AndoCalrissian
Member
Rahul said:
I'll check 'er out.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
New Revolution Rumours
- Thread starter Salmon
- Start date
I'll check 'er out.
Johnny Nighttrain...
I didn't say the controller would change shape...just the surface of one of the buttons. Look at the clues I listed, what this rumor states and my idea and maybe then you can understand what I'm getting at.
AndoCalrissian...
I think it'll have gyration control too...but this rumor clearly says that it'll have gyration so when he goes on to say that there's MORE to Revolution I'm looking beyond just the gyration aspect.
OniShiro...
As far as wearing "gear" or doing motion capture it wouldn't work. Nintendo wants pick up play games...to take 5 to 10 minutes to put on gear and such is just a hassle. Motion capture like with Eye Toy is okay for some games, but not everyone wants to flail like an idiot in front of their TV. Plus let's say that you wanna play a multiplayer game...is everyone who plays gonna have to have this gear? Is the lense of the motion capture device going to have to be moved to each player...it just get's too complicated.
Again guys this "revolution" is something "that isn't new, but HASN'T been used with gaming before" and it's something that fits with his "touching is good, but feeling is better" hint. I'm not the type to take some guy I don't know's comments as truth...I just like to speculate. And my final speculation for this is not more sensitive force feedback or resistance control or something we already know like motion capture or gyro motion control...MY idea is for a sensory "feel" button. Look at the clues & idea's in my previous post...I know it sounds a lil' loony, but it's totally doable 'cos I've seen electronic brail machines do it!
I didn't say the controller would change shape...just the surface of one of the buttons. Look at the clues I listed, what this rumor states and my idea and maybe then you can understand what I'm getting at.
AndoCalrissian...
I think it'll have gyration control too...but this rumor clearly says that it'll have gyration so when he goes on to say that there's MORE to Revolution I'm looking beyond just the gyration aspect.
OniShiro...
As far as wearing "gear" or doing motion capture it wouldn't work. Nintendo wants pick up play games...to take 5 to 10 minutes to put on gear and such is just a hassle. Motion capture like with Eye Toy is okay for some games, but not everyone wants to flail like an idiot in front of their TV. Plus let's say that you wanna play a multiplayer game...is everyone who plays gonna have to have this gear? Is the lense of the motion capture device going to have to be moved to each player...it just get's too complicated.
Again guys this "revolution" is something "that isn't new, but HASN'T been used with gaming before" and it's something that fits with his "touching is good, but feeling is better" hint. I'm not the type to take some guy I don't know's comments as truth...I just like to speculate. And my final speculation for this is not more sensitive force feedback or resistance control or something we already know like motion capture or gyro motion control...MY idea is for a sensory "feel" button. Look at the clues & idea's in my previous post...I know it sounds a lil' loony, but it's totally doable 'cos I've seen electronic brail machines do it!
DrGAKMAN said:
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?p=894884&posted=1#post894884
My submission for the GA contest. I'm also taking what Nintendo has cryptically stated and these rumors. That's why I believe the Revolution controller is gonna be... ta-da... Virtual styluses. Laser pens with rumble feedback according to what your laser is doing. Simple. Crap. And something idiotic that I fear Nintendo is gonna pull out. It may be a fun way of playing 4 player Wario Ware (Everyone shooting their lasers onto the television), but it's got a shortsightedness that makes me think I've stumbled onto something.
Enigma said:
Thanks for posting on topic and quoting me. However, did you read my idea in relation to what this rumor is? If we are to speculate on this rumor he does say: "touching is good, but FEELING is better". How is a "virtual stylus" giving the player any kind of feeling. I've said this before, but to me...to touch (as in using a touch screen) is to touch a game...but to FEEL is to have the game touch you back.
On to your idea though (I went over to you Revolution Contest post to check it out...and thanks for your submission). Call me dumb, but how would a "virtual stylus" work? To my knowledge, those pen lasers have yet to be made to interact with on screen images. Even if they could how could one see the beams...it would be like drawing without seeing the pen you're holding to draw with? I could see maybe having a motion tracking camera that would detect these laser beams and thru them sence movement and such...but...isn't that what gyro's in the controller are for? To my knowledge, even with a tracking system in place for these beams, it wouldn't work as well as gyration control as with gyro's you could sense basic movement, anglular movement, depth of movement and a much broader range of motion than a tracking system following a pen laser.
