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New Harvard Poll says 57% of Americans view Black Lives Matter negatively
- Thread starter theignoramus
- Start date
Renegade Frost
Banned
the point of a protest is to make the intended target feel powerless and allow the people protesting to be heard
It sure does, because y'all are messed up in the head. Justifying slavery and devaluing a black persons life more than a damn animal (agriculture industry is just as bad anyway)
takes a profoundly sick civilization and y'all are sick.
It's almost like disenfranchised groups with sympathize other disenfranchised groups
Jews being racist is quite literally the single most hilarious piece of Irony I've ever seen.
Almost as bad as those italians and iraqi catholics getting deported after they voted for the Donald.
Oh and Gandhi. Lmao. Delusional fool.
But blackness is the stick that every culture measures a stick against because at the heart of it people care too much about what other people think and are scared of being treated badly.
In reality, being black truly is a gift, because it teaches you how to be strong, something a lot of you folks with different types of privilege have yet to learn.
Khaos Kontrol
Banned
Understandable. As a black person, I'm not a big fan of the movement myself.
Renegade Frost
Banned
are you aware of how they're funded?
stop trying to make excuses and justify deplorable behavior from incompetent and conniving humans
Because people are sheep and they dont want to deal with the baggage of the label.
Why have white folks simped themselves so well that they have a tinier ego than Donald Trump himself does?
They feel so unimportant and insignificant that they literally had to enslave other people to feel good about themselves.
Weak.
tearsintherain
Member
It probably would have helped to have had clear actionable goals from the very beginning. As someone said before, "stop killing black kids" is a great message but going from a guy sitting in his underwear watching TV to that is not a clear path. If you just tell someone they need to do something to fix a problem but don't really lay out ANYTHING to go from A to B, they are going to just walk away after saying some platitudes.
Even the BLM website has basically nothing
http://blacklivesmatter.com/getinvolved/
"Get involved in the fight for black lives. Contact a local chapter, make a donation, make a purchase, find resources and actions."
What the heck? What kind of action plan is that?
Contrast that with Campaign Zero, which has advocated for years now on reducing police violence and has EXTREMELY clear and direct policy goals that anyone can get involved with if they want, such as community oversight and talking points during election cycles. Many communities ARE doing a lot of these things, it just takes a lot of time and involves finding bad cop 1, kicking them out, finding bad cop 2, kicking them out, etc and is met with huge resistance and inertia from the police department.
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/
Even the BLM website has basically nothing
http://blacklivesmatter.com/getinvolved/
"Get involved in the fight for black lives. Contact a local chapter, make a donation, make a purchase, find resources and actions."
What the heck? What kind of action plan is that?
Contrast that with Campaign Zero, which has advocated for years now on reducing police violence and has EXTREMELY clear and direct policy goals that anyone can get involved with if they want, such as community oversight and talking points during election cycles. Many communities ARE doing a lot of these things, it just takes a lot of time and involves finding bad cop 1, kicking them out, finding bad cop 2, kicking them out, etc and is met with huge resistance and inertia from the police department.
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/solutions/
Campaign Zero is a great example of effective protester organization and action.
I've always advocated BLM's message, but at the end of day screaming and yelling and blocking traffic, etc, while not actually doing anything productive is only going to lead to the result we're seeing in these polls.
Mysterious
Banned
I think a lot of the "extreme left SJW" types (mainly on the Internet and social media tbh) are contributing to a negative image towards all contemporary progressive groups. People seem to only look at the bad apples.
Renegade Frost
Banned
Well, this is what happens when you have white billionaires throwing money at an organization with decentralized leadership and policy goals that aim at a wider community with a little focus beyond a couple policy goals they outlined. Too much time lending their megaphone to other causes
Which is why always donate to the NAACP instead.
But let's leave the critiquing of the organization to other people who actually have skin in the game rather than disingenuous and hypocritical Caucasoids
The irony is half of those comments come from bots straight outta the russian propoganda machine lmfao
Speaking of which, why does Putin need all this money and power for?
World domination?
Everyday there re chapters doing things from after school programs, to adovacating for bail reform, to giving talks, etc. But it is not really covered.
