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[Calm Mind]

I think it has to do with the fact that many Ethernet-over-USB ports support 10/100 Mb connection instead of 10/100/1000 Mb connections.

But I could be totally wrong, since I consider myself illiterate when it comes to technology.

If the rumors of the Switch having two USB 3.0 ports are true, none of that would be a problem.

 

[Cmerrill]

So according to Laura the base model will have 32GB of memory(from the obi1 video the other day), and the switch can support 128GB micro SD(I'm assuming at launch until later updated).

If the base model ends up being $250, and the bundle gets more storage and costs $300 with a game(lets say splatoon or botw), how much more storage space can we really predict getting? I'm guessing 64GB-120GB, with 64GB the most likely.

But 120GB ssds cost less than $50 nowadays(you can get one for around 40 on amazon), and they're only like $10 more than the 64GB ones and $20 more at the most than 32GB(who even buys these anymore?). I don't even like splatoon, but I would totally get a switch 128GB SSD for $300, mainly for the space. It sounds pathetic when you know ps4 and xbone already have 1TB included for at least $300, and we gotta deal with 32GB. Ugh

Wtf? That's all it will have for internal storage?

Christ, 500gb in a PS4 or Xbox One isn't enough. Especially with patch and install sizes these days.

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

 

[darkazcura]

Wtf? That's all it will have for internal storage?

Christ, 500gb in a PS4 or Xbox One isn't enough. Especially with patch and install sizes these days.

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

Where exactly do you store the hard drive on a portable device?

EDIT: We also have no idea if installs will be necessary for the Switch (I am betting not), and patches could be stored on the game card itself for all we know.

Storage is only an issue if you plan on going 100% digital and for all we know Nintendo will allow for an external hard drive solution when docked where you can swap games between external and internal storage. We don't know enough yet.

 

[Speely]

Where exactly do you store the hard drive on a portable device?

In your hopes and dreams. Limitless.

 

[Vic]

Where exactly do you store the hard drive on a portable device?

EDIT: We also have no idea if installs will be necessary for the Switch (I am betting not), and patches could be stored on the game card itself for all we know.

Storage is only an issue if you plan on going 100% digital and for all we know Nintendo will allow for an external hard drive solution when docked where you can swap games between external and internal storage. We don't know enough yet.

I thought about this but no way it happens. Wouldn't such cards be very expensive for the publishers?

 

[AfroDust]

There's no real reason to do this. If you've got, let's say, a 4 SM GPU and you want to hit a particular performance in portable mode, then you'll consume less power by using all four at a low clock speed than two at a higher clock speed. Equivalently, if you want to get as much performance as possible out of a given power budget, you'll get better performance with more SMs at a lower clock than you'd get by disabling some and running the rest at a higher clock.

What do you think the chances are that the Switch's GPU has more than 2 SM's? If this is true, and I know you know what you're talking about, then would the lower clockspeeds we heard about be a result of this?

 

[antonz]

The portable aspect of it is pretty much why HDD support wont be a thing unless someone finds a way to bring support. Nintendo is going to do things for the lowest common denominator and as such that means HDD are a problem because using one while docked would be an issue when it comes to undocked. That said properly optimized games etc. should be able to run off the cards just fine without the need for HDD installs to speed shit up etc. So while patches will be an issue long term you will use a lot less Hstorage space not installing games due to slow bluray drives etc.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Wtf? That's all it will have for internal storage?

Christ, 500gb in a PS4 or Xbox One isn't enough. Especially with patch and install sizes these days.

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

To be fair, we don't have to do mandatory full game installs like ps4 or xbone. But still, if its digital downloads its going to add up quickly.

I always thought 500GB was more than enough for most consumers though.

 

[darkazcura]

I thought about this but no way it happens. Wouldn't such cards be very expensive for the publishers?

I'm also hesitant to believe patches can be stored on the game card because I think the cards would be expensive; however, if they don't allow patching on the cards, my hope for decent third party support honestly dwindles a bit because then you are really dealing with some limited storage on board..we just have to wait and see what kind of game cards Nintendo will be using.

