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[Finalow]

They only had one dragon in the budget this week

that's sad.

 

[scy]

that's sad.

Hey, dragons are expensive.

 

[MMaRsu]

Why? She's an exotic foreign presence in Dragonstone.

Because I'm dutch and I can hear her horrible accent even if you can't.
Not a fan of her acting, but the part with the wine tasting was pretty badass.

Aside from that...

WOW this show is fucking amazing! I caught up with the first season before the second one came out and this show just took me by surprise! Arya is one of my favorite characters as well, why is it that she's so popular? I also love Daenerys her story, and although I disliked Sansa in the first season, I really feel for her now. Who wouldn't when she has to be married to the biggest fucking douchebag ever. I just wanna slap Joffrey everytime his smug face is on scene.

The power is power scene was intense by the way!

 

[big ander]

Thanks for the faction breakdown people. I guess I got it more than I thought I did.

yes I liked him, but that was when I thought that he was good, and would try and help stark family, but now it seems he is not going to and will be doing his best to support those fucking lanisters. anyone who is on those bastards lanisters side need to die.

He is on the wrong side of the battle, but his relationship with Jon Snow and the Starks in season 1 makes me think that he's playing his family until he can escape/power grab. Better to be observant in King's Landing than away and overpowered.

where the hell is the second dragon.
nice start btw, looking forward to see the next one.

They were all in cages.

I hope the answer to this question isn't too spoilery. Is Arya ever going to play a bigger role? She's one of my favorite characters.

You cannot ask this here, at all. The books don't exist in here.

 

[F!ReW!Re]

Because I'm dutch and I can hear her horrible accent even if you can't.

Not a fan of her acting, but the part with the wine tasting was pretty badass.

I have the same problem, the accent is pissing me off, although the last line of that wine drinking scene was pretty good

 

[Forsaken82]

I agree I wasn't sure exactly what was going on in that scene either.

It's explained somewhat in the hbo.com feature
"Inside The Episode: Season 2 Episode 1" I wish they'd broadcast these after every episode right on HBO.

Melisandre, they call her a "red priestess" and the director calls her "basically a witch". The scene where she drinks the poison is supposed to demonstrate that her powers are real.

I think this scene plays out differently in the book, but I could be wrong.

 

[walbertsmith]

I'm suggesting it's possible, you're adamant it's not. Given the woman's interests as displayed in the episode and given the establishment of the return of dragons as an explanation for the comet, I conclude that it's possible she has surmised a Targaryen has again acquired a dragon. I'm not saying she did, I'm saying it's possible and declaring it impossible is not supported by what we know. Logically your position carries the more substantial burden of proof. Your proof consists of speculations about interests and little else. It's a very unconvincing case.

My position is based solely upon what has been already been established by the show. I have never said that it's not possible, but everything in the show thus far points to no. The *only* person to mention dragons isn't even Melisandre, but Osha when describing to Bran the myriad possibilities of what the comet might mean.

You are the one trying to make leaps of logic on connecting Melisandre to dragons, and are conveniently avoiding all the facts established by the show that I've described.

Again I ask... how is Melisandre even aware of Daenerys' existence? Yes, she might remember that Daenerys was exiled as a child but that's it. You (again) conveniently gloss over the fact that Jorah Mormont was the only connection that the kingdom has to Daenerys. So if that connection is severed or compromised, how does anyone in the kingdom know about Daenerys?

Sure, Melisandre might connect the comet with dragons... but then again Tyrion might be a dragon himself. Point is, neither of those two scenarios makes sense with what the show's already established.

Kharvey/walbertsmith:

Melisandre alludes to the comet as part of her god's prophecy regarding the return of a great warrior. Whether she has other knowledge or ulterior motives is, like every other character, possible but entirely speculative.

Exactly. The comet differs in meaning depending on the eye of the beholder. The fact that Melisandre considers it a "return of a great warrior" gives *zero* links to Daenerys and dragons.

FWIW, I'm not saying it's not possible... but saying that it is possible is contradicting all the facts and logic that the show has already established.

I think this scene plays out differently in the book...