If we are to believe this rumor...he states that gyration control is already in place...and that would do a better job than your "virtual stylus" idea...to me anyways. The revolution, however, he says has to do with FEELING...which is where my idea comes in. I'm going to re-submit my total Revolution idea before the deadline and hopefully then you'll be able to see what I mean. Also, in my previous submission "The GameWand" I already had a light sensor built into each wand...making them virtual lightgun's....nothing really new there. But my idea of a sensory button (whose surface changes texture and even can form shapes and symbols for you to feel) where the game touches you would be more revolutionary.
AndoCalrissian
Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Er, he did talk about the virtual styli having force feedback.
And you might want to rethink the name "GameWand".
AndoCalrissian said:
Ummm...yeah, but isn't that just rumble...no more sense of FEELING than what we already have today...and that was my point. How does a "virtual stylus" with an already industry standerd force feedback included give a new sense of FEELING?
Also...about calling my controller interface "The GameWand"...before we had controllers we had joysticks. That too is a, uhhh, sorta perverted name. But I also thought of calling it "The GameTool" or "The GameGrip", but even those have alternate perverted meanings...so you can't really win there.
AndoCalrissian
Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Wavebird. Dual Shock. Controller S. There's no law that says "game" has to be in the name, and with many people calling Nintendo kiddy, "wand" shouldn't make the cut either. I'm not saying I could come up with a better name, I'm just saying that GameWand doesn't quite make it.
As for your controller interface, I dunno, I'm having trouble coming up with a bunch of examples for how to use it, or why it is that much better vs. regular control.
Wow...so much over a name? You go on and on about that but not my actual ideas? Man! Anyways, there's a reason I named it GameWand. Game & Watch, GameBoy, GameCube, GameEye...see the Nintendo trend. Maybe "GameGrip" would be better afterall?
Anyways...
I have to ask...are you actually even catching the grasp of the idea of a sensory button 'cos you're talking like you wouldn't know how it could be used in a game? Okay...I dunno how I could really tell you how it works except to say that there are these gadget's that can actually read normal letters off of some kind of scribe (book, magazine, newspaper, etc.) and translate it to brail on the fly so blind people can read them. Now forget it being used for brail or to translate and instead apply the technolgy to making textures & symbols & shapes for you to feel instead.
As far as examples go...it's just as elaborate as say the touch screen really. I already gave examples in my initial sensory button idea post but I'll give more. Okay...say you in a part of a game that takes place in the dark and you can't see anything on screen until you feel around for a match with the sensory button. In another game imagine having to press this sensory button at a specific time, not only by what's going on in the game on screen, but also by an emblem on the button...the screen may say timing is right, but the button may have a stop sign on it telling you to wait. Another game could call for you to "calm the waves" and the button (and on screen visuals) can help you feel how torrent the actually water is. Another game could give you a message that you feel like a passcode that you'll have to enter on screen later on in the game. Imagine a Star Wars game where you get a ripple effect in the button when you feel something in "the forcce"...or in a Spider-Man game you get a a Spider-Sense! The button could even give you an arrow to act as a compass. They can even animate the button to make it feel like your floating or sinking...different textures will give you either a more solid feel or even a soft jelly feel...
I mean really...the possibilities go as far as your imagination.
Anyways...
I have to ask...are you actually even catching the grasp of the idea of a sensory button 'cos you're talking like you wouldn't know how it could be used in a game? Okay...I dunno how I could really tell you how it works except to say that there are these gadget's that can actually read normal letters off of some kind of scribe (book, magazine, newspaper, etc.) and translate it to brail on the fly so blind people can read them. Now forget it being used for brail or to translate and instead apply the technolgy to making textures & symbols & shapes for you to feel instead.