I don't think installs will be necessary though? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The portable aspect of it is pretty much why HDD support wont be a thing unless someone finds a way to bring support. Nintendo is going to do things for the lowest common denominator and as such that means HDD are a problem because using one while docked would be an issue when it comes to undocked. That said properly optimized games etc. should be able to run off the cards just fine without the need for HDD installs to speed shit up etc. So while patches will be an issue long term you will use a lot less Hstorage space not installing games due to slow bluray drives etc.

I really feel like this shouldn't be a big issue if it is allowed. You could use an external as a sort of bank. You would be able to keep anywhere from 5-10 (maybe some more) games on the Switch itself, and rotate games whenever you want. It'd be better than constantly re-downloading and deleting.

 

[Schnozberry]

What do you think the chances are that the Switch's GPU has more than 2 SM's? If this is true, and I know you know what you're talking about, then would the lower clockspeeds we heard about be a result of this?

We have no idea. Using more SM's and CPU Cores at lower clocks is one way to save energy over going with fewer cores and higher clocks. But we have no indication that this is the case, other than the cooling fan being somewhat peculiar for a device running a Tegra X1 at these clocks speeds.

 

[LCGeek]

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

Sorry for being blunt, but this idea and nintendo should rarely ever be put together. They really aren't out for the modern consumer especially anyone willing to pay up a little money or expects a little more effort.

Nintendo has basically always been a like/love or leave it kind of company. The company will alter the 802.11 spec to make the WIiU pad better but won't at the same time install or configure around bufferbloat which is permanent unless you address it. The same could also be said of altering the spec but making the range of use worse despite no reason for it except more of their backwards policies.

 

[xochipiltontli]

I was planning on going all digital with a 256gb micro sd card, hopefully they're lying about the 128gb and it ends up being like the 3DS only supporting 32gb (requiring a format to FAT32 to use larger sizes).

 

[antonz]

I was planning on going all digital with a 256gb micro sd card, hopefully they're lying about the 128gb and it ends up being like the 3DS only supporting 32gb (requiring a format to FAT32 to use larger sizes).

You should be fine. Nintendo Caveat is they test up to X amount and guarantee compatibility to there. Basically larger sizes that come later etc. are almost guaranteed to be supported just not there when they ran their tests

 

[Schnozberry]

I was planning on going all digital with a 256gb micro sd card, hopefully they're lying about the 128gb and it ends up being like the 3DS only supporting 32gb (requiring a format to FAT32 to use larger sizes).

Unless they are hobbling the device intentionally through software, there's no reason it couldn't handle 256GB.

 

[Vic]

I'm also hesitant to believe patches can be stored on the game card because I think the cards would be expensive; however, if they don't allow patching on the cards, my hope for decent third party support honestly dwindles a bit because then you are really dealing with some limited storage on board..we just have to wait and see what kind of game cards Nintendo will be using.

I mean, it would be awesome if that's how it worked to update games but I very much doubt it. Also, it would mean that a card needs to be inserted into the system in-order to upgrade a game. Maybe the OS could predict this and cache the patches of the games most recently played or something like that.

I don't think installs will be necessary though? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No way they'll allow installs with the size of the internal space that has been rumored.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Wtf? That's all it will have for internal storage?

Christ, 500gb in a PS4 or Xbox One isn't enough. Especially with patch and install sizes these days.

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

Lol you expect a hard drive on the switch? And there's no such thing as 500gb of flash storage, not on a device this allegedly inexpensive.

 

[lwilliams3]

I was able to talk to someone involved in the development of the soc and they say that api is very custom and people are underestimating the performance gains afforded by it.

Hmm, since NVidia should already have a good API for the Shield, would a very custom API imply that the hardware itself has been at least moderately customized from the TX1 chipset?

 

[ShadowFox08]

I was planning on going all digital with a 256gb micro sd card, hopefully they're lying about the 128gb and it ends up being like the 3DS only supporting 32gb (requiring a format to FAT32 to use larger sizes).

Don't worry about it too much. If its 128GB storage at launch is true, they could always release firmware down the road to accept higher capacity cards. They did the same exact thing with Wii U.

I'm thinking the main reason why they would do such a thing is that SD cards are a lot more expensive over HDD and SSDs, and they don't want their consumers spending too much right away. But their cost will go down overtime over the years.

 

[z0m3le]

Where exactly do you store the hard drive on a portable device?

