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[Narpas Sword0]

If 78% of the country "learned personal finance" it would mean they stop spending any money on personal leisure (and also a lot of things we view as basic) which would instantly collapse the economy

They are simply not making enough money to have anything close to the lifestyle that people in this country are accustomed to having. Halting attempts to live what we call a halfway decent life would have a big social impact on top of the economic impact.

Shaming people for buying anything more extravagant than than groceries, a tiny apartment and a 20 year old car is really stupid. They need to be paid more money.

The 1920s clearly

You're referring to the part where gigantic tax cuts for the rich immediatley preceded an economic collapse? Where have we seen that again?

 

[Apharmd]

Narpas and ApharmdX are right. Personal finance is 10% (hell smaller than that)

The top hoarding everything is 90%. This shit is on them and on racists happily setting themselves on fire so that minorities can also be on fire.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Right?

This is one of the biggest things that HAS to happen.

Student loan debt is the other elephant in the room.

If more than two-thirds of our economy is on consumer spending, then it serves that educated people who have the means for discretionary spending do not participate or participate very little due to student loans.

This does not bode well for our economy going forward.

 

[sojour]

Making 32K (pre-tax lol) with a masters (in a science field) sucks.

I'm living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck, though I do include having savings as a necessity.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

If 78% of the country "learned personal finance" it would mean they stop spending any money on personal leisure (and also a lot of things we view as basic) which would instantly collapse the economy

They are simply not making enough money to have anything close to the lifestyle that people in this country are accustomed to having. Halting attempts to live what we call a halfway decent life would have a big social impact on top of the economic impact.

Shaming people for buying anything more extravagant than than groceries, a tiny apartment and a 20 year old car is really stupid. They need to be paid more money.



You're referring to the part where gigantic tax cuts for the rich immediatley preceded an economic collapse? Where have we seen that again?

Exactly.

If the US suddenly went Japan when it comes to saving and budgeting, our economy would be at rock-bottom.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

You're referring to the part where gigantic tax cuts for the rich immediatley preceded an economic collapse? Where have we seen that again?

It'll totally work this time we promise!

 

[Foffy]

Making 32K (pre-tax lol) with a masters (in a science field) sucks.

I'm living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck, though I do include having savings as a necessity.

Be happy you can even have savings. Many Americans don't even have $500 in savings.

Things are fucking toxic in this hellhole.

 

[Puggles]

At least I'm not alone. I've had to eat spoon fulls of peanut butter for lunch far more than I'd like to admit.

 

[mattwhite924]

I get super frustrated with financial things sometimes, but threads like these make me realize that I really should stop complaining and count my blessings.
The idea of living paycheck to paycheck, or not having enough savings to deal with a sudden emergency sounds terrifying to me. No one should have to live like that.

 

[Domaje]

So either 78% of American workers are stupid or something is wrong with America.

.

 

[Foffy]

I get super frustrated with financial things sometimes, but threads like these make me realize that I really should stop complaining and count my blessings.
The idea of living paycheck to paycheck, or not having enough savings to deal with a sudden emergency sounds terrifying to me. No one should have to live like that.

Worse still, this dualistic culture is quick to allow people to blame themselves for these problems, and not the system that's given them this problem.

That gets to me most. How many blame themselves for their precarity, failing to realize precarity is curated by factors beyond oneself? Too much bootstrap bullshit is in the way of people getting this.

 

[SuperBanana]

That's an insane percentage and has to be seriously hurting the economy.

 

[fluffydelusions]

COL is outpacing wages by a mile.

Student debt doesn't help trust me

.

 

[Ron Mexico]

If 78% of the country "learned personal finance" it would mean they stop spending any money on personal leisure (and also a lot of things we view as basic) which would instantly collapse the economy

They are simply not making enough money to have anything close to the lifestyle that people in this country are accustomed to having. Halting attempts to live what we call a halfway decent life would have a big social impact on top of the economic impact.

Shaming people for buying anything more extravagant than than groceries, a tiny apartment and a 20 year old car is really stupid. They need to be paid more money.



You're referring to the part where gigantic tax cuts for the rich immediatley preceded an economic collapse? Where have we seen that again?

Exactly.

