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*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)
- Thread starter Cornballer
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To me she's even better. She can't hep but be nice to people now - like the fool in the opening episode whose life was spared because she spoke up.
Her handmaiden is horrible since she isn't really one and she gives her a chance. Facing reality in that world has brought out her Ned qualities.
Well of course, now that shit's hitting the fan for her. Because she's incredibly selfish. As long as her goal was to be the princess and have Joffrey's beautiful baaaaabies, she wouldn't give a shit about other people. She betrayed her father and her sister.
She should have figured out that Cersei was a bitch the second she asked for a wolf's life in retribution for joffrey's wound. But nooooo. The queen is awesome and her son is soooo nice. Everything that happens to her now is a result of her stupidity and complete blindness. She's so remotely different from her siblings and parents, I don't think there's any reasonable justification for her behaviour.
Basileus777
Member
Sansa was selfish, naive, and bratty, but how is anything her fault? Her father made all the decisions that doomed him and his daughters. Now she's a prisoner that has to put on a show or Joffrey will do even worse to her. She has no control in her life, I can't hate her for being rude to a fake-maid.
MeshuggahMan
Member
Haha I knew pic requests would be coming. I'm at work atm and on my phone (new mobile gaf rocks). Ill provide pictures later when I'm home. We've been trying to find a crown like his to put on me for comparison pics. It really is funny when he makes out with the guy though. She has to look away and screams "WHY ARE YOU MAKING OUT WITH A GUY AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!"
Burger King crown will do.
Forsaken82
Member
Her naivety is what got Ned caught.
It's not about figuring out stuff. That was the King's order and she wasn't about to argue with them (Neither did Ned).
She was a spoiled brat treated like a princess (Arya was too but she is a tomboy) and once reality set in, she grew up quick (I mean real quick) and also gained humanity.
I honestly blame Catlyn for most (I also think Cercei had Robert killed though). I still feel sorry for her since everything she does is for family, but it was a horrible idea to go all vigilante justice on Tyrion.
Basileus777
Member
In the TV show? How?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
It's extremely hard to assign blame to any one person for the late events of season 1. In the end, there's actually almost no characters who aren't to blame (which, I think, is probably the point). Ned, obviously, was stubborn and naive in just about every way. Cat captured Tyrion, without which Jaime wouldn't have attacked Ned in the streets. Then again, if Robert hadn't insisted on having Dany killed, Ned wouldn't have quit his position as Hand, and Jaime probably wouldn't have attacked him. Littlefinger directly betrayed Ned, but then again that was only after Ned ignored all of his hints about how to act. There was obviously some foul play involved with Robert's death, and obviously if he hadn't been killed none of this would have happened. So really the point is that almost all the characters are to blame to some extent.
Forsaken82
Member
She told Cersei about her father's plans to send Arya and Sansa back to winterfell because she thought she was in love with Joffrey and it would be the right thing to do. She didn't think of the consequences that would follow. This was episode 6 or 7 I believe of season 1.
Basileus777
Member
Forsaken82
Member
No, it is definitely in the show. I watched season 1 on multiple occasions. it is DEFINITELY in the show. It is the episode after Ned goes through the book and realizes all the Baratheon born are black of hair. The following episode Ned tells Sansa and Arya to pack and that they are going back to Winterfell. Sansa then relays this information to Cersei because she doesn't want to leave and wants to stay with Joffrey. She doesn't know the real reason why her father is being sent away so she doesn't know any better. I want to say it is Episode 7 (since that is the episode that ends with his capture)
IAmtheFMan
Member
Hahaha, that was like something outta Phoenix Wright.
Book readers should just keep their mouths shut in this thread.
EDIT: nope it's not in the show. Watch "The Pointy End" again (you know, the ep Martin wrote himself.)
Book readers should just keep their mouths shut in this thread.
EDIT: nope it's not in the show. Watch "The Pointy End" again (you know, the ep Martin wrote himself.)
The Lamonster
Member
It's definitely in the show.
Forsaken82
Member
Pointy End is episode 9... like i said, I am pretty sure it happens in episode 7. If you don't think im right than rewatch the fucking episode. This isn't a book only spoiler.
IAmtheFMan
Member
There's a scene where Sansa meets with the queen, Pycelle and Varys but they never acknowledge that Sansa had anything to go with giving up Ned's plan. If anything Sansa in the show seems sidelined by everything.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think it is. It's not mentioned in any summary I can find and in fact Westeros.org's analysis explicitly mentions how it's not in the show.
