In that sense, Jungle Beat is no different than Samba de Amigo, Dance Dance Revolution, Taiko no Tatsujin, Shaka de Tambourine, Guitar Freaks, Drum Mania, Beatmania or Para Para Paradise, among others. Each title has its critics and fans, but you can't deny the mechanics of each game, once combined with how they controlled, was something new.drohne said:
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Nintendo To Announce A Yoshi Title For GameCube?
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er...actually it's entirely different. maybe you're not understanding me: using a drum to play a rhythm game is perfectly natural. using a drum to play a platform game is entirely unnatural, and jungle beat's appeal comes from the friction this generates. it'd be like playing an rpg with a lightgun. or a shooter with a steering wheel. or something.
yea, but what if the rpg was designed to be played with the light gun? it's not like they're just tacking bongo compatibility to an already finished game that was meant to be played with a controller.drohne said:er...no, it isn't. maybe you're not understanding me: using a drum to play a rhythm game is perfectly natural. using a drum to play a platform game is entirely unnatural, and jungle beat's appeal comes entirely from this friction. it'd be like playing an rpg with a lightgun. or a shooter with a steering wheel. or something.
edit: have you actually played Jungle Beat drohne?
(that's right folks, another saturday night at home for me)
and i'm not arguing that the bongo control is tacked on. i just wonder whether it's a good idea. after all, the difficulty comes not from making a jump or grabbing a vine, but from making yourself hit both drums to jump, or clap to grab the vine. you're not dealing primarily with game world challenges, but rather with the real world challenge of using weird controls. it's a game about translating game language -- jump, grab, hit -- to drum language -- hit both drums, clap, tap one drum. and honestly i found the e3 demo deeply unpleasant.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Luckily, you're one of a rare few. Most people loved it.
Isn't there just something inherently fun about hitting bongos? Not something I could say about a controller.
N-Sider have a good (and ridiculously late) write up on the E3 demo here http://www.n-sider.com/specialview.php?specialid=1&page=2004/junglebeat and it sounds great. I admit I haven't played it, but just the idea of playing it without the drums makes it so less appealing to me.
How do you know you're not dealing with game world challenges? So the demo was easy, it's just a demo and might well be the first level. And it's only a weird control to us gamers, my mum would have a far easier time using a set of bongos to control a game than a GC controller.
Isn't there just something inherently fun about hitting bongos? Not something I could say about a controller.
N-Sider have a good (and ridiculously late) write up on the E3 demo here http://www.n-sider.com/specialview.php?specialid=1&page=2004/junglebeat and it sounds great. I admit I haven't played it, but just the idea of playing it without the drums makes it so less appealing to me.
How do you know you're not dealing with game world challenges? So the demo was easy, it's just a demo and might well be the first level. And it's only a weird control to us gamers, my mum would have a far easier time using a set of bongos to control a game than a GC controller.
*shrug*drohne said:and i'm not arguing that the bongo control is tacked on. i just wonder whether it's a good idea. after all, the difficulty comes not from making a jump or grabbing a vine, but from making yourself hit both drums to jump, or clap to grab the vine. you're not dealing primarily with game world challenges, but rather with the real world challenge of using weird controls. it's a game about translating game language -- jump, grab, hit -- to drum language -- hit both drums, clap, tap one drum. and honestly i found the e3 demo deeply unpleasant.
to each their own, i guess.
i can see what you're saying, but there's always going to be some degree of interference between any user and their controller. the problem is removing that interference may lessen (or in worse cases, destroy) the challenge that game possesses, like playing DDR with a controller or arrow keys. i personally found jungle beat to be really intuitive once you got the controls down, but then again i'd spent some decent time with donkey konga in the past.
based off my time with the game at E3, i'd like to think that once you adapt to using the bongo (much like how we all have to adapt to a new controller), the challenge will come from the game itself, not using the controller. this won't be true for all people though, some people just won't be able to adapt.
worldrunover
Member
I rather liked Jungle Beat, but I hope Nintendo can keep it fresh enough for an entire game. There are only so many things you can do with four commands.
Mama Smurf said:And it's only a weird control to us gamers, my mum would have a far easier time using a set of bongos to control a game than a GC controller.
i very much doubt that. the bongo controls are counterintuitive by design. they'd be strange to your mum or anyone else. granted, her unfamiliarity with a controller might mean she'd resist the bongo controls less than i would.
and yes, there is something inherently fun about hitting bongos. which is why i encourage you to go out and buy donkey konga. or just some bongos.
could you please explain how the bongo controls are any more counterintuitive to a non-gamer than say a gamecube or xbox controller?drohne said:i very much doubt that. the bongo controls are counterintuitive by design.
