gutter_trash
Banned
Edrogan... doing Putin's work of stirring shit in Europe
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Netherlands stops Turkish foreign minister's plane from landing
- Thread starter TVexperto
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SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah I lol'd. I rather eat those oranges or press them for juice but thats me. It just looks stupid, like i'm watching something from a bygone era.
It's Erdogan by the way. 😉
Bitch Pudding
Member
Pah, the moon doesn't care for barking dogs. But he surely doesn't forget it, either.
Our famous stately morals shine as bright as during the world wars. Made us a nice fortune back then, maybe it will work again!
I mean, the Dutch did spit on Rudi Völler's hair that one time. 🤔
leatherhat
Member
Not surprising at all. France did as well.
And it was a non-event.
leatherhat
Member
I wouldn't consider Turks holding a rally to give a dictator more power a non event. Bad enough if it was happening in Turkey but it was happening in France.
He did his rally and now he's gone. French people are voting in 2 months. No thank you. We don't need this pollution.
gutter_trash
Banned
Good. It's a shame not more countries followed though.
Anyway, I hope some of you guys got the orange-stabbing bastards back by eating Turkish dishes (or a turkey at least).
ClosingADoor
Member
Front National not blaming the other parties for rolling over and allowing it? Seems like an easy attack for them during election time.
At least the one in France was before the escalation here. But Sweden's was today then I guess? The EU should be united in these things. You can't have a country bully and threaten one of the member states like this. This is one of the things I wished the EU was stronger in: a shared foreign policy.
Forgot his name, but a Dutch-Turkish guy just on TV had a good point: this side of the Turkish community has a lot of issues to mobilize themselves to march and protest if it's about equality and other social issues, but when Ankara gives the command they're suddenly on the streets, flag in hand.
Caayn
Member
Mayor Aboutaleb, of Rotterdam, admits that the special police units whom captured Turkish minister Kaya where given the permission to shoot if necessary. He says that decision was taken because minister Kaya was protected by 12 unknown men who could possible carry firearms and they couldn't get any clarification as to who these men were. When they asked the Turkish consul General about it he denied that there was even meeting and later refused to even pick-up the phone.
http://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2163022-aboutaleb-er-was-toestemming-om-te-schieten.html
http://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2163022-aboutaleb-er-was-toestemming-om-te-schieten.html
BrassDragon
Member
Before people get indignant, some nuance from someone who has been involved with similar actions:
The Dutch threshold for using tactics like automatic weapons and penetrative munition is extremely high and such force escalation is not at the discretion of police leadership - only the national equivalent of the district attorney can give permission to use special tactics and weapons. When specialized units at arrive the scene, they need a 'direct action plan' - what if shit goes down before they have time to assess and plan their intervention? Likely they asked for permission just in case so there wouldn't be any legal confusion if shooting started before they were ready to act with non-lethal tactics. This was a precaution, not a statement of intent to employ lethal force.
The main reason why special tactics units were on the scene was probably because they train to get people out of barricaded vehicles (shattering windows, picking door locks etc.), which is not something the rank and file is equipped to do. In my personal opinion, the Turks made a tense situation even more dangerous by not being clear about the security detail involved.
Good post.
Caayn
Member
Thank you for the clarification.
YourMaster
Member
As somebody with no involvement or special knowledge of these types of situations at all: I guess that it's not just the armored cars but the fact that they had 12 possibly armed guards there made the situation already quite unusual.
MisterFalcon
Member
This is a great picture of the situation:
(the woman in the car is not the minister but her assistant, the minister is not visible in this picture)
(the woman in the car is not the minister but her assistant, the minister is not visible in this picture)
Stereogatari
Banned
It's a show for votes for everyone involved
Yes I'm including the Netherlands in that.
Yes I'm including the Netherlands in that.
Actually almost all party leader were unanimous (for once) that it was a bad decision to let them do their rally and that Erdogan should fuck off. Only Hamon said everybody has a right to a platform but that comparing people to nazis is a no-no.
Calm waterfall
Banned
Lol, Erdogan is such a tool.
France did this to spite Le Pen.
so, we will see this kind of comments daily from him until the referendum?
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
Chuckie
Member
so, we will see this kind of comments daily from him until the referendum?
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
Wow. A Turkish president accusing another people of genocide is pretty rich considering they are still denying the Armenian genocide.
Don't even have to go back to the armernian genocide. Just look at what happens in the south east of turkey right now
so, we will see this kind of comments daily from him until the referendum?
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
Erdogan, what is: Armenian Genocide?
sechsterangriff
Member
so, we will see this kind of comments daily from him until the referendum?
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
Now that's just precious...
Man I wish the Turkish people would give him a cold shower in the referendum but I guess that's unlikely.
Polls are already in our favour. Mom works in the Women's Branch in the main opposition party so I get all the hot street scoops.
He will get his in the referandum. Even his people are saying enough is fucking enough.
Not sure whether this has been posted yet.
http://www.ad.nl/dossier-rel-met-turkije/waarom-fidan-ekiz-zo-boos-is-over-de-turkijerel~a443a7af/
I would be surprised if she hasn't​ already been threatened since she wrote this.
http://www.ad.nl/dossier-rel-met-turkije/waarom-fidan-ekiz-zo-boos-is-over-de-turkijerel~a443a7af/
I would be surprised if she hasn't​ already been threatened since she wrote this.