EDIT: We also have no idea if installs will be necessary for the Switch (I am betting not), and patches could be stored on the game card itself for all we know.

Storage is only an issue if you plan on going 100% digital and for all we know Nintendo will allow for an external hard drive solution when docked where you can swap games between external and internal storage. We don't know enough yet.

MicroSD cards are about to drop in price when 512gb MicroSD cards hit the market next year, that 1tb SD card will be shrunk to MicroSD in the next couple years as well, all of those things push down the price of 256gb MicroSD cards.

The real question is will the average all digital customer need more than 350GB of storage in the first year or two?

 

[ShadowFox08]

I remember 10 years ago when 1GB micro sd cards were $100. I had to buy it for my verizon chocolate(garbage ass touch phone btw). And then literally a year later, 2GB was like a $100. *shudders*

Yeah I'm guessing 1 TB for micro sd will be $100 in 2020. lol. Still kind of err pathetic when you compare it to HDDs(which you can buy one for $50). Oh well.

 

[Calm Mind]

nvm

 

[Calm Mind]

Where exactly do you store the hard drive on a portable device?

EDIT: We also have no idea if installs will be necessary for the Switch (I am betting not), and patches could be stored on the game card itself for all we know.

Storage is only an issue if you plan on going 100% digital and for all we know Nintendo will allow for an external hard drive solution when docked where you can swap games between external and internal storage. We don't know enough yet.

I know the purpose of the thread is Switch discussion but it seems like a few individuals are creating problems in their head that don't exist. Thankfully, all this will be over in two weeks time.

(not directed at the quoted)

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Well, this is DEFINITELY whishful thinking, but I'm hoping that the Switch, when docked, supports HDR output. BECAUSE I JUST SPENT $700 ON THIS NEW HDR TV AND GOD DAMMIT, I NEED MORE THINGS TO USE IT ON THAN JUST SHADOW WARRIOR 2 AND A HANDFUL OF NETFLIX PROGRAMS!

Ooh, I didn't give this a thought. It would definitely be very nice to have! Playing Zelda BOTW with HDR might be enough to make me get an HDR TV over UHD Blu-Ray.

I don't see why it can't do HDR. Not wishful thinking at all.

 

[Vic]

Every GPU Nintendo puts out is quite heavily customised in one way or another. Which is why I always laugh when I see some people convinced Switch will just be a down-clocked Tegra X1 simply because of the Digital Foundry article, there isn't a single chance of that happening.

Even though it has Maxwell GPU cores, the Tegra X1 like most SoC wasn't purposefully designed for a dedicated gaming system. A pool of high memory bandwidth is crucial for advanced 3D rendering and the X1 doesn't have any. I really doubt that the Switch SoC won't have a pool of eSRAM, especially since every Nintendo system excluding the N64 had VRAM.

 

[KingSnake]

I was thinking what if the fan in the tablet is for VR, if the rumour about VR coming somewhere down the line is true?

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Ooh, I didn't give this a thought. It would definitely be very nice to have! Playing Zelda BOTW with HDR might be enough to make me get an HDR TV over UHD Blu-Ray.

I don't see why it can't do HDR. Not wishful thinking at all.

Because it's Nintendo. They released their first HD system in 2012, 7 years after 360. HDR seems to be relatively new in TVs, I just don't seem them jumping in this bandwagon yet.

 

[EDarkness]

Because it's Nintendo. They released their first HD system in 2012, 7 years after 360. HDR seems to be relatively new in TVs, I just don't seem them jumping in this bandwagon yet.

Don't Maxwell chips have that feature standard?

 

[Hermii]

Because it's Nintendo. They released their first HD system in 2012, 7 years after 360. HDR seems to be relatively new in TVs, I just don't seem them jumping in this bandwagon yet.

Thats not the same thing. HD requires massive processing power increases compared to SD and a much more expensive device. HDR requires zero extra processing power and very small additions to the soc.

 

[M3d10n]

I was able to talk to someone involved in the development of the soc and they say that api is very custom and people are underestimating the performance gains afforded by it.

I suppose Nintendo demanded bare metal access to the GPU from NVidia, so no black box driver nonsense.