If the US suddenly went Japan when it comes to saving and budgeting, our economy would be at rock-bottom.

"Learning personal finance" goes beyond tightening the belt so hard that you're not spending a dime on anything other than "necessities".

Do you know how many people don't even know how to make out a check?

Or there's the over a billion dollars in ATM fees because we never bothered to teach how to even use their card properly? That's not even counting overdrafts which is still *the* top income driver for all the big banks.

The state of financial literacy here blows and dismissing it as either too insignificant or whatever is counter-productive.

 

[M3d10n]

We really need schools to start teaching personal finance.

Yeah, if all these people just stop spending beyond their means the economy will fix itself! /s

The "personal finance" solution is just telling the poor to actually live as poor. It fixes nothing at the large scale.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

If 78% of the country "learned personal finance" it would mean they stop spending any money on personal leisure (and also a lot of things we view as basic) which would instantly collapse the economy

They are simply not making enough money to have anything close to the lifestyle that people in this country are accustomed to having. Halting attempts to live what we call a halfway decent life would have a big social impact on top of the economic impact.

Shaming people for buying anything more extravagant than than groceries, a tiny apartment and a 20 year old car is really stupid. They need to be paid more money.



You're referring to the part where gigantic tax cuts for the rich immediatley preceded an economic collapse? Where have we seen that again?

Agreed, I always find it odd that people ignore the economic implications of these people saving money. Our economy is built on consumerism.

 

[DarkKyo]

Imagine how much the corporate overlords would lose if everyone in the US stopped working for a week in protest. It's a shame there's no global network where people can organize and plan...

 

[Narpas Sword0]

"Learning personal finance" goes beyond tightening the belt so hard that you're not spending a dime on anything other than "necessities".

Do you know how many people don't even know how to make out a check?

Or there's the over a billion dollars in ATM fees because we never bothered to teach how to even use their card properly? That's not even counting overdrafts which is still *the* top income driver for all the big banks.

The state of financial literacy here blows and dismissing it as either too insignificant or whatever is counter-productive.

Wages are so low and cost of necessities are so high that yes, you do need to tighten so hard that your life sucks and the economy also sucks if you want to balance the books (for most people)

Your post is like recommending that you hold in farts to help your dysentery

 

[Foffy]

Imagine how much the corporate overlords would lose if everyone in the US stopped working for a week in protest. It's a shame there's no global network where people can organize and plan...

We need a new poor people's march.

 

[emag]

What does living "paycheck-to-paycheck" mean?

If you're putting your savings in your 401(k) or your child's 529 -- that's money you can't touch -- and your checking/savings account doesn't have a significant enough buffer to cover an extra month's mortgage/rent/utilities/expenses/loan payments without your paycheck coming in on time, is that living paycheck-to-paycheck?

 

[Pilgrimzero]

This is me. Can't wait to retire to a cardboard box under a bridge.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Funny that I just saw this on reddit this morning

 

[mattwhite924]

Worse still, this dualistic culture is quick to allow people to blame themselves for these problems, and not the system that's given them this problem.

That gets to me most. How many blame themselves for their precarity, failing to realize precarity is curated by factors beyond oneself? Too much bootstrap bullshit is in the way of people getting this.

Yeah, it's hard to pull oneself up by the bootstraps when the system keeps taking the bootstraps away.

 

[PdotMichael]

Paychecks are still a thing in USA, eh?

 

[Epsilon-delta]

"Learning personal finance" goes beyond tightening the belt so hard that you're not spending a dime on anything other than "necessities".

Do you know how many people don't even know how to make out a check?

Or there's the over a billion dollars in ATM fees because we never bothered to teach how to even use their card properly? That's not even counting overdrafts which is still *the* top income driver for all the big banks.

The state of financial literacy here blows and dismissing it as either too insignificant or whatever is counter-productive.

I disagree.

Learning personal finance does not account for the drag on the economy unlike healthcare and student loans.

Financial literacy is not going to fix the economy in the slightest. It's making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Fancyarcher]

Because Americans are convinced that the 1% should lead the country, and dictate how money is divvied out to everyone else. They can't do that and create jobs if all their money is being taken by the greedy government who are terrible at managing funds, and want to "give" that money to poor people.

