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[IrishNinja]

...huh. funny you say that, because the prior RGB mod of gutting the playchoice 10's PPU used to be the one people argued about palette choices - Icarus' hair, the backdrop of i wanna say level 1 of Castlevania, etc - and others'd argue that if you looked at the official art (on the box itself, in Nintendo Power etc) supposedly you could see this was the designer's intent, but the hardware limitations kept us from it.

either way, it's a moot point for me as the mod brings the option to switch to that palette as well, which is a neat option but most games i prefer "regular"/new RGB. if those are truly drawn from an emulator, they seem to be most in line with the actual colors you'd see in standard composhit, just you know, not terrible.

 

[baphomet]

The NES RGB mod's color palette options are based on the Nintendulator NES emulator and FCEUX emulator. Based on the extent of the mod, it also offers a simple pass through to output the original composite signal (so no harm no foul if you want to see the precise original source material).

In contrast, N64's RGB mod (from what I understand) is purely mechanical in nature, and is simply outputting the native image in RGB-quality.

For most, it's a distinction without a difference. For me, it makes a slight difference that I'm seeing the best possible judgment of what the author of an emulator thought NES games should look like.

It also outputs the original palette in rgb. The others are just added bonuses.

 

[Huggers]

It also outputs the original palette in rgb. The others are just added bonuses.

DMed you Baph

 

[baphomet]

DMed you Baph

They really need to have some sort of message indicator when youre on mobile. Literally, 99% of the time I'm on here its mobile.

I just replied to you though!

 

[ElTopo]

Got bored and wanted to play an Action/Platformer I haven't really touched. So, started playing Street Fighter 2010. Haven't played it in several years and abused save states. I got up to mid-way point before I had to leave. It's actually not a bad little game. Very frustrating because of the controls. You really wish this game just had 8 way directional fire ala Contra. That alone would have alleviated a lot of frustration. That and the game suffers from some really bad slowdown. Still, it has a really frantic pace that differentiates it from other Action/Platformers on the NES. The music is pretty good and the art direction and the level design are gloriously 80's. Fun little game. It still doesn't make my top 10 list for NES action/platformers. It would squeak by on a top 15 list though.

 

[dcx4610]

For those that have done the NES RGB mod, based on these options, what are essential?

This my price breakdown
NESRGB Kit - $95 (You can also supply one you have already purchased)
NESRGB Installation - $40
NESRGB Palette Switch Installation - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN Video Port + Stereo Audio Port - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN + Audio Scart Cord -$35
Top Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $40
Top Loader Multiout Installation - $10
Front Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $30
Front Loader Multiout Installation - $20
Amplified Dual Mono - $5
"Stereo" Audio - $7
Switched Mono/Stereo Mod - $25
Recap Top Loader & new 7805 - $15

 

[ZealousD]

For those that have done the NES RGB mod, based on these options, what are essential?

This my price breakdown
NESRGB Kit - $95 (You can also supply one you have already purchased)
NESRGB Installation - $40
NESRGB Palette Switch Installation - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN Video Port + Stereo Audio Port - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN + Audio Scart Cord -$35
Top Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $40
Top Loader Multiout Installation - $10
Front Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $30
Front Loader Multiout Installation - $20
Amplified Dual Mono - $5
"Stereo" Audio - $7
Switched Mono/Stereo Mod - $25
Recap Top Loader & new 7805 - $15

Having a palette switch is very nice. Whether you choose the MiniDIN or the 3D Printed multiout is mostly a matter of preference. Baphomet here on GAF does RGB mods and he uses the Genesis 2 ports himself. The NESRGB actually gives you improved audio anyway, I think? Not sure the difference between that and amplified dual mono. I think "stereo" mods are dumb. These games weren't designed with stereo in mind so all you're doing is splitting channels into different speakers. It's not really true stereo and I don't think it sounds good at all.

 

[D.Lo]

For those that have done the NES RGB mod, based on these options, what are essential?

