Support NeoGAF

[Brother Sport]

So Cassie from the first and second season of Skins UK played a wife/daughter, hope to see more of her. And the only remaining heir of Robert is Chris, also from Skins. Weird to see all these guys pop up in Game of Thrones.

Episode as a whole didn't disappoint. It's a pretty slow start, but I'm betting the intensity will ramp up just like last season.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't think it's a rule that everyone in Westeros has a british accent. The girl that is with Tyrion, I forget her name, clearly doesn't.

She's supposed to be foreign, too.

In the scene when they first meet, he asks her what her accent is. She says, "foreign".

 

[Peru]

In no universe is it a slow start. I hope the creators don't listen to fans wanting to pack even more action into episodes. Personally I want more slower scenes, more scenes that don't push things forward but just give depth to characters.

 

[GCX]

Oh and the CG... The interaction with the dragons is so fake.

Same with wolves.

You can't really except anything more from a TV series CG wise. It's really impressive considering the budget.

We could easily have some Terra Nova level effects (both shows have the same CG studio after all) but thank god not.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Only Dutchies have this problem I guess. Weird to watch!

It's also weird to me when the others refer to her character. Probably because I 'know' her too well.

Oh and the CG... The interaction with the dragons is so fake.

Same with wolves.

Yeah, Dany's line of sight was way off with the dragon, it looked bad. The dragon itself looked great though.

 

[Xrenity]

You can't really except anything more from a TV series CG wise. It's really impressive considering the budget.

We could easily have some Terra Nova level effects (both shows have the same CG studio after all) but thank god not.

I know and I'm glad it's not LOST levels of bad, but I can't help but notice

 

[JB1981]

In no universe is it a slow start. I hope the creators don't listen to fans wanting to pack even more action into episodes. Personally I want more slower scenes, more scenes that don't push things forward but just give depth to characters.

Agree completely, I can't remember the last time I was so transfixed to my TV set. For those who haven't read the second book (like myself) I imagine the season-opener wasn't slow at all.

 

[Lonestar]

Yeah, Dany's line of sight was way off with the dragon, it looked bad. The dragon itself looked great though.

I'm going to have to relook at that scene. Was looking solely at the dragon.

 

[StudioTan]

Got it, no facts from the show. So you insist on me humoring you while you don't even respect what I have to say.



I never mentioned location as important.... just the fact on whether or not Melisandre (or the entire kingdom in fact) cares if she exists. I've repeated this many times. Why don't they care she exists? Because the Targaryens haven't been relevant in a decade.



No it's not a stretch, which is why I humored your statement in my last point. Yes, people can remember, but again (and again and again) I ask you... Why should these people care? Especially since they're portrayed as not caring?



So how is that not the case? How would anyone know the Targaryens exist? Ravens? Is Daenerys sending ravens across the ocean declaring her existence? Has anyone from the Small Council mentioned anything about caring about Daenerys' existence once Khal Drogo died? Has anyone in the kingdom even mentioned the Targaryens outside of Daenerys' pregnancy or "Kingslayer"? Again, please present facts from the show.



Your reasoning is based on speculation and projection, and has nothing to do with actual facts from the show. Again, please present facts from the show.




The only reason I'm being like this is because you completely and consistently gloss over all my points. If you won't listen to reason, then at least I'd like to see that you're at least acknowledging my points.

If she's a mystic she likely knows that the comet might be a portent to the coming of dragons and the Targeryans's were the rulers of the dragons. It doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Obviously the Targeryan's are special somehow, ie Dany not being able to be burned.

 

[JB1981]

I am really curious to see who Dany hooks up with to get out of the current predicament she's in. She looked really beat up last night. When the show first aired I wasn't really crazy about her character but now I feel she's right up there with the best. Oh and Sansa is smartening up real nice.

 

[Rentahamster]

If she's a mystic she likely knows that the comet might be a portent to the coming of dragons and the Targeryans's were the rulers of the dragons. It doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Obviously the Targeryan's are special somehow, ie Dany not being able to be burned.

Then again, that particular ability of hers came to her as a bit of a surprise, even to her. It's not like everyone in the family had that ability, since her brother got scalded to death just fine.

