Support NeoGAF

[Wishmaster92]

I like how they keep releasing character model shots that they claim are in game, and yet all the actual models from gameplay footage look nowhere near the same quality.

You would they would have learned not to lie in prerelease footage after the KZ2 demo.

The helghast patrols in the forest looked really bad, don't know why. This version on the other hand lines up perfectly.

So if we were to go by these then the previous shots are in-game/realtime too.

 

[Saberus]

I like how they keep releasing character model shots that they claim are in game, and yet all the actual models from gameplay footage look nowhere near the same quality.

You would they would have learned not to lie in prerelease footage after the KZ2 demo.

They have said time and time again, that the new character models are not in the demos yet, course if you had any interest in KZ you would have known this already.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

They have said time and time again, that the new character models are not in the demos yet, course if you had any interest in KZ you would have known this already.

Not trying to be a butthole button where/when did they say this?

 

[Totobeni]

I wonder how they can show her more without spoiling the plot. That level of detail just isn't possible on current gen consoles, especially in terms of skin shaders and overall texture quality.

well she is on the cover , same place where we used to have the evil looking Helghast Helmets.

I'd say she is the final boss and as good as dead.

 

[Kenshin001]

I think it'll have a more enjoyable campaign than your typical CoD and BF affair, even if it's not hugely innovative.

I put the series on the same level as Gears when it comes to enjoyable single player campaigns. Of course that series has co-op, but overall they tend to be rather linear roller coaster rides. As I've said before, these games aren't Last of Us quality when it comes to that, but in the FPS/TPS genre there's not much high-bar competition.

Shadow Fall looks a lot more interesting to me than the previous Killzone single player campaigns were, simply because of how open the environments are now and the addition of more tactical elements and open mission objective structure similar to Goldeneye. I think the single player could surprise a lot of folks because it sounds like they're holding back on releasing a lot of info.

Of course the main reason I'm even getting KZ to begin with is for the multiplayer and they haven't even shown it. Its chances for success will mostly ride on how that mode turns out.

Crysis 2 and 3 had open environments, lots of tricks and gadgets and were ultimately forgettable games. CoD4:MW was linear but one of the best FPS this gen. Open environments mean little unless you have the combat and story to go along with it. I just saw dull combat with a bot/wall hack feature that sucks all the tension out of the game and bad voice acting.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Crysis 2 and 3 had open environments, lots of tricks and gadgets and were ultimately forgettable games. CoD4:MW was linear but one of the best FPS this gen. Open environments mean little unless you have the combat and story to go along with it. I just saw dull combat with a bot/wall hack feature that sucks all the tension out of the game and bad voice acting.

lol

 

[nhlducks35]

lol

Are you serious? It's easily one of the best of this generation.

 

[T'Zariah]

Crysis 2 and 3 had open environments, lots of tricks and gadgets and were ultimately forgettable games. CoD4:MW was linear but one of the best FPS this gen. Open environments mean little unless you have the combat and story to go along with it. I just saw dull combat with a bot/wall hack feature that sucks all the tension out of the game and bad voice acting.

The thing is, most people assume that just because something's "linear" means it's automatically bad.

There are good ways to do linear game (see the Uncharted franchise, although admittedly it does falter in some ways) and obviously awful ways to do linear games (FFXIII being a prime example)

To me it seems like GG is trying to strike a balance, although how well that's going to mesh together or whether it's going to be more "open" or "straightforward" is anyone's guess. My best guess is the latter, but then again, seeing as how we've only been (barely) shown two levels, it's really hard to say.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Are you serious? It's easily one of the best of this generation.

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is. I mean the campaign wasn't even as good as the first 2 COD's

 

[T'Zariah]

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is.

This is true, although statistically, half of the people that buy the CoD games, even to this day, don't even touch the MP.

The campaign is only "garbage" by modern standards (although obviously even then that depends on one's personal taste)

CoD4 pretty much started the whole setpiece blockbuster FPS campaign fad, for better or worse.

 

[curlycare]

I'd she is the final boss and as good as dead.

VADERNOOOOO she's too cute
Such cruel guys those GG.