This my price breakdown
NESRGB Kit - $95 (You can also supply one you have already purchased)
NESRGB Installation - $40
NESRGB Palette Switch Installation - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN Video Port + Stereo Audio Port - $10
EvilTim's MiniDIN + Audio Scart Cord -$35
Top Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $40
Top Loader Multiout Installation - $10
Front Loader 3D Printed MultiOut - $30
Front Loader Multiout Installation - $20
Amplified Dual Mono - $5
"Stereo" Audio - $7
Switched Mono/Stereo Mod - $25
Recap Top Loader & new 7805 - $15

The bolded plus one choice of output plug.

Even Palete switch is optional. I have mine set to improved and just leave it there, it looks best to me and you don't want to be messing around all the time with it, you want to be playing games.

 

[ZealousD]

The bolded plus one choice of output plug.

Even Palete switch is optional. I have mine set to improved and just leave it there, it looks best to me and you don't want to be messing around all the time with it, you want to be playing games.

I think some games looks better in Improved and some look better in the Original palette. Almost nothing looks best in Garish. The switch is worth having, imo. You can change the palette on the fly so it's not like it's takes time away from you playing games. And $10 isn't going to break the bank when you're already looking to spend almost $200 on the mod. Better to get it now rather than having buyers remorse later.

 

[D.Lo]

I think some games looks better in Improved and some look better in the Original palette. Almost nothing looks best in Garish. The switch is worth having, imo. You can change the palette on the fly so it's not like it's takes time away from you playing games. And $10 isn't going to break the bank when you're already looking to spend almost $200 on the mod. Better to get it now rather than having buyers remorse later.

Personally not worried about the cost, more the ugly-ass switch that gets caught on things.

Unless you do what I did:

But I have found I just leave it set to improved all the time.

 

[IrishNinja]

"stereo" audio

 

[dcx4610]

Thanks for the replies. Any suggestion on the output? Any benefits of one vs. the other?

Any thoughts on Kevtris' HDMI mod that is imminent? I've really got the bug lately but it feels like a bad (or good depending n how you look at it) to be looking into mods.

- HDMI Mod
- HDMI NES Rebuild
- Analogue NT
- RGB Mod

 

[Polioliolio]

Will definitely convert one of my av famicoms for that savory HDMI mod.

 

[D.Lo]

"stereo" audio

lol

Thanks for the replies. Any suggestion on the output? Any benefits of one vs. the other?

Depends on the model.

AV Famicom (aka the best NES model) - use the existing Nintendo multi-out
Front Loader NES - Mini-din would be best IMO - go straight to XRGB with a $2 cable, or a cheap Scart cable if required.
Top Loader NES - 3D printed Nintendo multi-out is the best.
OG Fami - mini-din again.

I really can't imagine anything being better than Evil Tim's NESRGB. It's just so good and so flexible. Use it just like all other retro consoles (e.g. SNES).

 

[Timu]

I almost beaten the 3rd rat in Rat Race(Battletoads)...holy crap I really, really hate that rat, lol.

 

[Peltz]

The stereo mod never made any sense to me. I'd rather just send mono to both speakers than split the channels.

 

[Mzo]

I almost beaten the 3rd rat in Rat Race(Battletoads)...holy crap I really, really hate that rat, lol.

That's really far in! You're almost there.

I can understand people being mad at Battletoads for being hard but IMO it's a fantastic game.

 

[Timu]

That's really far in! You're almost there.

I can understand people being mad at Battletoads for being hard but IMO it's a fantastic game.

It took years to get that far, lol. Maybe next year I'll see Clinger Winger.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Probably a massive noob question:

I've started up a small NES collection, I'm not being super serious with it, just looking out for games I remember or which were well received, mostly cart only.

I'm in the UK and have a PAL NES which I've cleaned. I've also tightened the 72 pin and region modded it.

