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[Gaius Cassius]

It shows that the polled white americans had a completely negative view of MLK when he still had a pulse. But once he was dead, strangely his approval ratings rocketed in the other direction. Its relevant because they always pull out Civil Rights movements and MLK when disagreeing with every type of modern day protest from POC today.

When the truth is, they hated it then too. Truth is, there is no form of protest, be it silent or "blocking traffic" that this demographic won't find a way to hate. And they always claim the protests and activist HURT the issues rather than help it; even though things like Civil Rights proves that hot taokke wrong.

This all the way. There's no way to completely win over non progressive whites. Living in Texas, I see evidence of this every single day.

I know it's depressing as fuck to ponder, but hypothetically when some white person or cop blows away an innocent minority in a horrendous way that cannot be defended at all, what happens when black lives matter has another Ferguson size or Baltimore size protest? Before, President Obama was able to keep the peace for the most part, but you can bet your ass Trump won't. He'd send in the National Guard and a lot of innocent people would be killed.

This leads me to my point, say another Watts Riot event like that takes place. Would that in the long run help these white people realize what's wrong with the system? With their beliefs?

 

[MotionBlue]

I can only agree with has already been said/shown. Majorities resist change. BLM is pushing change via ethnic/racial lines and the push-back is along the same lines. The movement has also done good work, but gets bad media coverage. The movement has also done some really dumb shit(Looking at you Toronto chapters), and that gets excess media coverage.

It's the same argument I hear against feminism all the time.
"Do you consider yourself a feminist?"
"I don't think so."
"All it means literally is that you support female equality."
"But I don't like the label. I consider myself an equalist."

Also, what the fuck is wrong with the name? It's super fair, not preachy... it's like the smallest push.
I liked Michael Che's special when he talked about it.

I don't think its wrong to offer nuance. Feminism has toxic parts of the movement (eg. TERFs). The movement was involved in redefining words, it should acknowledge the process is still happening. Also consider the movement as a whole has been around long enough that corporations, politicians, and advertisers have used/abused it for personal gain.

If someone in general asks if I'm a Feminist, the answer will always be yes. If someone from online(specifically Reddit), or in Gender Studies I typically ask for clarification/definition.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I never said that people were gonna die. But as that story shows, it can cause real problems. Those parents of that child are probably pretty ticked off at BLM. Meaning they are less likely to support them. That's all I'm trying to say.

Maybe there is an inconsistency there. I think they just don't like some of what BLM does, like the blocking traffic example that I'm getting butchered for lol.

Probably because you won't get off it, insisting that 'real problems' that are handled properly and without deaths are more important than whatever the hell BLM stands for, what was it again? oh some innocent people got killed by cops and nobody is accountable? Bah.

 

[tearsintherain]

These clowns think that BLM is the black equivalent of the KKK. I mean WTF? Are people really THAT stupid?

Well, the KKK is not mentioned at all in the article, none of the polling asked whether anyone thought BLM was racist, and you are the first poster to make that comparison, so not sure where you are pulling that comparison from.

I've always wondered if BLM had poor messaging. We all know BLM means "black lives (also) matter" and people bring up that house picture, but way too many people see it as "(only) black lives matter". Yes, its a stupid thing to misinterpret and no doubt some people do it deliberately but slogans and short messages are things people react to without thought, and remember and associate forever. The left has always been really bad at crafting a message, never really understood why since all the PR and madison avenue and Hollywood folks are supposed to be liberal.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Probably because you won't get off it, insisting that 'real problems' that are handled properly and without deaths are more important than whatever the hell BLM stands for, what was it again? oh some innocent people got killed by cops and nobody is accountable? Bah.

You completely misread what I said. Never once did I say that BLM is not important.

Literally all I'm trying to say is I think people are less likely to agree with them because of some of their actions. Maybe I did a bang up job of trying to explain it, but yea. And I've already admitted that maybe I don't have enough perspective on living as a black person to give an unbiased argument.

 

[royalan]

Well, the KKK is not mentioned at all in the article, none of the polling asked whether anyone thought BLM was racist, and you are the first poster to make that comparison, so not sure where you are pulling that comparison from.

