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[ManaByte]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251769/site/newsweek/

A short bit from Newsweek this week that looks at the main points Michael Moore makes in his movie. Nice to see Moore hasn't changed much from Bowling for Columbine:

Saudi flights out of the United States. The movie claims that in the days after 9/11, when airspace was shut down, the White House approved special charter flights so that prominent Saudis—including members of the bin Laden family—could leave the country. Author Craig Unger appears, claiming that bin Laden family members were never interviewed by the FBI. Not true, according to a recent report from the 9/11 panel. The report confirms that six chartered airplanes flew 142 mostly Saudi nationals out of the country, including one carrying members of the bin Laden family. But the flights didn't begin until Sept. 14—after airspace reopened. Moreover, the report states the Saudi flights were screened by the FBI, and 22 of the 26 people on the bin Laden flight were interviewed. None had any links to terrorism.

Newsweek's review can also be read here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251768/site/newsweek/

June 28 issue - Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" isn't even out till late this week, and you probably already know what you think about it. Some of the advance reaction has been what you'd expect: Madonna recommending it to her audiences, a conservative group trying to pressure theaters not to show it. True, Fox TV posted a rave review on its Web site—"a tribute to patriotism"—while Tina Brown's column quoted a Kerry supporter in Hollywood comparing Moore to Goebbels. (That Goebbels? And they say Moore is over the top.) But mostly it has been the usual suspects taking the usual sides. For the right, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a scurrilous attack on the commander in chief in a time of war. For the left, on the other hand, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a scurrilous attack on the commander in chief in a time of war—and it was about time, though no prudent mainstream Democrat would want to come out and say so. For everybody else ... well, is there anybody else?

 

[Dead]

Im going to try and see it friday, have to find a theater thats playing it

 

[xsarien]

You know, timing not withstanding, I think the overall point is that bin Laden's family was spirited out of the country at the behest of the government. Yeah, they were "questioned," probably by the same folks who determined that Iraq had, without a shadow of a doubt, WMDs.

(Not saying that the rest of his family's guilty, just, you know, sayin'...)

 

[ManaByte]

You know, timing not withstanding, I think the overall point is that bin Laden's family was spirited out of the country at the behest of the government. Yeah, they were "questioned," probably by the same folks who determined that Iraq had, without a shadow of a doubt, WMDs.

(Not saying that the rest of his family's guilty, just, you know, sayin'...)

Moore hammers in the point that they were flown out of the country when all planes where grounded. The 9/11 panel showed that was not the case.

Maybe he should've waited until after the 9/11 panel was done before making his movie, as it discredits a lot of the points he was trying to make.

 

[Evolution VIII]

You know, timing not withstanding, I think the overall point is that bin Laden's family was spirited out of the country at the behest of the government. Yeah, they were "questioned," probably by the same folks who determined that Iraq had, without a shadow of a doubt, WMDs.

(Not saying that the rest of his family's guilty, just, you know, sayin'...)

Well, it wouldn't really be fair to hold the family over because of a bad egg. And it wouldn't have been very safe having the bin Laden family in America at the time.

 

[videogamer]

Even after losing interest in politics after 2001, I'm looking forward to this film. For some odd reason, I want to be fired up again.

I honestly don't care much for any of his points. I just "want" to be angry again.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Moore is a piece of shit, but I still want to see this. His movies are definitely entertaining, even if it's for all of the wrong reasons. Then again he is bashing Bush, so at least he is doing something right.

 

[xsarien]

Moore hammers in the point that they were flown out of the country when all planes where grounded. The 9/11 panel showed that was not the case.

Maybe he should've waited until after the 9/11 panel was done before making his movie, as it discredits a lot of the points he was trying to make.

Hanging an argument about when Moore said it happened is a rather weak position to take, because it's not the thrust of what he's saying.

 

[ManaByte]

Moore is a piece of shit, but I still want to see this. His movies are definitely entertaining, even if it's for all of the wrong reasons.

Exactly.

I'll be seeing it on Sunday. It'll definitely be an entertaining experience as a San Diego crowd is not going to give the movie the best reaction especially since it'll probably be playing at a theater almost across the street from MCAS Miramar

 

[ManaByte]

Hanging an argument about when Moore said it happened is a rather weak position to take, because it's not the thrust of what he's saying.