Question is: Some games are really hard to find in PAL and so I've bought several from the US. I understand that the result can be glitchy (my NTSC Platoon is glitch city) but I'm more concerned about the speed. I know PAL games typically run 17% slower on PAL systems than their NTSC counterparts do on NTSC systems. But if I run a NTSC game on a PAL system, it'll still only be 17% slower, right? It won't be any worse than the legit PAL version, graphical bugs aside?

 

[Khaz]

The stereo mod never made any sense to me. I'd rather just send mono to both speakers than split the channels.

This is my opinion as well. I may add two red and white RCA out on mine to connect the console directly to the amp and avoid interferences of any sort, but they would carry the same mono signal. I'd just mod the splitter in instead of having it outside.
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/nes_mod/nes_mod_en.php#2

 

[Mzo]

Did you know that FDS games came with tiny, beautiful, spined, full-colored booklets for manuals?

Because I sure did not.

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

Now I really really want one of those manuals. I just love the art style of the original Zelda. It never occurred to me before, but the style seems very reminiscent of the 70s LOTR animated movie.

 

[D.Lo]

Did you know that FDS games came with tiny, beautiful, spined, full-colored booklets for manuals?

Because I sure did not.

Lol just like anything, not all of them are that nice. Some don't have spines, some are not full colour.

Most Nintendo 'premium' games (ie not sports or other single disc side games) and all Konami games do though.

Single disk side games have no spine so you can fit two manuals in the box though, eg Mario 1 and 2 on one disk.

I'm posting about Konami manuals on my blog soon, I'll link when done.

 

[Timu]

Finally beaten the 3rd rat after 10 more tries and made it to Clinger Winger...and I really, really hate it, lol. This stage is fucking ridiculous!!! I can't see myself beating Battletoads anytime soon.

Lulz I been playing this game all week mainly having trouble with Stages 7, 9 and 10 and yet I decided to dedicate my time to it again even though I wasn't certainly going to beat it this week, this month or for months even. I should come back to it when I play those other 20+ NES games which all seem easier compared to this bare Ghosts N Goblins.

 

[dcx4610]

Finally beaten the 3rd rat after 10 more tries and made it to Clinger Winger...and I really, really hate it, lol. This stage is fucking ridiculous!!! I can't see myself beating Battletoads anytime soon.

Lulz I been playing this game all week mainly having trouble with Stages 7, 9 and 10 and yet I decided to dedicate my time to it again even though I wasn't certainly going to beat it this week, this month or for months even. I should come back to it when I play those other 20+ NES games which all seem easier compared to this bare Ghosts N Goblins.

Battletoads is without a doubt the hardest game I've ever played on the NES. Lots of trial and error, lots of buggy programming and very specific patterns to learn. I wouldn't sweat it.

I beat it with save states and even then it took hours and countless deaths. The concept and gameplay is fun but I have no idea what they were thinking with the execution. I don't know if it was simply bad programming or if they truly didn't want to see people make it past level 3. A complete waste of time.

 

[RadarScope1]

I recall Battletoads being a very popular and well-regarded game at the time. Were we all just fooled? Usually really hard or annoying games got beat down by word of mouth at some point. But Battletoads seems to beat those odds.

 

[D.Lo]

I recall Battletoads being a very popular and well-regarded game at the time. Were we all just fooled? Usually really hard or annoying games got beat down by word of mouth at some point. But Battletoads seems to beat those odds.

Lots of kids couldn't beat lots of games back then. It's not like today where any moron can beat every FPS which has checkpoints every three seconds (basically save states).

The first three levels are great, and it's a great looking game.

Reminds me of a contemporary review of Dracula XX on SNES which had a line something like 'The graphics get less interesting further in, but most people won't make it that far so no big deal' lol.

 

[Mzo]

I don't see any bad programming in Battletoads. I see a game that stomps all over the NES.

It demands a lot from you but also provides the tools you need to succeed. Unlimited continues or the ability to save progress at the beginning of each stage would be all it needs to bring it down to average difficulty.

