Yeah, all the KS exclusives for what I would consider essential characters pretty much killed what interest I had in the game.
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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic
- Thread starter Karkador
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Yeah, all the KS exclusives for what I would consider essential characters pretty much killed what interest I had in the game.
Gaming Truth
Member
I honestly think Trickerion is completely the opposite of how you described it mechanically. I've only played one game, so it should get better with time, but it's AP hell to me.
Turn order matters, a lot, and you have to wait your turn to process most things. Although pretty thematic, the mechanics are overly complex for what it's supposed to be and the game is too short for what it puts you through.
That being said: Played one game (the basic version without the alley). The rules took around 45 minutes to explain, the game was .... two hours or so for four players (one player quit at the end of turn one).
I want to play it again to see if it was a really bad experience, but I can tell you all of the reasons why my first experience was a bad one
I was just going from list on the back of the box...or so I thought. I spent some time searching and I can't find ANY pictures of the back of Trickerion's box.
BattleMonkey
Member
sure? They are nothing alike
I wouldn't go so far as that. They're both very similar in terms of gameplay and strategies, despite the streamlined components and simultaneous play introduced by RftG; as such, PR is substantially easier to teach, more fiddly, and lengthier.
But those aren't really differences with the core of the game. What differentiates the two more markedly is that PR is largely stable (beyond new player disruption) whereas RftG is largely dynamic (due to randomized set-up and the unpredictable nature of which synergies will be available over the course of the game).
PR also has a seating order issue that is very problematic.
As for having both, I can only say that I've rarely played PR since RftG came out in 2007, but it was one of my favorites and most played games prior.
Rudimental
Member
I only have Pamir and I've only played the one game in total, since I haven't really had any time to play in the last few months. So, I can only tell you what it was like. With 2, it felt very much like jousting with your opponent, where you're trying to outmaneuver each other both in the direct conflict with spies/armies and the indirect through purchasing cards/commerce action/etc... You can really tear into one another, especially with astute use of regime-change cards. Things felt very fluid and swingy, but not in an arbitrary or random way.
Their development paths are connected. Card game was being created for Puerto Rico which split into San Juan and Race.
I played Caverna a couple times this week. I really like that one but damn is it a steep ramp. Reading through the full set of cave rooms is a nightmare. Also the rule book says experienced players should easily crack 100 points but our best score (mine) in the two plays was 76.
the final sentinals of the multiverse expansion kickstarter is live.
I will likely end up backing at $139 as I want that box to hold everything and all the promo cards >.<;
I will likely end up backing at $139 as I want that box to hold everything and all the promo cards >.<;
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I'm fascinated by this game, but I think I'll go digital with it since I don't have anyone to play the physical game with. So glad to see that KS doing well since people seem to love the game.
Is Dead of Winter worth it? It's so damn expensive here but I want to play it..
One of my favorite games (for reference, my other favorites are Agricola, Jaipur, Citadels, Dominion, Codenames & Spyfall). How much does it cost where you live?
Gaming Truth
Member
I know, I doubt your source, not you! I like to think I play heavy games like BrewCrafters, Terra Mystica, Civ: The Board Game, etc. I play them fine and enjoy them.
Then there are needlessly complex games. In this category lives What's He Building There? and Trickerion. So much complexity, you're brain-dead afterwards, but you have to ask yourself: For what?
Kitbash
Member
Probably because the box weighs a ton and there's no insert to keep the components in place when you flip it over. Here's one for you.
I haven't had a chance to play it yet. It requires a pretty large table and I'm still building mine. The backlog is getting out of control...
Thank you! And yeah, it claims "worker placement", "simultaneous action selection", and "minimal player downtime".
Gaming Truth
Member
Heh, I see it too. I remember now, I never looked at the box's bottom because it had so much stuff in it:
worker placement vs. minimal player downtime: contradictory in this game. Order matters when placing your worker in one of the various zones. And for practically all zones, not only is being first important, but figuring out what to do takes a large effort.
Example:
- You're "thinking" of making a new magic trick. Guess what, other people might be too during the "simultaneous action selection" phase. There's a center pool of possible spells and multiple players might be looking through them.
- You're "thinking" of performing a show. Other people might be too. Performing early incurs an inherent penalty, but you can choose from a selection of acts that may or may not have been constructed yet. Those acts have a convoluted chain system involved that could also net you bonus crystals, but take forever to go through all the possible chain scenarios.
*shudder*
Maybe I wasn't ready for the replay yet ...
BomberMouse
Member
Play the superior Uwe farming game then, Agricola. You just need to read a few cards per game.
Hehe...I do feel like for most people Caverna "replaced" Agricola. Agricola can be really swingy with the cards but it's really what I love most about it. Especially when you're playing with other non-expert players. I don't think I have the energy/time to learn/teach/play another full Rosenberg game either.