 

[walbertsmith]

If she's a mystic she likely knows that the comet might be a portent to the coming of dragons and the Targeryans's were the rulers of the dragons. It doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Obviously the Targeryan's are special somehow, ie Dany not being able to be burned.

If she's an omniscient mystic that's revealed later, that's perfectly fine. My whole stance is that the show has done nothing to link Melisandre with dragons thus far.

 

[JGS]

If she's a mystic she likely knows that the comet might be a portent to the coming of dragons and the Targeryans's were the rulers of the dragons. It doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Obviously the Targeryan's are special somehow, ie Dany not being able to be burned.

Agreed even if she doesn't need to know about Dany (Dragons can exist without them can't they?).

 

[JB1981]

Anyone else get the first season on blu-ray? The picture quality is INSANE. It's almost like watching a different show.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Agreed even if she doesn't need to know about Dany (Dragons can exist without them can't they?).

Since they didn't hatch for hundreds of years I'd have to say, probably not. But I don't see any reason why anyone would see that comet and think "omg dany found dragons!" I'd think they'd be freaking the fuck out if they did.

 

[RDreamer]

Agree completely, I can't remember the last time I was so transfixed to my TV set. For those who haven't read the second book (like myself) I imagine the season-opener wasn't slow at all.

I haven't read the books either, and yeah that wasn't a slow start. It sat perfectly well with me. It had enough continuance of the major threads and enough intense scenes that I was perfectly happy.

 

[krameriffic]

Agree completely, I can't remember the last time I was so transfixed to my TV set. For those who haven't read the second book (like myself) I imagine the season-opener wasn't slow at all.

I agree. The show does an excellent job of condensing all the slog of reading Martin's descriptive style into the visuals and tones of the scenes. This allows them to keep the dialog interesting and the tension high, even in scenes where there isn't much happening. It's not really the swordfighting or all-out war that people are watching this show for, it's the scheming.

 

[Rentahamster]

it's the scheming.

 

[Kak.efes]

The Mormont and Snow relationship is easily one of the more compelling aspects of the show for me. The scene between the two outside the encampment was the highlight of the episode for me.

 

[JB1981]

I agree. The show does an excellent job of condensing all the slog of reading Martin's descriptive style into the visuals and tones of the scenes. This allows them to keep the dialog interesting and the tension high, even in scenes where there isn't much happening. It's not really the swordfighting or all-out war that people are watching this show for, it's the scheming.

Yep people are in it for the scheming and their connection to the characters. I could care less about seeing a big battle scene or a war. I just want to see who is going to outwit who. It helps that the writing and acting are absolutely top notch.

 

[kame-sennin]

Fantastic premiere. Guess I might as well chance it in the other thread though. This one's always so dead. People seem to be okay with marking spoilers there.

Even with spoiler tags, there's way too much hinting going on in that thread.

Enjoyed the first episode overall. Favorite parts:

- Power is power scene
- Rob acting like a BOSS, even telling his mother what to do
- Tyrian's LOSER talk with Cercei
- Whatever effect or real wolves they are using, I like the Direwolves. I was worried how they would look.

I have no idea how they did it, but at times it looked like they filmed a real wolf and blue-screened it in to the shot so it would be bigger in proportion to the actors. I'd say it looked pretty good.

Team Lannister.

Rob is such a boring character as is his mother. Hopefully Jaime gets to kill him one day.

I also like Daenerys Targaryen who, lets face it, is the legitimate heir to the throne.

Rob is easily the most competent character on the show. He's a good general, and he's avoided taking the stupid pills his dad was so fond of. He also has the best one liners:

Jamie: Three victories doesn't make you a conqueror.

Rob: It's better than three defeats.

He had a lot of great lines like that last season.

As for Danni, she doesn't have a better claim than Stannis. She and Stannis both hail from a family that ascended to the thrown via conquest. Robert Baratheon had as much right to take the Iron Throne as the first Targarian king did.

 

[JB1981]

Even with spoiler tags, there's way too much hinting going on in that thread.



I have no idea how they did it, but at times it looked like they filmed a real wolf and blue-screened it in to the shot so it would be bigger in proportion to the actors. I'd say it looked pretty good.



Rob is easily the most competent character on the show. He's a good general, and he's avoided taking the stupid pills his dad was so fond of. He also has the best one liners:

Jamie: Three victories doesn't make you a conqueror.