 

[Polioliolio]

Yeah, I don't get the weird Battletoads backlash. It has always been one of the most fun playing games on the system.

I guess the meme went too far.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Probably a massive noob question:

I've started up a small NES collection, I'm not being super serious with it, just looking out for games I remember or which were well received, mostly cart only.

I'm in the UK and have a PAL NES which I've cleaned. I've also tightened the 72 pin and region modded it.

Question is: Some games are really hard to find in PAL and so I've bought several from the US. I understand that the result can be glitchy (my NTSC Platoon is glitch city) but I'm more concerned about the speed. I know PAL games typically run 17% slower on PAL systems than their NTSC counterparts do on NTSC systems. But if I run a NTSC game on a PAL system, it'll still only be 17% slower, right? It won't be any worse than the legit PAL version, graphical bugs aside?

Without wanting to be pushy, can anyone answer this? I can't seem to find an answer on google - just people saying that NTSC games will play slower on PAL systems. But PAL games play slower anyway so who cares?

Also found a repro translated Akira cart on ebay, which I tempted to get. Expensive tough.

 

[MikeHattsu]

Without wanting to be pushy, can anyone answer this? I can't seem to find an answer on google - just people saying that NTSC games will play slower on PAL systems. But PAL games play slower anyway so who cares?

Also found a repro translated Akira cart on ebay, which I tempted to get. Expensive tough.

There's certain PAL NES games that got the speed modified and/or sound fixed so it runs at correct speed when using the PAL game. If you get the US version of those games they will be worse than a PAL copy when played on a PAL NES.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Thanks for the response. I understand that there are only a handful of those games. Is that correct? and otherwise it should be OK, glitches aside?

 

[D.Lo]

Thanks for the response. I understand that there are only a handful of those games. Is that correct? and otherwise it should be OK, glitches aside?

Around 70% of Nintendo first party games have some optimisation, almost all Rare games, and most post-1988 Konami games. Plus the odd game from other companies.

Optimisation level and type varies, sometimes just music is sped up.

Maybe 60-100 games total had some optimisation?

 

[Charles Brandon]

I see. I guess I need a list in that case. Thanks for the input.

*hopes the NTSC metroid I just bought isn't on the list*

 

[Charles Brandon]

here is my current set-up (although my pile of games has grown a bit since I took this).

I know using a HDTV if bad form but I don't really want to relegate my NES to my office in the loft, which is what using a CRT would mean. Also the picture seems OK, at least to my uneducated eyes.

 

[D.Lo]

I see. I guess I need a list in that case. Thanks for the input.

*hopes the NTSC metroid I just bought isn't on the list*

PAL Metroid was optimised.

Honestly if you can, get yourself an NTSC console and leave the whole PAL nightmare behind. Even the best optimised PAL game is still not as it was originally designed.

 

[OnPoint]

I don't see any bad programming in Battletoads. I see a game that stomps all over the NES.

It demands a lot from you but also provides the tools you need to succeed. Unlimited continues or the ability to save progress at the beginning of each stage would be all it needs to bring it down to average difficulty.

1. Maybe it's not bad programming, but it's definitely a combination of bad design and poor/lack of playtesting. There are definitely some sections that are far too difficult for their own good for no good reason.

2. Unlimited continues would be step up, but it's a band aid over an open wound. Much like DCX above, I went through the game with save states a few months back and it was without a doubt the most frustrating experience I've ever had on the system. Unlimited continues would not bring it down to average difficulty. It would just remove the need to be an expert. It's still incredibly difficult.

3. Even giving you one life and no continues could be considered "the tools you need to succeed". The game is frequently unfair to the player in frustrating ways. Whatever tools it gives you, it covers them in oil and asks you to hold on tight while it attempts to yank them from your hands.