About 65 new and 40-50 used. I have Citadels and I've played Dominion out of those games you mentioned and I like them. I prefer co-op games so I guess I'm just going to bite it and get it.
Is Dead of Winter worth it? It's so damn expensive here but I want to play it..
How many do you have to play with and are they good at getting into the theme?
With two its absolute garbage, and with more it is extremely dependant on who you play with. I found it a very overrated game, but I have a feeling if you get the right group the game might be fun.
Hehe...I do feel like for most people Caverna "replaced" Agricola. Agricola can be really swingy with the cards but it's really what I love most about it. Especially when you're playing with other non-expert players. I don't think I have the energy/time to learn/teach/play another full Rosenberg game either.
Thing is though I feel Caverna feels so overbloated. Its almost like Agricola is a streamlined Caverna for me...
Anyway the best Uwe games are At The Gates of Loyang and Le Havre anyway ;P
toddhunter
Member
I've only really heard bad things about Trickerion. Would be interested in impressions if you take the plunge
Suburbia looks interesting. I had heard it is good, but don't know much about it. Where do you think it sits best within 1-4 players?
I think this thread has scared me off of Trickerion. =P 45-minute rule fests are rough.I've only really heard bad things about Trickerion. Would be interested in impressions if you take the plunge
Suburbia looks interesting. I had heard it is good, but don't know much about it. Where do you think it sits best within 1-4 players?
I've only played Suburbia twice now, both 2-player games. I won both but I feel I have a knack for this sort of economy management. I'm hoping to try 4-player this weekend. It's satisfying to see a zoned city come together, and each game is a bit different with random tiles coming into play.
Well we have a group of about 3-5 players and play weekly games like Arkham Horror, Betrayal at House on the Hill, Power Grid, Robinson Crusoe, Pandemic, Ticket to Ride, Catan, Bang etc. and I really want to have a zombie-themed game.
In that case I think you will enjoy it.
woo and indeed hoo
Banned
Dead of Winter is not really a zombie themed game though. The zombies are more incidental than anything else. Any generic threat could have replaced them and it wouldn't really have altered the game. The essence of Dead of Winter is that it is a co-operative game where each player has their own separate agenda and one of the players may or may not be a traitor. That is what makes it so well regarded not the zombie aspect. That is my assessment after playing it a few times anyway so I am happy to be advised differently by far more experienced Dead of Winter players. If that balance of co-operative/competitive/possible betrayal interests you then by all means try the game. I could not whole heartedly recommend you purchase the game first without trying it though given that you say that it would be expensive for you and how I feel about the game [I only rate it as a 6 on the BGG scale]. I would have thought that there are far more worthy zombie games with a stronger zombie theme to them than Dead of Winter but the choice is yours.
BomberMouse
Member
Hehe...I do feel like for most people Caverna "replaced" Agricola. Agricola can be really swingy with the cards but it's really what I love most about it. Especially when you're playing with other non-expert players. I don't think I have the energy/time to learn/teach/play another full Rosenberg game either.
I love those cards, pulling those combos as you go is awesome. Caverna is for those that can't play a farming game and need dwarfs and adventuring.
Same, that wall of tiles is boring. The original farming trilogy is the best ag > loyang > ora et labora > lh > glass road > arle > caverna. Haven't played merkator
BattleMonkey
Member
So Privateer Press, is now doing kickstarter for one of it's board games. What a joke. I would love to see the hypocritical shit storm if Games Workshop attempted this.
One of our favorites. Did you start with the starter game or go straight into the full game? We played 5-6 games before going into the full version I think
And as many times as we've played, neither I nor my wife have exceeded, I believe, 91. Definitely never cracked 100.
I really hate this "pre-order" system that some companies use Kickstarter for. Part of owning a company is risk. There is absolutely no doubt that a Uwe Rosenberg or Stephan Feld game is going to turn a profit, so why put it up on Kickstarter to begin with?
Polioliolio
Member
Because there's nothing stopping them.
It's almost like there needs to be another site, like kickstarter, that really is just for indies, and not companies that already have millions of dollars.
Gaming Truth
Member
In terms of scalability, it's a lot like Ascension and Innovation. Very tight and fun with two, plays fine with three or four, but a little "control" with luck goes away because it's harder to plan.
Example: In Ascension, you might be focusing on acquiring and using combat cards, or maybe you're going Void to make a small, efficient deck. With two players, the chances your cards are there for you to purchase is pretty likely. When up at four, it's harder to plan for that because you're not likely the only player with that strategy. Same game, you just might be "unlucky" to not be able to exact what you're planning on doing. Hopefully that makes sense
BattleMonkey
Member
Some people just love kickstarter, it's like gambling or something and they seem to want everything kickstarted because they have a warped notion that they are gonna get more value buying an untested product and getting some "free" stuff or a handful of exclusives. Yet it feels like more of these types are just being suckered into the "must buy everything" mentality as they also go all in on every add on they can grab too.