Tailoring their work and message to the white gaze is a losing proposition. Cause it will never work because the demands to be acceptable will be ever shifting, and a lot of them will never care no matter what or worse get enraged for simply mentioning it
Tailoring their work and message to the white gaze is a losing proposition. Cause it will never work because the demands to be acceptable will be ever shifting, and a lot of them will never care no matter what or worse get enraged for simply mentioning it
Well that would be a terrible attitude to take towards the subject.
That's pretty staggering considering the huge amount of evidence to to contrary.
So what's up here, straight up ignorance or "fuck you I got mine".
Why do I suspect the polling mix to be a factor. I strongly suspect that "Independent" post 2016 means someone who voted for Trump yet doesn't want to admit to it.
Given this skew, the majority of white, right leaning voters not knowing it caring about justice for all, including minority groups is not exactly a shock. After all, if you're unhappy about something, you're meant to shout at your right wing radio hosts, not actually do anything about it.
BLM, like any other activist group has people more content to drive further division, but the vast majority want actual equality in the justice system in the US. The fact that the people who are being favoured don't know or care about this then hit out against the people, rather than question their own bias is sad, but all too predicable.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Maybe it would help if Tom Hanks played MLK.
Or even Obama? That way they can relate to him easier.
Or even Obama? That way they can relate to him easier.
So you are a freerider then...
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
This isn't about ignoring both sides of an issue. My point is: if, after thinking about both sides, you're going to resolve to the "moderate" shit, then you haven't thought carefully about both sides.
The sides have a clear distinction, and so the middle is not a legitimate position because it's essentially contradictory.
Side A: Black people should be shot down in the street like dogs
Side B: Black people should be tried fairly
Anti-black prejudice is so ingrained and latent that there's always going to be some initial push back against any social movement with the word 'black' in it, plain and simple. It's a statement that's so direct and to the point, that even the most kindly liberals will be taken aback by it.
Ironically (or maybe not) there's quite an overlap between people who object to the phrase and those who complain about "PC culture". I thought we should tell it like it is? Black lives matter.
Ironically (or maybe not) there's quite an overlap between people who object to the phrase and those who complain about "PC culture". I thought we should tell it like it is? Black lives matter.
theignoramus
Member
America realised how deeply fraudulent it looked barking about the evils and tyranny of Communism in Europe and Asia while images went out of its own citizens receiving night sticks to the head, firehoses to the chest and attack dogs at their heels for wanting to sit in the same diner as a White person.
There was real fear that the USA's enemies at the time would exploit its racial conflicts to America's detriment.
The USA has always been fairly sensitive about its international image, thats why Malcolm X wanted to exploit that sensitivity and go straight to the UN about American human rights violations.
I doubt it would pass today
brianmcdoogle
Member
Johnson kept leaning over people and exposing his massive penis to them.
Side A: Black people should be shot down in the street like dogs
Side B: Black people should be tried fairly
People who do not understand BLM movement are dense or straight up racist.
"hur hur ALL LIVE MATTER!!" yea no shit but apparently in reality they (black people in the US) are treated like shit and even when they are killed, those killers get no jail. No justice is served. But go ahead and be an ass about it and tell me otherwise.
"hur hur ALL LIVE MATTER!!" yea no shit but apparently in reality they (black people in the US) are treated like shit and even when they are killed, those killers get no jail. No justice is served. But go ahead and be an ass about it and tell me otherwise.
A combination of careful writing, most notably with the act avoided going directly targeting the systemic racism/racist laws that lead to segregation in northern states like housing, coupled with LBJ's lengthy history in Congress to know all the tricks to get it through with as little reworking of the bill as possible and Johnson championing the bill as what JFK would have wanted following his tragic death (the bill did start with him, after all).
entremet
Member
Johnson was a masterful politician.
Sunster
Member
I agree black people should have equal rights and all, I'm not a racist! But MLK is radical and he does more harm to their cause than good. Also, what's their message?
hydragonwarrior
Member
Republicans control the damn media, especially when it comes to "serious" news, so it's not too surprising.
You proud of yourself?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
That asshole did nobody any favors.
It's hard when some people would rather be #2 in the views of white people than standing equal to them.
The divide and conquer is even more prevalent in Asia with Western Hegemony.
jack_package_200
Banned
Honestly this should be everyone's reaction to Boogie and his bullshit
MWS Natural
Member
The opioid epidemic whipping out large numbers of white Americans in rural communities.
Mammoth Jones
Member
They're not dense. They just don't care and do not want to hear uppity black people complaining. If we ain't buck dancing for their entertainment we aren't of any use.
