*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)

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spirity said:
Bear in mind, we've mostly seen Sansa being abused. On the rare occasion that isn't happening, she's being snotty to her handmaiden. I don't think she'll come out of this (if she does come out of it) a better person. Stronger, yeah.
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I think even her most recent dialogue with the handmaiden is rather understandable.

Yeah she still acts entitled, but she just came from a dinner where she is getting to a breaking point of what seemed like near suicidal depression brought on by such a horribly cruel situation with seemingly little hope and no way out.....I mean you are basically forced to eventually father a child of your own fathers killer and marry into a family that wants to kill your family and has nothing but disdain and cruelty in store for you for the rest of your life.

In some ways she's still an ass, in other ways she has become my most sympathetic character. Such a horrible, horrible situation to live in.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
This is true, but I think it's understandable she's taking her anger out on anyone BUT Joffrey when she's so close to being killed every day.

She has so little control in her life now that I think she's a bitch to the people she can be just to feel like she has some form of control.

If she does survive it will be interesting to see how her character develops though, I agree.
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Fair point (to Jonm1010 too).

If she comes out of it (and I do hope she does, because anyone that goes on this sort of journey has to, it'd be too tragic if they didn't) I'm betting she kills Joffrey. I know I have him as an avatar but I think he's a shit too, and the viewing figures for that episode, if they build up to it, will be through the fucking roof. If I can go into GoT fanboy mode, he's a masterclass in villainy, and I doubt we've seen the 'best' of him yet.
 
I agree. I said yesterday he might be the best TV villain ever and, after thinking about it some more, I'm going to say he IS the best TV villain ever. After one season!

Sansa killing him seems to be the most likely thing to happen. I'd like to see Tyrian do it but he doesn't have it in him. It would be cool to see Tyrian help Sansa in some way though, especially after the last episode where he saw her abuse and his whores got abused. He's going to be furious next week.
 
I almost feel a bit of sympathy for Joffrey. This is a teenager who's been brought up in the lap of luxury with no experience of the 'real world', whose father gave him no attention and whose mother was too busy fucking her relatives to teach him how to behave properly. He lives in a savage world, sees savage things happening, and responds savagely.

Yes, I hate him for what he did to Ned and continues to do to Sansa, but his current self is likely to be almost entirely a product of his upbringing!
 
blahblah...blah said:
I almost feel a bit of sympathy for Joffrey. This is a teenager who's been brought up in the lap of luxury with no experience of the 'real world', whose father gave him no attention and whose mother was too busy fucking her relatives to teach him how to behave properly. He lives in a savage world, sees savage things happening, and responds savagely.

Yes, I hate him for what he did to Ned and continues to do to Sansa, but his current self is likely to be almost entirely a product of his upbringing!
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His siblings seem like somewhat normal human beings.

Joffrey is a right cunt.
 
blahblah...blah said:
I almost feel a bit of sympathy for Joffrey. This is a teenager who's been brought up in the lap of luxury with no experience of the 'real world', whose father gave him no attention and whose mother was too busy fucking her relatives to teach him how to behave properly. He lives in a savage world, sees savage things happening, and responds savagely.

Yes, I hate him for what he did to Ned and continues to do to Sansa, but his current self is likely to be almost entirely a product of his upbringing!
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But his siblings are cool.
 
I think it's partly his upbringing, but it's more than that. He's just a pyschopath. I get the sense he'd be like this no matter what his upbringing was like, at least to a certain degree.
 
Fair point regarding the younger siblings, but (a) they're younger and therefore less likely to exhibit the negative behaviours we see from Joffrey, (b) they were never groomed to be rulers, which he so obviously was, and this in turn skewed his perspectives on everything.
 
man of science said:
Renly has NO claim. I don't understand his support. His best argument was "Nobody likes Stannis."
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That's a pretty good reason. No one takes Stannis seriously which should play a role in who is king. Renly is the political angle. Of course, this was all before smokey shadow baby killer assassin
man of science said:
Him and Sansa need to bite it for being such shit siblings and going against their own houses.
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Sansa is very much a rock in a hard place. I feel sorry for her and only disliked her briefly when she was actually acting her age and dreaming of beng a princess like most little girls. I just wish she had sacrificed herself and killed Joffrey when she had the chance (Or looked like she had the chance.)
 
