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NHL 18 EASHL (Xbox One) NeoGAF Camel Toews
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
😏
I'm stuck in a hotel this week, so I can't say how good - shitty my connection will be
I can't wait
Glad we got people on and playing again tonight but holy shit those games were a mess. We had a lot of good looks that never happened and wasted a lot of potential plays.
Few things:
-Wingers need to play your side. Don't be all over the ice all the time. Yes there are times you'll end up on the other side because of the flow of the puck but you shouldn't be spending half the game on the other wing. We're constantly bunched up which leaves a ton of open ice for the other team and leaves no options for us to move the puck.
Same thing goes for the defensive zone. We don't need all 5 players down below the dots. We're leaving way too much open ice out by the blue line because there's nobody covering the points.
-We have to start looking for open people to pass to. We didn't get many shots tonight and a lot of the ones we did get were just bad because there were way better options. A few times we had someone open on the opposite side of the net for a tap in but the pass never happened. The goalie isn't going to get across for those. If there's a lane that puck needs to get across to an open player. First option always has to be passing across if it's open.
- We blew a lot of rushes tonight. Quite a few times we didn't even get shots off.
First, the players going down the ice need to spread out. If we can get a pass across it doesn't do any good if the pass recipient is 2 feet from the other player. Get wide so the goalie has to move.
Second, if there's a defensemen in between, the pass probably isn't getting through. Once we hit the face-off dots, both players need to slam on the brakes so the dman slides past and opens a lane. That pass across has been killing us and it's about time we start doing it to other teams.
-Also, when we're in the offensive zone, we need to try and find open ice. We turn the puck over a ton because we have no options to move the puck. If we can get someone behind the net, its usually open. Dmen on the puck side need to make sure they're near the boards in case we need to drop the puck back.
I'll post some diagrams tomorrow in case I'm not explaining it well enough and I have nothing better to do at work tomorrow. This really is simple stuff that we're just not doing. It won't take much to fix either.
I'll be on tomorrow after the Blackhawks/Habs game.
Few things:
-Wingers need to play your side. Don't be all over the ice all the time. Yes there are times you'll end up on the other side because of the flow of the puck but you shouldn't be spending half the game on the other wing. We're constantly bunched up which leaves a ton of open ice for the other team and leaves no options for us to move the puck.
Same thing goes for the defensive zone. We don't need all 5 players down below the dots. We're leaving way too much open ice out by the blue line because there's nobody covering the points.
-We have to start looking for open people to pass to. We didn't get many shots tonight and a lot of the ones we did get were just bad because there were way better options. A few times we had someone open on the opposite side of the net for a tap in but the pass never happened. The goalie isn't going to get across for those. If there's a lane that puck needs to get across to an open player. First option always has to be passing across if it's open.
- We blew a lot of rushes tonight. Quite a few times we didn't even get shots off.
First, the players going down the ice need to spread out. If we can get a pass across it doesn't do any good if the pass recipient is 2 feet from the other player. Get wide so the goalie has to move.
Second, if there's a defensemen in between, the pass probably isn't getting through. Once we hit the face-off dots, both players need to slam on the brakes so the dman slides past and opens a lane. That pass across has been killing us and it's about time we start doing it to other teams.
-Also, when we're in the offensive zone, we need to try and find open ice. We turn the puck over a ton because we have no options to move the puck. If we can get someone behind the net, its usually open. Dmen on the puck side need to make sure they're near the boards in case we need to drop the puck back.
I'll post some diagrams tomorrow in case I'm not explaining it well enough and I have nothing better to do at work tomorrow. This really is simple stuff that we're just not doing. It won't take much to fix either.
I'll be on tomorrow after the Blackhawks/Habs game.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Back from tour, should be on more often now. I can do those winger requests when not being concussed into oblivion from huge hits.
So never?
shawnoftheshred
Member
In my defense, I usually get the pass off before being concussed into oblivion anyway...
I can be coach too. Joel Marville. I like yelling.
Working on them right now actually. The finest that mspaint has to offer. 😸
I feel that D is sucking for me lately. If feels as if I don't jump into the play, then I see no offensive time at all. One thing we constantly do is try for that pass through the middle over and over again. We need to just shoot the shit. If the carrying forward can hit the trailing D with the a pass it would open up so much, but rarely do I ever get a pass back there unless people see me skating up to the circle.
On D, not much to say really. If you're the trailing forward then you need to cover the point AND THE TOP MIDDLE. How many times have we gotten burned because some dude goes from left to right or right to left across the middle and just shoots it in. I'd be better equipped to handle those if I used a pure defenseman that has no passing or offensive, but really, that's no fun.
I think I'm just getting burned out playing fucking D all the time.