So we can go run with a football, or box, or rap...but the moment someone try to raise awareness about these issues? Hell no. It's taken as a personal attack.
Yep. Blackness is the foil by which non black people measure their humanity. Anti-blackness is ubiquitous.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Pretty much.
The movement could have been named "Currently Black people are disproportionately treated killed by the police in the United Stated of America and this movement is to bring that awareness to you. We ask you to stand with us and say please stop killing us because of your irrational fears of us based on our skin color"
And a fuck load of Americans would still oppose it just as much as "Black Lives Matter"
KirbYuuYuu
Member
And then they forgot, and here we are today.
Ok. What do you think both sides are and what are their positions?
Here's what it looks like to me.
BLM side (not official, just my interpretation):
-Black men are killed extrajudicially way out of proportion to the population (and intrajudicially, but that's not really something BLM is focusing on). This includes both killings by police officers in the course of their duty and by ordinary citizens invoking "stand your ground" or similar. The people being killed range from people who were suspected of or actually committed some kind of crime (Eric Garner, and note that the crime was extremely trivial and he was unarmed) to random people going about their business (Trayvon Martin) to children playing at playgrounds (Tamir Rice).
-Many of these cases involve clear use of excessive force, brutality, negligence, or some combination thereof.
-In most of these cases, media coverage, especially from right-wing media, focuses heavily on what the dead person did wrong in the interaction, uses social media photos that make them look bad, and just generally seems to paint them as bad people who deserved what they got.
-In most of these cases, the killer either gets off in a trial (Zimmerman), or is not even indicted (most cases involving cops).
-How is this not just murder that's going unpunished.
-Please stop murdering black people.
All Lives Matter (or Blue Lives Matter or whatever it is now) side:
-"Black Lives Matter" is clearly discriminatory. Calling it that implies that you only care about black people. What about the rest of us?
-BLM uses damaging/disruptive protest methods and should stop protesting using those methods (protests that block roads, protests that cause property damage, protests that cause mental or emotional damage by hurting my enjoyment of a 49ers game).
-Being a cop is a dangerous job and for their own safety they need to be proactive in shooting people. If we make them worry they might get in trouble for shooting people, they might hesitate to shoot and therefore be in more danger from criminals.
-All the people getting killed are actually bad people. (Unspoken but implied: and bad people deserve to be killed.)
-Ok, so maaaybe black people are disproportionately killed. But even if that is true, maybe it just means that black people are disproportionately likely to be criminals hey hey no using the r-word!
-Ok so maybe black people are disproportionately killed and maybe it's because of implicit and explicit racism but! There actually aren't all that many people being killed in absolute numbers (also there are more white people killed in absolute numbers!) and if we draw too much attention people will get unduly scared or possibly get mad and murder cops in retaliation like that guy in Houston.
I think that broadly covers it. Ok, so who's right?
On the BLM side, it's true that black people are 2-3x more likely to be killed by cops than white people. While I haven't seen any clear studies, it also seems to be true both that media coverage is slanted and that the killer tends to get off or not be indicted. And... what more needs to be said? Murder is bad.
On the All Lives Matter side, we start off with two irrelevant points (the name and the methods aren't a salient point of disagreement, just a distraction). Cops needing to be able to shoot people has more the form of an actual point, but frankly I don't find "let's sacrifice black people to help keep cops safe" to be a very compelling argument. We can safely ignore the "bad people" point because we aren't barbarians and we've moved past "eye for an eye" justice. The one about black people being more criminal is not worth considering, though it does accidentally point at the truth of racial bias in policing and the justice system in general. And the final point, that maybe this is too much of a fuss compared to the actual problem... eh, it's possible that people are more scared than the statistics justify, but let's be real, that's true of every cause of death that isn't heart attacks or car accidents. (Plus, might as well turn it around and note that being a cop is not as dangerous as jobs like fisherman or construction worker, that cops are about as likely to die in traffic accidents as from violence, and that 1146 people were killed by cops in 2015 compared to 40 cops killed by other people.)
So to sum up, from where I'm sitting it looks a lot like BLM has several good points and All Lives Matter doesn't really have any point except opposing BLM.
I'm confident that now that I've considered the issues of both sides, as requested, you will do the same and help us all understand what we're missing.