I've always wondered if BLM had poor messaging. We all know BLM means "black lives (also) matter" and people bring up that house picture, but way too many people see it as "(only) black lives matter". Yes, its a stupid thing to misinterpret and no doubt some people do it deliberately but slogans and short messages are things people react to without thought, and remember and associate forever. The left has always been really bad at crafting a message, never really understood why since all the PR and madison avenue and Hollywood folks are supposed to be liberal.

Question:

Can you name a black activist organization that specialized in local action (so not the NAACP) that wasn't also vilified in a similar way?

I'll wait.

 

[haimon]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

 

[PopeReal]

See any protest thread.

 

[Foundling]

The headline statistic here is not surprising. My understanding (from reading like one study) is that any kind of protest movement has to deal with an inherent tradeoff between what you might call viability and likeability. Basically, if you want people to actually hear about you and your goals, you have to make a lot of noise and be disruptive ("protest the wrong way"). But if you do that, people who hear about you will be more likely to dislike your movement. There's sort of a sliding scale here, and it's not clear where the optimal point of protesting is to maximize both viability and likeability (or, if we could find that optimal point, whether executing on it is in any way achievable for a large grass-roots movement).

This whole thing is probably made worse on both ends by the movement being by and about black people. I'd guess both that white people are less likely to listen to the issue in the first place when it's about a problem affecting black people, and also that they're more likely to have negative perceptions of any kind of disruptive actions on the part of black protestors. So it really is damned if you do damned if you don't.

Honestly the fact that this is a national conversation now, even if the conversation... isn't going well, is itself something of a win. We have to get there eventually, right? Right?

(60% of whites think the system is fair to minorities jesus fucking christ we're all doomed)

 

[Not]

(60% of whites think the system is fair to minorities jesus fucking christ we're all doomed)

It's crazy how America essentially created and maintains an alternate dimension just for white people to inhabit.

 

[barit]

And that's why America will never be the greatest country in the world even by default. Thanks to the hundreds-year-old racism that they can't get rid off and the overwhelming stupidity of the majority disqualified this country for any praises.

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

That's some depressing data, fuck it.

 

[R0ckman]

Keep in mind that people have deliberately taken BLM and used it to be equilvalent to negative things, the true dangerous thugs made it worse by unprofessionally responding back with Blue Lives Matter. I'd guess that 20-30% of that 57% is a result of negative-spin and propaganda.

 

[entremet]

Makes sense. The plurality has always viewed protest with annoyance and disdain. Look at the Occupy Wall Street reaction as well.

Most Americans are sheltered and want have their days uninterrupted with pesky protests.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It's crazy how America essentially created and maintains an alternate dimension just for white people to inhabit.

Safest of spaces

 

[Gentleman Jack]

You completely misread what I said. Never once did I say that BLM is not important.

Literally all I'm trying to say is I think people are less likely to agree with them because of some of their actions. Maybe I did a bang up job of trying to explain it, but yea. And I've already admitted that maybe I don't have enough perspective on living as a black person to give an unbiased argument.

But you're saying this in the face of repeated data that says you're wrong.
The data says people are against civil rights movements, period, and the ways and means are irrelevant in how they perceive it.
Your answer to hard polling data on the perception of BLM is anecdotes.

 

[Heroman]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

Wait what?

 

[Koomaster]

I doubt people would like BLM no matter what they were doing. If all they did was hold meetings in someone's basement and host a website, some people would say they are trying to stir up racial tensions. Heck as has been pointed out, just taking a knee during the national anthem got people frothing at the mouth. So it's more that people have a problem with black lives than with Black Lives Matter. So I don't think they should concern themselves with what methods they use to protest.

 

[Future]

The term black lives matter can be viewed as confrontational, singular and oppressive to those sensitive to this sort of thing. A lot of this data shows general lack of desire to think about race

It's difficult. Those in favor don't see how anyone could or should feel defensive about the statement. Those against don't understand why the topic is being brought up. No one attempts to change their approach to the matter as both parties feel they are correct. So stalemate with increasing tensions

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well, the KKK is not mentioned at all in the article, none of the polling asked whether anyone thought BLM was racist, and you are the first poster to make that comparison, so not sure where you are pulling that comparison from.

