

George Claw M.D.

Member
Elfforkusu said:
"we can't give it to LeBron, he was on the losing team"

Of the Warriors in that series, Iggy was the right choice. But hindsight (and probably foresight for a lot of people) says just give LeBron his consolation prize.
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Salty ass Cavs fans sticking around in hopes that LeBron won FMVP. Then they all started booing when Iggy won it.

But nah, Iggy didn't deserve it over Steph if it had to be someone from the winning team. Stupid voters just swayed at the time by the prevailing storyline of Iggy entering the starting lineup and being some kind of LeBron stopper. Which is ironic since LeBron's numbers were still good enough for many to think he should've won FMVP despite losing the series. Steph lost it by virtue of not playing up to his MVP standards, even though he was still GSW's best player in the Finals. He basically suffered from the LeBron effect.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
George Claw M.D. said:
Salty ass Cavs fans sticking around in hopes that LeBron won FMVP. Then they all started booing when Iggy won it.

But nah, Iggy didn't deserve it over Steph if it had to be someone from the winning team. Stupid voters just swayed at the time by the prevailing storyline of Iggy entering the starting lineup and being some kind of LeBron stopper. Which is ironic since LeBron's numbers were still good enough for many to think he should've won FMVP despite losing the series. Steph lost it by virtue of not playing up to his MVP standards, even though he was still GSW's best player in the Finals. He basically suffered from the LeBron effect.
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That and delly's emergence

Iggy starting and his minutes in general were among the turning points of that series, and the narrative was this on his favor.

I don't think it's that invalid, it's a testament to LeBron that since 2012 the fmvp has gone to him or a player guarding him
 
D

Dynomutt

Member
Just re-watched games 5/6 from last year and LBJ went off. They're gonna need that type of performance from him consistently to stand a chance. Kyrie and K.Love will have to show up with big games. Tristan will need those double double's and shooters like Kyle Korver and JR Smith will need to be unconscious.

Golden State just seems so complete this year. Arguably had Barnes showed up last year we might not even be here. Gonna be a crazy finals whether a sweep or a battle it will be good.

Anyone think the Cavs can emulate that San Antonio game 1? LBJ is going to roam on defense so I'm kind of curious how Lue is going to game for the Warriors. Mike Brown in some ways has the easier assignment.
 
R

Ronin Ray

Member
Boogs31 said:
I think he will value his own happiness and desires over that of the PA. And CP3 and LeBron are very close. LeBron is due to benefit from the rule. Couldn't CP3 have helped negotiate that deal for the benefit of his good friend?
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Cp3 is not leaving millions and millions of dollars on the table to come to San Antonio. Isn't the difference like more then 20 or 30 mill or something​ crazy?

Me as a spurs fan I wouldn't want him. It would cost the team to much to get him. The spurs need to focus on young talent to build around Kawhi and grow. Murray is the future at the point and grooming him next year should be the focus.
 
R

random25

Member
Elfforkusu said:
"we can't give it to LeBron, he was on the losing team"

Of the Warriors in that series, Iggy was the right choice. But hindsight (and probably foresight for a lot of people) says just give LeBron his consolation prize.
Click to expand...

Steph lead his team on scoring on all but 1 game, win or lose, and was overall statistically better than Iggy in that series. Steph deserved it more, and "experts" just exaggerate Curry's "poor" performance in that series.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Warriors in 7.

Cavs are playing amazing right now but the Warriors might have one too many options for the Cavs to cover and they have unguardable Durant.

If Cavs can get inside the head of Draymond again, they can dictate the series.

I'm expecting some OTs and Cleveland to take 1 of the first 2.
 
A

Alter_Fridge

Member
otapnam said:
Four 1st picks in 10 years?
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epa_usa_basketball_nba_finals_82657602.jpg
 
G

George Claw M.D.

Member
Things to watch for:

1. How much will refs allow the Cavs to maul Steph to tire him out and mess up his rhythm?

2. How many screens will JR try to bulldoze through?

3. Dahntay comes in just to tilt Draymond.

4. Illegal screens everywhere.

5. If Kerr comes back, does Draymond become hesitant and his 3pt % tanks, allowing the Cavs to leave him open?

6. Does Iggy and Klay find their grooves again?

7. Will GSW continue the tradition of dumping Varejao midseason then going on to win the championship?
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
random25 said:
Steph lead his team on scoring on all but 1 game, win or lose, and was overall statistically better than Iggy in that series. Steph deserved it more, and "experts" just exaggerate Curry's "poor" performance in that series.
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Offensively, sure. But Iggy was the only guy standing between GSW and LeBron inexplicably beating them singlehandedly.