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
drohne said:i very much doubt that. the bongo controls are counterintuitive by design. they'd be strange to your mum or anyone else. granted, her unfamiliarity with a controller might mean she'd resist the bongo controls less than i would.
and yes, there is something inherently fun about hitting bongos. which is why i encourage you to go out and buy donkey konga. or just some bongos.
I think the bongos are more approachable because they're not the standard controller. I mean, think about how many buttons the regular controller has - over ten? The konga controller has two! Two! I've seen more older people willing to try it because it looks easier to them.
i can certainly try. though of course i've never approached jungle beat as a non-gamer, so i don't know how true any of my speculation will be.
i can see how a non-gamer might initially struggle with a d-pad and a cluster of buttons more than he might struggle with a couple bongos. but after that initial acclimation period, holding "right" on the d-pad to make a character walk would be easier and would make more sense than repeatedly tapping a bongo.
run a sequence of moves through your head. for example, running, jumping, running a couple more steps, and then attacking an enemy. think of how you'd perform them on a controller, and then think of how donkey konga makes you perform them on a drum. one is manifestly simpler.
i can see how a non-gamer might initially struggle with a d-pad and a cluster of buttons more than he might struggle with a couple bongos. but after that initial acclimation period, holding "right" on the d-pad to make a character walk would be easier and would make more sense than repeatedly tapping a bongo.
run a sequence of moves through your head. for example, running, jumping, running a couple more steps, and then attacking an enemy. think of how you'd perform them on a controller, and then think of how donkey konga makes you perform them on a drum. one is manifestly simpler.
StrikerObi
Member
Heads up kids: If you paly Jungle Beat extremly well, hitting the bongos and clapping meshes into the game's soundtrack. I'm not making that up, one of Nintendo's guys was doing it.
The game is much more approachable and easy to learn to somebody who hasn't played videogames. Think about it this way. If you had never played a videogame in your entire life and you came up to two games:
A) This game is controlled via a standard controller, with two analog sticks, and something like 8 to 12 buttons.
B) This game is controlled by a simple bongo controller, with two buttons and a microphone to pick up the sound of you clapping (basically a third button).
Which would be easier to play? The second one, because there are less controls to learn. It doesn't take almost any time to adust at all to DKJB's controls. I had a rough time the first time I tried, and after that it was smooth sailing. The game is a blast.
The game is much more approachable and easy to learn to somebody who hasn't played videogames. Think about it this way. If you had never played a videogame in your entire life and you came up to two games:
A) This game is controlled via a standard controller, with two analog sticks, and something like 8 to 12 buttons.
B) This game is controlled by a simple bongo controller, with two buttons and a microphone to pick up the sound of you clapping (basically a third button).
Which would be easier to play? The second one, because there are less controls to learn. It doesn't take almost any time to adust at all to DKJB's controls. I had a rough time the first time I tried, and after that it was smooth sailing. The game is a blast.
drohne said:i can certainly try. though of course i've never approached jungle beat as a non-gamer, so i don't know how true any of my speculation will be.
i can see how a non-gamer might initially struggle with a d-pad and a cluster of buttons more than he might struggle with a couple bongos. but after that initial acclimation period, holding "right" on the d-pad to make a character walk would be easier and would make more sense than repeatedly tapping a bongo.
run a sequence of moves through your head. for example, running, jumping, running a couple more steps, and then attacking an enemy. think of how you'd perform them on a controller, and then think of how donkey konga makes you perform them on a drum. one is manifestly simpler.
right right right both right right clap
hold down right on the d-pad, press b, right on d-pad, press a
the only difference here is that you can't just hold down right on the bongo, you have to tap it.
i can see what you're trying to say, but i just don't agree with it.
StrikerObi
Member
drohne said:except that a game like jungle beat wouldn't require two analog sticks and 12 buttons to play; it'd require one analog stick and probably two buttons. even non-gamers can pretty easily pick up an nes game and play it.
But then the game becomes a generic platformer. Plus, the game uses buttons to run, not an analog stick.
What point are you trying to make exactly? That controllers are more simple to use than bongo drums? That's crazy talk.drohne said:except that a game like jungle beat wouldn't require two analog sticks and 12 buttons to play; it'd require one analog stick and probably two buttons. even non-gamers can pretty easily pick up an nes game and play it.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
But they aren't NES controllers. I might agree with you if they were. An analogue stick alone can be hard to control for someone completely unfamiliar with games. Just looking at it would probably put people off.
I don't see that holding down right to go right is anymore intuitive than tapping right anyway. Both have aspects of how we really walk, you could say you walk continuously until you decide to stop, like with a D-pad, or you could say we take step after step after step, like tapping a bongo.