Cornballer
Member
Once again, there's no reason to be having a debate between multiple book readers in this thread. I know that you guys mean well, but this is becoming increasingly problematic and distracting in this thread (not to mention that things are occasionally being spoiled.) Please leave these sorts of conversations for the other thread and stop posting in here. Thank you.
SPOILER RULES:
- ABSOLUTELY NO BOOK SPOILERS. It doesn't matter if they're under spoiler tags, they should not be in this thread. Use the other thread for book-related television discussion. This includes alluding to things, subtle hinting, comparing the books to the show, etc...
- Regular TV thread rules apply:
- Once something airs in the US on the East Coast, it's fair game. Feel free to discuss anything that has aired without using spoiler tags.
- Anything that hasn't aired yet should be spoiler tagged including information from HBO previews, loglines, trailers, interviews, and a few other places.
- Speculation from people that haven't read the books is fine and encouraged.
- For the non-book readers using this thread:
- If you have any questions about plot points or want clarification on something, feel free to send a PM to any of the helpful volunteers (see below) and ask them.
- If you're curious about how things unfolded differently the book, please use the other thread.
- For the book readers that want to lurk in this thread:
- No taunting or teasing:
e.g. "Oh, just wait until you guys see what happens to him next week!!!"- No leading questions:
e.g. "What do you think will happen to this character by the end of the season?"- No comparing the book to the show:
e.g. "Well, that's different than in the book where they..."- Answering questions is fine when the information is readily available from what has aired on the show.
e.g. Q: "Wait, how is Robb related to Ned?" A: "Robb is Ned's son."
The bottom line is that this thread was created for people that haven't read the books to enjoy and discuss the television show. Keep their interests in mind and let them enjoy the show on their own terms without constantly pestering them. In general, there isn't a good reason for book readers to post in this thread. Thanks for your help.
I think Sansa is the one who verifies her Dad's treachery on the basis of it saving his life and preventing war with the North. Obviously she didn't think Joffrey was the little punk that he was, but by the finale of last seasn, that clearly changed.
Also, there is no way that Joffrey and her are getting married so I kinda wish they would let go of that plotline. I guess they still need her to say Robb is a traitor, but on that point I understand the lingering hatred for her- that she simply won't sacrifice herself in the name of family honor.
Also, there is no way that Joffrey and her are getting married so I kinda wish they would let go of that plotline. I guess they still need her to say Robb is a traitor, but on that point I understand the lingering hatred for her- that she simply won't sacrifice herself in the name of family honor.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Pointy end is 8. Baelor is 9, and You Win or You Die is 7. Either name the scene in the ep where it happens or let it go.
Basileus777
Member
We were having a discussion about Sansa and there was some confusion about whether a scene existed in the show or not. I'm sorry, but was I supposed to pretend he wasn't making an assumption based on something outside the show? Nothing even resembling spoilers was discussed and we were talking about the content of the actual TV show...
Forsaken82
Member
I could hardly remember the specific scene, but you are right pointy end is 8. That is my fault. but the scene is definitely in the show and yeah Im done arguing it until someone rewatches it and proves me wrong.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Thank you. I feel like this thread should be treated as if the books don't exist at all and the show's writers are making up the stories as they go along.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This scene does not exist in Episode 7. I just fastforwarded through it and saw no scene of Sansa approaching Cersei. It's possible that it's referenced indirectly in dialog at some point but I do not think so. Sansa and Arya are told that they are leaving King's Landing at the end of episode 6, and are not seen again that episode. Therefore this scene, if it exists, must be in episode 7, and it isn't.
I agree, but Basileus and I are not the problem here. The problem is people who intentionally spoil things, don't understand the rules, or cannot keep track of the series well enough to not balls it up. I don't think my (limited) contribution to this thread has ever been unfair to the non-readers here as I don't speak about the plot going forward, only backward. I don't think banning readers from this thread is the right solution, but punishing those who ruin it for others should be.
Forsaken82
Member
If this is the case than fine. Ill even do everyone a favor and just not post in this thread any more since I clearly can't get the show straight from the book.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Hey guys, I know Game of Thrones is a little unusual case in terms of book discussion and spoilers, but I'd really appreciate it if everyone participating in the thread took the time to make sure they weren't contributing to book-related discussion or derails. Like Cornballer just mentioned, really, but my name is red so hopefully people will pay attention to this.
In the future, I recommend anyone in-thread to PM me book-related posts and I'll delete them from the thread.
