Ngage 2 specifications ??
- Thread starter xexex
- Start date
Cold Shadow
Member
xexex said:
And is this good or bad? And how does this compare to DS/PSP?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I was wondering how credible is the source.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
who cares? Does the first one even have any decent games? They sure are releasing the second hardware really fast.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Yes it has. Nice trolling though.Doom_Bringer said:
FeedMeAStrayCat
Member
Yeah, there are some decent games for it. But the system is bombing horribly (have you seen the software numbers in the latest NPD threads?? Eek.. ), and I can't believe Nokia is persistent enough to keep at this. I guess I admire their dedication.. but it seems to be a pretty stupid idea overall.. 
xexex said:what is that chip about? i will google for it later. hit me with the quick facts
Well, all I really know is that it's Texas Instrument's highest end mobile platform.
Info about PowerVR MBX can be found here:
http://www.powervr.com/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=1
Demos, which are run on a 54Mhz chip, can be found here:
http://www.powervr.com/Downloads/Demos/index.asp
FeedMeAStrayCat
Member
Society said:
One could also be wrong.
Or one could also say that the N-Gage has been out quite a bit longer than the NDS/PSP.
This is WAY more powerful than Nintendo DS, but less powerful than PSP in most areas
look at the fillrate though: 360Mpixels, 2xOverdraw = 720Mpixels, 3xOverdraw = 1.08Gpixels
the actual fillrate of 360Mpixels is lower than that of PSP: 664Mpixels. but with 2x overdraw the PowerVR MBX in Ngage 2 is higher.
____
the Dreamcast's PowerVR2DC fillrate, even with overdraw, could never catch PS2
100Mpixels actual fillrate vs 1200Mpixels with texture, bilinear filtering
200Mpixels 2x overdraw vs 1200Mpixels
300Mpixels 3x overdraw vs 1200 Mpixels
50Mpixels actual fillrate with 2 textures vs 600Mpixels with 2 textures
and so on.
___
but Ngage can catch PSP in fillrate.
however, probably not in polygon performance.
it's probably like PSP: 5 million pps vs Ngage 2: 2.5 million pps
PSP's peak polygon performance is 33 or 35 million, I wonder what Ngage2's is.
overall, Ngage 2 seems to be a PSP-class platform in terms of graphics, even with less power in areas. then again, cant really judge the two machines yet.
come on Nintendo, lets see your Ngage 2 and PSP killerboy
look at the fillrate though: 360Mpixels, 2xOverdraw = 720Mpixels, 3xOverdraw = 1.08Gpixels
the actual fillrate of 360Mpixels is lower than that of PSP: 664Mpixels. but with 2x overdraw the PowerVR MBX in Ngage 2 is higher.
____
the Dreamcast's PowerVR2DC fillrate, even with overdraw, could never catch PS2
100Mpixels actual fillrate vs 1200Mpixels with texture, bilinear filtering
200Mpixels 2x overdraw vs 1200Mpixels
300Mpixels 3x overdraw vs 1200 Mpixels
50Mpixels actual fillrate with 2 textures vs 600Mpixels with 2 textures
and so on.
___
but Ngage can catch PSP in fillrate.
however, probably not in polygon performance.
it's probably like PSP: 5 million pps vs Ngage 2: 2.5 million pps
PSP's peak polygon performance is 33 or 35 million, I wonder what Ngage2's is.
overall, Ngage 2 seems to be a PSP-class platform in terms of graphics, even with less power in areas. then again, cant really judge the two machines yet.
come on Nintendo, lets see your Ngage 2 and PSP killerboy
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Funky Papa said:
Asking a question = trolling?
What were you doing in that PSP thread the other day? Now that was trolling.
the OMAP2420 - Ngage2's System-on-Chip (?)
he OMAP2420 processor is a single-chip applications processor that supports all cellular standards, and complements any modem or chipset and any air interface. It is intended for high-volume wireless handset manufacturers and is not available through distributors.