The NVN API probably works like the 3DS API, which directly generates native GPU command lists with zero error checking, no state management and allows reusing and stitching together previously generated lists for minimal CPU overhead. It's basically Vulkan on steroids.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Sorry for being blunt, but this idea and nintendo should rarely ever be put together. They really aren't out for the modern consumer especially anyone willing to pay up a little money or expects a little more effort.

Nintendo has basically always been a like/love or leave it kind of company. The company will alter the 802.11 spec to make the WIiU pad better but won't at the same time install or configure around bufferbloat which is permanent unless you address it. The same could also be said of altering the spec but making the range of use worse despite no reason for it except more of their backwards policies.

As far as you know was Switch downgraded spec / clock wise in the last few months ?

 

[Durante]

Even though it has Maxwell GPU cores, the Tegra X1 like most SoC wasn't purposefully designed for a dedicated gaming system. A pool of high memory bandwidth is crucial for advanced 3D rendering and the X1 doesn't have any.

Why? At the indicated low GPU and CPU clocks the external bandwidth seems sufficient, with a decent cache (which X1 has). Especially given that it does tile-based rasterization.

I suppose Nintendo demanded bare metal access to the GPU from NVidia, so no black box driver nonsense.

The NVN API probably works like the 3DS API, which directly generates native GPU command lists with zero error checking, no state management and allows reusing and stitching together previously generated lists for minimal CPU overhead. It's basically Vulkan on steroids.

I still think that going lower level than Vulkan would be a bad decision. How much additional performance are you going to extract that way in any halfway realistic game scenario? And is that worth all the compatibility hassles you are ikely to incur in the future?

If there's something that actually has a realistic payoff, create a clearly specified and limited Vulkan extension for it, don't burden your future forward/backward compatibility efforts for a 1% overall performance increase only 1% of all developers is going to use.

 

[Yagami_Sama]

I am very concerned about the internal storage.

If the rumor of 32GB of internal storage is true. That might be a problem. With Wii U we could use a external drive , but here for Switch , I don’t think that this is an option, mainly considering the console in portable mode.

Nowadays we have big day one patch, or big updates, like Doom had a patch of 29GB, how Switch will handle this ?

 

[Net]

Wtf? That's all it will have for internal storage?

Christ, 500gb in a PS4 or Xbox One isn't enough. Especially with patch and install sizes these days.

Completely unacceptable and just another sign Nintendo has no idea what it's doing and what the modern consumer needs.

Why would you need installs when you're using cartridges?

 

[Zedark]

I am very concerned about the internal storage.

If the rumor of 32GB of internal storage is true. That might be a problem. With Wii U we could use a external drive , but here for Switch , I don’t think that this is an option, mainly considering the console in portable mode.

Nowadays we have big day one patch, or big updates, like Doom had a patch of 29GB, how Switch will handle this ?

I would think the only option is to have patches on the cards. Otherwise, as you say, you basically won't be able to play more than one game. Of course, you can buy a micro sd card, but I personally think patches will go on the card.

 

[Karanlos]

I still think that going lower level than Vulkan would be a bad decision. How much additional performance are you going to extract that way in any halfway realistic game scenario? And is that worth all the compatibility hassles you are ikely to incur in the future?

If there's something that actually has a realistic payoff, create a clearly specified and limited Vulkan extension for it, don't burden your future forward/backward compatibility efforts for a 1% overall performance increase only 1% of all developers is going to use.

The nVidia blog post says API for light weight gaming, which could mean alot of things. Would be wierd to have Vulkan + your own Vulkan like API instead of just making those things you've added extensions as you said.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Why would you need installs when you're using cartridges?

Some people would like to go digital only, as they did on Wii U.
e.g. me.

 

[blu]

Since we all expected A72s, here are some, optionally with windows 10, at that ;p

My future 2x A72 notebook, next to my 4x A72 desktop (scheduled for Jan). Seems 2017 is off to a good start for the CPU architecture aficionados ; )

 

[Zedark]

Some people would like to go digital only, as they did on Wii U.
e.g. me.

This is your best bet, then:

MicroSD cards are about to drop in price when 512gb MicroSD cards hit the market next year, that 1tb SD card will be shrunk to MicroSD in the next couple years as well, all of those things push down the price of 256gb MicroSD cards.

The real question is will the average all digital customer need more than 350GB of storage in the first year or two?