SPOILERS

 

[rar]

Team Lannister.

Rob is such a boring character as is his mother. Hopefully Jaime gets to kill him one day.

I also like Daenerys Targaryen who, lets face it, is the legitimate heir to the throne.

team GENDREY. joe dempsie is a boss

 

[Arjen]

Because I'm dutch and I can hear her horrible accent even if you can't.

Not a fan of her acting, but the part with the wine tasting was pretty badass.

Was hard for me to watch to, accent is cringeworthy.

 

[Forsaken82]

SPOILERS

Not quite sure how its a spoiler when its the same thing that happens in the episode... but whatever, ill tag them. Oh nevermind i see... no book stuff at all... i was merely making a pt though.. but whatever.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Because I'm dutch and I can hear her horrible accent even if you can't.
Not a fan of her acting, but the part with the wine tasting was pretty badass.

Aside from that...

WOW this show is fucking amazing! I caught up with the first season before the second one came out and this show just took me by surprise! Arya is one of my favorite characters as well, why is it that she's so popular? I also love Daenerys her story, and although I disliked Sansa in the first season, I really feel for her now. Who wouldn't when she has to be married to the biggest fucking douchebag ever. I just wanna slap Joffrey everytime his smug face is on scene.

The power is power scene was intense by the way!

I was thinking about why Arya is popular. I think it's because she's a tomboyish girl who knows exactly what she wants in life and isn't willing to take shit from anyone. Pretty much the exact opposite of Sansa.

 

[rar]

that's sad.

there are a lot of examples in the show of a limited budget, such as how often the direwolves aren't shown and the camera work intentionally not showing cgi backgrounds

 

[KHarvey16]

My position is based solely upon what has been already been established by the show. I have never said that it's not possible, but everything in the show thus far points to no. The *only* person to mention dragons isn't even Melisandre, but Osha when describing to Bran the myriad possibilities of what the comet might mean.

You are the one trying to make leaps of logic on connecting Melisandre to dragons, and are conveniently avoiding all the facts established by the show that I've described.

Again I ask... how is Melisandre even aware of Daenerys' existence? Yes, she might remember that Daenerys was exiled as a child but that's it. You (again) conveniently gloss over the fact that Jorah Mormont was the only connection that the kingdom has to Daenerys. So if that connection is severed or compromised, how does anyone in the kingdom know about Daenerys?

Sure, Melisandre might connect the comet with dragons... but then again Tyrion might be a dragon himself. Point is, neither of those two scenarios makes sense with what the show's already established.



Exactly. The comet differs in meaning depending on the eye of the beholder. The fact that Melisandre considers it a "return of a great warrior" gives *zero* links to Daenerys and dragons.

FWIW, I'm not saying it's not possible... but saying that it is possible is contradicting all the facts and logic that the show has already established.




SPOILERS

You say she might remember her but then go on to say since Jorah is the only link she couldn't know about her. I'm not glossing over it, because as you just pointed out he isn't necessary to the reasoning.

The "facts" that you believe disprove the possibility really don't.

 

[big ander]

Not quite sure how its a spoiler when its the same thing that happens in the episode... but whatever, ill tag them. Oh nevermind i see... no book stuff at all... i was merely making a pt though.. but whatever.

doesn't really matter, books essentially do not exist in this topic.

 

[Cornballer]

Just a quick reminder from the OP:

SPOILER RULES:

- ABSOLUTELY NO BOOK SPOILERS. It doesn't matter if they're under spoiler tags, they should not be in this thread. Use the other thread for book-related television discussion. This includes alluding to things, subtle hinting, comparing the books to the show, etc...

- Regular TV thread rules apply:

• Once something airs in the US on the East Coast, it's fair game. Feel free to discuss anything that has aired without using spoiler tags.
• Anything that hasn't aired yet should be spoiler tagged including information from HBO previews, loglines, trailers, interviews, and a few other places.
• Speculation from people that haven't read the books is fine and encouraged.

- For the non-book readers using this thread:

• If you have any questions about plot points or want clarification on something, feel free to send a PM to any of the helpful volunteers (see below) and ask them.
• If you're curious about how things unfolded differently the book, please use the other thread.

