New Marathon Leaks from Playtest 3...

Factions II got shelved because ND can't support a live service game long-term.
Who asked them to support a Fornite clone live service game? People just wanted so have some fun between 2 single player sessions. The problem is they weren't making billions of dollars with Factions 1 which is why they didn't do Factions 2. Those fucking managers.
 
It was supposed to be under NDA until it wasn't. I do agree that they went about this all the wrong way. Why on earth they announced a release date before the alpha is beyond me. If they would have just had a low key test and asked for feedback most of the negative around the game could have easily been avoided.
I think it was due to pressure from the testers to lift the NDA as ARC was having a beta that coincided with the Marathon alpha.

Still, they should've just kept it under NDA.
Although maybe the way things played out turned out for the best going by the current leaks.
 
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I think it was due to pressure from the testers to lift the NDA as ARC was having a beta that coincided with the Marathon alpha.

Still, they should've just kept it under NDA.
Although maybe the way things played out turned out for the best going by the current leaks.
Still think this will turn out decent if its your kind of game. I'll be playing, I'm a sucker for a good FPS.
 
Against all odds, I still think Bungie can turn this around, to a mild success only.
Internet has made up their mind so anything less than 10/10 will not satisfy them and there is just no way this is going to be excellent.

I think you are overestimating the mind of the internet (or hardcore players really). If the game is good when it comes out with Bungie's name and PS pushing it , it can sell very well. How well it will do afterwards monetizing the content not sure. We saw the entire gaming sphere shredding cp2077 and although it stopped selling for a while it came back to pretty big sales for both the main and the dlc.

Now will the game be any good not sure. But in general i wouldn't rely so much on what gaf or general outrage (we do love our outrage "lately").
 
Except they are fully focused on Intergalactic and supposedly they have another Uncharted in the works.

When it comes to live service, some people are completely irrational.

And I highly doubt it's as easy as 'just letting someone else support it'.
The game was practically complete, but Sony wouldn't even have a studio to 'take over' from ND anyway.
Which is mind boggling to let a game go to almost completion ($$$) to then say "You know what.. we cant really support this game.. so fuck it" ... it sounds like the type of thing that should come up around the brainstorming session and or pre-production.
 
Which is mind boggling to let a game go to almost completion ($$$) to then say "You know what.. we cant really support this game.. so fuck it" ... it sounds like the type of thing that should come up around the brainstorming session and or pre-production.
Probably, but it always seemed like Factions just happened to turn out way bigger than they expected and then when Bungie came into the picture they discussed what would be necessary to really support it long-term and after carefull consideration they decided they should focus on Intergalactic.

After all, Factions initially was supposed to be part of TLOU2 just like Factions 1 was, but their ambition required a seperate release.

It just seems like somewhere along the way, it's gotten way too big and Bungie's expertise made them realize it wouldn't work.

The only question is how big of a deal it really is to Sony, something none of us knows the answer to.
 
I have to be honest, i've always loved how this game appears in those CGI renders.
If they manage to make it look like that in-game, then it could be actually cool to look at
 
I have to be honest, i've always loved how this game appears in those CGI renders.
If they manage to make it look like that in-game, then it could be actually cool to look at
Those cgi I renders will forever cause harm to the game by virtue of never living up to them, ala Watchdogs
 
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Will it be shut down faster than Concord?

I'm asking for a friend


Spit Take Lol GIF by Justin
 
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I'd love to see how the game looks now. Particularly would like to see the visual improvements, specially in exteriors.

I assume they didn't change the appearance of the characters, but would like to see them to make an effort to appeal non woke male players.

Apparently they can't support anything lately that isn't a Last of Us rerelease.
You are talking as if Death Stranding 2, Astrobot, Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Wolverine, Intergalactic, Cory's new IP, Marvel Tokon, Destiny Rising and so on wouldn't exist.

Who asked them to support a Fornite clone live service game?
We don't have any news of Sony working in any Fortnite clone or having plans to do so.

I have to be honest, i've always loved how this game appears in those CGI renders.
If they manage to make it look like that in-game, then it could be actually cool to look at
CGIs are CGIs, gameplay can't look like this.