I've always wondered if BLM had poor messaging. We all know BLM means "black lives (also) matter" and people bring up that house picture, but way too many people see it as "(only) black lives matter". Yes, its a stupid thing to misinterpret and no doubt some people do it deliberately but slogans and short messages are things people react to without thought, and remember and associate forever. The left has always been really bad at crafting a message, never really understood why since all the PR and madison avenue and Hollywood folks are supposed to be liberal.

Anything they went by would get that reaction.

Please stop pretending there's a packaging that will woo those white people to get on board

It's fundamentally the ideas they oppose not the presentation.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

Why

The term black lives matter can be viewed as confrontational, singular and oppressive to those sensitive to this sort of thing. A lot of this data shows general lack of desire to think about race

It's difficult. Those in favor don't see how anyone could or should feel defensive about the statement. Those against don't understand why the topic is being brought up. No one attempts to change their approach to the matter as both parties feel they are correct. So stalemate with increasing tensions

It's not the term. Good lord can we stop pretending like all black need is better marketing.

Taking a knee was seen as offensive. Kneeling. This isn't a marketing problem. It's a white people don't like being reminded that black people are oppressed problem.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

They have a higher favorability rate than MLK had in '66.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

 

[Black Republican]

fucking sad man, but its no surprise, no matter how black folk protest its always seen as negative, even by good people.


im curious to see how #BlueLivesMatter is viewed among most americans of all races and genders though

 

[The Pope]

It took me while to support BLM. I live in a white conservative community which is a bit of an echo chamber. Once I escaped that backward thought process I began to support the movement and have no idea why everyone doesn't support it.

Edit: A few of BLM's protests have degenerated in to looting and vandalism but it is blown out of proportion relative to the size of the movement. There are always a few bad apples.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

fucking sad man, but its no surprise, no matter how black folk protest its always seen as negative, even by good people.


im curious to see how #BlueLivesMatter is viewed among most americans of all races and genders though

Yup. This thread:

 

[Future]

fucking sad man, but its no surprise, no matter how black folk protest its always seen as negative, even by good people.


im curious to see how #BlueLivesMatter is viewed among most americans of all races and genders though

I imagine it gets similar hostility from those on the opposite end of the spectrum. There is implication to a statement like that people are sensitive to. Especially since it's conception seems derived from being against BLM

 

[Kyzer]

*black children die*

*black people proclaim the simple fact that their lives matter*

*Racists / America are outraged*

 

[supermarioworldE]

With so little change, in regards to equality for black people, is this data really surprising? A good portion of this country doesnt give a shit about us, and any information about the inequality gets ignored by them anyway. It's not the protesting or the name of the movement that puts the majority off from agreeing with it. It's simply the idea of black lives getting equal treatment. Such a thing would drastically change this country, and many are content with the way things are. The racial biases dont affect them negatively, so why should they care?

 

[Skilletor]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

Just the notion, eh.

Makes sense.

 

[Violence Jack]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

Then you really don't support your notion since that's literally what the BLM movement is all about.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Then you really don't support your notion since that's literally what the BLM movement is all about.

Yup. "I support rights but those people are too uppity" makes me roll the shit out my eyes.

 

[L Thammy]

The problem with the name Black Lives Matter is that "Only" is written on before with magic ink that is only visible to 57% of people.

Just kidding. The issue with the name Black Lives Matter is that it makes a simple statement that many people disagree with, but don't feel they can state their disagreement with outright because it's a horrible position to have.

 

[KSweeley]

Well BLM was awarded a peace prize: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/23/black-lives-matter-awarded-2017-sydney-peace-prize

Link: http://sydneypeacefoundation.org.au/peace-prize-recipients/black-lives-matter/

2017 Black Lives Matter
Movement for freedom, justice and dignity for all Black lives

SYDNEY PEACE PRIZE CITATION
For building a powerful movement for racial equality, courageously reigniting a global conversation around state violence and racism. And for harnessing the potential of new platforms and power of people to inspire a bold movement for change at a time when peace is threatened by growing inequality and injustice.

 

[Future]

Then you really don't support your notion since that's literally what the BLM movement is all about.

People like this can't get past the name and perception. Probably also don't even want to think about it, or see protests about it

 

[excelsiorlef]

People like this can't get past the name and perception. Probably also don't even want to think about it, or see protests about it

Meaning they don't actually support the notion.