As far as examples go...it's just as elaborate as say the touch screen really. I already gave examples in my initial sensory button idea post but I'll give more. Okay...say you in a part of a game that takes place in the dark and you can't see anything on screen until you feel around for a match with the sensory button. In another game imagine having to press this sensory button at a specific time, not only by what's going on in the game on screen, but also by an emblem on the button...the screen may say timing is right, but the button may have a stop sign on it telling you to wait. Another game could call for you to "calm the waves" and the button (and on screen visuals) can help you feel how torrent the actually water is. Another game could give you a message that you feel like a passcode that you'll have to enter on screen later on in the game. Imagine a Star Wars game where you get a ripple effect in the button when you feel something in "the forcce"...or in a Spider-Man game you get a a Spider-Sense! The button could even give you an arrow to act as a compass. They can even animate the button to make it feel like your floating or sinking...different textures will give you either a more solid feel or even a soft jelly feel...
I mean really...the possibilities go as far as your imagination.
truesayian
Banned
Nintendo said at the beggenning of this generation, they had plans for use of a hard drive... and that they would eventually need to have a hard drive for games..
truesayian
Banned
Nintendo has said... Miyamoto spefically said that then they have games that need a hard drive to work with, they will make a hard drive to use. I have it in an old next gen magazine interview.
AndoCalrissian
Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Why are you on the offensive here?
I get your idea, but I just don't think it is a good one, and that is a perfectly valid opinion. I didn't believe that your sensory button is a good idea when I first read it (although it is a unique one) and I still don't, even given your recent examples. I understand that people use machines like this, but I'm not convinced that the general public would like to have to feel all of these different things, when they could calm the water visually, or look at a compas onscreen, or get their Spider-Sense through existing rumble technology. I see it as a unique thing, that could be cool as a peripheral for certain games, much like the bongo drums for Donkey Konga and Jungle Beat, or the Maraccas for Samba de Amigo, but not as a main feature. I think its just a bit too offbeat.
As far as the name, I don't see any objects branded Game Bongo Controllers, Wavegamebirds, Game Solar Sensors, Game Tilt Paks, Game Rumble Paks, or Game Ram Expansion, nor did the SNES, NES and Nintendo 64 consoles have "game" anywhere in the title. You said it yourself that "GameWand" could have bad connotations, I just said you might want to reconsider the name, some reasons why, and gave you some current generation controller names.
DrGAKMAN said:
props for being creative and all in your ideas.
but "game wand " has to go...
might as well call it the pretty pink princess "q" (for those macho men who like it round the back side) lol
grip , extension, rod, tool, or something like that would sound less homoerotic. but still suggestive to that subliminal sex sells idea.
as far as the button your talking about. your descriptions make it sound more complex and complicated then nintendo's current button layout. the different shaped buttons work great for feal. if nintendo is to make gaming more open for everyone a button that changes feel or shape making you not hit it even though on screen it says hit it like you said would frustrate and confuse a lot of gamers and even more so non gamers.
i might have misunderstood your description though.
Okay fine...I'll call it "The GameGrip"!!! Geez...so much over the name. Although (in the way I have the controller interface layed out there's a grip for each hand) it would be kinda gay to say use the left wand as oppssed to saying use the left grip...
I am sorry if I seem offensive of my idea of a sensory button...I just think it's a good idea so I'm defending it. Not only do I think it's a good idea in general, but I think it fits VERY well with this rumors hints of it not being used in games before AND the whole idea of touching is good but FEELING is better. Certainly fits with the clues better than more sensitive force feedback, resistance control or virtual styli, etc.
And also, maybe the revolution is simply a combination of what we know (force feedback, normal buttons, etc.) WITH newer ideas (gyration, touch screen, etc.) PLUS something completly new to gaming...the sensory button. The touch screen on the DS is *very* inviting to non-gamers as it's a more natural way to interact with games than memorizing button layouts or other less inviting complexity in normal controllers today. A sensory button would only amplify that idea 'cos it let's games touch you back.
Non-gamers & gamers alike are intrigued by virtual reality...but we're simply not at that point yet...but don't you think that once we get there we'll want MORE than to just see and be in an imaginary virtual world? We'll want to touch it and feel it too. You'd have to almost be wearing a full sensory body suit to make it feel real or trick your brain into thinking you are actually touching and being touched. But technology isn't there yet, nor has society been conditioned for it...nor have companies found affordable ways to do it. Yeah maybe they could make gloves that give you these sensory feelings...but that isn't as easy or practical or cheap as simply integrating a small bit of touch/feel (like in my sensory button idea) into the existing controller interface. In conjunction with gyration motion control in that same controller interface and BAM we're on our way. I think, even if my sensory button idea is not used for gameplay input and just used as a means to touch players and give them more immersion (like the rumble pak did...only much much more) then that would be a gaming revolution and would help to attract non-gamers into gaming moreso than the touch screen is doing now.