The OMAP2420 is a superset of the OMAP2410 with added capabilities for further enhancing the "All-in-One Entertainment" capabilities that the OMAP 2 architecture brings to smartphones and other portable devices.
The OMAP2420 includes the benefits of the OMAP 2 architectures parallel processing, giving users the ability to instantly run applications and operate multiple functions simultaneously without quality of service compromises. The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55xDSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals.
Get Started Now: Download the following documents for more information:
* OMAP2420 Product Bulletin (TI_omap2420.pdf, 210 KB)
2005 Download
* OMAP2420 Software Development Platform (TI_sdp_omap2420.pdf, 227 KB)
2005 Download
Multimedia enhancements made in the OMAP2420 include an added imaging and video accelerator for higher-resolution still capture applications, multi-megapixel cameras and full-motion video encode and decode with VGA resolution of 30 frames per second. An added TV video output supports connections to television displays for displaying images and video captured from the handset. 5-Mb internal SRAM also boost streaming media performance.
Access to the OMAP Developer Network also provides an extensive range of programs and media components that manufacturers can use for differentiating and delivering products to market fast.
Key Features:
* Leverages same features of OMAP2410 including dedicated 2D/3D graphics accelerator at 2 million polygons per second
* Added imaging and video accelerator enables high-resolution still image capture, larger screen sizes and higher video frame rates
* Supports high-end features including 4+ megapixel cameras, VGA-quality video, high-end interactive gaming functionality and analog/digital TV video output
* 5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance
* Software compatibility with previous OMAP processors
* Parallel processing ensures no interruptions or degradation of service with simultaneously running applications
* Optimized power management companion chip, TWL92230
* 12 mm x 12 mm, 325-ball MicroStar BGA, 0.5-mm pitch
he OMAP2420 processor is a single-chip applications processor that supports all cellular standards, and complements any modem or chipset and any air interface. It is intended for high-volume wireless handset manufacturers and is not available through distributors.
The OMAP2420 is a superset of the OMAP2410 with added capabilities for further enhancing the "All-in-One Entertainment" capabilities that the OMAP 2 architecture brings to smartphones and other portable devices.
The OMAP2420 includes the benefits of the OMAP 2 architectures parallel processing, giving users the ability to instantly run applications and operate multiple functions simultaneously without quality of service compromises. The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55xDSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals.
Get Started Now: Download the following documents for more information:
* OMAP2420 Product Bulletin (TI_omap2420.pdf, 210 KB)
2005 Download
* OMAP2420 Software Development Platform (TI_sdp_omap2420.pdf, 227 KB)
2005 Download
Multimedia enhancements made in the OMAP2420 include an added imaging and video accelerator for higher-resolution still capture applications, multi-megapixel cameras and full-motion video encode and decode with VGA resolution of 30 frames per second. An added TV video output supports connections to television displays for displaying images and video captured from the handset. 5-Mb internal SRAM also boost streaming media performance.
Access to the OMAP Developer Network also provides an extensive range of programs and media components that manufacturers can use for differentiating and delivering products to market fast.
Key Features:
* Leverages same features of OMAP2410 including dedicated 2D/3D graphics accelerator at 2 million polygons per second
* Added imaging and video accelerator enables high-resolution still image capture, larger screen sizes and higher video frame rates
* Supports high-end features including 4+ megapixel cameras, VGA-quality video, high-end interactive gaming functionality and analog/digital TV video output
* 5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance
* Software compatibility with previous OMAP processors
* Parallel processing ensures no interruptions or degradation of service with simultaneously running applications
* Optimized power management companion chip, TWL92230
* 12 mm x 12 mm, 325-ball MicroStar BGA, 0.5-mm pitch
FeedMeAStrayCat
Member
Society said:Only Pathway to Glory was out before NDS game out, it came out 2 months before NDS. The rest are current games.
Right. Which means that it usually takes a system a while to accumulate good games.
It appears that it's taken the N-Gage a while, and while the DS has some good games, it will also be a little while until the truly awesome come out.