 

[rjinaz]

Well I know that while I support the notion that minorities in the USA should have the same protection and not have police kill and brutalize them, I don't support blm.

I can understand not supporting everything BLM has done (like the Toronto banning the police from the parade thing), the problem there though is that it's a local movement meaning local chapters kind of do their own thing. It makes no sense to condemn the whole organization when they are exactly what you just said you support. Other wise your words are just hollow, you support it in theory, and as long as they are quiet about it and don't actually set out to do anything about ti.

 

[The Kree]

Maybe if you take the words "black" and "lives" and "matter" out of the name...

 

[Mr. X]

I read up on them a bit but didn't find a clear answer. What did the Black Panthers actually do that was wrong? I think I might already know the answer to this, but all I'm seeing is that they were openly protesting while exercising their right to open-carry. Which led to open-carry being repealed in California, a law which the NRA supported. You know what, the more I write about what I read, the more I'm convinced I already know the answer...

Black
Educated each other on the law
Free breakfast program for the kids
Black business

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Yup. This thread:

Lmao.

 

[Future]

Meaning they don't actually support the notion.

It doesn't mean that in their eyes. But that's certainly a way to take it, and a hostile way of viewing it for sure.

The black lives matter movement speaks on lots of concepts, but it has a title that speaks simplicity. You can believe personally that black lives matter as much as anyone else's, but also be ignorant to the current issues affecting black people, systematic racism, and harbor the views shown in this data: "well if you are in prison you probably deserved to be there and had nothing to do with race. After all I and my friends are not in prison because we are not criminals!" Etc.

You can also interpret the term negatively, that other lives are being challenged as not mattering. If you are a person or friends of people that think they didn't get into school or a profession because of a "black life mattering" more than them, then you may have this negative interpretation and be against the term and what it could represent.... at the same time thinking that you aren't racist either. Which they probably aren't, they are just ignorant on this subject

 

[Mr. X]

Well they did attempt to indoctrinate children to hate cops but honestly beyond that...they were black and usin they rights to protect themselves.

Are you talking about the coloring book? That was made and distributed by the fbi to hurt the bpp image.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The headline statistic here is not surprising. My understanding (from reading like one study) is that any kind of protest movement has to deal with an inherent tradeoff between what you might call viability and likeability. Basically, if you want people to actually hear about you and your goals, you have to make a lot of noise and be disruptive ("protest the wrong way"). But if you do that, people who hear about you will be more likely to dislike your movement. There's sort of a sliding scale here, and it's not clear where the optimal point of protesting is to maximize both viability and likeability (or, if we could find that optimal point, whether executing on it is in any way achievable for a large grass-roots movement).

This whole thing is probably made worse on both ends by the movement being by and about black people. I'd guess both that white people are less likely to listen to the issue in the first place when it's about a problem affecting black people, and also that they're more likely to have negative perceptions of any kind of disruptive actions on the part of black protestors. So it really is damned if you do damned if you don't.

Honestly the fact that this is a national conversation now, even if the conversation... isn't going well, is itself something of a win. We have to get there eventually, right? Right?

(60% of whites think the system is fair to minorities jesus fucking christ we're all doomed)

I don't think the negative perceptions are a result of some negative actions of the BLM movement at all...

It seems to me that the negative perception of the US white majority of BLM, is based on a refusal to accept the fundamental issues BLM is protesting against as real issues at all.

Based on my understanding of the information in the OP, it suggests that these white opponents to BLM, don't think police brutality is a problem and that they don't think that blacks in the US are disproportionately victimized by the actions of US police forces.

So they're essentially refusing to accept the inherent problems with Americas policing institutions... it willful ignorance.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It doesn't mean that in their eyes. But that's certainly a way to take it, and a hostile way of viewing it for sure.

The black lives matter movement speaks on lots of concepts, but it has a title that speaks simplicity. You can believe personally that black lives matter as much as anyone else's, but also be ignorant to the current issues affecting black people, systematic racism, and harbor the views shown in this data: "well if you are in prison you probably deserved to be there and had nothing to do with race. After all I and my friends are not in prison because we are not criminals!" Etc.