Rob: It's better than three defeats.

He had a lot of great lines like that last season.

As for Danni, she doesn't have a better claim than Stannis. She and Stannis both hail from a family that ascended to the thrown via conquest. Robert Baratheon had as much right to take the Iron Throne as the first Targarian king did.

Seems like his trust for Greyjoy might be his undoing. I think Cat is going to die soon

Their scene seemed like a final farewell for some reason. I don't think Bran will see his mother again

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Seems like his trust for Greyjoy might be his undoing. I think Cat is going to die soon

Their scene seemed like a final farewell for some reason. I don't think Bran will see his mother again

I thought Caitlin is going to see Stanis not Greyjoy or do I remember it wrong?

 

[Rentahamster]

I thought Caitlin is going to see Stanis not Greyjoy or do I remember it wrong?

That's her mission as Robb just explained to her in that scene. JB is just pondering that the scene looked like a "final farewell" scene in his view.

 

[Squall ASF]

Why does everyone think Greyjoy will betray Rob? I haven't seen any foreshadowing in their interaction through season 1 or this episode. He seems to genuinely want to be there for Rob. Maybe his father will be another story and will try to capture Cat to gain power, but I don't think Theon? will be on board for that. If anything, I think he'd try to rescue her and get her back safely. That said, I can't stand Cat and would love it if she died. After Joffrey and Sansa, she's the next most unbearable character. I do like the other Stark kids though and it would be rough for them with both parents gone. She's just so emotionally impulsive and has absolutely no common sense. It's a damn good thing Rob is leading and not her.

 

[walbertsmith]

I thought Caitlin is going to see Stanis not Greyjoy or do I remember it wrong?

She's actually going far south to visit with Renly, not Stannis.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

She's actually going far south to visit with Renly, not Stannis.

Ok that sounds right. Where the hell is Renly? Last we saw him he was in King's Landing trying to convince Ned to side with him over Stanis right? Is he still near King's Landing?

 

[JB1981]

Oh I was wrong then I thought she was going to ask for the Greyjoy fleet. So she is going to see Renly eh? Hmmmm

 

[Squall ASF]

She's actually going far south to visit with Renly, not Stannis.

That's right. Too bad, guess Cat will live for now.

 

[walbertsmith]

Ok that sounds right. Where the hell is Renly? Last we saw him he was in King's Landing trying to convince Ned to side with him over Stanis right? Is he still near King's Landing?

Renly is south with the Tyrells (Loras Tyrell is his lover), and their lands are south of King's Landing.

Last time we saw him he was trying to convince Ned to capture Joffrey before his mom could get to him(right after Robert died). I don't recall if he mentioned Stannis specifically though... IIRC, he wanted to take the throne himself, because apparently he's beloved by the people.

 

[Rentahamster]

She's just so emotionally impulsive and has absolutely no common sense.

I remember thinking that after she captured Tyrion, but as an audience member privy to information that she doesn't have, I thought it added well to the dramatic irony.

Ok that sounds right. Where the hell is Renly? Last we saw him he was in King's Landing trying to convince Ned to side with him over Stanis right? Is he still near King's Landing?

In that same scene, they speak of Renly's alliances with other houses, so that's what we know he's been doing. After the king died, they said in a scene that Renly ran away with Loras Tyrell, his boyfriend. One of the houses that is allied with Renly now is House Tyrell.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Man at the ending. At first I thought the soldiers were going to enter and kill all the whores to teach Littlefinger a lesson. Then they dragged the baby out, and I thought "uh oh.... This scene isn't going to endear the Mrs to this show". Brutal.

Joffrey is such a massive prick, to be fair most of the characters are real shades of grey, but have some sort of redeemable quality hidden amongst their personality somewhere. Joffrey is just a straight up, 100% massive cunt.


The next 9 Mondays are going to be all sorts of awesome.

 

[TCRS]

Yay, great episode! Craster looked way too civilised though. The only problem was that each character was shown only for a short time... they barely managed to get all in (well, except Rickon. He wasn't shown at all lol).

 

[StudioTan]

If she's an omniscient mystic that's revealed later, that's perfectly fine. My whole stance is that the show has done nothing to link Melisandre with dragons thus far.