"Some Americans".

 

[Pagusas]

What percentage of Chineese, English, French, German and lets say Sweedish populations live paycheck to paycheck?

 

[El_Tiguere]

Some have already alluded to some of the solutions, but there is a lot of common sense shit that the government can do to boost the economy from the bottom up:

- Reform health care so that families and small businesses are not spending $600-$1,000 per month on for-profit private health insurance.

- The Federal Reserve goosed up the banks by over $4.5 TRILLION dollars, so why not take over the trillion in Student Loan Debt and subsidize all the millennials over-burdened by the repayment?

- Lift the minimum wage across the board and subsidize small businesses to help with the transition. FUCK the big corps... let the executives cut their pay from 300 times the median wage to something sustainable.

- Subsidize child care across the board. As a working parent of two, paying $2,000 for Day care every month is soul-crushing and it is money not being spent in the economy.

- Focus on free/better access to better education... not just education that churns out mindless worker bees.

There are a lot of good solutions out there, but the common denominator is corporate lobbyists and their paid-for friends in Congress stand in the way. Over the last 8 years, this has been a HUGE reason why the anti-establishment sentiment has grown to the current levels.

I like this article on 13 Ways to Strengthen America's Economy:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-17/13-ways-to-strengthen-america-s-economy

 

[Ron Mexico]

I disagree.

Learning personal finance does not account for the drag on the economy unlike healthcare and student loans.

Financial literacy is not going to fix the economy in the slightest. It's making a mountain out of a molehill.

$6.4 billion between ATM and overdraft fees-- and the average overdraft fee is for a transaction less than $24. Percentage-wise, you're beyond payday loan territory.

Let me try this again-- THIS WILL NOT SOLVE EVERYTHING ON ITS OWN. It's merely another piece of a much larger picture. Using your mountain and molehill bit-- it's one mountain in an entire range full of shit.

 

[BassForever]

Both are clearly true, even as someone who lived pay check to pay check my qol as a dirty poor did improve even slightly when I started being extremely budget conscious. Of course budgeting out and saying "after rent, loans, bills, and minimal cost food and gas I have $200 left over for the month" isn't exactly an uplifting feeling. I think the problem is a lot of poor people either can't afford or don't know how to find a path to better employment. Knowledge about networking, linkedin, and resume building are criminally under taught in schools and should be part of some kind of life skills class with budgeting.

Edit: this is of course without even tackling the issue of col vs wages, automation impacting jobs, etc.

 

[psyfi]

I live in Portland, OR and most people I know are barely staying afloat. Rents have skyrocketed here, most of the affordable grocery stores have been replaced by expensive ass yuppie stores, and social services are constantly getting slashed. Thankfully people are rising up more and more and taking care of each other independently of the government.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Some have already alluded to some of the solutions, but there is a lot of common sense shit that the government can do to boost the economy from the bottom up:

- Reform health care so that families and small businesses are not spending $600-$1,000 per month on for-profit private health insurance.

- The Federal Reserve goosed up the banks by over $4.5 TRILLION dollars, so why not take over the trillion in Student Loan Debt and subsidize all the millennials over-burdened by the repayment?

- Lift the minimum wage across the board and subsidize small businesses to help with the transition. FUCK the big corps... let the executives cut their pay from 300 times the median wage to something sustainable.

- Subsidize child care across the board. As a working parent of two, paying $2,000 for Day care every month is soul-crushing and it is money not being spent in the economy.

- Focus on free/better access to better education... not just education that churns out mindless worker bees.

There are a lot of good solutions out there, but the common denominator is corporate lobbyists and their paid-for friends in Congress stand in the way. Over the last 8 years, this has been a HUGE reason why the anti-establishment sentiment has grown to the current levels.

I like this article on 13 Ways to Strengthen America's Economy:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-17/13-ways-to-strengthen-america-s-economy

I wouldn't expect any of it while we have the cheeto running the country

 

[Regulus Tera]

meanwhile

Thanks Reagan

 

[Guevara]

What does living "paycheck-to-paycheck" mean?

If you're putting your savings in your 401(k) or your child's 521 -- that's money you can't touch -- and your checking/savings account doesn't have a significant enough buffer to cover an extra month's mortgage/rent/utilities/expenses/loan payments without your paycheck coming in on time, is that living paycheck-to-paycheck?