On D, not much to say really. If you're the trailing forward then you need to cover the point AND THE TOP MIDDLE. How many times have we gotten burned because some dude goes from left to right or right to left across the middle and just shoots it in. I'd be better equipped to handle those if I used a pure defenseman that has no passing or offensive, but really, that's no fun.
I think I'm just getting burned out playing fucking D all the time.
hurrrrrrrrry
Not sure what's more funny. Us rage quitting or your positioning.
Another night of absolute garbage play.
I really feel I shouldn't have to explain some of this stuff but it's basic hockey that isn't happening and it's absolutely killing us.
First:
Positioning on defense is absolute crap. There is almost no reason for the wingers to be below the face-off dots and even fewer reasons to be below the goal line.
Here is roughly where people need to be. Stay in your area. There's absolutely no reason to have 4 of our players chasing the puck around behind the net. We're getting killed because there's open ice everywhere and teams are doing whatever the fuck they want on offense.
Second:
Positioning everywhere else is just as bad. Wingers need to stay on your sides. We don't need 2 RW or 2 LW. Yes there are times where the puck flow is going to have us move but being all over the ice all the time needs to stop. Pay attention to where you are.
When we're in the offensive zone, there's no reason we should be chasing the puck around. If somebody gets pinned, then yeah, go help. Otherwise, GET OPEN.
If we have the puck along the sides, one of the other forwards needs to move behind the net (red or green, doesn't matter) as an outlet pass and the other forward needs to be on the OPPOSITE side of the ice GETTING OPEN for a pass across. Those goals are easy but nobody is ever where they need to be. There is no reason to be standing directly in front of the net unless the puck is out at the point. All you're doing is cutting off passing options across the ice. Get out of the way and get open.
Whichever D is behind the puck carrier needs to stick to the wall for an outlet as well. Opposite D should creep towards the center of the ice, hanging back a bit to make sure we're covering.
Rushes:
When we're going up the ice, there should not be as many problems as we have. People going way offsides, being in the wrong place, making terrible passes, etc.
If we get a 2 on 1 (which is hard to do when 4 of our players are chasing the puck around), we have options.
If the dman is between our skaters, don't try to force a pass through them. Once we hit the dots, we need to stop and get a pass across after the dman slides past and opens a lane. If that doesn't work, then we can improvise.
When we have a 3 person rush, we're always a mess. We're crowded together, not going where we need to go, and getting in each other's way.
First off, we need to spread out when we go up the ice. Get away from the other players so we can spread the defense out. Whoever in the middle should not be charging straight to the net. All you're doing is killing options and getting in the way. Player in the middle needs to pull up in the slot and hang back. Skater on the opposite side from the puck needs to stay wide so if the pass comes across, then the goalie has to move. Don't go to the front of the net. NOBODY needs to be there. If the pass across isn't there, the player hanging back in the slot is the 2nd option. Doesn't matter if its a wing or the center there. Again, this is being aware of where you are. If you're in the middle, you hang back. If the first option isn't there, the 2nd should be because it means the defense chased the puck low. If neither option is there, we can kick it back to D or circle around until we can get reset.
A lot of the bad habits feel like people trying to play this like it's offline be a pro. You don't need to be next to the puck all game and you don't need to be everywhere all the time. There are other people on this club. If you aren't doing your job, you're making their job that much harder.
If you don't have the puck, get open. If the other team has it, make sure you're covering where you should be.
Again, this is all simple, basic stuff. It's not hard.
There was a lot more that was going to go in this post but it's late and I don't have the energy for it.
If anyone else wants to add anything, feel free.
I really feel I shouldn't have to explain some of this stuff but it's basic hockey that isn't happening and it's absolutely killing us.
First:
Positioning on defense is absolute crap. There is almost no reason for the wingers to be below the face-off dots and even fewer reasons to be below the goal line.
Here is roughly where people need to be. Stay in your area. There's absolutely no reason to have 4 of our players chasing the puck around behind the net. We're getting killed because there's open ice everywhere and teams are doing whatever the fuck they want on offense.
Second:
Positioning everywhere else is just as bad. Wingers need to stay on your sides. We don't need 2 RW or 2 LW. Yes there are times where the puck flow is going to have us move but being all over the ice all the time needs to stop. Pay attention to where you are.
When we're in the offensive zone, there's no reason we should be chasing the puck around. If somebody gets pinned, then yeah, go help. Otherwise, GET OPEN.
If we have the puck along the sides, one of the other forwards needs to move behind the net (red or green, doesn't matter) as an outlet pass and the other forward needs to be on the OPPOSITE side of the ice GETTING OPEN for a pass across. Those goals are easy but nobody is ever where they need to be. There is no reason to be standing directly in front of the net unless the puck is out at the point. All you're doing is cutting off passing options across the ice. Get out of the way and get open.