I am sorry if I seem offensive of my idea of a sensory button...I just think it's a good idea so I'm defending it. Not only do I think it's a good idea in general, but I think it fits VERY well with this rumors hints of it not being used in games before AND the whole idea of touching is good but FEELING is better. Certainly fits with the clues better than more sensitive force feedback, resistance control or virtual styli, etc.
And also, maybe the revolution is simply a combination of what we know (force feedback, normal buttons, etc.) WITH newer ideas (gyration, touch screen, etc.) PLUS something completly new to gaming...the sensory button. The touch screen on the DS is *very* inviting to non-gamers as it's a more natural way to interact with games than memorizing button layouts or other less inviting complexity in normal controllers today. A sensory button would only amplify that idea 'cos it let's games touch you back.
Non-gamers & gamers alike are intrigued by virtual reality...but we're simply not at that point yet...but don't you think that once we get there we'll want MORE than to just see and be in an imaginary virtual world? We'll want to touch it and feel it too. You'd have to almost be wearing a full sensory body suit to make it feel real or trick your brain into thinking you are actually touching and being touched. But technology isn't there yet, nor has society been conditioned for it...nor have companies found affordable ways to do it. Yeah maybe they could make gloves that give you these sensory feelings...but that isn't as easy or practical or cheap as simply integrating a small bit of touch/feel (like in my sensory button idea) into the existing controller interface. In conjunction with gyration motion control in that same controller interface and BAM we're on our way. I think, even if my sensory button idea is not used for gameplay input and just used as a means to touch players and give them more immersion (like the rumble pak did...only much much more) then that would be a gaming revolution and would help to attract non-gamers into gaming moreso than the touch screen is doing now.
I am brainstorming here, so take this with a grain of salt, what if it monitored your vital signs and did rudimentary EMG analysis as well:
Playing RE5. Sweating. Heart racing. Muscles twitching. Blood pressure dropping. All gets analyzed and creates a realistic scenario of lowered accuracy, things appearing to be moving faster than they are, etc.
Kinda like the Insanity meter of ED, but something more appropriate. It may be gimmicky or it could bring a new sense of realism.
Playing RE5. Sweating. Heart racing. Muscles twitching. Blood pressure dropping. All gets analyzed and creates a realistic scenario of lowered accuracy, things appearing to be moving faster than they are, etc.
Kinda like the Insanity meter of ED, but something more appropriate. It may be gimmicky or it could bring a new sense of realism.
-SRV- said:
now that is a pretty crazy idea.
hell they cram all that technology into tiny things now adays, it could easily be wired into a controller in a way that it reads your heart beat through the palm or thumb.
not all games would make use of it but would be a hell of an option if a developer chose to use it.
-SRV- said:
Or better yet, when your heart starts racing, it would take notice that you were really upset and lowered the difficulty. This way when I was fighting a boss that I thought was a cheap POS, I could start running in place and get my difficulty lowered
This would go a long way towards elimating my recent distaste of all bosses.AndoCalrissian
Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Probably my biggest issue with your button, is that I don't go around feeling everything with my thumb. The only time I really use my thumb to feel anything is when I'm pushing a button. Now, if the controller's entire backside was covered, maybe then, but even that is a stretch. I honestly think this is better left to virtual reality and a more complete haptic system. People are going to wonder why only their thumb is feeling these things, and the novelty will wear off.
Moving on to other topics, I thought I heard about a game that monitored your heart rate, etc. a few years ago.
AndoCalrissian
Member
I was thinking today, when I was on break at work, when I came to a realization about the ability of Revolution to connect to a PC monitor: a lot of PC monitors don't generate sound. This has led me to three possible conclusions, although there are more I probably haven't thought of:
1. Revolution is supposed to connect to two displays at once (TV and TV, or TV and PC)
2. Revolution generates sound by itself
3. Revolution, if connected to a PC monitor without speakers, would have to hook up to a seperate sound generating device.