JGS said:
That's a pretty good reason. No one takes Stannis seriously which should play a role in who is king. Renly is the political angle. Of course, this was all before smokey shadow baby killer assassin
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It's all fun and games until smokey shadow baby killer assassins ruin everything.
 
Really enjoyed this last episode. All Tyrion does is Winning! Can't get enough of his posturing with the less scrupulous members on the council and other characters of influence. Makes my confidence grow that he'll pull through but I worry a bit as he tests Joffrey's temperament. His personal guard (forget his name) better stay vigilant.

The rat torture was crazy and the pairing of Arya with Tywin should be awesome. Was satisfying when he slighted his guards and commented on their intellect. I wonder how long she'll be able to conceal her identity from him. Really curious to see where Arya ultimately ends up. I just hope her wolf, Summer? will return to her one day, maybe a timely entry to save her life or something.

It will be interesting to see who gets the pleasure of ending Joffrey's life. Surely it has to happen by the end of this season if there are a bunch of Kings about to duke it out. I'm guessing Sansa will get a surprise attack in. I'm probably on my own in saying that I still can't stand Sansa and while I can sympathize with her situation, I can't completely with her, that's how much I dislike her. Nothing can redeem her for me, not even killing Joffrey. Her and her mother are insufferable and I hope they both get an untimely demise.

Renly SHOULD make an easy way of things with the size of his army but he knows nothing of war and relies heavily on others. Stannis is the opposite and has too few a numbers to be a serious threat which is why this shadow creature will surely be a beast on the battle field or at least be some sort of massive trump card. Clearly the witch is for real. I don't like her personality but I doubt she'll live in the long run. I'm curious to see if she'll truly aid Stannis and settle for being his queen or something along those lines, or if she will use the shadow creature to over take him and make a bid for the thrown herself. It's kind of weird having these fantasy elements thrown in this season. The show has largely stayed in the realm of fairly realistic medieval times up to this point but between this shadow creature, the dragons, and a likely greater focus on white walkers with Snow's plot line, the series is morphing. I liked how things were progressing without these elements so I hope the more fantastical aspects are done well and will feel natural. It's still early on in the series so the identity of the show can still bend in different places.
 
Fuzzy said:
Bronn.

Robb's wolf = Grey Wind
Sansa's wolf = Lady (Ned killed it)
Arya's wolf = Nymeria
Bran's wolf = Summer
Rickon's wolf = Shaggy Dog
Jon's wolf = Ghost
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Bronn, that's right. Thanks.

I almost said I think Summer is Bran's but I couldn't remember what the heck Arya's was called.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
I agree. I said yesterday he might be the best TV villain ever and, after thinking about it some more, I'm going to say he IS the best TV villain ever. After one season!

Sansa killing him seems to be the most likely thing to happen. I'd like to see Tyrian do it but he doesn't have it in him. It would be cool to see Tyrian help Sansa in some way though, especially after the last episode where he saw her abuse and his whores got abused. He's going to be furious next week.
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Maybe he lives? Him and Arya have a fight to the pain!
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
Arya is my favourite character, so if she fucks Joffrey up it would be the greatest thing the show would ever do!
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Well, she's kicked his butt before...

I think Joffrey is going to alienate himself even from the Lannisters before long. The only one on his side right now is his mom
 
I hope that they dont take the easy way out. It would be satisfying for Arya to beat the crap out of Joffrey. A character everyone loves kills a character everyone hates. What could be more satisfying? I, on the other hand, want the stakes to be raised. Lets see Joffrey go on a little rampage. Lets ratchet up the hatred even more.
 
JGS said:
Well, she's kicked his butt before...

I think Joffrey is going to alienate himself even from the Lannisters before long. The only one on his side right now is his mom
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That was when he was just a brat now. He's a completely different person now. I want her to have a sword fight with him and totally fuck him up :)
 
man of science said:
I'm still bitter from Season 1. She should have died instead of Lady.
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good man, I like the way you think

Squall ASF said:
I'm probably on my own in saying that I still can't stand Sansa and while I can sympathize with her situation, I can't completely with her, that's how much I dislike her. Nothing can redeem her for me, not even killing Joffrey. Her and her mother are insufferable and I hope they both get an untimely demise.
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you are not alone
 
JGS said:
That's a pretty good reason. No one takes Stannis seriously which should play a role in who is king. Renly is the political angle. Of course, this was all before smokey shadow baby killer assassin
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I don't think that's a good reason. I mean, he's going to be King of the entire land and rule over all Lords, he's not really dealing with other Kings, politics doesn't play a strong enough role here. He knows how to play his role as a leader, he knows how to delegate etc etc. Renly is just a jealous brother who has done fuck all to prove himself other than suck some dick.

