Nintendo Returns to Profit in First Half
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Azih said:
Um, what is the problem with trying to resurrect the japanese game market? Maybe 10 years from now the American Market will be the same way. Then again maybe not. If they can get alot of people interested in games again then they could end up making alot of money. Either way, I don't think Nintendo is doing that much wrong if they are making about 500 million in profit.
SomeDude said:
the problem dude, is that they're NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE RED HOT NORTH AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN MARKETS. Man I hate repeating myself.
Additionally in their quest to save Japan, Nintendo has actively alienated the other markets. So they haven't made any dent at all in Japan and further diminished their brand in N.America/Europe.
Arguments that rely on what 'might' happen 10 years in the future don't impress me in the least. The GC generation represents wasted opportunity for Nintendo and their 'gaming is become niche!!!one' nonsense is primarily to blame in my view.
Azih said:
If Nintendo competes directly with MS or Sony for the mature market Nintendo is going to get shut down. Eternal Darkness, MGS, and Resident Evil have all bombed in sales. If the new Zelda game had non Zelda characters noone would give a shit about it.
As for what "might" happen, companies always look ahead and see where events could end up going.
SomeDude said:
Ah bloody hell, where did I say anything about the mature market? I said the NORTH AMERICAN/EUROPEAN Markets. Nintendo doesn't even acknowledge these areas in their games development and that's why they get PUNKED.
Your mentions of second/third party software is irrelevant as I'm talking about Nintendo's overall direction which is determined completely by their first party stuff and by what Iwata and Miyamoto say.
inane blatherings about what might happen to America in 10 years does not qualify as a reasoned forecast that one can base business decisions on. The ONLY way you can assume that gaming is becoming niche is if you only take Japan into account. And that's a horrendous way to run a global company.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
I agree with Azih. Nintendo has almost zero european/us developpers working on game for the american/us market.
Eh, it's no fun to argue about the good stuff.
It's the best of both worlds, really... Nintendo will continue to earn profits and make games, and each year the fans can say how great the company is, and the non-fans can continue to say how irrelevant the complany is, and everybody's happy.
It's the best of both worlds, really... Nintendo will continue to earn profits and make games, and each year the fans can say how great the company is, and the non-fans can continue to say how irrelevant the complany is, and everybody's happy.
Nope, didn't say that.GaimeGuy said:
Yes.GaimeGuy said:
Hence, my point was that Nintendo was able to function better as a BUSINESS and earn more MONEY as well as soundly defeating competitors in previous generations compared to today.
OK.Mumu said:
So what's stopping Nintendo from getting the market share which they previously had back?
Bah, Nintendo is stuck in trying to save the Japanese market, is compeltely ignoring the needs of the American/European markets and THAT'S why their marketshare suffers.
It's got nothing to do with making or not making money. The Gamecube has been underperforming their expectations from day one.
It's got nothing to do with making or not making money. The Gamecube has been underperforming their expectations from day one.
GaimeGuy said:
so then by all means go buy some Nintendo stock, their profits might've risen but it was mostly due to a weak yen and high margin products like the GBA NES games, the red flag that most investors will see is that their revs are decreasing in the face of a growing market
Catchpenny
Member
Link316 said:
Well, they're forecasting a 5% increase on YoY sales. I think their first-half sale decline from last year has to do with Zelda, Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire and the SP coming out in America during the first half of 2003. That's an unusually strong first half lineup for Nintendo.
jedimike said:
Jesus.
GameCube sales are shit. There's pretty much nothing Nintendo can do right now, accept keep making good games and up the advertising a bit. Try to sell at least 100k GameCubes a month in the US (save for the holidays) and then go back to the drawing board for Revolution :/
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
Prine said:
Isn't the gap more than a mil already in NA ? .. and I'm not talking about total sales, I'm talking about the holiday season NOV/DEC
Azih said:
will WW is gonna be on my side, so I'll go with NA cuz thats where ppl think GC is 'dead'
not more than 200k difference ? .. whats last year's sales for NOV/DEC ?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Arguing profits doesn't do me much good. I like Nintendo and am getting it, Nintendo likes money and is getting it, and so for the foreseeable future it seems we'll be pretty happy. *shrugs* However, any discussion of sales gives me a good excuse to use my bigass spreadsheet.