That's not how it works. If a comet is said to foretell the return of dragons, you don't have to know the precise circumstances, you just assume that it has happened and that the only surviving member of the dragon rulers is likely involved. That's how prophecy works.

 

[Squall ASF]

I remember thinking that after she captured Tyrion, but as an audience member privy to information that she doesn't have, I thought it added well to the dramatic irony.

If it was just one instance it wouldn't be so bad but she's done it the entire show, in EVERY situation. With Ned, with Tyrion, with Rob. Just doesn't think things through or look at the larger picture. She really should with Ned gone. It's a damn good thing that Rob isn't simply a mommas boy and can rationally think and make decisions for himself on behalf of his people and family. If Cat tried to take Cercies level of control over her family, they'd be fucked.

 

[Enosh]

looking at that map guide thingy on HBO
how the fuck is Stannis Baratheon even trying to do anything? his realm is so much smaller it's sad, it's like Cuba invading the US

and the Lanisters are stupid if they don't take the peace offer, why fight against 3 if you can narrow it down to 2, it's not like the Starks want the throne or even have a right to it
give them freedom and deal with them once the rest is dealt with, they don't get any manpower or taxes from them atm anyway

 

[Rentahamster]

If a comet is said to foretell the return of dragons

The only person who mentioned dragons is that wildling prisoner who comes from the middle of nowhere. Everyone else has their own interpretation of it.

 

[walbertsmith]

That's not how it works. If a comet is said to foretell the return of dragons, you don't have to know the precise circumstances, you just assume that it has happened and that the only surviving member of the dragon rulers is likely involved. That's how prophecy works.

So there are "rules" to prophecy now? Remember, Melisandre said nothing about dragons... it was Osha that mentioned it, after mentioning two other possibilities for the comet's meaning (implying that the true meaning of the comet is in the eyes of the beholder).

To put this more plainly:

- Person in Lannister's camp sees comet as "Lannister Red", meaning Lannisters will win the war

- Person in Stark's camp sees comet as "Ned's Blood", meaning Starks will have their revenge

- Person in wildlings camp sees comet as "Dragons are Returning", meaning... yeah

- Melisandre (in Stannis' camp) sees this as "Great Warrior Arrives", meaning... yeah

Point is, who knows what's actually going to happen? Everyone that looks at the comet believes it means something different. We don't actually know what it means yet. Attributing it to Melisandre and dragons is possible, but the show hasn't made that link. The *only* link to dragons thus far is Osha's idle speculation (accompanied by other theories on the comet's meaning).

Linking the comet to anything else is speculation at best, and linking Melisandre with dragons is a massive stretch (thus far).

 

[Last Hearth]

looking at that map guide thingy on HBO
how the fuck is Stannis Baratheon even trying to do anything? his realm is so much smaller it's sad, it's like Cuba invading the US

and the Lanisters are stupid if they don't take the peace offer, why fight against 3 if you can narrow it down to 2, it's not like the Starks want the throne or even have a right to it
give them freedom and deal with them once the rest is dealt with, they don't get any manpower or taxes from them atm anyway

Well at this moment they can't take the offer because they don't have Arya, and does Joffrey,
he of the "I'm the King! Everyone has to do what I say!", impress you as someone capable of that level of strategic thinking.

 

[StudioTan]

The only person who mentioned dragons is that wilding prisoner who comes from the middle of nowhere. Everyone else has their own interpretation of it.

Oh I understand that, the question was whether there was ANY way Melisandre could know that Dany had dragons. IF she believes in that comet=dragons thing then it's not a stretch for her to think Dany might have somehow gotten a dragon.

Keep in mind she's involved with Robert's brother who knew that both Dany and her brother were alive and where they were.

So there are "rules" to prophecy now?

Of course, that's how it works, when signs appear, events happen.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

looking at that map guide thingy on HBO
how the fuck is Stannis Baratheon even trying to do anything? his realm is so much smaller it's sad, it's like Cuba invading the US

and the Lanisters are stupid if they don't take the peace offer, why fight against 3 if you can narrow it down to 2, it's not like the Starks want the throne or even have a right to it
give them freedom and deal with them once the rest is dealt with, they don't get any manpower or taxes from them atm anyway

I agree with 3 armies outside the door and Daenerys playing the long game, the smart money has to be against the Lannisters unless they can pull off some feat of stunning diplomacy with the Starks. I'm not sure what they can do with Renly/Stanis since they want nothing but to depose the Lannisters.