Maybe you're just really good at the game. That's a possibility. But I just don't agree with your points. There are several ways someone could make Battletoads better, and while Unlimited Continues would help, there are a number of other flaws. The brutally unforgiving design (Rat Race and more notably Clinger Wingers both stand out) in some spots is the bulk of my issue with the game, as those were the most frustrating parts to me even with unlimited tries.

 

[Charles Brandon]

PAL Metroid was optimised.

Honestly if you can, get yourself an NTSC console and leave the whole PAL nightmare behind. Even the best optimised PAL game is still not as it was originally designed.

yeah I do intend to. I was considering the retron 5 as well. I assume it's been discussed. The amazon reviews are not great!

 

[Peltz]

yeah I do intend to. I was considering the retron 5 as well. I assume it's been discussed. The amazon reviews are not great!

Many people here, myself included, very deeply frown upon the retron 5. Please do not get it. I'd rather you just hook up a laptop use emulators.

Anything is better than the Retron 5.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I thought that would be the reaction. Anyone got anything good to say about it?

 

[Mzo]

Maybe you're just really good at the game. That's a possibility. But I just don't agree with your points. There are several ways someone could make Battletoads better, and while Unlimited Continues would help, there are a number of other flaws. The brutally unforgiving design (Rat Race and more notably Clinger Wingers both stand out) in some spots is the bulk of my issue with the game, as those were the most frustrating parts to me even with unlimited tries.

I never thought I was particularly good at video games until I started reading the internet.

I guess there's a bar of entry for Battletoads. Ever since renting it as a kid I've seen it as an impressive tehnical showpiece and some of the most creative level design in the system. I don't have the full game memorized, but I earn enough lives bouncing crows to be able to relearn parts of Volkmyre's Inferno and the Rat Race on the fly.

IMO the Clinger Winger stage is pretty easy. The trick is that you're faster around corners than the static ball, so you have to learn the timing of switching which direction you're holding.

Note that all this would be heavily affected by any sort of input lag whatsoever, which would make the game nearly unplayable. I've never played it outside of consoles and a CRT, so that may be an issue for some.

ANYWAY, Beat FDS Metroid last night. The different sound effects and enhanced music are pretty great!

I'm totally fucking hooked on buying FDS games now. They are so kawaii it hurts.

Anyone know some good places to trawl for FDS games? EBay is a shithole, as usual.

 

[OnPoint]

I never thought I was particularly good at video games until I started reading the internet.

I guess there's a bar of entry for Battletoads. Ever since renting it as a kid I've seen it as an impressive tehnical showpiece and some of the most creative level design in the system. I don't have the full game memorized, but I earn enough lives bouncing crows to be able to relearn parts of Volkmyre's Inferno and the Rat Race on the fly.

IMO the Clinger Winger stage is pretty easy. The trick is that you're faster around corners than the static ball, so you have to learn the timing of switching which direction you're holding.

Note that all this would be heavily affected by any sort of input lag whatsoever, which would make the game nearly unplayable. I've never played it outside of consoles and a CRT, so that may be an issue for some.

I can agree that Battletoads is technical wizardry. The game has a huge amount of variety and does a lot of things I didn't think would be possible on the system knowing what I know about it as an adult. It's a really impressive game from that standpoint.

But your comment about the bar of entry? You're giving the game too much credit. It's simply too hard. I know the "trick" for Clinger Wingers. I've beaten it. I wouldn't say learning that you're faster around corners is a trick, either, it's a requirement. You have to use it to your advantage or its not beatable. Whether either of us have beaten it though doesn't change the fact that the course is designed mercilessly and it allows for a near zero amount of error on the user's end. It requires near-exact memorization to finish. Getting there with very few lives (I'd imagine most would) so deep into the game and losing because the level is unfair is like a kick to the crotch. It's demoralizing to work that hard to get that far and then have it all taken away because of how poorly and unfairly the stage plays.

As for input lag, I own the cart and still play on a CRT when I play my NES. The game is too hard even with no lag. The game was considered fun, but too hard when it came out in the early 90s when there was pretty much nothing but CRTs to play it on, so I don't think that's factoring in.

