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NeoGAF Mafia |OT8| Who wants to talk about Murders?
- Thread starter RetroMG
- Start date
There are five people on the sub list currently. You are number four.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Seems appropriate with hanging in the Mafia game and a hung Parliament in the real world.
So now that PPM is over, it looks like we have to have another talk about player behavior.
Guys, this is a game. Aggressive play is sometimes useful. I get it. Your fellow players are sometimes maddeningly slow. I get that, too. It's frustrating when someone is targeting you for a lynch for apparently no reason at all. Yes, I understand that as well. I used to play this game too, remember?
Guess what? I don't care. It's still just a game.
There is no excuse for some of the behavior we saw in Pineapple Pizza Mafia. None. I saw posts that, if they had been seen by a GAF mod, would have earned the player a two week minimum ban from NeoGAF. Now, fortunately we have a lot of good credit with the GAF mods, and they seem content to let us manage ourselves.
So here's us, managing ourselves. We let a lot of things slide in Pineapple Pizza, for a lot of reasons that we're not going to go into right now. That's not happening anymore. If you cross the line with another player, you're going to get a warning. You do it again, (with ANY player) you're going to be replaced or modkilled. If you go too far over the line, we'll alert the GAF mods, and let you have a week or so to cool off from GAF.
Please be mindful of your language during games. I'm not asking you to say "gosh golly gee," but if you're arming the F-Bomb, you need to cool off and rethink your post.
Please remember that other people are doing this for fun. For most sane people, getting insulted isn't considered fun. I know a few of us are quite deranged, but let's assume that not all of us are.
It has been suggested to me that we are a bit too "Care Bear" here in Gafia. My response is that if you are only playing this game in order to win, and you are all right with stepping on other players in order to do so, then Gafia might not be the place for you. If you are here to play a fun game and make some friends, then you are welcome here in Gafia.
Guys, this is a game. Aggressive play is sometimes useful. I get it. Your fellow players are sometimes maddeningly slow. I get that, too. It's frustrating when someone is targeting you for a lynch for apparently no reason at all. Yes, I understand that as well. I used to play this game too, remember?
Guess what? I don't care. It's still just a game.
There is no excuse for some of the behavior we saw in Pineapple Pizza Mafia. None. I saw posts that, if they had been seen by a GAF mod, would have earned the player a two week minimum ban from NeoGAF. Now, fortunately we have a lot of good credit with the GAF mods, and they seem content to let us manage ourselves.
So here's us, managing ourselves. We let a lot of things slide in Pineapple Pizza, for a lot of reasons that we're not going to go into right now. That's not happening anymore. If you cross the line with another player, you're going to get a warning. You do it again, (with ANY player) you're going to be replaced or modkilled. If you go too far over the line, we'll alert the GAF mods, and let you have a week or so to cool off from GAF.
Please be mindful of your language during games. I'm not asking you to say "gosh golly gee," but if you're arming the F-Bomb, you need to cool off and rethink your post.
Please remember that other people are doing this for fun. For most sane people, getting insulted isn't considered fun. I know a few of us are quite deranged, but let's assume that not all of us are.
It has been suggested to me that we are a bit too "Care Bear" here in Gafia. My response is that if you are only playing this game in order to win, and you are all right with stepping on other players in order to do so, then Gafia might not be the place for you. If you are here to play a fun game and make some friends, then you are welcome here in Gafia.
CrimsonFist
Member
Are you tied of flavour arguments? Of people reading too much into role names, wasting the day on frivolous arguments, trying to force pointless claims and the difference between "The" and "That"? Join Just Mafia today, for Just Mafia.
Just Mafia will be a flavourless game, meaning that role PM's won't contain flavour names and there won't be fluff, as a change of pace from the norm, and certainly not because I'm too lazy to write flavour. It's a 20 player game, and whilst I don't want to say it's overly tame, it's not role madness or too bastard.
Players:
1) Lone_Prodigy
2) Hey_Monkey
3) isaacnukem
4) Dusk Soldier
5) nin1000
6) NeckToChicken (new)
7) weemadarthur
8) kitsunelaine
9) acohrs
10) LaunchpadMcQ
11) Karkador
12) rac
13) franconp
14) Fat4all
15)
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
Signups will run for 72 hours, and if we have more than 20 players, places will be assigned by priority. Game will start sometime shortly after signups close.