 

[Enosh]

Well at this moment they can't take the offer because they don't have Arya, and does Joffrey,
he of the "I'm the King! Everyone has to do what I say!", impress you as someone capable of that level of strategic thinking.

his grandfather should smack the shit out of him if he utters a single word about that
but yeah, not having Arya is bad for any talks

 

[Cipherr]

The only person who mentioned dragons is that wildling prisoner who comes from the middle of nowhere. Everyone else has their own interpretation of it.

I like her character. Didn't expect to, but I do, I hope she sticks around with the boy.

 

[Lennington]

Yay, great episode! Craster looked way too civilised though. The only problem was that each character was shown only for a short time... they barely managed to get all in (well, except Rickon. He wasn't shown at all lol).

Good! Rickon is creepy. That scene at the end of last season in the crypts, something about his vacant eyes and the tone of his voice was just creepy. Wandering around underground in the pitch black with a dire wolf as well, weird kid.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Good! Rickon is creepy. That scene at the end of last season in the crypts, something about his vacant eyes and the tone of his voice was just creepy. Wandering around underground in the pitch black with a dire wolf as well, weird kid.

And he named his wolf Shaggydog. What a stupid kid.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I agree with 3 armies outside the door and Daenerys playing the long game, the smart money has to be against the Lannisters unless they can pull off some feat of stunning diplomacy with the Starks. I'm not sure what they can do with Renly/Stanis since they want nothing but to depose the Lannisters.

It ultimately depends on how much the other sides in the war hate each other. If Stannis attacks his brother or the North first it might be harder to take King's Landing. And depending on how fierce and long the battles are between the various factions, Daenerys' long game may play in her favor in the long run.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Does anyone get the feeling that they may be setting up a rags to riches storyline with the bastard son of King Robert (The blacksmith kid)? I can see it going where his heritage becomes more common knowledge and they can try and unsurp Joffery and make the smith king.

 

[Forsaken82]

The only person who mentioned dragons is that wildling prisoner who comes from the middle of nowhere. Everyone else has their own interpretation of it.

She comes from north of the wall, she doesn't come from the middle of nowhere.

 

[kame-sennin]

looking at that map guide thingy on HBO
how the fuck is Stannis Baratheon even trying to do anything? his realm is so much smaller it's sad, it's like Cuba invading the US

He's supposed to be a good military commander, he has the most legitimate claim to the throne, and his territory isn't important if he can raise an army on the mainland quickly. It's similar to when Napoleon returned to France after his first exile. He was living on a tiny little island, but as soon as he landed in France, the entire army recognized him as their Emperor and he took over very quickly. Stannis probably thinks the same thing is going to happen here.

and the Lanisters are stupid if they don't take the peace offer, why fight against 3 if you can narrow it down to 2, it's not like the Starks want the throne or even have a right to it
give them freedom and deal with them once the rest is dealt with, they don't get any manpower or taxes from them atm anyway

The Starks control half of the country, and it's the half that is most difficult to conquer, being so cold. If the Lannisters can't defeat the Starks now, they won't be able to defeat them after they legitimize Rob's sovereignty and give him time to consolidate power (especially considering how worn down their forces will be after fighting Stannis and Renly). More importantly, if Rob gets to be king in the north, why should the other five kingdoms have to live under the Iron Throne? The entire purpose of the Iron Throne is to pull all seven kingdoms under the rule of one leader. If Joffrey can't rule over the northern kingdom, then he has no right to rule over any of the others. Last season Robert Baratheon explained to Circi that the seven kingdoms aren't really unified. And the only reason they came together in the first place is because the Targarians used dragons to keep the kingdoms in line. Joffrey has no dragons, so his grip on power is tenuous at best. Shutting down Rob's rebellion is vital to maintaining order.

 

[Rentahamster]

She comes from north of the wall, she doesn't come from the middle of nowhere.

Given how most people don't give two shits about what's north of the Wall, it is the middle of nowhere.