Make no mistake about it, I am not bad at games. Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden are fair, beatable games to me (NGs difficulty spikes exist, but I welcome them). Battletoads is on another level of difficulty.

 

[Mzo]

This is obviously subjective. I understand that you feel the game is too hard when you play it.

I think it's a fun challenge. Sometimes I beat it, sometimes I don't, but I have fun playing through the levels. There's no argument you're going to bring up where I suddenly have an epiphany that I've actually been miserable and struggling with one of my favorite games for years.

I'm glad it exists exactly as it is. Not every game has to be playtested and made to cater to the widest audience possible. Sometimes those are the ones that resonate the loudest with the people that love them.

 

[OnPoint]

This is obviously subjective. I understand that you feel the game is too hard when you play it.

I think it's a fun challenge. Sometimes I beat it, sometimes I don't, but I have fun playing through the levels. There's no argument you're going to bring up where I suddenly have an epiphany that I've actually been miserable and struggling with one of my favorite games for years.

I'm glad it exists exactly as it is. Not every game has to be playtested and made to cater to the widest audience possible. Sometimes those are the ones that resonate the loudest with the people that love them.

:lol Yeah, I get how opinions work and that we're all allowed to have different ones. I don't know why you would bother participating on a "discussion board" if you're going to reduce it to 'live and let live', especially after writing as much as you did (it wasn't much, but more than I'd expect with that mentality). But yeah, agree to disagree. I'm glad you like the game.

 

[Mzo]

I really just wanted to make the point that it's not badly programmed, which was a ridiculous claim. Except for player 2 not being able to move during the Clinger Winger stage in a co-op game...

I'll discuss level strategies or other aspects of the game all day long, I just felt that we had devolved into "it's too hard," "no it's not," and I didn't see a way out.

Also I love the understated title sequence before the full-blown overstated title sequence. I love the music. I love plugging in my controller to the 2P slot and playing through as Zitz because he looks better.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah, the opening of the game is awesome. There was clearly a lot of love put into the game's universe and setting. I also still can't get over how awesome the perspective shift in the first boss battle is. It was so creative. It really had a ton of awesome ideas.

It would go down as one of my favorites ever if the things I see as flaws could be softened or changed up, so I do understand where you're coming from. If I were able to be good at it, I'd love it.

 

[Timu]

IMO the Clinger Winger stage is pretty easy. The trick is that you're faster around corners than the static ball, so you have to learn the timing of switching which direction you're holding.

Maybe it'll get easier once I get the hang of it when I get back to the game later on, but like OnPoint said, it's unforgiving when it comes to error and a few mistakes equals death. Mastering the corners requires near perfection because slowing down at any point pretty much means you'll die nearly instantly. As for someone who got there for the 1st time, I'm not used to the layout of the stage and since I was running out of lives I would probably not had made it passed the level for the 1st time(like with levels 7, 9 and 10).

I'll try this stage again months from now though!

 

[D.Lo]

ANYWAY, Beat FDS Metroid last night. The different sound effects and enhanced music are pretty great!

I'm totally fucking hooked on buying FDS games now. They are so kawaii it hurts.

Anyone know some good places to trawl for FDS games? EBay is a shithole, as usual.

Ebay is fine, just be patient and bargains can be had. Thought just like everything. Prices are going up. I got many of my games brand new for cheap 10-15 years ago.

Also yahoo auctions, but I only use it for big or expensive purchases given all the forwarding charges.

 

[Mzo]

Japan Game Stock has some FDS games complete at pretty decent prices. Just wondering if there are any other online stores people know about selling these things.

You can get a good deal once in a while on eBay, agreed, but the prices suck in general compared to Yahoo Auctions Japan.

 

[Timu]

I thought that would be the reaction. Anyone got anything good to say about it?

It plays a wide variety of games at least which is the best thing about it, everything else though...