Specially competitive multiplayer games like this one, because need to ensure high and stable performance in lower end devices to cover a big enough potential userbase. Which means visuals need to be toned down to ensure a proper 60fps in decent hardware.

Probably, but it always seemed like Factions just happened to turn out way bigger than they expected and then when Bungie came into the picture they discussed what would be necessary to really support it long-term and after carefull consideration they decided they should focus on Intergalactic.

After all, Factions initially was supposed to be part of TLOU2 just like Factions 1 was, but their ambition required a seperate release.

It just seems like somewhere along the way, it's gotten way too big and Bungie's expertise made them realize it wouldn't work.

The only question is how big of a deal it really is to Sony, something none of us knows the answer to.
They originally were working on Factions 2, and online mode for TLOU2. Seeing that they weren't on time to ship TLOU2 on time, ND decided to delay TLOU2 and release it as a SP only game, and spinoff the MP mode to reboot it as a standalone game.

ND's post TLOU2 plans were to work in TLOU Online in addition to multiple new SP games like Intergalactic and an unannounced game they have been working on since over a couple years ago.

The concept of the standalone project, TLOU Online, was way more ambitious and bigger than the original ideas they had for the TLOU2 MP mode, was basically a different project. Nowadays standalone MP game equals GaaS.

When the project was reviewed by the Sony Live Services Center of Excellence, which is a SIE team with the experts on the different GaaS related areas from all the different SIE/PS Studios teams (not just Bungie), it was highlighted that TLOU Online would require way more ND resources for the post launch than the ones they had planned, which wasn't compatible with ND also working on multiple new big SP games at the same time after having growth a lot.

So ND instead of deciding to cancel some of their SP games to put these resources in TLOU Online, decided to cancel instead the GaaS and focus instead on SP only games going forward.

Which is mind boggling to let a game go to almost completion ($$$) to then say "You know what.. we cant really support this game.. so fuck it" ... it sounds like the type of thing that should come up around the brainstorming session and or pre-production.
I've been working on games for two decades, and there are many reasons to cancel a project in all its stages when the company detects that they won't be able to save the game and are very sure that the game is going to be a failure.

A lot of these reasons aren't related to predictable internal reasons, stuff not related of the team doing a bad job. Quite often things sound good and promising on paper and during development, but as the project keeps getting shape and things are able to be tested it's when the issues are detected, specially when the team is doing something different or new.

Other times some resouces that originally were going to be spent on a project later goes moved to something else so the project has to be shut down, or some key staff or team that was needed for later get in other project and finally aren't available. Or sometimes the market changes during development and even if when started there was a market for it, later the player preferences change and that type of game gets outdated.

Making games is very hard, specially to predict and plan for the long term. Even for the top teams. But yes, as Hermen recently said it's important to detect as soon as possible that a project won't work and can't be fixed, because if a project has to be cancelled it's important to detect it as fast as possible because that means to throw less money to the garbage bin.

Sony now has a powerful GaaS lineup of teams and staff, but back when TLOU Online was greenlighted didn't. ND did great MP modes and TLOU is a top IP, so on paper a TLOU MP idea looked good. But a GaaS involves many specific things that required dedicated experts that Sony didn't have back then.
 
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On topic..

Well of course they have to overhaul the UI and other graphical elements ... they were caught "stealing".

they might actually had to go scorched earth with it.
the amount of stolen assets might have been too high to risk keeping most of the textures and UI elements, so I could see them basically making all of them again based on the designs they had, but legally distinct
 
Oh really? I heard you say almost the exact opposite when Marathon had it's alpha next to ARCs beta.
My initial disappointment to Marathon really stemmed from it's DNA not coming from Escape from Tarkov, but rather Delta Force. Now that I've been playing that game for the last few weeks, that inspiration isn't as bad as I initially thought.

And it's going to be waaaaay better than Delta Force.
 
they might actually had to go scorched earth with it.
the amount of stolen assets might have been too high to risk keeping most of the textures and UI elements, so I could see them basically making all of them again based on the designs they had, but legally distinct
Should of just paid the guy and made him "staff" for the project even if they dont do anything else past that.