Could Revolution generate its own sound for portability purposes?
1. Revolution is supposed to connect to two displays at once (TV and TV, or TV and PC)
2. Revolution generates sound by itself
3. Revolution, if connected to a PC monitor without speakers, would have to hook up to a seperate sound generating device.
Could Revolution generate its own sound for portability purposes?
soundwave05
Member
I get the feeling Revolution is gonna be really "out there".
Game Boy Evolution will be their more "by the numbers" game machine.
I think Nintendo already ruled out the Revolution being a "dual display" machine like the DS is though.
Game Boy Evolution will be their more "by the numbers" game machine.
I think Nintendo already ruled out the Revolution being a "dual display" machine like the DS is though.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
-SRV- said:
I like that idea alot, it's not something that most games would probably make use of though, as it implies that a game should generate such strong emotional responses that your vital signs would change. Most games simply don't do that.
I'm worried though, because it seems like Nintendo always thinks that videogames as a whole are in need of a major paradigm shift in the way they are approached, and while nintendo has had some brilliant insights and contributions, I can't help but feel that recently they've been trying to innovate for the sake of innovating...hoping one of their stabs at genius actually hits the mark.
I genuinely do hope they get it right this time. If they don't, and revolution flops, it bothers me to think of a two machine race between sony and microsoft. I'm reminded of a post quite a while back (i think it was here) when someone had mentioned that their ouija board had predicted that sony and ms would eventually be the only 2 real competitors left.
soundwave05
Member
morbidaza said:
I'm sorry but that just cracked me up for some reason :lol :lol
WHOAguitarninja
Member
soundwave05 said:
Oh beleive me, it was quite humorous at the time, it still is.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
"Why do people keep focusing on the gyro tech, WHEN THE GUY ALREADY SAID THAT THAT WAS IN IT..... BUT WASNT THE REVOLUTIONARY PART!!!!!"
There, that's better. Want to make sure your post stands out, was a bit plain before.
There, that's better. Want to make sure your post stands out, was a bit plain before.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Although creativity of Nintendo can be argued, there is no denying the creativity of Nintendo fans. Rubbable surfaces? Daisy-chain networks? How cool is that!
Unfortunately, history suggests that the Nintendo "revolution" will not be anything technologically ground breaking, but instead something widely used neatly repackaged to gaming context - kinda how Nintendo DS repackages PDA tech for gaming. It doesn't blow anybody away in a wow, you can TOUCH that screen?!! but it is rather fun anyway.
Totally new technology isn't mass-manufacture friendly, and by taking a look at Nintendo products it's easy to see that Nintendo introduces components when the volumes are already up, even if for some other market - wireless is another example of this.
Nintendo's comments seem to suggest something on these lines, too.
Unfortunately, history suggests that the Nintendo "revolution" will not be anything technologically ground breaking, but instead something widely used neatly repackaged to gaming context - kinda how Nintendo DS repackages PDA tech for gaming. It doesn't blow anybody away in a wow, you can TOUCH that screen?!! but it is rather fun anyway.
Totally new technology isn't mass-manufacture friendly, and by taking a look at Nintendo products it's easy to see that Nintendo introduces components when the volumes are already up, even if for some other market - wireless is another example of this.
Nintendo's comments seem to suggest something on these lines, too.
TheDiave said:
Huh?
Although I've been following this closer than even most Nintendo fans (call me a super Nintendo whore if you will) but there have been *3* distinct rumors about Revolution.
The first real rumor (besides just fanboy *cough*IGN-Matt*cough* wishlists) comes from N-Sider's "source" before the DS was even unveiled I believe:
-console codename = "Revolution", next GameBoy codename = "Evolution"
-console will sport a HD, multi-core processor, next generation disc tech. (BR or more likely HD-DVD), online, and DVD playback
-shell design will be more like N64 than GCN
-2 systems being designed, one with more modest specs and the other with higher "just in case" specs
-GameBoy Evolution will be above that of DC vicuals, plays mini discs, does BC with old GameBoy games thru means of an adaptor (Evolution features a HD too?)
The next rumor was the one that this topic is based on thru something I think Johny Nighttrain found:
-controller will have gyro motion tech.