Signups Close:
Just Mafia will be a flavourless game, meaning that role PM's won't contain flavour names and there won't be fluff, as a change of pace from the norm, and certainly not because I'm too lazy to write flavour. It's a 20 player game, and whilst I don't want to say it's overly tame, it's not role madness or too bastard.
Players:
1) Lone_Prodigy
2) Hey_Monkey
3) isaacnukem
4) Dusk Soldier
5) nin1000
6) NeckToChicken (new)
7) weemadarthur
8) kitsunelaine
9) acohrs
10) LaunchpadMcQ
11) Karkador
12) rac
13) franconp
14) Fat4all
15)
16)
17)
18)
19)
20)
Signups will run for 72 hours, and if we have more than 20 players, places will be assigned by priority. Game will start sometime shortly after signups close.
Signups Close:
hey_monkey
Banned
The shaaaaaaade of it all, the articles and the pronouns and the usage.
Sadly, I'll have to pass. This game will most likely run into my vacation at the end of the month, and I don't want to bother people by being out for 5-7 real life days.
hey_monkey
Banned
I would actually really like to play a flavorless game for the practice. but I have also just done two in a row so I'm low priority. I just feel like there's a ton of nuance and behavior I don't have a grip on yet. Y'all are complex, complicated creatures.
I am also trying to work on lowering my post count a bit. Don't want to be a drain.
I am also trying to work on lowering my post count a bit. Don't want to be a drain.
Have you seen that stat thing that Ouro posted? As long as I exist, no one else can be a drain.
Sign up anyway. Chances are decent you'll get a spot. And yeah, some of it is just learning by doing.
And don't worry about your post count being too high until people start comparing you to Sorian.
hey_monkey
Banned
hahaha, yeah, I've been studying that stuff. I'm such a nerd that data just lights me up. But I'm also used to post-editing extensively because I have congenital-post-before-thought-is-done disorder and the adjustment is hard, man. it's hard.
edit: see?! okay, I will aspire to not-quite be Sorian, though I do dig that avatar.
All right, sign me up for flavorless mafia, and if I make it, yay! Not sure if I could do whatever comes next anyway - I have loads to do later in the summer.
if you're playing just to fuck around why are you playing a game of mafia in the first place?
I play to stomp on all the newbies Retro. Is that ok?
weemadarthur
Member
I think the quote is marking down a difference between "playing to win" and "playing in a way that deliberately makes others not have fun". You seem to be thinking it is comparing "playing to win" and "playing to lose".
Yeah, basically. You should be playing to win, and some degree of aggressive behavior comes with that. Appealing to emotions is a thing, after all.
But if you're getting to the point where you're intimidating others into not playing and/or you're straight up breaking GAF rules in the process(not pointing fingers here, more then one person did this in PPM), then you're actively causing a problem for people playing the game. And that's not acceptable.
hey_monkey
Banned
Can we get dead thread access for PPM? I wanna spectate the spectators.
eta: used PPM just for you, Verelios.
eta: used PPM just for you, Verelios.
isaacnukem
Member
Hey! I took umbrage
Yea. Like, I know exactly what you mean. I was raised in the internet ether, my childhood was chat rooms. There's some instincts you pick up which can lead to hostile-appearing behavior.
It's hard to explain them. Like, conversation is always purpose-driven. In mafia in particular, especially when no one is talking, there's no group purpose. And simply the rules of the game and the knowledge of a win aren't purpose, because people are social and they only care about people. No one cares about the superficial win, they care about the social win. The game needs a story full of players having vendetta's with each other. This is true in amazing chat rooms as well. It needs drama, frankly.