But he bases his argument on the claim that they were flown out when all planes were grounded...

 

[Bat]

The point is not that Bin Laden's family were terrorist suspects, but rather the extent to which the Bush Administration (and family) would go just to appease its oil interests, even during America's most perilous hours.

 

[dskillzhtown]

I feel like Moore is a left-wing fanatic. I don't like fanatics on either side of politics. Seems like they ignore facts just to make a point. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. I am sure some things in this movie are true, but they will be mixed in with some false statements. Probably will be an interesting view, mainly for the footage that will be shown. Seems like from the TV commercials, some things are in here that we have never seen.

 

[xsarien]

But he bases his argument on the claim that they were flown out when all planes were grounded...

He's saying that they were flown out by the government, when is somewhat immaterial. Interesting, but it doesn't invalidate the position that bin Ladens in the U.S. got handled with kid gloves when they should've been asked about everything they could possibly ever know about Osama.

Perhaps you should stop and think that Moore was basing his movie on the "best possible information available at the time," that particular nugget seems to be the flavor of the year in the White House. I don't see why that pendulum can't swing both ways.

 

[Evolution VIII]

The point is not that Bin Laden's family were terrorist suspects, but rather the extent to which the Bush Administration (and family) would go just to appease its oil interests, even during America's most perilous hours.

I would think that any president would do the same thing.

 

[sc0la]

Meh I will wait to see the film. The trailer mixes audio tracks of moore and the guy he is interviewing, I don't know if that is how it appears in the film etc.

After I see it I will be able to look at the criticisms and merits presented and evaluate it for myself better.

 

[Mike Works]

For the right, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a scurrilous attack on the commander in chief in a time of war. For the left, on the other hand, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a scurrilous attack on the commander in chief in a time of war—and it was about time, though no prudent mainstream Democrat would want to come out and say so. For everybody else ... well, is there anybody else?

NOPE, America is the only country in the world and all Americans are either far right or far left, there is absolutely nobody else who will ever see this movie or exist or know the wonders of reading such an intelligent and insiteful review such as this one.

 

[Ripclawe]

Forget Newsweek or anyone else,

All you need is HITCHENS!!! Hater of Mother Theresa and Reagan!

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/fr/ifr

 

[explodet]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/fr/ifr

Well, he doesn't mention Goebbels, but he goes one less and namedrops Riefenstahl. Heh.

 

[Ripclawe]

Well, he doesn't mention Goebbels, but he goes one less and namedrops Riefenstahl. Heh.

when you need drunken hateful intellectual bashing, HITCHENS!!!!

The article he will write when the Pope passes will make his Theresa and Reagan articles combined pale in comparison.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Why all the moore hate? At least he sticks up for the little guys, more than you say for his republican counterparts.

 

[StoOgE]

Why is everyone jumping down Moore's throat? The guy he interviewed said this according to the article, and as soon as a few weeks ago people were saying that most of the stuff in this film was allready available to the public.

 

[Willco]

MICHAEL MOORE IS FAT LOL AM I RITE?

 

[mrkapawutzis]

I would think that any president would do the same thing.

Unfortunately you're probably right. Politics at that level are beyond the comprehension of the average joe.

 

[Bat]

Not really. No other president (well, maybe Bush's father) has any sort of the close, personal ties to these oil billionares like Bush does. This isn't a case of a goverment helping out an oil producing country, but rather the president putting his personal relationships with foreign oil tycoons above all else. And you also need to ask, why did the administration want the Bin Laden's out of the country so quickly? Was it to avoid controversey when the press found out they were residing here? Did they want to avoid the unavoidable investigation of the Bin Laden's (even though they were innocent the public would demand it)? Or was it just to help a bunch of close, foriegn, friends?

 

[fart]

THAT DAMNED LIBERAL MEDIA!!!

 

[Evolution VIII]

Not really. No other president (well, maybe Bush's father) has any sort of the close, personal ties to these oil billionares like Bush does. This isn't a case of a goverment helping out an oil producing country, but rather the president putting his personal relationships with foreign oil tycoons above all else. And you also need to ask, why did the administration want the Bin Laden's out of the country so quickly? Was it to avoid controversey when the press found out they were residing here? Did they want to avoid the unavoidable investigation of the Bin Laden's (even though they were innocent the public would demand it)? Or was it just to help a bunch of close, foriegn, friends?