EDIT:Also, it's not that people take Stannis seriously, its that Stannis is too serious which is why people don't like him, but that shouldn't be enough to keep him from his rightful throne.
 
Sajjaja said:
I don't think that's a good reason. I mean, he's going to be King of the entire land and rule over all Lords, he's not really dealing with other Kings, politics doesn't play a strong enough role here. He knows how to play his role as a leader, he knows how to delegate etc etc. Renly is just a jealous brother who has done fuck all to prove himself other than suck some dick.
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The show is mostly about politics. The alliances are loosely held together and if no one wants Stannis as a king he won't be.

The war itself will prove his fitness for the role but considering he played no role in governing and isolated himself on an island, it matters a great deal.

He may be a better king and first in line but Renly being overwhelmingly more popular plays a part.
 
Feudal politics is all about forging personal relationships with your peers and vassals. Stannis has few friends and isn't well liked, while Renly is more charismatic and has been able to forge alliances.
 
I just started watching this show, and I have a general comment.

And yes, I am aware it's based on a series of books.

Characters on this show are constantly in fear for their lives. They starve and are butchered at the hands of tyrants and supernatural beasts. Most of the characters carry on with a very bleak existence.

My impression of fantasy stories has always been that mortal characters are more resilient because they have to oppose magic and fantastic creatures.
 
Speevy said:
I just started watching this show, and I have a general comment.

And yes, I am aware it's based on a series of books.

Characters on this show are constantly in fear for their lives. They starve and are butchered at the hands of tyrants and supernatural beasts. Most of the characters carry on with a very bleak existence.

My impression of fantasy stories has always been that mortal characters are more resilient because they have to oppose magic and fantastic creatures.
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The fantasy books you have read have been bad.
 
Sajjaja said:
I don't think that's a good reason. I mean, he's going to be King of the entire land and rule over all Lords, he's not really dealing with other Kings, politics doesn't play a strong enough role here. He knows how to play his role as a leader, he knows how to delegate etc etc. Renly is just a jealous brother who has done fuck all to prove himself other than suck some dick.

EDIT:Also, it's not that people take Stannis seriously, its that Stannis is too serious which is why people don't like him, but that shouldn't be enough to keep him from his rightful throne.
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On top of what JGS mentioned, think about the words "rightful throne." He sent out that letter to everyone in the country, yet he's struggling to field an army (resorting to unsavory types like pirates and Melisandre)... and even if every single person in the kingdom believed that Joffrey was not the rightful king, then undoubtedly Stannis should be king, right? Yet here stands Renly with an incredible force of a 100,000 strong behind him.

This theme is repeated again and again this season... power is not in words, or religion, or military might... power resides in those who the people perceive have power.
 
walbertsmith said:
On top of what JGS mentioned, think about the words "rightful throne." He sent out that letter to everyone in the country, yet he's struggling to field an army (resorting to unsavory types like pirates and Melisandre)... and even if every single person in the kingdom believed that Joffrey was not the rightful king, then undoubtedly Stannis should be king, right? Yet here stands Renly with an incredible force of a 100,000 strong behind him.

This theme is repeated again and again this season... power is not in words, or religion, or military might... power resides in those who the people perceive have power.
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But the theme is not that simple, the theme is that different people have different ideas on what power is and it still remains to be seen who's right.

So far this season we have seen:

Littlefinger: Knowledge is Power.
Cersei: Power is Power.
Varys: Power is an illusion.
Dany: Power is in her Dragons.
Renly: Power is in having friends.
Mellisandre: Power is in the supernatural.

Who's right, and who's wrong? I think Cersei is clearly wrong. But all the other answers are probably correct to an extent.
 
I was about to fap to the red head, but then she unbuttoned her robe...

I came without having to fap


no serious, she's hot.
 