Whichever D is behind the puck carrier needs to stick to the wall for an outlet as well. Opposite D should creep towards the center of the ice, hanging back a bit to make sure we're covering.
Rushes:
When we're going up the ice, there should not be as many problems as we have. People going way offsides, being in the wrong place, making terrible passes, etc.
If we get a 2 on 1 (which is hard to do when 4 of our players are chasing the puck around), we have options.
If the dman is between our skaters, don't try to force a pass through them. Once we hit the dots, we need to stop and get a pass across after the dman slides past and opens a lane. If that doesn't work, then we can improvise.
When we have a 3 person rush, we're always a mess. We're crowded together, not going where we need to go, and getting in each other's way.
First off, we need to spread out when we go up the ice. Get away from the other players so we can spread the defense out. Whoever in the middle should not be charging straight to the net. All you're doing is killing options and getting in the way. Player in the middle needs to pull up in the slot and hang back. Skater on the opposite side from the puck needs to stay wide so if the pass comes across, then the goalie has to move. Don't go to the front of the net. NOBODY needs to be there. If the pass across isn't there, the player hanging back in the slot is the 2nd option. Doesn't matter if its a wing or the center there. Again, this is being aware of where you are. If you're in the middle, you hang back. If the first option isn't there, the 2nd should be because it means the defense chased the puck low. If neither option is there, we can kick it back to D or circle around until we can get reset.
A lot of the bad habits feel like people trying to play this like it's offline be a pro. You don't need to be next to the puck all game and you don't need to be everywhere all the time. There are other people on this club. If you aren't doing your job, you're making their job that much harder.
If you don't have the puck, get open. If the other team has it, make sure you're covering where you should be.
Again, this is all simple, basic stuff. It's not hard.
There was a lot more that was going to go in this post but it's late and I don't have the energy for it.
If anyone else wants to add anything, feel free.
I've seen this all before
"Hey guys let's play dzb+1 defensive system!"
*proceeds to not play dzb+1 defensive system*
Plus it's kind of dumb to play it because it's a pressure system designed to goad the opposite team into making an error which turns over the puck. That in itself is kinda silly as players can do pinpoint passes and pinpoint shots and obstacles are largely ignored. Plus it's incredibly difficult for a C to do in the game as you have the manoeuvrability and start-stop times of a speedboat.
What works well in these garbage games is player on player defense, more notably overload. 2 on 1 engagements to separate the player from the puck and using physicality to deny zone entry. For some weird reason I see the defensive forward coming back and almost playing the trap triangle... Which like b+1 is to force teams into turnovers.
Our biggest issue is the lack of zone denials. Our in-zone D is pretty good... Need to use more stick lifts. Our rush D is awful. Our transitions are laughable. We turn over more pucks at our blue line than offensive one somehow.
Just want to mention for offense that in that last game, I was open quite frequently but never had possession of the puck from a forward pass. There was the one time I had brief possession when I caused 4 turnovers in a row (which was the only time in game where we had constant zone pressure) but beyond that Nada. Easy for other teams to defend when you're only using half the ice.
"Hey guys let's play dzb+1 defensive system!"
*proceeds to not play dzb+1 defensive system*
Plus it's kind of dumb to play it because it's a pressure system designed to goad the opposite team into making an error which turns over the puck. That in itself is kinda silly as players can do pinpoint passes and pinpoint shots and obstacles are largely ignored. Plus it's incredibly difficult for a C to do in the game as you have the manoeuvrability and start-stop times of a speedboat.
What works well in these garbage games is player on player defense, more notably overload. 2 on 1 engagements to separate the player from the puck and using physicality to deny zone entry. For some weird reason I see the defensive forward coming back and almost playing the trap triangle... Which like b+1 is to force teams into turnovers.
Our biggest issue is the lack of zone denials. Our in-zone D is pretty good... Need to use more stick lifts. Our rush D is awful. Our transitions are laughable. We turn over more pucks at our blue line than offensive one somehow.
Just want to mention for offense that in that last game, I was open quite frequently but never had possession of the puck from a forward pass. There was the one time I had brief possession when I caused 4 turnovers in a row (which was the only time in game where we had constant zone pressure) but beyond that Nada. Easy for other teams to defend when you're only using half the ice.
Totally agree with everything said and will do better myself with my positioning
A huge problem that I always keep seeing (and that Marv pointed out in his preschool diagrams) is that the LW/RW really need to stay mid zone to blue line. I know it's hard but those two must try not to push below the circles. When you've got four people down there trying to poke the puck it A) Gets confusing fast B) Screens the goalie C) Leaves no one to pass to.