 

[nhlducks35]

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is. I mean the campaign wasn't even as good as the first 2 COD's

Campaign? Yeah, it's pretty mediocre

 

[Kenshin001]

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is. I mean the campaign wasn't even as good as the first 2 COD's

Surprised people think it was garbage and like I said, this generation. I thought All Ghillied Up, Death from Above, even Aftermath were groundbreaking. In the middle of this FPS you have a 2 and a half minute section where you play a dying soldier trying to crawl out of a crashed helicopter. Pretty powerful stuff.

 

[Always-honest]

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is. I mean the campaign wasn't even as good as the first 2 COD's

No, this is very off topic, but the campaign was good too. That's what makes Cod4 stand out. It was an all around great product.

Not trying to be a butthole button where/when did they say this?

they said it in a presentation whre the artdirectors talked about the game. They showed the new models and talked about how what they have shown was an old build with old models.(the build we still have videos of today). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_azcId704eM

It was a great presentation and a great after talk. My personal fav. quote from the interview was when they asked what the art directors were most proud of. One aswered that he was most proud of the Helghast side of town . So i'm very curious to see that in the final game.
They also showed the wireframe of the entire city and talked about design decisions.

 

[Wynnebeck]

No, this is very off topic, but the campaign was good too. That's what makes Cod4 stand out. It was an all around great product.

This. We can all joke about it now but MW1's campaign brought a new level of storytelling to FPS that hadn't been seen in a long time. Then, they went and ran it into the ground. :/

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

COD single player has always been awful....extremely linear, unsatisfying gunplay, and brain dead AI that pops out at the same locations every time, not to mention areas with infinitely respawning enemies

 

[Saberus]

Not trying to be a butthole button where/when did they say this?

They talk about the new models here at around 12:50 and 14:40 and 15:43 and again he keeps pointing to the new models and how much better they are from the demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JVihWUoOG8

They also talk about the demo we saw at the Feb event and the one thats on the screen was 1/2 year old. You can get a couple of peaks at the new models at the time stamps.

 

[Yoday]

I don't find it hard to believe that those character models are in game. The footage we have seen so far is all compressed to hell on YouTube, and that hides a whole lot of detail and image quality. Also I have to imagine that the demos we have seen for PS4 games were all built starting months ago using the 4GB development kits. We are probably going to see at least higher resolution textures in the final games.

For example, there was a video interview for Drive Club and they said right out that what we have seen is a pretty old demo, and that the game already looks much better, they are improving it every day, and the final game is going to look much better than the demo's we have seen.

 

[Always-honest]

I don't find it hard to believe that those character models are in game. The footage we have seen so far is all compressed to hell on YouTube, and that hides a whole lot of detail and image quality. Also I have to imagine that the demos we have seen for PS4 games were all built starting months ago using the 4GB development kits. We are probably going to see at least higher resolution textures in the final games.

For example, there was a video interview for Drive Club and they said right out that what we have seen is a pretty old demo, and that the game already looks much better, they are improving it every day, and the final game is going to look much better than the demo's we have seen.

Indeed. here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_azcId704eM at 14:40 he talks about how the garfield looking Helghast is an old model.
unfortunately we don't get to see the new model, but we do get to see the new sniper model and all its detail. The final game will be much more detailed.

We do need to realise that renders will always look a bit cleaner than while playing the game.. you have dynamic shadow fuck ups, small jaggies, etc.. But they are the same models.

 

[dragonbane]

I saw that article a while back.

And "ugh" and *barf* if the studios need to resort to pre-rendered cutscenes next gen. This gen it was used in games like Uncharted and TLoU to improve IQ and lighting but the poly count was left untouched. I would it as failure of technology if cutscenes can't look decent with over 80K poly for main characters, good AA and much better lighting.

Are you sure? I think they mentioned once that they use higher quality models in their cutscenes. The Joel cutscene model looks way better than the ingame model I think, but maybe that comes down to the rather bad IQ ingame. Mhm.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Are you sure? I think they mentioned once that they use higher quality models in their cutscenes. The Joel cutscene model looks way better than the ingame model I think, but maybe that comes down to the rather bad IQ ingame. Mhm.

Yeah i think they do use higher polys in cutscenes like they did in uncharted, enough to make you notice. Could be wrong though.

Here is the current version helghast terrorist comparison vs the pre-alpha one. Notice how the boots and almost everything line up 1:1. While the current version has sharper textures probably due to the ram increase.