So a trick is to out yourself as the antagonizer or the other, and then have a group fall in around you to pick sides or be united against you. I don't purposefully do it, but I know I do it all of the time. It is my go-to in a stagnating conversation. The goal though, is to keep the group dynamic just as the right level of conflict and eventually de-escalate yourself out of being the antagonizer. I go overboard and I get crass or rude, but there is some method to this madness that is far more nuanced than simply wanting to call people idiots. I'm basically a crybaby. If I felt like anyone here didn't like me, I would leave (as I just got back from doing for a year), but NOTHING anyone has ever said in a game of mafia has hurt me whatsoever. I thought Stanley's tirade against me was hilarious and honestly endearing that he felt that emotional about something I wrote. My opinion of Stanley grew immensely, as has my opinion of his scumtree partner
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I just want to sign up for Crimson's mafia because he used the correct spelling of "flavour".
Lmao why would I not like you. You just mentally exhaust me every time we play. Hey-monkey is learning quickly from you
I've always wanted a disciple.
---------
So since I remembered and the game is done now. What do people think of this by the way? I know we get ghosted sometimes and there's nothing to be done there but would it be too much to have someone replacing out to just type up a little summary of their night actions, results, and why they chose said actions. PM it to the mod so they can verify nothing too crazy was added to the message then the mod can PM it to the replacement? Feel like we get caught out so often with someone unable to really do much of anything to defend their actions because they have no clue what their predecessor was doing. And sure, sometimes the person is just lying like ttk was but then they can just lie and say whatever anyway.
hey_monkey
Banned
I had a moment or three when I actually asked my trusted advisors if I was just not meant to be here and if I should quit. I felt pretty shitty, tbh, when I got called out for some things. I mean, I died pretty early in my game one so this was really just me getting more into things, and since I'm new, I'm more inclined to take things personally, I think. I haven't built up a thick skin yet. But y'all aren't gonna drive me out. 
eta: Sorian, I think it's a great idea, but if someone's being replaced for inactivity there's a chance they might not be provide it in a timely fashion, of course.
eta: Sorian, I think it's a great idea, but if someone's being replaced for inactivity there's a chance they might not be provide it in a timely fashion, of course.
hey_monkey
Banned
I don't feel great about that. I would like to do less. But I'm okay, not fishing or anything. Just for a hot sec in the middle there, I thought I was just really not gonna belong. But turns out y'all are stuck with me.
Never be sad about being active!
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
oh yeah, i just wanna say mafia is a social game where it can be rough and some people may say unkind things (both intentionally - to shake other players off their logic, and unintentionally, because frustrated people are frustrated)
so, yeah, monkiki, as i have said to you, you are a great new comer this season and i loves your contributions and playstyle so far. dont take things too personally in-game.
<3 kikimon
so, yeah, monkiki, as i have said to you, you are a great new comer this season and i loves your contributions and playstyle so far. dont take things too personally in-game.
<3 kikimon
Haters gonna hate* It's a weird acronym onii-san
I'll just say that when I saw your first post on day 3 my heart dropped. You really handled the resulting shit storm well with logical arguments/justifications and that's when I knew that a monkey lynch was a dream...and I guess when I died a little inside.I had a moment or three when I actually asked my trusted advisors if I was just not meant to be here and if I should quit. I felt pretty shitty, tbh, when I got called out for some things. I mean, I died pretty early in my game one so this was really just me getting more into things, and since I'm new, I'm more inclined to take things personally, I think. I haven't built up a thick skin yet. But y'all aren't gonna drive me out.
eta: Sorian, I think it's a great idea, but if someone's being replaced for inactivity there's a chance they might not be provide it in a timely fashion, of course.
As far as the discussion about politness and aggression in this community goes, I found it really rough to deal with at times in previous games. After Danny Phantom mafia and a few issues in its spec chat, I got so pissed off I just decided to put mafia behind me. I should probably give credit to ynnny for being kind enough to reach out to me and be friendly after that. That is likely the main reason I decided to come back. I'm thin-skinned and not particularly good at dealing with people, so the aggressive and hyper-competitive attitudes of some people in this community will naturally be at odds. I'm okay about things now, but to be honest, I just don't understand why people get so meanspirited and nasty over the game at times. It is a game, and it isn't hard to at least be polite to people. That isn't being "care-bear", it is simple good sportsmanship. I look back at the last few games and various older mafia games and I see a long list of people who, like me, were antagonized as newbies and pushed out of the community. I don't think that is particularly healthy for the community. I'm not the biggest expert though, so I will leave it to the mods to do what they think is best. More than anyone else, they have been trying to make this a healthy and thriving mafia community.