November 2003
GBA: 1,323,000
PS2: 849,000
GCN: 754,000
XBX: 491,000
GCN's Black Friday Wal-Mart sale pushed a few hundred thousand extra units for sure.
December 2003
GBA: 2,316,000
PS2: 1,970,000
GCN: 1,122,000
XBX: 1,163,000
$99 Zelda bundle was pretty popular. Doubt it will be as big a deal this year, as the $99 price is the same, and the added value of an extra controller will probably not strike people as stupendously. Even if people do factor in that extra value, though, Xbox and PS2 have dropped $30 as well, so it pretty much evens out.
GameCube has lost some share in the market this year... as of October 2003 they had 20.97% of the yearly sales. As of October 2004 they have 17.92%, a 14.52% loss. However, as of October 2002 they had 16.87%, so 2004 has been a better year than 2002.
Last year I made some really accurate predictions for December, but I had November numbers to go by. Any guesses made right now for Nov+Dec probably won't be very accurate. But if I take into account that compared to last year overall console sales are slightly down, overall GCN market share is somewhat less, and that I don't think the big boosters of Nov+Dec 2003 will be repeated, perhaps in Nov+Dec the sales will be around 1.05 million. Add in October and projections for January through March and for that half in the US I guess around 1.55 million?
Adding in European, Japanese, etc. sales there doesn't seem to be much chance of hitting 4 million sold. But then, shipped != sold, so it's hard to say which will be the larger in a given time frame.
Almokla, I think you're quite wrong that GCN will be fairly close to another console's sales this time. The thing is, even though GCN's share hasn't decreased much, Xbox's share has increased much by eating into PS2's. So rather than comparing GCN to one competitor who tends to do slightly more and one who does a HELL of a lot more, in 2004 it's comparing GCN to one competitor who sells quite a bit more and one who does a HECK of a lot more. If I were to apply October 2004's market share percentages to December 2003's console sales, it would end up 1.94M PS2, 1.55M Xbox, 0.76M GCN.
Yeah. As of the October numbers, Xbox has a 2.1 million lead over GCN in the US, actually. By percentage, there are about 26% more Xboxen than GCN; approximately the same percentage difference as June 2002 and September 2003.almokla said:
November 2003
GBA: 1,323,000
PS2: 849,000
GCN: 754,000
XBX: 491,000
GCN's Black Friday Wal-Mart sale pushed a few hundred thousand extra units for sure.
December 2003
GBA: 2,316,000
PS2: 1,970,000
GCN: 1,122,000
XBX: 1,163,000
$99 Zelda bundle was pretty popular. Doubt it will be as big a deal this year, as the $99 price is the same, and the added value of an extra controller will probably not strike people as stupendously. Even if people do factor in that extra value, though, Xbox and PS2 have dropped $30 as well, so it pretty much evens out.
GameCube has lost some share in the market this year... as of October 2003 they had 20.97% of the yearly sales. As of October 2004 they have 17.92%, a 14.52% loss. However, as of October 2002 they had 16.87%, so 2004 has been a better year than 2002.
Last year I made some really accurate predictions for December, but I had November numbers to go by. Any guesses made right now for Nov+Dec probably won't be very accurate. But if I take into account that compared to last year overall console sales are slightly down, overall GCN market share is somewhat less, and that I don't think the big boosters of Nov+Dec 2003 will be repeated, perhaps in Nov+Dec the sales will be around 1.05 million. Add in October and projections for January through March and for that half in the US I guess around 1.55 million?
Adding in European, Japanese, etc. sales there doesn't seem to be much chance of hitting 4 million sold. But then, shipped != sold, so it's hard to say which will be the larger in a given time frame.
Almokla, I think you're quite wrong that GCN will be fairly close to another console's sales this time. The thing is, even though GCN's share hasn't decreased much, Xbox's share has increased much by eating into PS2's. So rather than comparing GCN to one competitor who tends to do slightly more and one who does a HELL of a lot more, in 2004 it's comparing GCN to one competitor who sells quite a bit more and one who does a HECK of a lot more. If I were to apply October 2004's market share percentages to December 2003's console sales, it would end up 1.94M PS2, 1.55M Xbox, 0.76M GCN.
soundwave05
Member
Wow, Nintendo could approach $1 billion in profits for the full year when you consider these sales don't account for Christmas or the DS launch period.
SomeDude said:
Well, those few games were either not that good or ports/remakes of old games. Not exactly stellar material.