Kickstarters are feeling like F2P gaming, where the companies are trying to catch the whales who just splurge on the limited time "offer".
I think it's less about guaranteeing the money and more about price discrimination. If someone's willing to pay you twice what your game is actually worth to get some little add-on, why not find a way to take that money?
Yeah we did one with the smaller set and then went to the full set. All of those "victory points for Stone / ore / wood / etc" rooms are pretty good, helps you do a strategy like specializing in a specific resource. It's all those other ones like a room that can hold two cows. It's v hard to figure out if that's actually worth the cost or not and its v hard to remember that's an option when you're trying to decide whether to build fences or not.
toddhunter
Member
Makes perfect sense, thanks.
Also bear in mind that with 2 players, you only use about 15 out of 30+ tiles in each of three decks in Suburbia. So for any given playthrough, you might not even have a waterfront realty or EPA office show up.
I agree with you. I mean, hey, it's capitalism.
However, I still feel it's rather scummy and would never kickstart a product from a known publisher/designer because I know that I'll be able to pick it up from CoolStuff for quite a bit less shortly after the KS ends.
antiquegamer
Member
Yep, if your group like these game, you guys will eat up Dead of Winter. Though as someone mention it is more of a hidden agenda game than a full blown killing zombies game. It is also a pseudo co-op as everyone has their own objective beside the group one.
Polioliolio
Member
I've been watching that one for awhile now. Looks good, but I was worried it might just be a bit too child oriented. Eager to hear impressions and how it holds up after a few games.
toddhunter
Member
Same, although child/family oriented would be a plus in my case. a more relaxed puzzle like game would be a good addition to the lineup.
Seems hard to find though.
Ordered Thunderbolt/Apache Leader. Have been wanting to jump in on one of these games and finally pulled the trigger. Hopping to find a place to set it up and leave it up for a week or so in order to play through a campaign. I love that the playtime is 30-60 mins per mission without mentioning that one mission is a very small part of a campaign, lol. WARGAMES AMIRITE?!
oh nice report back. i've been looking hard at that and the field commander series but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
i find with things like cruel necessity the campaign is really three sessions, but i feel fulfilled after the small session. finally got a bigger desk set up that I can keep a game out on for as long as i want.
I will report back. The games seems to be praised as highly as FC:Nappy so hopefully I have a similar experience with this.
Seeing as the english Kanai edition seems impossible to find where I am, does the Japanese version of Love Letter differ in any way from the English version?
Was wanting to pick it up and the original artwork is by far the best of all versions, and since it's not a text intensive game was considering just getting the Japanese version.
Was wanting to pick it up and the original artwork is by far the best of all versions, and since it's not a text intensive game was considering just getting the Japanese version.
I enjoy Karuba. Absolute Zero interaction so if that's not your thing then leave well alone. Feels like a thinky bingo.
Haba has a small expansion to download/laminate which is neat. Adds a few bonus scores.
HABA's other family game is Adventureland, this has some interaction and is also a good game. Designed by Krammer/Kiesling. Has 3 different rule sets for different feels.
HABA's 3rd game in there new line up is Spookies. I don't own that one but might pick it up for the completionist in me. Push your luck dice game.
woo and indeed hoo
Banned
I agree that the artwork is far nicer than the westernised version but am surprised that you can't get the Kanai edition as it was freely available not long back. May I ask where you are? The rules are pretty straight forward for Love Letter so it is more the theme that one prefers than anything, minor differences between the different themed versions aside.
SInce I'm already here, do you guys have any recommendations for 2 player games?
Ideally ones with little to no text, English board games are difficult to find around here and unfortunately my Japanese reading skills are extremely basic.
If anyone knows of stores in Tokyo with good selections of English games that'd be most appreciated, only one I know off is Yellow Submarine.
I'm in Japan, which is why I was considering the Japanese version in the first place, very easy to find.
Locally I could only find the english versions of Munchkin/Batman/Hobbit.
Amazon.co.jp has a third party selling the Kanai edition, but for about $80 dollars which is a big no. They also have the
Ideally ones with little to no text, English board games are difficult to find around here and unfortunately my Japanese reading skills are extremely basic.
If anyone knows of stores in Tokyo with good selections of English games that'd be most appreciated, only one I know off is Yellow Submarine.
I'm in Japan, which is why I was considering the Japanese version in the first place, very easy to find.
Locally I could only find the english versions of Munchkin/Batman/Hobbit.
Amazon.co.jp has a third party selling the Kanai edition, but for about $80 dollars which is a big no. They also have the