This isn't going to be the norm. The median retirement savings for American families is..... $5,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/07/how...ly-has-saved-for-retirement-at-every-age.html

 

[13ruce]

Guess i will put that moving America idea in the fridge, how is Germany etc? Any recommedations for countries with a nice economy etc to have a nice life.

They are all welcome currently live in the Netherlands wich also is meh these days.

First need to finish my school anyway so i got enough time to think about it.

 

[UserNotFound]

"Learning personal finance" goes beyond tightening the belt so hard that you're not spending a dime on anything other than "necessities".

Do you know how many people don't even know how to make out a check?

Or there's the over a billion dollars in ATM fees because we never bothered to teach how to even use their card properly? That's not even counting overdrafts which is still *the* top income driver for all the big banks.

The state of financial literacy here blows and dismissing it as either too insignificant or whatever is counter-productive.

This is like healing a shotgun wound with a Band-Aid.

More money going towards financial literacy isn't going to force employers to start paying employees better wages or higher salaries. Legislation and encouragement of the most struggling people to government services will.

You really need to understand the difference.

In turn, people need to start differentiation between wants and needs, but hey i'm talking to a group that spends a disgusting amount of time buying games that they don't even play and paying monthly services for the luxury of online multiplayer.

Rent seekers are being fucked all which ways on the coasts.

 

[Clockwork]

This isn't going to be the norm. The median retirement savings for American families is..... $5,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/07/how...ly-has-saved-for-retirement-at-every-age.html

But what is the excuse?

Listen, I am 37 years old. I did not finish college. In my late teens and early twenties I worked shit jobs (retail/call center). I have over 6 figures in my 401k and if the trend continues (according to Schwab) I should have over $1 million dollars in funds available when I retire.

I don't make a shit ton of money. I barely hit $50k/year at the moment.

Yes there are very real issues with wages in this country. Also debt (like student loans). But there is also a very real level of personal responsibility/accountability that has to be present (no, I am not talking bootstraps).

 

[Rockandrollclown]

What does living "paycheck-to-paycheck" mean?

If you're putting your savings in your 401(k) or your child's 529 -- that's money you can't touch -- and your checking/savings account doesn't have a significant enough buffer to cover an extra month's mortgage/rent/utilities/expenses/loan payments without your paycheck coming in on time, is that living paycheck-to-paycheck?

They're not. Not having savings is what paycheck to paycheck is. It means you are spending as much as you make and aren't saving anything.

 

[Violence Jack]

More jobs, but companies still don't pay enough to match the rising costs of housing and food. How can they expect people to save money or pay off bills when it's a struggle just to survive on sub-$50,000 jobs? Hell, even some of the $50,000 job postings I've seen had ridiculous requirements.

I worked for a Fortune 500 company where just about everyone who wasn't a manager or executive was making well under $50k, struggling to get by paycheck to paycheck. Then the CEO had the nerve to lay a bunch of those people off while giving himself and the other execs 6 and 7 figure bonuses. That's that kind of shit that needs to be stopped.

Also, something needs to be done about student loan debt. Work hard to obtain an education that companies want, yet can't make enough to pay it back.

 

[Clockwork]

They're not. Not having savings is what paycheck to paycheck is. It means you are spending as much as you make and aren't saving anything.

A pre-tax deduction towards your 401k is a smart practice especially if you have decent employer matching.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

$6.4 billion between ATM and overdraft fees-- and the average overdraft fee is for a transaction less than $24. Percentage-wise, you're beyond payday loan territory.

Let me try this again-- THIS WILL NOT SOLVE EVERYTHING ON ITS OWN. It's merely another piece of a much larger picture. Using your mountain and molehill bit-- it's one mountain in an entire range full of shit.

Uh huh. And how much is the student loan debt currently?

The Economist reported in June 2014 that U.S. student loan debt exceeded $1.2 trillion, with over 7 million debtors in default. In 2014, there was approximately $1.3 trillion of outstanding student loan debt in the U.S. that affected 44 million borrowers who had an average outstanding loan balance of $37,172.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt

Why focus on individuals on personal finance but not the government's inaction of the student loan debt, healthcare crisis, stagnant wages coupled with higher costs of living, etc., which are much bigger issues?