Like at least the game had an art direction with the prior style. Now its just what? It looks like that old Neotokoyo mod from Half-Life 2

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It's a co-op extraction shooter and Bungie needs to start earning. They're not going to waste money on single player content.
And people not gonna waste money on just a game mode like extraction shooter, there is no hype for this game mode turned into a genre, it's not comparable to battle royale or hero shooters that had all devs chasing those trends, there is a reson for that
 
My initial disappointment to Marathon really stemmed from it's DNA not coming from Escape from Tarkov, but rather Delta Force. Now that I've been playing that game for the last few weeks, that inspiration isn't as bad as I initially thought.

And it's going to be waaaaay better than Delta Force.
Fair enough.

And I fully expect it to be better than Delta Force because that game is just pure trash.
Tbh, it's a low bar. Lol
 
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When it comes to live service, some people are completely irrational.

And I highly doubt it's as easy as 'just letting someone else support it'.
The game was practically complete, but Sony wouldn't even have a studio to 'take over' from ND anyway.

Practically complete? Even dumber. Just another live service L for Sony this gen I guess.
 
...it's not comparable to battle royale or hero shooters that had all devs chasing those trends, there is a reson for that
You do realize PlayStation (Marathon), Ubisoft (2 extraction shooters), Krafton (Black Budget), Tencent (3 extraction shooters), and Nexon (ARC Raiders) are working on titles in the genre right?

Edit: Activision seems to be working on DMZ 2 as well.
 
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Who asked them to support a Fornite clone live service game? People just wanted so have some fun between 2 single player sessions. The problem is they weren't making billions of dollars with Factions 1 which is why they didn't do Factions 2. Those fucking managers.
You can't just release a multiplayer mode or game anymore. That's not the way it works. People expect a full effort and constant development and updates for anything with multiplayer.
 
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You can't just release a multiplayer mode or game anymore. That's not the way it works. People expect a full effort and constant development and updates for anything with multiplayer.
People don't give COD enough credit, you get AAA - zombies, multiplayer and a campaign, it's huge value vs some random ass upfront cost GAAS money grab. These games just don't exist in a vacuum.

Also, sadly, Marathon as a vibe is too exotic to not have a big campaign investment to really establish it on the scene.
 
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People don't give COD enough credit, you get AAA - zombies, multiplayer and a campaign, it's huge value vs some random ass upfront cost GAAS money grab.
Yup. And within MP, there's tons of modes including bot mode if a gamer doesnt want to play against other people.

An the games are pretty consistent. Ya, some are better than others but it's not like one game to the next is a giant 180. The setting might be (WWII vs modern), but the games are pretty predictable in gameplay. And you got shit tons of people playing so you know there's always an active user base.

And best of all for gamers who like playing ancient COD games (like me), Activision leaves their servers on forever. I was playing a few matches of World at War on the weekend. Xbox still has about 500 players during peak hours. You get the occasional modded cheater and the lobbies some reason freeze requiring a reboot sometimes, but during the peak hours youll still get into a game of TDM. That game came out in 2008.
 
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Yup. And within MP, there's tons of modes including bot mode if a gamer doesnt want to play against other people.

An the games are pretty consistent. Ya, some are better than others but it's not like one game to the next is a giant 180. The setting might be (WWII vs modern), but the games are pretty predictable in gameplay. And you got shit tons of people playing so you know there's always an active user base.

And best of all for gamers who like playing ancient COD games (like me), Activision leaves their servers on forever. I was playing a few matches of World at War on the weekend. Xbox still has about 500 players during peak hours. You get the occasional modded cheater and the lobbies some reason freeze, but during the peak hours youll still get into a game of TDM. That game came out in 2008.
It feels like the same guy went on an ill advised coke binge and came up with Concord, Marathon and Fairgame$ at the same time.
 
It feels like the same guy went on an ill advised coke binge and came up with Concord, Marathon and Fairgame$ at the same time.
Not guy. Guys. Specifically Sony guys.

Sony execs opened up the wallet in that 2019-2022 kind of period. Firewalk/Concord, Bungie/Marathon, Haven/Fairgames, Neon Koi mobile studio, Deviation Games game, and a mish mash of other new MP/GAAS games that have already been cancelled or still WIP. They did get one new smash hit in Helldivers 2. That's it. Even their new Destiny 2 DLC barely does anything compared to the old ones.