So, uh, I'm not going to actually argue that he deserved it. LeBron deserved it.
 
F

FZZ

Banned
arbok26 said:
Warriors in 7.

Cavs are playing amazing right now but the Warriors might have one too many options for the Cavs to cover and they have unguardable Durant.

If Cavs can get inside the head of Draymond again, they can dictate the series.

I'm expecting some OTs and Cleveland to take 1 of the first 2.
Click to expand...

If it goes 7, Cavs will win

LeBron doesn't lose game 7's

Either GSW in 6 or less or Cavs in 6 or 7
 
T

TTG

Member
George Claw M.D. said:
Things to watch for:

1. How much will refs allow the Cavs to maul Steph to tire him out and mess up his rhythm?

2. How many screens will JR try to bulldoze through?

3. Dahntay comes in just to tilt Draymond.

4. Illegal screens everywhere.

5. If Kerr comes back, does Draymond become hesitant and his 3pt % tanks, allowing the Cavs to leave him open?

6. Does Iggy and Klay find their grooves again?

7. Will GSW continue the tradition of dumping Varejao midseason then going on to win the championship?
Click to expand...

Yea, they're gonna fuck with Steph and Klay off ball, why wouldn't they? It's the only strategy that works as Paul made apparent like 3 years ago. The only countermeasure is illegal Zaza and Draymond screens.

Draymond is gonna have all the open 3s he wants, hopefully he doesn't want that many.

Iggy is washed, unless they want someone to pester(not really defend) Lebron for 5 minutes here and there he shouldn't be in the game. Klay is another matter, fingers crossed?

Mostly I want a war between Lebron and KD on both ends of the court for like 30 minutes a game. If the Warriors can get that, Cavs chances drop precipitously. Klay is gonna d up Kyrie as much as anyone can, Thompson is going to wreck whoever on the glass all night. It's a question how much Draymond is going to help off Love. I wouldn't do it at all and erase him entirely, but that hasn't been the Warriors strategy. They have been sending help on pick and roll all playoffs, and with the bigs they have it's no coincidence, so who knows. There's no good answer there.

Iggy being unplayable kind of fucks the Warriors. It means a 5 on the floor for longer stretches, which means the Cavs have 2 switches to hunt for. Livingston may be unplayable as well. Maybe they should just try McCaw. I wouldn't ever have said it during the regular season, but Iggy hit eject one season too soon. We'll see.
 
G

George Claw M.D.

Member
FUUUUUuuuuuu!!!!! SAS just chose GSW to win in 7. Funny thing is he says he's sure LeBron and the Cavs are happy since he's been wrong the last 6 times. 😂
 
T

The One and Done™

Member
People aren't prepared for how underwhelming these Finals will be. The Warriors are on a different stratosphere compared to the lowly Cavs. The games won't even be close. I doubt the Cavs will a lead for more than 5 minutes the entire series. Warriors will win by 20+ each game.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
1. Every team San Antonio has been beaten by since 2008 has lost in the next round. Since 2002, none of those teams have won the championship

2. Stephen A. Smith has predicted the winner of the finals wrong 11 straight times. He just said GSW in 7.

https://streamable.com/xcieh

RIP Dubs. Doubt they beat a double SAS curse
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
The One and Done™;238449018 said:
People aren't prepared for how underwhelming these Finals will be. The Warriors are on a different stratosphere compared to the lowly Cavs. The games won't even be close. I doubt the Cavs will a lead for more than 5 minutes the entire series. Warriors will win by 20+ each game.
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Cavs in 4.
 
T

True Savior

Member
Warriors in 4. Not that I don't believe in Lebron, but I kinda want to see a very lopsided series so I can trash this post-season forever.

Fuck Zaza btw.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
FZZ said:
If it goes 7, Cavs will win

LeBron doesn't lose game 7's

Either GSW in 6 or less or Cavs in 6 or 7
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Good shout there. But warriors still have home court so I don't mind saying warriors in 7.