Sorry for the rambling rant.
Sorry for the rambling rant.
I think we should seriously think about simply having certain players not play with new players. Having your first game immediately being very aggressive and with insults thrown your way can be a very negative experience, while of you already played in a more mellow game maybe those players will be able to handle it better. Of course that would mean preventing certain players from joining certain games, which is not something I am a huge fan off, but we had multiple new players leave this community because of insults and aggressiveness during their first game, and we should look at how we can help that problem.
I also think it may be good if in certain situations people can talk outside of the game to make clear that their aggressiveness is purely game based and that they have no actual problem with the player. Of course this would need to be regulated to prevent game related stuff being discussed, but I can see value in this.
I also think it may be good if in certain situations people can talk outside of the game to make clear that their aggressiveness is purely game based and that they have no actual problem with the player. Of course this would need to be regulated to prevent game related stuff being discussed, but I can see value in this.
hey_monkey
Banned
Poor Verelios. Man, after seeing those stats I just wanted to send you a cake.
As for me, I love y'all but I don't need headpats. I sought them when I did, ha. It'll just take me a bit to find my feet but I really love this form of play and the game designs. Reading Bowlie's spreadsheet got me so excited. Plus I can't write a paper about y'all if I leave.
hey_monkey
Banned
She's the best. <3
Royal_Flush
Member
Or maybe the aggressive players should just give new players a certain grace period. I always try to play softball with newer players in the first half of the game because they are new after all. It's not their fault they don't know how to properly play yet. Maybe whoever is guilty of misbehavior in PPM should try expressing their advice in a civil manner and only shout at and insult more seasoned players who can take it? Can't be that hard, can it?
Oh, unless the new ones ignore the advice and get stubborn, then I may get pissed
Oh, unless the new ones ignore the advice and get stubborn, then I may get pissed
sorry, lifeline
I have not read PPM, but don't you dare becoming a coaster. I largely prefer high activity players to low activity ones (yes, I am aware that I'm more the latter) because they at least usually move the game forward.
Just don't ask for my advice when dealing with aggression anymore
Ourob, Sorian was being a meanie to me in discord, what do I do????
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
kikimon, my comments werent headpats! (i just <3 u)
\o/
sky-o, <3 i misschu so i reach out cuz for what i have seen in the past (prior to your return) you actually are a really good player with great analytics
basically, a player that would benefit the community if they stay glad you are back <3
sorayan <33333333333
\o/
sky-o, <3 i misschu so i reach out cuz for what i have seen in the past (prior to your return) you actually are a really good player with great analytics
basically, a player that would benefit the community if they stay
glad you are back <3sorayan <33333333333
Knowing you, you were probably asking for it, snowflake
And as one of the prime examples of someone that took offense last game I want to make it clear - I don't expect everyone to play with kid gloves on. I don't expect people to be passive. You can be aggressive. You can say my play is illogical and poorly thought out. You can say I'm garbage. It's when things go over the line with insults. That's all. Not asking anyone to be too passive. I really hope no one quits because they feel like they can't play how they want, because I by no means expect that. I even praised the play of the person I had my conflict with in the spec thread. Just when you're playing with that aggressive style and you know you're about to make it personal just dial back the insults a level, that's all. Hopefully my whining doesn't chase anyone off for good.
I try to be as indirectly aggressive as possible but it's hard to switch over when an argument gets heated. That's when I take a step back and say, 'is anyone going to be convinced by this? No? Then I probably shouldn't do it'. I feel like that's a line worth making for yourself, because at the end of the day it's a social game. You're working together to win or kill and if people aren't having fun then it's more likely you're not going to succeed.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
in the future, if anyone needs to whaaaaarrrgaabbllll because someone in-game is mean/ frustrating/ smells bad/ makes you uncomfortable/ is sorayan........ remember you can always send a PM to me and just vent out
(when im not playing in the same game, of course)
(when im not playing in the same game, of course)
((dont you dare throw shade at me about playing, OA)) ((dont you dare >:3))
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