Fuzzy said:
Bronn.

Robb's wolf = Grey Wind
Sansa's wolf = Lady (Ned killed it)
Arya's wolf = Nymeria
Bran's wolf = Summer
Rickon's wolf = Shaggy Dog
Jon's wolf = Ghost
Click to expand...

Interesting that Sansa's wolf is the only wolf that is dead. Almost like she is not a Stark anymore.

She can redeem herself in my eyes, if she loses that childish spoilt streak and Joffrey is doing his best at beating that out of her. I think we'll see a new Sansa by the end of the season.
 
Last Hearth said:
But the theme is not that simple, the theme is that different people have different ideas on what power is and it still remains to be seen who's right.

So far this season we have seen:

Littlefinger: Knowledge is Power.
Cersei: Power is Power.
Varys: Power is an illusion.
Dany: Power is in her Dragons.
Renly: Power is in having friends.
Mellisandre: Power is in the supernatural.

Who's right, and who's wrong? I think Cersei is clearly wrong. But all the other answers are probably correct to an extent.
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You're just proving my point... it's the perception that counts, regardless on where the bearer believes is the source of their power. (You're also forgetting Robb, whose power comes from people that literally thrust it upon him; he was not seeking it originally)

Look at the post that I originally replied to... he was adamant that Stannis was in the right, and Renly was in the wrong (which we know is entirely inaccurate).
 
Sajjaja said:
I don't think that's a good reason. I mean, he's going to be King of the entire land and rule over all Lords, he's not really dealing with other Kings, politics doesn't play a strong enough role here. He knows how to play his role as a leader, he knows how to delegate etc etc. Renly is just a jealous brother who has done fuck all to prove himself other than suck some dick.

EDIT:Also, it's not that people take Stannis seriously, its that Stannis is too serious which is why people don't like him, but that shouldn't be enough to keep him from his rightful throne.
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I just think that both sides have a legitimate reason. If you are only going by heir then Stannis is right or Joffrey since he is the one the previous king willed to be king or Dany since she was the rightful heir to a the king before Robert took the throne. Kingship in this realm seems to be best described as whoever wins it. Politics.

In this instance, if you are going by perception, it's clear that everyone except for Ned and Stannis think Renly is the best fit for king of the realm.

Should there be a revolution over it considering there are already 2 brewing? I would say no since Stannis was only interested in the kingdom up to the point that he would be king. When it didn't appear like this would be possible he cared nothing about the kingdom and the people know that. However, that's just one side of the issue
 
JGS said:
Sansa is very much a rock in a hard place. I feel sorry for her and only disliked her briefly when she was actually acting her age and dreaming of beng a princess like most little girls. I just wish she had sacrificed herself and killed Joffrey when she had the chance (Or looked like she had the chance.)
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She had it coming. No sympathy for her. Given where she's from and her family, there's no reason for her to behave like a spoiled wanna-be-princess brat.
 
Raist said:
She had it coming. No sympathy for her. Given where she's from and her family, there's no reason for her to behave like a spoiled wanna-be-princess brat.
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She acted like that for a half of the first season. I've seen nothing like that now.
 
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
 
MeshuggahMan said:
The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
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Why, yes, it's perfectly reasonable to make this post without adding pics of yourself.
 
MeshuggahMan said:
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
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Take it as a compliment that you resemble the hottest GoT character. :P
 
MeshuggahMan said:
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
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Do you happen to be the professional starcraft 2 player, Destiny?

destiny-starcraft.jpg
 
MeshuggahMan said:
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
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Pics.

of your girlfriend
 
MeshuggahMan said:
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
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Has your gf offered to ask her brother to join you guys?
 
MeshuggahMan said:
Girlfriend and I got caught up on season 2 thus far. Had to catch her up on season 1 first. We must be the only people who thought the end of episode 4 was cheesy.. but whatever.

The biggest problem we have.. is that renly looks EXACTLY like me. not when he had the short hair.. but the second he has that longer hair and a beard he is literally an exact replica of me. I've had numerous people already ask if I'm him. it makes it really hard to pay attention during his scenes because we just laugh at how alike he looks hahah. Its downright creepy.
Click to expand...

I just hope your best friend does not look like Loras, Girlfriend could start to grow suspicious ;)
 
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