A few times I've gotten a pass from a forward who is below the goalie as an enforcer D-man and I'm like.. the hell you want me to do with this? It feels like I can barely pass with some of these D types.
A few things that will help as well are fewer suicide passes (I think forwards can help this by skating diagonal? I dunno), Closer to the D passing out of the zone? Dunno) less dekes on the blue line, not skating towards the puck carrier and getting in his way, and not forcing that middle pass, and if there's no pass... then shoot the puck.
A huge problem that I always keep seeing (and that Marv pointed out in his preschool diagrams) is that the LW/RW really need to stay mid zone to blue line. I know it's hard but those two must try not to push below the circles. When you've got four people down there trying to poke the puck it A) Gets confusing fast B) Screens the goalie C) Leaves no one to pass to.
A few times I've gotten a pass from a forward who is below the goalie as an enforcer D-man and I'm like.. the hell you want me to do with this? It feels like I can barely pass with some of these D types.
A few things that will help as well are fewer suicide passes (I think forwards can help this by skating diagonal? I dunno), Closer to the D passing out of the zone? Dunno) less dekes on the blue line, not skating towards the puck carrier and getting in his way, and not forcing that middle pass, and if there's no pass... then shoot the puck.
This is all when and good but when most of our players are all crammed into one spot on defense, it doesnt work. I cant count how many times a game I get left alone out front and have to try and cover the slot and both points because Im the only one out there.
Another thing I wanted to mention last night:
These unnecessary tripping penalties need to stop. If youre 3 feet behind the puck carrier, a poke check isnt going to do anything except put us on the penalty kill. Im well aware that tripping penalties are broken and the game gives them to you even when youre in a good spot with a good poke, but a lot of the ones we take are totally unnecessary though.
Yeah like I said, theres going to still be dumb tripping calls, its just that some of the ones we take are really dumb.
A mix basically. If the puck is out at the point, challenge for it. If not, then you need to be cutting off passing lanes to anyone around your spot.
The biggest thing really is that we don't need, for example, LW being down where RD is supposed to be.
aiiiiiiiiiigghhhhhhhhhhhhtttt.
Also we don't need 2 forwards in the slot in front of the net, one forward has to make themselves available down low behind the net as a passing option to cycle. I notice that our forecheck game is garbage too, barely any sustained play at all. One thing we're not doing is spreading out on the forecheck when the team has the puck, usually we got 2 people chasing the puck carrier instead of just 1, allowing the team to break out easily to the open man.
I have noticed the trap is super effective this year, chasing the puck carrier behind their net when there is barely a chance to retrieve it is just asking for a quick penalty, when you are poke checking like crazy chasing the player (usually getting chased by another player :|) .
The PS4 crew is making fun of our fancy images ;(
Also we don't need 2 forwards in the slot in front of the net, one forward has to make themselves available down low behind the net as a passing option to cycle. I notice that our forecheck game is garbage too, barely any sustained play at all. One thing we're not doing is spreading out on the forecheck when the team has the puck, usually we got 2 people chasing the puck carrier instead of just 1, allowing the team to break out easily to the open man.
I have noticed the trap is super effective this year, chasing the puck carrier behind their net when there is barely a chance to retrieve it is just asking for a quick penalty, when you are poke checking like crazy chasing the player (usually getting chased by another player :|) .
The PS4 crew is making fun of our fancy images ;(
I mentioned that earlier. ;D
Forecheck is definitely something we could be better at. Part of it is us being bunched up a lot with everyone chasing the puck. We shouldnt be chasing. If we have someone pressuring them, everyone else needs to be cutting off their options.
They just jelly they dont have coach Marvie.
I know I probably play out of positions quite a few times, but I will tell you my thought process. Usually Id start a game trying to keep in position, aka LW. Id stay in the blue line area while defending but inevitably Ill see we struggle to clear the puck closer to the net. I feel like a jerk hanging out in the blue line and not coming in to help. Thats why I leave my position. In offence, I try to stick to the left too and park myself to the left of the net unless I see some massive opening elsewhere. Im a pass first kind of player unless Im already in front of the net and ready to shoot. Been playing as a playmaker role in this club more recently now because of that.
If I should just stick to my positions area, I can do that. I just feel like Im not contributing on the defence if I see struggles in front of our net while Im out on the perimeter.
They're pretty.......
Seriously though... instead of going 3 straight on rushes... you guys should try to have one guy trailing in the middle.. 3 deep doesn't really work in this game..
this way you have the option to shoot for rebound, pass for cross crease or stop and pass to the trailer for a one timer. This works great for us..
Excuse me sir, but that idea was already poorly drawn in diagram 4 in the first part of the multi-award winning series "Coach Marvie Draws Hockey For Dummies"