As far as I can tell, most people think the game is more fun due to the bongos. Sure, it might be possible to do it with a controller, but why would you do that if it takes some of the fun away? I mean, if the game's as simple in game as you claim, why else would people be leaving the Jungle Beat demos with big smiles on their faces and writing glowing impressions if it's not the bongos? Kirby's Air Ride got bashed all over the place when that had even simpler controls, only that one was on a controller.
I don't see that holding down right to go right is anymore intuitive than tapping right anyway. Both have aspects of how we really walk, you could say you walk continuously until you decide to stop, like with a D-pad, or you could say we take step after step after step, like tapping a bongo.
As far as I can tell, most people think the game is more fun due to the bongos. Sure, it might be possible to do it with a controller, but why would you do that if it takes some of the fun away? I mean, if the game's as simple in game as you claim, why else would people be leaving the Jungle Beat demos with big smiles on their faces and writing glowing impressions if it's not the bongos? Kirby's Air Ride got bashed all over the place when that had even simpler controls, only that one was on a controller.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Ok, but if we're just getting down to personal preferences, we can't really take the discussion any further (except for the drunk thing, that should work well). Then it'll just come down to:
"I don't like it."
"Everyone else who played it seemed to."
Repeat.
"I don't like it."
"Everyone else who played it seemed to."
Repeat.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Donkey Konga rules.
Jungle Beat even moreso.
Damn its fun. Really, I feel sorry for someone who didn't have fun playing it, because it is the most fun I have had playing games in such a long time. I constantly demo Konga to people at my store, and I'm even going to run a contest the weekend after it comes out.
I've had a few people just bang on the drums in confusion, because they were unwilling to read before the game started and said "This is stupid" but then I showed them how to play, and I'll be damned if they didn't all say "Wow, that's awesome."
I hope Nintendo packs a demo of Jungle Beat in with Konga.
I mean hey, if you don't like it, don't find it to your workings, that's cool. I don't doubt there are other people who think the same way. Thing is, I've seen a lot of people turned on by these drums, and I applaud everyone involved in bringing them to us.
Jungle Beat even moreso.
Damn its fun. Really, I feel sorry for someone who didn't have fun playing it, because it is the most fun I have had playing games in such a long time. I constantly demo Konga to people at my store, and I'm even going to run a contest the weekend after it comes out.
I've had a few people just bang on the drums in confusion, because they were unwilling to read before the game started and said "This is stupid" but then I showed them how to play, and I'll be damned if they didn't all say "Wow, that's awesome."
I hope Nintendo packs a demo of Jungle Beat in with Konga.
I mean hey, if you don't like it, don't find it to your workings, that's cool. I don't doubt there are other people who think the same way. Thing is, I've seen a lot of people turned on by these drums, and I applaud everyone involved in bringing them to us.
Unfortunately, I couldn't get much time with DKJB at E3. I played the boss fight and first level, but that was on the first day before anyone had any real impressions of the game and while everyone who was going to the Nintendo booth was going to see the DS or other games. The two days after it was impossible for me to play.
Now, into the fire I go: What I and I think others enjoyed about the controls was that it feels much more interactive than using a controller since you're actually moving your arms constantly and clapping. I actually didn't know about the music thing, so there's an added bonus there too since you help parts of the game by how well you do.
I don't think this game would have ever used just the controller as it is (meaning using the analog stick and buttons to move and jump), since it would be pretty generic. Instead, Nintendo probably would have opted to include more elements to the DK world to help raise the level of enjoyment in the game if it were to stay a sidescroller.
Now, into the fire I go: What I and I think others enjoyed about the controls was that it feels much more interactive than using a controller since you're actually moving your arms constantly and clapping. I actually didn't know about the music thing, so there's an added bonus there too since you help parts of the game by how well you do.
I don't think this game would have ever used just the controller as it is (meaning using the analog stick and buttons to move and jump), since it would be pretty generic. Instead, Nintendo probably would have opted to include more elements to the DK world to help raise the level of enjoyment in the game if it were to stay a sidescroller.
AniHawk said:I don't think this game would have ever used just the controller as it is (meaning using the analog stick and buttons to move and jump), since it would be pretty generic. Instead, Nintendo probably would have opted to include more elements to the DK world to help raise the level of enjoyment in the game if it were to stay a sidescroller.
Supposedly, Jungle Beat began its life as a regular "I use a standard controller" platformer. During a staff meeting, the bongos were presented to various Nintendo development teams, and the group behind Jungle Beat had the idea to use that instead of the controller. Within a few hours, they had it all playing via the bongos and it was such a blast that they opted to fully support the bongos and modified the game design accordingly (This was pretty early in the game's development, probably last summer or so.)