 

[J2d]

What percentage of Chineese, English, French, German and lets say Sweedish populations live paycheck to paycheck?

Yea I'd like to know about Sweden too, I don't earn much but I have no trouble saving up every month.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Some have already alluded to some of the solutions, but there is a lot of common sense shit that the government can do to boost the economy from the bottom up:

- Reform health care so that families and small businesses are not spending $600-$1,000 per month on for-profit private health insurance.

- The Federal Reserve goosed up the banks by over $4.5 TRILLION dollars, so why not take over the trillion in Student Loan Debt and subsidize all the millennials over-burdened by the repayment?

- Lift the minimum wage across the board and subsidize small businesses to help with the transition. FUCK the big corps... let the executives cut their pay from 300 times the median wage to something sustainable.

- Subsidize child care across the board. As a working parent of two, paying $2,000 for Day care every month is soul-crushing and it is money not being spent in the economy.

- Focus on free/better access to better education... not just education that churns out mindless worker bees.

There are a lot of good solutions out there, but the common denominator is corporate lobbyists and their paid-for friends in Congress stand in the way. Over the last 8 years, this has been a HUGE reason why the anti-establishment sentiment has grown to the current levels.

I like this article on 13 Ways to Strengthen America's Economy:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-17/13-ways-to-strengthen-america-s-economy

Reading this literally made me tear up knowing that this will never happen. And it's all so simple and common sense. Ugh.

 

[aeolist]

A pre-tax deduction towards your 401k is a smart practice especially if you have decent employer matching.

most places do not have 401k matching at all

 

[Ron Mexico]

This is like healing a shotgun wound with a Band-Aid.

More money going towards financial literacy isn't going to force employers to start paying employees better wages or higher salaries. Legislation and encouragement of the most struggling people to government services will.

You really need to understand the difference.

In turn, people need to start differentiation between wants and needs, but hey i'm talking to a group that spends a disgusting amount of time buying games that they don't even play and paying monthly services for the luxury of online multiplayer.

Rent seekers are being fucked all which ways on the coasts.

The thing is we're saying the same thing-- expanding even fundamental fiscal literacy isn't going to be some magical solution that's a cure-all for all of the economy's ills. It's nothing more than a piece. We can argue until we're blue in the face on how big of a piece that is (and you'll not once here me say it's even close to being a majority share) but it's something.

I've dedicated my career to working in the financial industry specifically targeting the under-served. These are realities I see on literally a daily basis. I can't change it all single-handedly. I know that. But I fail to see how understanding the fundamentals is ever a bad thing. It's a small piece of a much larger whole, but sometimes every little bit counts.

Why focus on individuals on personal finance but not the government's inaction of the student loan debt, healthcare crisis, stagnant wages coupled with higher costs of living, etc., which are much bigger issues?

Again, this isn't a multiple choice test. It's not one answer at the expense of all others. It's something small and actionable that has zero downside. It's not going to change the course of the economy on its own. Other problems exist without question. But I've never once thought of education as a bad thing.

 

[Somnid]

Housing is easily one of the worst problems right now. $15 minimum wage and budgeting skills means nothing when 1BDR apartments are climbing over $2000/m.

 

[LosDaddie]

Not surprising. Basic living expenses can be ridiculously expensive.

We were paying over $800/mo just for child care.....until my youngest just entered VPK this month. That's a sizable chunk of our budget.

But fortunately, we don't live paycheck to paycheck, especially after I earned my PE license last year. It's helped a ton, but I still need to put more money away for retirement.

The US really is a third world country isn't it

This won't be true no matter how many on GAF want it to be.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Housing is easily one of the worst problems right now. $15 minimum wage and budgeting skills means nothing when 1BDR apartments are climbing over $2000/m.

1BDR apartments are not climbing over $2000/m for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

most places do not have 401k matching at all

40 years old. Working at my first job that has 401K. Which I can't start to use until I've been here 1 year.

Willing to bet any job after this one will not have 401K, and if they do will be another year until I can use it again.

 

[Monkeyball]

Soon it will be 99%