Nope. Independents are the people that sat their asses home back in November. I'm surprised that the number isn't larger.
And to add to your ignorance and fuck you I got mine groups, is the all too common "I aint got mine so fuck you too."
Psychoward
Banned
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I've skipped practically every post except the dual sided one above mine, and I've had to explain why "All Lives Matter" was actually the discriminatory stance to take since several white and even latino co-workers just didn't seem to understand what it was about. (I am a black man... only one in my small office setting). They didn't seem to understand that undercutting BLM w/ ALM is saying that there isn't a problem, and that everything is fine, when it so clearly isn't.
When one latina co-worker came up to debate the whole point of view that "Well All Lives Matter and all these BLM people need to find a better way to make their point if blah blah blah" I promptly had to shut her down and tell it from my perspective as a black person, and explain that "BLM" wasn't excluding anyone, but just trying to point out the disproportionate lack of concern towards the Black Lives that were being taken.
Once I explained to them the hardship of the black community to be heard, and how they think that this shit is just now going on, instead of finally just being covered nationally thanks to social media and the fact that everyone has a camera and a way to share it with the world instantly, they all kinda realized the error in their understanding of the movement, and how even though the focus was on Black Lives, this extended to Brown lives, and whatever other color you want to throw in too. Once I explained to them that in order for there to be change, they had to cause enough of a disturbance to get national media attention and force the matter to be at the top of headlines so that it would be a topic that would hopefully need to be debated and eventually worked on.
Having to explain the cause and effect through the course of history till today, when they say "well if he isn't guilty then he shouldn't have ran" gets tiring, but knowing that I was able to get through to everyone in my office that was listening (in my momentarily inspired rant from the "non-angry-non-threatening" black man that they all know and love) made me feel good, and also prevented me from ever having to have that conversation again in the office. There is an undeniable duality to the law when it comes to white vs black in many situations, and once they understood that they never saw if from my side, they had to take a step back an re-evaluate their stance on the situation.
When one latina co-worker came up to debate the whole point of view that "Well All Lives Matter and all these BLM people need to find a better way to make their point if blah blah blah" I promptly had to shut her down and tell it from my perspective as a black person, and explain that "BLM" wasn't excluding anyone, but just trying to point out the disproportionate lack of concern towards the Black Lives that were being taken.
Once I explained to them the hardship of the black community to be heard, and how they think that this shit is just now going on, instead of finally just being covered nationally thanks to social media and the fact that everyone has a camera and a way to share it with the world instantly, they all kinda realized the error in their understanding of the movement, and how even though the focus was on Black Lives, this extended to Brown lives, and whatever other color you want to throw in too. Once I explained to them that in order for there to be change, they had to cause enough of a disturbance to get national media attention and force the matter to be at the top of headlines so that it would be a topic that would hopefully need to be debated and eventually worked on.
Having to explain the cause and effect through the course of history till today, when they say "well if he isn't guilty then he shouldn't have ran" gets tiring, but knowing that I was able to get through to everyone in my office that was listening (in my momentarily inspired rant from the "non-angry-non-threatening" black man that they all know and love) made me feel good, and also prevented me from ever having to have that conversation again in the office. There is an undeniable duality to the law when it comes to white vs black in many situations, and once they understood that they never saw if from my side, they had to take a step back an re-evaluate their stance on the situation.
Pretty much.
This time though, the right for some reason gets to claim that the media is biased towards them or something.
Renegade Frost
Banned
I'm also tired of having to explain things to disingenuous people.
Those people use and abuse you, and nobody but them benefits from it
I'm just gonna do like the Flash and show them a pic of the speedforce
Those people use and abuse you, and nobody but them benefits from it
I'm just gonna do like the Flash and show them a pic of the speedforce
LinkAndEpona
Banned
More disingenuous noise.
Black people shouldn't be shot in the street and they should be treated fairly, but we all know how African Americans tend to treat each other.
That is the issue which is far bigger than anything related to police.
An example, Last weekend in Baltimore was dubbed 'Nobody kill anybody', and it didn't work. Strange there wasn't a topic here on it.
How do African Americans treat each other and what does that have to do with trying to stop police brutality, which is the primary focus of Black Lives Matter?
Thanks for summing up your own post!
How do we treat each other Mr. Black Expert?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'm glad you finally dropped the pretense.
metalslimer
Member
Holy shit
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