The real question is whether that's going to stop him, or not.
We think that will be the start of AKP's downfall. So many people are scared and hopeless. Erdogan losing the refererandum will ignite the spark and the fuel the fire. People will know that even Erdogan can be beaten.
On a different note, here's how the Erdogan and his fuckbois sees Europe (probably):
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Regginator
Member
so, we will see this kind of comments daily from him until the referendum?
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/841606653027987457
He's not wrong here, you know. Despite his own fair share of shittiness, the Dutch role in the Srebrenica genocide is a huge scandal that still hasn't been solved properly.
Chairmanchuck
Member
As is the Armenian genocide. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Regginator
Member
Hypocrite, sure. But does that make his comments about the Srebrenica genocide any less true?
You`re falling for his bait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
When criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[1][2] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[3] a logical fallacy which attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.
Honestly this reality that we are living in is getting more absurd every single day.
Erdogan calling the Dutch nazi's is something that is hard to explain to a country where still plenty people live that were alive during WWII (among others my own grandmother who had to witness both the horrors but also occasional humanity of the nazi occupation).
But Erdogan calling the Dutch out for genocide is just incomprehensible. Still little disappointed that the EU and NATO isn't responding more harshly to Erdogan.
Erdogan calling the Dutch nazi's is something that is hard to explain to a country where still plenty people live that were alive during WWII (among others my own grandmother who had to witness both the horrors but also occasional humanity of the nazi occupation).
But Erdogan calling the Dutch out for genocide is just incomprehensible. Still little disappointed that the EU and NATO isn't responding more harshly to Erdogan.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Are you fucking kidding me?
No, because while there is a grave responsibility that falls on Dutchbat and the Dutch government for what happened there, as well as on the NATO command, the Dutch did in fact, not commit genocide in Sebrenica, under any stretch of the imagination.
If you really wanted to call out The Netherlands about war crimes, you'd need to point to the Indonesian Revolution.
Regginator
Member
I understand, but the whole point of "Whataboutism" (didn't know it was actually called that) is being blind of the other party. And I'm not blind to what Erdogan is doing and how hypocrite it all is, just stating that he's not reaching into thin air or anything. I also find it ironic that that very same case of "Whataboutism" is used now, saying "how can he talk about the Srebrenica genocide when he still doesn't acknowledge the Armenian genocide". In the core it's the same logical fallacy and hypocrisy from that wiki page.
Definitely, the atrocities in the East Indies were even worse, but I was specifically talking about the context of Erdogan's remarks.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Edit: You know what, never fucking mind.
What context? What has genocide to do with the current issue? Why would he bring that up? It's as relevant as saying "Well, the Dutch traded slaves! Think about that!"
Regginator
Member
Why? Because he's a populist dictator who wants to sway public appeal in his favour. Why else? So I think we're having a huge misunderstanding here that seems to get bigger and bigger without actually understanding each other. I was specifically talking about the context of that genocide remark he made, and how he's not wrong that the Netherlands were somewhat partly responsible for not protecting more Bosnians (after which you linked me to Whataboutism, interesting page btw), not about the whole political and diplomatic shitfest we've been experiencing the last couple of days.
Who cares that "he is not wrong?" (he is actually, but thats not my point) The fact that you acknowledge his statement means that the logical fallacy he is using is working and you are actually considering what he says, which is totally out of context (and incorrect as well). Sure, a lot of people will dismiss this stuff quickly (as they should), but there will always be some people who will be influenced by these kind of statements. (its the sole reason why Trump twitters).
Erdogan could have said in a hypothetical remark against Germany/Merkel "The German people once followed Hitler so why should we take their leaders seriously?" and he would be 'not wrong' in a historic perspective, but actually comparing those words to the current situation is just too absurd and not even worth acknowledging.
Erdogan could have said in a hypothetical remark against Germany/Merkel "The German people once followed Hitler so why should we take their leaders seriously?" and he would be 'not wrong' in a historic perspective, but actually comparing those words to the current situation is just too absurd and not even worth acknowledging.
#1 Srebenica is not a genocide, it's a massacre in a wartorn country. Look up genocide in a dictionary.
#2 If point #1 was true, so if it was a genocide: the Dutch did not commit this genocide, the Serbians did.
#3 Even if #1 and #2 were true: The Dutch who failed to act were there under UN command, not under Dutch command, so even if they did the genocide and not the Serbians they wouldn't be the ones responsible.
Apart from the whole reasoning being a logical fallacy (Tu Quoque) it is also a false equivalence.. another logical fallacy. Making the whole line of reasoning totally absurd.
Gee dude.
Always-honest
Banned
What the hell is this Erdogan on about? Why the fuck even bring up Srebrenica?
Wow... It's a shame the Turks have to deal with an aggressive dictator like him. Many people will be unhappy because of the power-hungry rants of a fool.
Wow... It's a shame the Turks have to deal with an aggressive dictator like him. Many people will be unhappy because of the power-hungry rants of a fool.
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