If you were a game studio with a shooter GAAS idea on a Burger King napkin, that time period you could had hit the lottery with Sony. Just text them a pic of the scribbled idea and they'd sign you up or buy you out next week.
 
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What's the point in releasing a live service game you won't be able to support?

don't make it a live service game... factions 1 wasn't a live service game either was it? it was just a multiplayer mode.

somehow publishers are allergic to releasing just normal multiplayer games or modes now.
 
don't make it a live service game... factions 1 wasn't a live service game either was it? it was just a multiplayer mode.

somehow publishers are allergic to releasing just normal multiplayer games or modes now.
I dont see how or why it was so impossible to keep Factions 2 viable in terms of resources and support.

Sony spent billions on external studios like money was no object. If Concord can somehow get greenlit mega funds to buy out the studio and complete the game with tons of planned vignettes to support the game, any shooter can. They couldnt piece out some of that money for Factions 2? A gritty shooter game from an established IP, which also seemed to get positive vibes whenever I heard about it.

So trash that, and sink mega millions into Bungie and random new studios with zero games under their belt except some prototype builds. Got it.

There just had been some kind of veto power Druckmann has where if he doesnt want anyone else working on Factions 2, he gets the call to cancel it. Because Sony sure had the money to spend to beef up the studio and support the game.
 
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Sorry bungie, my money is on arc raiders
Speaking of overly exotic unestablished ill advised microtransaction grabs...

They couldn't even get past the damn logo without completely fucking it up for themselves.

(Yes, 70s scifi is super cool but you're going to struggle your ass off with that shit.)
 
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don't make it a live service game... factions 1 wasn't a live service game either was it? it was just a multiplayer mode.

somehow publishers are allergic to releasing just normal multiplayer games or modes now.
Factions 1 not being live service is what made it a fun but rather pointless addition to TLOU.

There was rather little incentive to really play it long-term.
Ghost of Tushima Legends had the same issue.
They were archaic concepts in a time where live service was on the rise.

That's why I hope GoY Legends will evolve into more of a live-service 'game' than the original.

But I think we're getting way off-topic here.
 
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don't make it a live service game... factions 1 wasn't a live service game either was it? it was just a multiplayer mode.

somehow publishers are allergic to releasing just normal multiplayer games or modes now.

Factions 1 wasn't live service but had some elements.

Some publishers are just blind and greedily chasing the live service pie.
 
They have to try because it'd be a gigantic waste of everything if they didn't and they've come this far. But the question is will they be successful? Hell, I'm unsure. But I hope they are for their sake. It'd be such a shame if they fail.
 
If the gameplay is good enough (it was with Factions, got a little worse with the pay to win shit they brought in) then you don't need constant new skins and battle passes and progress bars to fill. Sony isn't catering to that crowd this gen though, they're trying to cater to the people who need constant rewards and will spend money to look the coolest.
 
You're asking the wrong question:

Why wouldn't you want fresh content on a regular basis for a multiplayer-game you enjoy?

because live service games usually launch with a fraction of the content a proper MP game does, only to dripfeed stuff over the span of years.
on top of that, live service games are usually the buggiest spaghetti code disasters on the market. barely anything works properly, because of constant patches that break stuff faster than the devs can fix it.

the majority of the focus of live service games is just selling cosmetics anyway. there's usually barely any meaningful gameplay or content changes, especially when we are talking about PvP games.
you get maybe 1 meaningful update a year, with small miniscule ones in-between, but dozens of character/weapon skins and battlepasses to extract money.

Halo Reach launched with more MP content than most Live Service games these days have after years of updates... and Reach wasn't even a dedicated MP game.
 
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If the gameplay is good enough (it was with Factions, got a little worse with the pay to win shit they brought in) then you don't need constant new skins and battle passes and progress bars to fill. Sony isn't catering to that crowd this gen though, they're trying to cater to the people who need constant rewards and will spend money to look the coolest.
It's not about needing it, it's a service provided by the developer.

That's why it's called a live service game.

You can always just skip the skins. Such a retarded rhetoric.
 
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