This, of course, has been proven to be false. Any president has an incentive to protect the oil interests of America, but not because of mythical ties to the Saudi family. Also, it has already been reported during the 9/11 commission that Richard Clarke had authorized the removal of the bin Laden family himself without any authorization from Bush. And what is wrong with the bin Laden family staying here in the States? Should they be persecuted for the wrongs that Osama had done? I can understand why the bin Laden family was rushed out of the country, because it was for their safety.

And have ever wondered why anyone who leaves office is instantly wealthy, despite making a pittance while in office? That's right, all politicians have ties to rich individuals. I wonder why that is.

 

[Mason]

I'm not going to lie, Moore makes movies that are entertaining to watch. You just can't take them as completely factual documentaries, because like everyone else, he puts his own spin on things.

That said, he is also an annoying jackass who makes all liberals looks stupid and I wish he'd learn when to shut his mouth.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm not going to lie, Moore makes movies that are entertaining to watch. You just can't take them as completely factual documentaries, because like everyone else, he puts his own spin on things.

That said, he is also an annoying jackass who makes all liberals looks stupid and I wish he'd learn when to shut his mouth.

He's technically not even a liberal as he's pointed out (he didn't vote for Clintons 2nd term and he didn't vote for Gore). He just hates Bush.

 

[Evolution VIII]

He's technically not even a liberal as he's pointed out (he didn't vote for Clintons 2nd term and he didn't vote for Gore). He just hates Bush.

Not voting for two Democrats doesn't mean he's a centrist. Just by looking at the themes in his prior two movies and this one, Michael Moore is extremely liberal.

 

[Ripclawe]

Not voting for two Democrats doesn't mean he's a centrist. Just by looking at the themes in his prior two movies and this one, Michael Moore is extremely liberal.

judging from his opposition to the kosovo bombing and how be bitched about Clinton calling him extremely liberal is being generous. But his early support for wesley clark is goofy.

 

[Guileless]

Dude, Moore didn't vote for Clinton or Gore because they weren't liberal enough for him.

Dayum, that Hitchens piece is brutual.

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability.

Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.

 

[Eric-GCA]

Yeah, Hitchens really tore Moore a new one in his article, I liked the way he summed up Moore's "arguments" in the movie and pretty much ripped them up.

 

[JackFrost2012]

A short bit from Newsweek this week that looks at the main points Michael Moore makes in his movie. Nice to see Moore hasn't changed much from Bowling for Columbine.

Saudi flights out of the United States. The movie claims that in the days after 9/11, when airspace was shut down, the White House approved special charter flights so that prominent Saudis—including members of the bin Laden family—could leave the country. Author Craig Unger appears, claiming that bin Laden family members were never interviewed by the FBI. Not true, according to a recent report from the 9/11 panel. The report confirms that six chartered airplanes flew 142 mostly Saudi nationals out of the country, including one carrying members of the bin Laden family. But the flights didn't begin until Sept. 14—after airspace reopened. Moreover, the report states the Saudi flights were screened by the FBI, and 22 of the 26 people on the bin Laden flight were interviewed. None had any links to terrorism.

God have mercy I am NOT a Moore apologist, but Newsweek is wrong and Moore is right. In this case. The TIA only owned up to it about two weeks ago, so it's not surprising it's not so well known yet.

 

[Guileless]

Not to go off topic, but how could someone who is a liberal/pacifist object to the Kosovo operation? Its sole purpose was to get the unltranationalist Serbs to the peace table so they would end the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. And there's not even a plausible ulterior corporate motive for doing it.

 

[Goreomedy]

Yeah, Hitchens really tore Moore a new one in his article, I liked the way he summed up Moore's "arguments" in the movie and pretty much ripped them up.

A bullet-point list of possibly outdated information which Hitchens refutes with thin claims of the opposite. I need to see evidence before I believe either of these controversy-leeching egomanics.

One thing tickles me, though. Conservatives quick to embrace this review, were crucifying Hutchins for calling Passion of the Christ "homoerotic" just months ago.

 

[Ripclawe]

This is the Moore piece on the Kosovo bombings

http://www.commondreams.org/kosovo/views/mmoore.htm

the fact he says bombings in World War II did nothing is insane.

 

[Ripclawe]

A bullet-point list of possibly outdated information which Hitchens refutes with thin claims of the opposite. I need to see evidence before I believe either of these controversy-leeching egomanics.