I know most of the stuff is not really an intentional distraction or harmful so it's not the kind of thing where we'd be looking at bans or punishments, just thread clean-up.
In the future, I recommend anyone in-thread to PM me book-related posts and I'll delete them from the thread.
I know most of the stuff is not really an intentional distraction or harmful so it's not the kind of thing where we'd be looking at bans or punishments, just thread clean-up.
Basileus777
Member
Eh, that wasn't knowingly violated. Forsaken probably mistakenly thought a scene was in the show and was corrected.
Forsaken82
Member
Both the show and the book are clearly fresh in my mind still since its only been like a year a year since I read the first book. But thats fine, ill focus my comments to the other thread. I meant know disrespect to non readers.
Just ask yourself "What would Stannis do?" then shorten their fingers.
blahblah...blah
Member
I still don't understand why we didn't go for the blanket policy: the books have never existed, this is a TV show, and any references to the 'things that don't exist' is utterly unwanted here.
If like me you are interested in a podcast to listen to after watching the latest episodes, but want to avoid being spoiled by anything from the novels that have yet to occur, I can recommend the following:
A Cast of Kings
Its co-hosted by one who has read all the novels, and another who hasn't, so there are some interesting comparisons made regarding changes from the source material (and some downright bizarre ones), but they promise never to go beyond what has currently been aired, which also excludes any teasers for the following week.
A Cast of Kings
Its co-hosted by one who has read all the novels, and another who hasn't, so there are some interesting comparisons made regarding changes from the source material (and some downright bizarre ones), but they promise never to go beyond what has currently been aired, which also excludes any teasers for the following week.
Seriously, this is what makes the most sense. Only discussion about stuff shown on the TV show, but also including whatever content HBO decides to release to help viewers as well (like the map and character guides, ect).
walbertsmith
Member
This *is* the policy. It always devolves though when someone inevitably inquires about backstory then others chime in trying to help.... hence the need for Cornballer to step in with the copy/paste of the policy pretty much every single page.
Honestly, people just don't read.... or they don't subscribe and miss the repeated warnings... or they do subscribe and miss out on the cutoff or whatever.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
That's been the policy since sometime last season. The problem has been that since Amir0x was demodded, there is no enforcement for this rule. With Stump's post in here though, hopefully that has changed now.
The thing that makes little sense is the other thread is supported so much more and it really does a good job of keeping spoilers to a minimum- even better than here.
I like both threads and hopefully they don't block me in the other one.
Maybe copy and paste some good points from this thread over to that one to make fun of us.
I like both threads and hopefully they don't block me in the other one.
Maybe copy and paste some good points from this thread over to that one to make fun of us.
blahblah...blah
Member
I never actually read the policy that's quoted everywhere, good to know that in theory it should stop stuff like that. If we expect the book readers to stay away from commenting in this thread, then it's only fair that we should also show enough restraint to not need to ask a book reader about every little confusing thing (e.g. The Brotherhood). If we treat the books as non-existent, then there's nobody to ask about this stuff, so don't. Just wait and see.
And for fuck's sake, if you've read the books and want to impress a bunch of random people on the internet by pretending you're just a TV viewer and miraculously 'guess' all the upcoming plot twists, find something more productive to do with your life.
And for fuck's sake, if you've read the books and want to impress a bunch of random people on the internet by pretending you're just a TV viewer and miraculously 'guess' all the upcoming plot twists, find something more productive to do with your life.
Other thread is mostly safe, but all the same, non-readers should avoid it since occasionally, someone does slip up, or unintentionally confirms a character is alive at a certain point in the books, like:
X character was awesome this episode, can't wait till he (5th book)
sticks his penis in Ros' butt.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
nm. Man, I suck at reading today.
Going by just what they've shown on the show, who else is available right now for Joffery marry that would better serve Cersei's/Tywin's purposes?
Anyway, ya I don't get all of the hate for Sansa. Like Arya, she is a survivor (the last Direwolf in the Lion's den) and is valiantly using the courtesy and graces she was taught to ward off additional danger. Unlike Arya, who is surrounded by and has the opportunity to create new allies with the future purpose of improving her situation, Sansa is a prison where she is the only prisoner and has almost no meaningful chance at all to escape or subvert things when surrounded by the highly experience players at court and their saturated networks of spies. Also, as viewers of the story, we tend to forget that as far as Westeros is concerned, the longer Arya is missing the greater chance she could very well be dead. Even in reality, Arya, for all her badassness, has been in many more situations where she could have been killed. I mean what if she had picked earlier for interrogation or she had the broken leg and not Lommy when they were captured? GRRM's world is extremely deadly and not that Joffery's court is completely safe, but taken in total, who's survival decisions seem to be much less risky and giving them a better chance to survive to eventually get some payback? Furthermore, I don't understand the lingering hatred for her as she couldn't sacrifice herself even if she wanted to as she is the only thing that could extricate Jaime for Cersei - Joffery's death means that Tommen would get bumped up and Sansa might be betrothed to him.