 

[i-Lo]

Are you sure? I think they mentioned once that they use higher quality models in their cutscenes. The Joel cutscene model looks way better than the ingame model I think, but maybe that comes down to the rather bad IQ ingame. Mhm.

Yeah i think they do use higher polys in cutscenes like they did in uncharted, enough to make you notice. Could be wrong though.

That's the thing, I remember ND mentioning that they use the same model for both cinematics and gameplay; at least they did so for Uncharted series. If you look at Joel's face closely during gameplay segments, it would seem that it's the same model (highest LoD).

Once look here at the difference shaders and textures can make between iterations (Drake's character model's poly count, iirc, did not vary that much between UC1 and 3):

Uncharted 1

Uncharted 3

 

[ghst]

sony's bullshots so far have been pretty egregious considering their straight-talkin' rebirth.

yes, i'm sure your game looks great when downsampled from 4k with not a single aliased pixel.

 

[Cheech]

sony's bullshots so far have been pretty egregious considering their straight-talkin' rebirth.

yes, i'm sure your game looks great when downsampled from 4k with not a single aliased pixel.

*target render

 

[nelsonroyale]

sony's bullshots so far have been pretty egregious considering their straight-talkin' rebirth.

yes, i'm sure your game looks great when downsampled from 4k with not a single aliased pixel.

Cleaning up images is entirely standard. Otherwise, shots look in line with gameplay. So far, I would say Ubi has been the worst offender with Watch Dogs. Game looks great, but game won't look like the screenshots even on a high end PC. Apart from being too clean, the shots look staged.

 

[TheRealTalker]

As a fan of KZ, I got to say this forest level looks lame.

And that little robot seems alittle overkill. Like it seems its not even needed besides for reaching platforms that are far way. It really seems like you plus that thing shooting make the game a cakewalk or it doesnt even server a tactical purpose. Oh and the slow mo crap is just ugh. I hope that bot can be destroyed and its gimped.

This game is looking like a budget price buy from me, REAL TALK. GG What the fuck are you doing with this franchise?

You called? :3 ...
anyway I believe the killing power of the bot would be downscaled a bit with the increase of difficulty so I don't see a problem with it except that when it shoots the rope there should be a hook at the end of it connecting it to the object

 

[Chamber]

I'd say she is the final boss and as good as dead.

Guerilla pls.

They talk about the new models here at around 12:50 and 14:40 and 15:43 and again he keeps pointing to the new models and how much better they are from the demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JVihWUoOG8

They also talk about the demo we saw at the Feb event and the one thats on the screen was 1/2 year old. You can get a couple of peaks at the new models at the time stamps.

So all of this poo-pooing of the graphics and it turns out to be pre-alpha footage from 6 months ago? GAF, wil you ever learn? Probably not.

 

[ghst]

Cleaning up images is entirely standard. Otherwise, shots look in line with gameplay. So far, I would say Ubi has been the worst offender with Watch Dogs. Game looks great, but game won't look like the screenshots even on a high end PC. Apart from being too clean, the shots look staged.

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

 

[Showaddy]

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

I don't know in my mind showing off High-End PC footage as console footage, even if they don't explicitly say it's console footage, is way worse in my mind. Apparently it's ok because they don't specify either way and just let gamers assume what they want.

 

[mrklaw]

Battlefield 3 was developed on HIGH end PC's (crossfired 7990s at 3k resolution). Until you see the game running on a console, in your home; I wouldn't judge what the practical limits of the developer are.

The other issue is how Sony's first teams are having to start from scratch. They had a foundation in Cell, which has no been revoked completely. Old engines are going to have to be modified and inefficiencies will be inherent. It'll take time; but things will smooth over as time moves forward.

Alternatively, they will be familiar with multithreaded programming, and especially with taking certain tasks away from the GPU and handling them via SPEs - kind of equivalent to compute work. It could actually give Sony first parties a head start in developing new rendering techniques etc

 

[Gestault]

So all of this poo-pooing of the graphics and it turns out to be pre-alpha footage from 6 months ago? GAF, wil you ever learn? Probably not.

I think it's more a case of people reacting to the gameplay assets released to promote the game, instead of ignoring those materials and imagining that it'll look better.

 

[perineumlick]

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

You act like Sony franchises are the only ones using bullshots. They all do it.