One thing tickles me, though. Conservatives quick to embrace this review, were crucifying Hutchins for calling Passion of the Christ "homoerotic" just months ago.

Hitchens rips everyone, Thats why he is loved and hated by all!

RESPECT THE HITCH!

 

[Strike East]

Moore is a piece of shit, but I still want to see this. His movies are definitely entertaining, even if it's for all of the wrong reasons. Then again he is bashing Bush, so at least he is doing something right.

I agree with this news, and i will also see the movie, even tho i might not agree with Moore's fanatacism

 

[MetatronM]

He's technically not even a liberal as he's pointed out (he didn't vote for Clintons 2nd term and he didn't vote for Gore). He just hates Bush.

You're right. He's not a liberal. He's an idiot.

There IS a difference.

 

[Guzim]

MICHAEL MOORE IS FAT LOL AM I RITE?

YOU GO GIRL!

 

[Ripclawe]

WTF? JACK SHAFER rips into Moore for his libel suit threat.... What is going on at Slate this week.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2102725/

 

[Kon Tiki]

But he bases his argument on the claim that they were flown out when all planes were grounded...

He made the movie based on the information he had at the time, just like Bush invaded Iraq on the information he had at the time. Just in this case, noone was harmed.

 

[Particle Physicist]

He made the movie based on the information he had at the time, just like Bush invaded Iraq on the information he had at the time. Just in this case, noone was harmed.

maybe he should have gotten several sources.. instead of relying on one.

 

[xsarien]

Just so everyone's got their facts straight in this thread:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/f911facts/index.php

WHAT THE FILM SAYS:

Sen. Byron Dorgan: We had some airplanes authorized at the highest levels of our government to fly to pick up Osama Bin Laden's family members and others from Saudi Arabia and transport them out of this country.

Narration: It turns out that the White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the Bin ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.



Additionally, in an interview with author Craig Unger, the film makes reference to the fact that these individuals were briefly interviewed before they were allowed to leave.

EVERYONE (yes, including myself for not even bothering to check to see if Moore addressed this issue sooner) pwned.

He includes a link to the 9/11 comm report on the issue as well, in case any of you are still wondering if he's just manipulating the facts.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

And you also need to ask, why did the administration want the Bin Laden's out of the country so quickly? Was it to avoid controversey when the press found out they were residing here? Did they want to avoid the unavoidable investigation of the Bin Laden's (even though they were innocent the public would demand it)? Or was it just to help a bunch of close, foriegn, friends?

You don't need to ask that, since it seems pretty obvious that the bin Ladens wouldn't want to hang around in the U.S. after what happened on September 11. There's no big mystery behind it.

 

[Ripclawe]

Just so everyone's got their facts straight in this thread:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/f911facts/index.php



EVERYONE (yes, including myself for not even bothering to check to see if Moore addressed this issue sooner) pwned.

He includes a link to the 9/11 comm report on the issue as well, in case any of you are still wondering if he's just manipulating the facts.

This is classic Moore, Snopes already answered this question he has on his website, but to give the appearance of some evil Bush conspiracy to help out his friends he doesn't put in the logic answer based on his little factoid by saying the White house approved leaving out the details, just enough to get by with the conclusion he wanted to make in the first place.

2. WHO APPROVED THESE FLIGHTS AND WHY

We really do not know why it was so necessary for the White House to allow the quick exodus of these Saudi and bin Ladens out of the country, and "the White House still refuses to document fully how the flights were arranged," according to a June 20, 2004, article by Phil Shenon in the New York Times.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

Why did bin Laden family members want to leave the U.S.?

Why bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) wanted to leave the U.S. in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks should be obvious: most of the hijackers who perpetrated the attacks were Saudis, as was the mastermind of the plot, Osama bin Laden. Many Saudis temporarily residing in the U.S. (not just bin Laden family members) feared they might become victims of anti-Arab, anti-Saudi, and anti-bin Laden reprisals at the hands of angry Americans:
Many [young members of the bin Laden clan] were terrified, fearing they could be "lynched," after hearing news reports of sporadic violence against Muslims and Arab-Americans.3

Tyler, Patrick E. "Fearing Harm, Bin Laden Kin Fled from U.S."
The New York Times. 30 September 2001 (p. A1).