But people saying warriors in 4 or cavs in 4 are crazy.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
Ronin Ray said:
Cp3 is not leaving millions and millions of dollars on the table to come to San Antonio. Isn't the difference like more then 20 or 30 mill or something​ crazy?

Me as a spurs fan I wouldn't want him. It would cost the team to much to get him. The spurs need to focus on young talent to build around Kawhi and grow. Murray is the future at the point and grooming him next year should be the focus.
Click to expand...

It's a lot to give up but let's not forget that he'll still be making a TON of money whether he signs for the super max or just the regular max. And how do you know what he values more? Maybe the extra money is not as important to him as competing for a championship. We won't know that answer until he makes his decision.

And why would bringing in CP3 somehow hinder the progress of the Spurs young players? It's not as if Murray is going to start in the next 2 years anyway. If San Antonio goes the non CP3 route, brings back Mills, and Parker doesn't retire, Murray will still just be the 3rd point guard anyway. Bertans will still get playing time whether CP3 is there or not. Keeping Simmons comes down to how big of a contract he signs as a restricted free agent. San Antonio won't match if they think it's an overpay. They can acquire CP3 if they trade Pau and do a couple smaller cost saving moves. They don't have to sacrifice their future to get him.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
arbok26 said:
Good shout there. But warriors still have home court so I don't mind saying warriors in 7.

But people saying warriors in 4 or cavs in 4 are crazy.
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cavs in 4 is even more absurdly hilarious

they couldn't do in 4 against the fucking C

AND WHERE IS OUR OFFSEASON THREAD :((((
 
R

random25

Member
Told y'all the jinx that is Stephen A Smith is gonna pick the Warriors to win the chip.

So congratulations to the Cleveland Cavaliers for winning the 2017 NBA Finals.
 
B

Boombloxer

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
Because BadAss reminded me of LeBron James quitting in the 4th quarter of Game 5 (literally leaving and never returning) and that sparked a thought that Kobe would never get a pass for such fuckery.

Judging by the responses, I would say I am right. People are dragging out the ole Kobe hate standbys instead of refuting what I actually said.

That is why.

And it was 7 years ago. Now you feel old.
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Some things never change.

mjp2417 said:
Kobe stans are the basketball equivalent of the dudes in MAGA hats. When they show up, discussion tends to devolve rapidly.
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First, no. Your post fails because Kobe isn't a fraud like Trump. About the only thing they have in common is winning.

GalacticToast said:
Yeah, but Jordan is the GOAT. Always relevant. Kobe, not so much.
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"I just had my mamba mentality" - Kyrie Irving, 2016 after hitting the go-ahead 3.

But sure, not relevant.

mxgt said:
giphy.gif


I wish he'd look this evil more often. You just knew the Celtics were fucked.
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This is where you can get spoiled if you saw enough Jordan or Kobe. Flu game, 45 on the Spurs, etc. Took him years to find it, but once he did, it was a wrap.

kIdMuScLe said:
Did anyone see that David stern statement that it was Kupchak who basically screwed the Chris paul trade? This fucking guy...
Click to expand...

I saw it and ignored it. No one cares about an old lawyer logic for basketball reasons.

And GSW in 5.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
FZZ said:
If it goes 7, Cavs will win

LeBron doesn't lose game 7's
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How about the 2008 Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Celtics?

He has a good record in game 7's but let's not start claiming it's guaranteed. They barely won game 7 last year to a Golden State team that was fatigued from playing back to back 7 game series, was missing their starting center to injury (Bogut), their backup center (Ezeli) was playing injured, and Curry was playing at 75%.

And LeBron's only other Finals game 7 he had home court advantage and it was still a tightly contested win over the Spurs.

Curry is healthy, the Warriors have added Kevin Durant, their centers are better and healthier than last year, and they are well rested unlike last year when they had to use all their energy to get past OKC. If it goes 7, Golden State will be the definitive favorites with home court advantage.
 
stn

stn

Member
Part of me wants the Cavs to win so LeBron can come that much closer to matching Jordan's career. Also, I'd feel less bad about the Celtics losing if they lost to the best team. The other part wants to see Durant win finally.
 
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