You can also interpret the term negatively, that other lives are being challenged as not mattering. If you are a person or friends of people that think they didn't get into school or a profession because of a "black life mattering" more than them, then you may have this negative interpretation and be against the term and what it could represent.... at the same time thinking that you aren't racist either. Which they probably aren't, they are just ignorant on this subject

I don't really care about their eyes.

Jeff Sessions doesn't see himself as racist... but he is

This is bending over backwards to be charitable to people who don't lift a finger to help Black folk and then implying BLM has some responsibility for it.

There is no name that would make these people move their tiny fingers.

Btw if you blame black people for not getting a job or a school acceptance... you're probably you know racist. What kind of example was that?

Also if you think all black people in jail are there because they deserve it... yeah you're probably also a racist again.

And none of these views would be different if BLM had a different name.

 

[rudger]

people keep saying that no matter what they were called and no matter what they did BLM would be hated. That may likely be true, but what is exactly is the strategy then? When somebody says All Lives Matter, does objecting in righteous indignation get you anywhere? It makes you feel better, but ultimately it doesn't actually help the cause. Sometimes pivoting or changing rhetoric is needed to reach your end goal. You can still know where you stand and what your ultimate goals are, but if people will refuse to listen to you due to deep seeded racism or bias, adapt your argument to make it harder to object. Agree that all lives matter and showcase instances of police brutality against non-black people. Make these objectors sympathetic to your cause by making it more relatable. the civil rights act didn't just help black people. It helped Jewish and Irish people as well.

I like BLM and I want them to keep pushing but they more than anybody should be aware of how hard they need to fight.

 

[L Thammy]

When somebody says All Lives Matter, does objecting in righteous indignation get you anywhere?

Does anyone object to that? No one will disagree when that statement is made. The issue is that "black lives matter" is stated to raise awareness of an issue, and to highlight a police force that seems to believe that they don't. "all lives matter" is stated to distract from the previous statement and to take the conversation away from anything that demands any kind of action.

 

[H.Protagonist]

I'm sorry to say (but not surprised given her anti-Obama sentiments) that my mom is certainly among those. My sister sent me a shocker of a text the other day that she and my mom had driven past a BLM sign and my mom said that it should be burned. I didn't know what to say. I don't think she even knows what it's really about, but the kneejerk hate she had towards it was instantaneous. I suspect a lot of Americans who view it negatively are the same. Zero understanding with absolute condemnation.

 

[haimon]

I can understand not supporting everything BLM has done (like the Toronto banning the police from the parade thing), the problem there though is that it's a local movement meaning local chapters kind of do their own thing. It makes no sense to condemn the whole organization when they are exactly what you just said you support. Other wise your words are just hollow, you support it in theory, and as long as they are quiet about it and don't actually set out to do anything about ti.

No, because they are also adding additional causes to what they are supporting.

Blm is anti Israel and therefore I don't support them. I support the cause they are a part of and if they were only about that I would 100% support them. But since they (and many other organizations for specific causes) decide to support other issues they can run into cases like me.

 

[Slayven]

people keep saying that no matter what they were called and no matter what they did BLM would be hated. That may likely be true, but what is exactly is the strategy then? When somebody says All Lives Matter, does objecting in righteous indignation get you anywhere? It makes you feel better, but ultimately it doesn't actually help the cause. Sometimes pivoting or changing rhetoric is needed to reach your end goal. You can still know where you stand and what your ultimate goals are, but if people will refuse to listen to you due to deep seeded racism or bias, adapt your argument to make it harder to object. Agree that all lives matter and showcase instances of police brutality against non-black people. Make these objectors sympathetic to your cause by making it more relatable. the civil rights act didn't just help black people. It helped Jewish and Irish people as well.

I like BLM and I want them to keep pushing but they more than anybody should be aware of how hard they need to fight.

BLM talks about white victims all the time, and the only way those that object to there cause to come on board is for BLM to literally not exists.

Zachary Hammond: NeoGAF
& BLM
Dylan Noble: NeoGAF
& BLM
Justine Damond: NeoGAF
& BLM




[

 

[haimon]

Then you really don't support your notion since that's literally what the BLM movement is all about.

Nope. They have made use of thier platform to push additional agendas.