-revolutionary feature is something that isn't new...but new to gaming
-dude comments and says something like: "touching is good, but FEELING is better"
-says controller won't be wireless, but Nintendo will make a wireless one later
The third and most recent rumor was from "a guy" who had suppossedly seen something that Nintendo was going to present at a shareholers meeting, poorly wrote/drew it down from memory which showed/stated:
-named "Nintendo 21"
-again a HD included
-shell design is like the GCN only octagonal shaped???
-controller has an analog stick, but no C-Stick
-controller may feature gyro motion tech. (I think?)
-controller has an expansion port (like N64 controller?)
-system uses encased mini disc's (which are either double-sided or/or double layered?) which hold close to 6GB's of data and somehow allow for GCN BC
-revolutionary feature is some sort of "rubbing" in where the controller can feel how the player touches the controller and feels the "buttons" (rubbing, scratching, tickling, pressing???)
-"buttons" are wart-like as if they have this rubbable skin over them
-and some kind of "Nintendo Home" network (unclear) theory
-2005 release (maybe it meant 2005 Japanese launch?)
Now the N-Sider rumor really was more specs than anything, the other two rumors suggest this notion that the revolutionary feature will allow for new ways to touch/feel games via the controller. Any one of these things could fit with what Nintendo could be doing really.
The only things Nintendo has said CONCRETLY (yet vaguely) is:
-that they're researching console design
-researching new ways to interact with games
-they are working behind the scenes to do online games
-more open to media convergence (DVD playback possible)
-revolution will be playable on PC monitors out of the box
-no A & B buttons or D-Pad
-BC with GCN confirmed (although...a while back ago)
-Reggie spoke of the idea's of "community" and wireless focus
-come out at the same time as their competitors
-will be a revolution in gaming and/or a "shift" in gaming
-look to Nintendo DS as it will be a foreshaddowing of what the revolution will be like
-want to make a system that garners new gamers and get's non-gamers into gaming with a more open/less complicated embrace
There were other rumors before N-Sider's too, about how Nintendo next console would be co-produced with NEC, Cray Super Computers, Samsung (I think?) and a Japanese network company (maybe NT) for their own Nintendo media/communication "HUB" idea. The rumor suggested that the next console would be a console/portable hybrid, Nintendo would bow out of hardware and instead licence the tech. to electronics companies in a hardware licencing profit structure (ie: iMac's, PC laptops & future DVD players/set-top boxes with the ability to play Nintendo games). But that was sort of a far-fetched idea from an out-there "source".
AndoCalrissian
Member
Well, Nintendo didn't say that there would be no A, B, or Dpad, that was from some news article I believe. Still, good summary.
ImNotLikeThem
Member
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if this time around, Nintendo actualy did support DVD playback. Perhaps not HD or BD DVD, but wouldn't you think with them entering the animatoin business, it would be not only convenient, but practical for them to say "Hey, look! Buy the new Nintendo Revolution and you can not only play your favorite Nintendo games, but now your favorite Nintendo DVD movies!" or perhaps i dream to great again...
Another rumor (that I never considerd true) was from "some dude at EA" who suppossedly saw the Revolution's controller and he said it was just one big touchscreen tablet. While I think that might be kinda cool there's still big problems with this IMO. One...you can't feel the buttons at all...how would you know when you're pressing them? Two, as far as I know touch screens can only sense one point being touched onscreen. It may be a precise pinpoint or a large thumbpoint, but it can't sense two seperate points at the same time.
Slightly off topic...
Tommorrow is the final day for the "GAF Revolution Contest". I'm off tonight so I'll be finalizing two different designs...but just remember, I was the one who called the touch/feel sensory button/buttons/controller. One design is my ideal design and more/less what I'd like Nintendo to do, the other being more basic and more along the lines of what I think Nintendo will actually do.
Slightly off topic...
Tommorrow is the final day for the "GAF Revolution Contest". I'm off tonight so I'll be finalizing two different designs...but just remember, I was the one who called the touch/feel sensory button/buttons/controller. One design is my ideal design and more/less what I'd like Nintendo to do, the other being more basic and more along the lines of what I think Nintendo will actually do.
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