Ford Prefect
GAAAAAAAAY
Nokia might as well market a Virtual Boy 2.
I am not saying NDS will never have a good game. I was just stating that at this time, N-gage has some more 'attractive' games.Biglesworth23 said:Right. Which means that it usually takes a system a while to accumulate good games.
It appears that it's taken the N-Gage a while, and while the DS has some good games, it will also be a little while until the truly awesome come out.
FeedMeAStrayCat
Member
Society said:I am not saying NDS will never have a good game. I was just stating that at this time, N-gage has some more 'attractive' games.
Ah. I see.
The only game I'd consider purchasing for a N-Gage if I had it would be the Pathway to Glory one. Worms I would as well, but that will be coming to the DS later and hopefully kick some ass.. Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I've been pimping PSP's wonders since I got my hands on one. Excuse me if I think that RR is not as awesome as you believe. And that who cares? sounded quite trollish IMO.Doom_Bringer said:
Chittagong
Gold Member
So how reliable is that site?
According to Nokia...Society said:Catan is legend, it does not need to be 'out'.
Catan~ May 2005
ONE~ August 2005
Worms World Party~ April 2005
...N-Gage doesn't actually have any of those games "at this time".
radioheadrule83
Banned
These guys must not be under estimated. I've got a feeling they'll have learned something... and that they'll keep at this til they succeed.
radioheadrule83 said:
Let's face it, who here (assuming Nokia does everything right this time) would turn down a phone that also happens to outoperform the NDS? If Nokia manages to make a compelling machine that manages to be small yet gamer friendly, I wouldn't be surprised to see it take off.
Project Midway
Member
:lolxexex said:
is this a joke thread?
If I already had a phone and a PSP (and I plan on that being my eventual situation), or even a phone and a DS, I'd turn it down unless they had some really alluring games. I don't need another device to carry around.3rdman said:
Also, I have never in the history of playing games on cell phones been even remotely comfortable with button placement and controls, and that includes the NGage. Hopefully they can at least get that right next time around.
COCKLES said:
I agree, it should be something that crosses phones, not just one phone. Though I guess it's expensive to do, so perhaps they can't include it in every phone.
Nokia's a company who, first time around, were just a little clueless about how to present a videogames machine to the market. But I agree that they'll keep learning and keep trying. They're a big company with a lot of resources, and shouldn't be underestimated.
I think this is going to be kickass.
http://www.pdatrends.com/showthread.php?t=3649
this is just with MBX running at ~50mhz, the one in the n-gage 2 is supposed to be at 200mhz, and on a 90nm process. It should definately have the performance to beat the PSP.
http://www.pdatrends.com/showthread.php?t=3649
this is just with MBX running at ~50mhz, the one in the n-gage 2 is supposed to be at 200mhz, and on a 90nm process. It should definately have the performance to beat the PSP.
Project Midway
Member
MBX + OMAP2420 isnt more powerful than PSP. But its probably closer to PSP than to DS in raw performance.
.
Cold Shadow:
Full OMAP compatibility means that Nokia could make this compatible with N-Gage1 games as well as games for other systems based on any derivative of this technology.
It's a processing system that fits on a single chip and has been around for about a year (the graphics core has been around even longer), so it's not going to be too expensive to manufacture.
Its precision when rendering will reduce the amount of color dithering and banding sometimes seen in games. This won't make a huge difference, but it will make an appreciably noticeable one at times.
The graphics will have extra smoothness/definition to them because the system can make supersampling FSAA standard in all games. The difference will again be nice but not life changing.
It supports the necessary math for lighting effects where some textures can look bumpy or highly 3D detailed:
The abrupt changes in blurriness of textures going out into the distance will occasionally be eliminated in games that use the anisotropic texture filtering.