 

[beast786]

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

I will judge the final product. And if the difference is day and night then they would deserve the hate. But we are 5 months away from launch. So wait and see approach . That being said the first demo looked absolutely stunning

 

[i-Lo]

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

They used down sampled shots for TLoU as well. I don't think that product suffered for it. When I asked ND's community manager as to why is this an industry-wide practice he informed me that it's done to capture the feel of how the looks while actually playing since in motion we (and while actively playing) we are far more forgiving of the visuals. Ergo, the phrase, "It looks better in motion".

For the next gen, given what we were shown at Feb event, the aliasing is nowhere near as noticeable as it was with current gen games. Hence, even with some aliasing during gameplay the models would nearly as good. Plus in cut scenes where GG may eradicate AA altogether and infuse DoF, I am certain the difference what we see here and in the game will be imperceptible (unless you are analysing the footage frame by frame).

Here's an example of how high fidelity the models (of protagonists) were in TLoU. But outside cutscenes, they were subjected to aliasing (and other LoD limitations) which allied with lower fidelity lighting (compared to cutscenes) and the result show noticeable discrepancy:

 

[Saberus]

Guerilla pls.


So all of this poo-pooing of the graphics and it turns out to be pre-alpha footage from 6 months ago? GAF, wil you ever learn? Probably not.

true

 

[sono]

Huge KZ fan, really didnt like this. Poor gameplay and graphics for me


I prefer KZ3 over that

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Is it just me or is the lighting really underwhelming?

 

[MeBecomingI]

Huge KZ fan, really didnt like this. Poor gameplay and graphics for me


I prefer KZ3 over that

Poor graphics? I don't even..

 

[Zep]

Expecting more out of the enemy hit reactions.

 

[plumpblumpkin]

Too much color. Needs more black and gray.

 

[Lucent]

Too much color. Needs more black and gray.

Next gen color scheme.

 

[shinobi602]

the campaign? no, it's garbage. The multiplayer is what made COD4 the success it is. I mean the campaign wasn't even as good as the first 2 COD's

Wh-what? COD4's campaign is well received, even on GAF.

 

[VanWinkle]

it's standard scummy practice. atleast with multiplats you can make an argument that this is what the game can look like given you are in the .01% with the right hardware, but killzone and infamous are never going to look like the screenshots which sony circulates and all it reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

maybe if the fanboy tune was "stop blowing smoke up our overzealous asses" instead of "take this xbot" things would be a a little different.

That's fair, but don't try to tell me these aren't just as bad of bullshots:

 

[chubigans]

Is it just me or is the lighting really underwhelming?

The lighting is absolutely fantastic, some of the best I've seen. The problem is that they're not letting the sun defuse the lighting; try shining a flashlight at night vs during the day, for example. All the artificial lights in the forest scene is as bright as it would be at night, which makes for a setting that seems "off" but you can't quite figure out why.

 

[Raymo]

The lighting is absolutely fantastic, some of the best I've seen. The problem is that they're not letting the sun defuse the lighting; try shining a flashlight at night vs during the day, for example. All the artificial lights in the forest scene is as bright as it would be at night, which makes for a setting that seems "off" but you can't quite figure out why.

Yeah, particularly noticed this when the owl's blue light completely lit up the player character as it flew by in the middle of the day.

 

[Saberus]

Huge KZ fan, really didnt like this. Poor gameplay and graphics for me


I prefer KZ3 over that

LOL.. day number two,, it begins..

 

[TheRealTalker]

I get it that they have those black buttons everywhere for doing holo-camouflage but what are the red disk used for?... is it meant for scaling buildings and that it contains strings wrapped in it or what

Spoiler

would be soooo cool if they went around the city like if they are using 3d maneuver gear like in Attack on Titan

Also is it me or do those rebel Helghast look like trendy soldiers from a split inFamous/Kingdom Hearts universe

 

[Rolf NB]

Those lens flares and glow effects are awful. Tone this shit down Guerilla. Oh, and if you have anything for DOF in your renderer? Remove it. Thanks.

 

[IcyEyes]

The Guerrilla's guys are doomed.
They will never make everybody happy and looks like people enjoy to complain over them, even the great games they deliver.

 

[IcyEyes]

Those lens flares and glow effects are awful. Tone this shit down Guerilla. Oh, and if you have anything for DOF in your renderer? Remove it. Thanks.

Nothing else ?