The NGC set itself early on as a niche console catering younger gamers, that went for the flagship software to the look of the console. Throwing a few mature titles once in a while is a bit pointless if the intended audience didn't buy the console in the first place.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
How many times can Nintendo keep losing marketshare and go down in sales before it catches up to them?
So Nintendo makes major profit from things aside sales, I take it. Licensing and such?
So Nintendo makes major profit from things aside sales, I take it. Licensing and such?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Bump. Answer.
soundwave05
Member
They make a ton of money off their software sales and the way their business is structured.
They really don't lose money on anything. They may be losing like $10 per GameCube hardware, but even that's basically nill because almost everyone who buys a GCN automatically buys a Nintendo game to go with it.
Everything they make they make a profit off of. Even games like Mario Tennis, when you get to worldwide sales totals, you're probably pretty close to 1 million copies, which more than covers development costs.
Even the Seattle Mariners are profitable, a rarity for a MLB baseball franchise.
They really don't lose money on anything. They may be losing like $10 per GameCube hardware, but even that's basically nill because almost everyone who buys a GCN automatically buys a Nintendo game to go with it.
Everything they make they make a profit off of. Even games like Mario Tennis, when you get to worldwide sales totals, you're probably pretty close to 1 million copies, which more than covers development costs.
Even the Seattle Mariners are profitable, a rarity for a MLB baseball franchise.
soundwave05
Member
I dunno if its too much lower, but even if you have sales like something akin to Paper Mario 2, which sells 300k in Japan and then 300k in North America and 150k in Europe ... again that's 750,000 copies, which probably yeilds a healthy profit.
Then there's stuff like Pokemon and the Mario re-releases which cost very little but end up selling huge.
Really I don't see anywhere where they wouldn't make a profit.
Then there's stuff like Pokemon and the Mario re-releases which cost very little but end up selling huge.
Really I don't see anywhere where they wouldn't make a profit.
The Abominable Snowman said:
Well they've been doing it for almost 15 years now, and they are on course to hit profits of $875M this year. The thing with handheld gaming people forget is, although the psp may be a huge challenger, it'll not have games quite as huge as MGS3 and DQ8 to drive it. On the other hand Nintendo are strongest with the likes of WarioWare and Pokemon. Even if Sony become market leader, Nintendo will probably maintain their huge younger handheld audience, and with handheld gaming as a whole growing, particularly with the arrival of the DS, Nintendo will probably remain very profitable for the next 10-15 years at least. It would probably then be another 15-30 years of sustained losses before they spend all their savings and actually begin to go into debt. Then maybe another 5-10 years before they have to concede defeat like Sega and go 3rd party.
So yeah, 2054 one console future, here we come!
soundwave05
Member
I think they've almost made $2 billion in profit in a year before, so I don't know if this would be the largest.
It's up there, and its pretty impressive considering GCN sales aren't so hot right now.
It's up there, and its pretty impressive considering GCN sales aren't so hot right now.
AniHawk said:
The situation with Sony is a really odd one. They're very unstable when it comes to profits, lately. They'll go one year where they'll make 800 million dollars profit. And the year later, they'll lose a billion dollars (I believe they reported a 1 billion dollar net loss in 2003, or maybe it was 2002; it was one of those years).
They're an overall successful company, but their yearly performances fluxuate very dramatically.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Interesting. Perhaps it isn't as much of a non-factor as I thought. However, I'm sure Halo 2 isn't exactly making Xbox sales slow down, either. As for catching up with Xbox for 2004 sales, yeah, pretty unlikely. :lol Of that 2.1 million lead almost 1.2 million is from this year.Auron said:
Something else I didn't factor into my GCN predictions above, either. Surely the DS will eat into the sales of other systems to some degree, and I'm sure that would eat into GCN sales moreso than it would for PS2 and Xbox.
I'm pretty positive they've never made $1 billion in profit yet. These numbers may be a new high if they turn out... but then, my memories tend to be of the US$ equivalent rather than yen, so with those relations so fluctuous I'm not sure.soundwave05 said:
The Abominable Snowman
Member
With no real mainstream games? The Xbox has at least 1 and the PS2 has at least 2. The GC has nothing that strikes the consumer as a DEFINITE purchase. And lets not forget the Xbox bundles too. I HIGHLY doubt the GC will come within 200K of the Xbox, and that's an understatement.Auron said:
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