The system's programmability makes it flexible for complex animation and graphical looks:
It supports curved surfaces which can help mobile platforms store complex objects without using a lot of memory, and it can render them without glitches forming when changing the scene or manipulating them:
Polygon counts will be noticeably lower than Dreamcast, but way above the Saturn/PS/N64 generation:
Ultimately, the graphics will look as bad or as good as the level of development support the machine gets. As it is, it won't compare closely to the PSP because it won't get as much premier support.
gofreak:
It's stronger than the Lite implementations of MBX, but it's not as robust as some of the Renesas chips which actually compare well against this generation's home consoles.
neptunes:
They share some of the same kind of technology, but they're not exactly the same in performance.
xexex:
The average overdraw for Quake III: Arena was a little over 3. A custom Dreamcast game tended to have similar and even somewhat higher overdraw than that.
Shompola:
Feature wise, this platform is beyond both the PowerVR Series 2 Dreamcast and the Series 2 Naomi2, as MBX was actually based from the next generation after those. It does come with a geometry engine like Naomi2, though, but with more flexibility for skinning, skeletal animation, etc and not nearly as much T&L speed as Naomi2's 10M-tri/sec & 6 full lights.
COCKLES:
With OMAP2 available to multiple manufacturers and new price/battery sensitive OMAP2 scaled chips on the way, it might be possible for the game platform to span several manufacturers' devices.
so the Ngage2 PowerVR MBX is inbetween the MBX Lite variant and the MBX Renesas variant?
interesting. iirc, the Renesas variant could almost handle NAOMI 2 ports
(better in some areas, worse in others), while Ngage2 will be somewhat below that but still somewhat stronger than Dreamcast... is that about right Lazy8s ?
interesting. iirc, the Renesas variant could almost handle NAOMI 2 ports
(better in some areas, worse in others), while Ngage2 will be somewhat below that but still somewhat stronger than Dreamcast... is that about right Lazy8s ?
fse
Member
Nokia might make a psp killer with some nice features. Don't underestimate them. Sure they might not have PSP quality graphics, but it might be near that. They have tons of money. I wonder if its possible that they decide to make the ngage 2 with a camera, flip open keyboard, and a wide screen. 
Renesas's SH3707 is possibly three times stronger than this OMAP2420.
The 2420 is somewhat comparable to Dreamcast: the polygon counts will be lower, but it should be flexible to do a lot more special effects in animation, textures, and post-processing.
The biggest limitation will be development support. Games will look DS level without good support or PSP level with it.
The 2420 is somewhat comparable to Dreamcast: the polygon counts will be lower, but it should be flexible to do a lot more special effects in animation, textures, and post-processing.
The biggest limitation will be development support. Games will look DS level without good support or PSP level with it.
soundwave05
Member
As long as the screen ratio stays the same, I don't think NGage will ever really take off.
A "vertical" screen just doesn't work well for most video games. That's the biggest issue I see.
A "vertical" screen just doesn't work well for most video games. That's the biggest issue I see.
Biglesworth23 said:Ah. I see.
He confused Worms with Snakes, which is developed by Nokia. It got 8.6 at gamespot. N-Gage 2 sure has a lot of potential, esp. if Nokia can get some developer support. They have more than $15 billion in cash.
Lazy8s said:
ok I am confused. you are comparing Renesas CPU to Ngage2 CPU right? I was wondering about the GPUs, the specific PowerVR MBX core embedded into each, how those compare.
btw, i kinda disagree that Ngage2 games will look DS-level without good developer support. since Ngage2 chipset is alot more powerful than DS, even the worst Ngage2 games should surpass DS games. ~2.5 million polygons with texture mapping & effects displayed vs 120,000 on DS. nevermind DS' 4 million vertex T&L rate, i am sure Ngage2 T&L rate is much higher than 2.5 or 4 million. Ngage2 seems to be an order of magnitude more powerful in 3D than DS. the DS does not even have N64-level rendering features. I could be wrong, but I think Im right about this. we'll see. and I know the point of DS is not graphics. I am also fairly certain that the next GameBoy will beat Ngage2 and PSP ( and beat Ngage2 conciderably, PSP slightly)