 

[Net]

Some people would like to go digital only, as they did on Wii U.
e.g. me.

Unfortunately I don't think it's possible to have a system both function as a portable and also have sufficient internal storage for digital only. At least not within a reasonable price point.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I am very concerned about the internal storage.

If the rumor of 32GB of internal storage is true. That might be a problem. With Wii U we could use a external drive , but here for Switch , I don’t think that this is an option, mainly considering the console in portable mode.

Nowadays we have big day one patch, or big updates, like Doom had a patch of 29GB, how Switch will handle this ?

200+GB Micro SDs were around 40 bucks over the holidays i think?

Yeah not amazing but the prices should keep going down as capacities rise

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I still think that going lower level than Vulkan would be a bad decision. How much additional performance are you going to extract that way in any halfway realistic game scenario? And is that worth all the compatibility hassles you are ikely to incur in the future?

If there's something that actually has a realistic payoff, create a clearly specified and limited Vulkan extension for it, don't burden your future forward/backward compatibility efforts for a 1% overall performance increase only 1% of all developers is going to use.

Those Shin'en games though.

 

[blu]

I still think that going lower level than Vulkan would be a bad decision. How much additional performance are you going to extract that way in any halfway realistic game scenario? And is that worth all the compatibility hassles you are likely to incur in the future?

If there's something that actually has a realistic payoff, create a clearly specified and limited Vulkan extension for it, don't burden your future forward/backward compatibility efforts for a 1% overall performance increase only 1% of all developers is going to use.

But what's the difference in the extension scenario compared to the speculated Vulkan & a proprietary API? Code written against core Vulkan will continue to work with Switch Vulkan. Core written against Switch Vulkan's proprietary extensions will not work with non-Switch Vulkan anyway. So it's a proprietary extension vs a proprietary API - not much difference.

 

[PrimeBeef]

I'm also hesitant to believe patches can be stored on the game card because I think the cards would be expensive; however, if they don't allow patching on the cards, my hope for decent third party support honestly dwindles a bit because then you are really dealing with some limited storage on board..we just have to wait and see what kind of game cards Nintendo will be using.

I don't think installs will be necessary though? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.



I really feel like this shouldn't be a big issue if it is allowed. You could use an external as a sort of bank. You would be able to keep anywhere from 5-10 (maybe some more) games on the Switch itself, and rotate games whenever you want. It'd be better than constantly re-downloading and deleting.

I picked up an external for my WiiU, Will do the same for my NS if needed.

 

[PrimeBeef]

200+GB Micro SDs were around 40 bucks over the holidays i think?

Yeah not amazing but the prices should keep going down as capacities rise

Forgot about those.

 

[Rodin]

200+GB Micro SDs were around 40 bucks over the holidays i think?

Yeah not amazing but the prices should keep going down as capacities rise

Yeah i paid 50 bucks for a SanDisk Ulra with 90MB/s read speed to use it with the Switch.

 

[Net]

Yeah i paid 50 bucks for a SanDisk Ulra with 90MB/s read speed to use it with the Switch.

Man I wouldn't buy anything before the official features are revealed.

 

[Calm Mind]

Some people would like to go digital only, as they did on Wii U.
e.g. me.

Portable external HDD exist. And if the rumors of the USB-C port on the Switch is correct, I also don't see how this would be a problem.

 

[Rodin]

I was able to talk to someone involved in the development of the soc and they say that api is very custom and people are underestimating the performance gains afforded by it.

Nice to hear. It should be obvious, but after those clockspeeds by DF the downplay about everything is real.

Man I wouldn't buy anything before the official features are revealed.

If for some obscure reason it won't work with the Switch i can still use it with tons of other devices, i just have to choose. Price was too low to pass, it's usually around 90 bucks here.

 

[Takat]

Since it seems like the Switch carts are bigger than 3DS carts and SD cards, could Nintendo offer some sort of big storage solution through those?

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

I am very concerned about the internal storage.

If the rumor of 32GB of internal storage is true. That might be a problem. With Wii U we could use a external drive , but here for Switch , I don’t think that this is an option, mainly considering the console in portable mode.

Nowadays we have big day one patch, or big updates, like Doom had a patch of 29GB, how Switch will handle this ?

By not having Doom.