/rant on irrational/emotional Sansa hate
Mercury Fred
Banned
Jeez, don't get so defensive. I wasn't singling out any one poster.
I've had some key stuff in the series spoiled for me in this thread by book readers and it was a major bummer. I really wish they'd stay out of the thread. And yes, I think it's perfectly fine to be "deprived" of the detail-clarifying wisdom of those who have read the book. If people are that desperate for answers, they can go to the other thread ffs.
Sansa would have been the best fit if Joffrey wasn't a psycho that destroyed peace between him & the North. I think it would be in Sansa's best interest to still marry him survival wise. However, I think Joffrey will kill her the moment they win so it's a moot point.
Joffrey has always thought that his army would win against the North and doesn't understand or care about the political stakes of what he's done.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Or they can simply PM me and the other posters mentioned in the OP. It's really unfortunately that so many book readers seem to have to regard for people who are new to the series.
I think the stuff like the discussion that just happened on earlier plot points is fine, from the standpoint of someone who hasn't gone through the books yet, though I know it's still totally against the rules of this thread (as it should be).
The worst, most damaging spoilers by far are the ones hidden under the guise of "speculation." And I feel like there was a fairly major one revealed in this thread after this last ep ended.
The worst, most damaging spoilers by far are the ones hidden under the guise of "speculation." And I feel like there was a fairly major one revealed in this thread after this last ep ended.
blahblah...blah
Member
Bearing in mind I haven't read the books, but did read some speculation, was it regarding the objectives of the shadowy cunt monster? (i.e.
one person said possibly impregnating and killing Renly's wife
In any case, I think that even allowing discussion of how the show differed from the books in the past could be problematic, as in some cases there are very deliberate reasons that the creators of the show have made the changes they have, and highlighting these differences might make certain twists in the future more obvious.
Squall ASF
Member
What? Sansa put herself in that prison, she's not a victim of circumstance. She had a preview of what Joffrey was like during that incident with Arya and the butcher's son. She should have listened to her father and went back home. She was so incredibly selfish and obsessed with becoming an eventual Queen that she was willing to screw her family over in the process. She's a victim now because Joffrey now sees her as an object and she isn't treated as well by the Lannisters as before.That doesn't change the fact that she's the one that pushed to be with Joffrey in the first place. Her naivety is what put her in this prison. Arya saw right through that douche's facade. No one put her in this situation but herself. The sacrifice people are talking about is when she had a chance to grab Joffrey and throw the two of them off that high ledge in Season 1.
There's nothing irrational about hate for Sansa. She's a selfish bitch that trampled her family's wishes and now she sleeps in the bed she made. Of course she is coming off kinder now, not only did they kill her father, but the Lannisters are treating her like shit. Everything didn't turn out the way she thought and only after getting screwed out of her fantasy land does she show any form of compassion. It's only due to circumstance which is evidenced by how she treated her 'hand maiden', Shae.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Man, if you've read the fucking books (like me) don't post in this thread. Easy. Read it, be entertained, but don't post in it. How hard is that? What the hell guys. If you absolutely have to respond to a non-book reader's post, go to one of the other three ASOIAF threads and say "tee hee poster X thinx Jon's mom is Hodor" where Poster X can't see you. Stop being dummies.
The recent responses were to correct someone who had mixed up something from the book and show. It was also about season one.
Of course, it would have been better if readers did not join in speculation or specifics about characters at all in the first place. Leave that for the other thread.
Of course, it would have been better if readers did not join in speculation or specifics about characters at all in the first place. Leave that for the other thread.
Well I was thinking of something else also related to the ending, and which was stated so matter-of-factly that it has me wondering. I'm not gonna specify it just in case.
But I guess now we're getting into dangerous territory, heh. Speculating on speculation being spoilery or not, and intentional or not, is like some neverending cycle. That's the big problem with it - if a certain thing turns out to be true, you can't really tell whether or not a person was just guessing or actually knew something.
Spoilery "speculation" isn't just a problem with Game of Thrones; it's been an issue in the past as well, as Cornballer well knows.
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