- For the book readers that want to lurk in this thread:

• No taunting or teasing:
  e.g. "Oh, just wait until you guys see what happens to him next week!!!"
• No leading questions:
  e.g. "What do you think will happen to this character by the end of the season?"
• No comparing the book to the show:
  e.g. "Well, that's different than in the book where they..."
• Answering questions is fine when the information is readily available from what has aired on the show.
  e.g. Q: "Wait, how is Robb related to Ned?" A: "Robb is Ned's son."

The bottom line is that this thread was created for people that haven't read the books to enjoy and discuss the television show. Keep their interests in mind and let them enjoy the show on their own terms without constantly pestering them. In general, there isn't a good reason for book readers to post in this thread. Thanks for your help.

Note that comparisons to the books should not be in this thread.


If you have spoilerish questions (e.g. the Arya one), please use the resource provided or take it to the other thread:

Volunteers who are familiar with the books and willing to answer your questions (spoilerish and non-spoilerish) via PM:

• PhoenixDark
• Puddles
• ultron87
• zmoney
• Emerson
• AngryMoth
• KingK
• Fuzzy
• bengraven

Thanks for your help.

 

[defel]

Great episode. Gonna be a pain watching week to week though. Im hoping there's more Jorah Mormont - love that guy

 

[MMaRsu]

Was hard for me to watch to, accent is cringeworthy.

Lol thank god I'm not the only one. I guess she got cast because she also did a TERRIBLE movie with Sean Bean set in like castle times Black Death.

I did really like her in Black Book though, but that's the only one.

 

[walbertsmith]

Not quite sure how its a spoiler when its the same thing that happens in the episode... but whatever, ill tag them. Oh nevermind i see... no book stuff at all... i was merely making a pt though.. but whatever.

Books don't exist in this thread.

You say she might remember her but then go on to say since Jorah is the only link she couldn't know about her. I'm not glossing over it, because as you just pointed out he isn't necessary to the reasoning.

Wow, is this actually happening? Do you not remember what you just typed yourself?

The only reason why I mentioned "might remember her" is because you said this earlier:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36581978&postcount=280

It doesn't require connections, just a memory of the event or information about who was removed.

My statement was humoring your earlier position that people remember the Targaryens getting exiled from 10 years ago. Sure, they might remember, but do they know where she is (and what she's doing) now? No, they don't.

The "facts" that you believe disprove the possibility really don't.

Okay, so explain to me where my logic is wrong when explaining the Jorah Mormont situation. Saying "you're wrong" doesn't exactly disprove me. I've provided numerous examples of facts and events from the show and your entire position is "well, because I said so." I'd like to see some sort of recitation of events or conversations or facts from the show to support your position.

 

[gutshot]

I did really like her in Black Book though, but that's the only one.

The producers said they initially auditioned her because they really liked her work in Black Book.

Just curious, what is so bad about a Dutch accent to Dutch ears? Is it just jarring to hear in a series with mostly British accents?

 

[KHarvey16]

Books don't exist in this thread.




Wow, is this actually happening? Do you not remember what you just typed yourself?

The only reason why I mentioned "might remember her" is because you said this earlier:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36581978&postcount=280



My statement was humoring your earlier position that people remember the Targaryens getting exiled from 10 years ago. Sure, they might remember, but do they know where she is (and what she's doing) now? No, they don't.



Okay, so explain to me where my logic is wrong when explaining the Jorah Mormont situation. Saying "you're wrong" doesn't exactly disprove me. I've provided numerous examples of facts and events from the show and your entire position is "well, because I said so." I'd like to see some sort of recitation of events or conversations or facts from the show to support your position.

Wait, where did I suggest she knew where Dany was other than across the sea? That's where they were exiled to, other than that her exact location isn't important to the possibility we're discussing. For some reason you think anyone remembering something from 10 years ago is a real stretch, never mind it was a rather important event in the kingdom's history. You are the one insisting Jorah is needed for anyone to know any Targaryens exist after a whole 10 years, and I think that's not the case. I've gone through my reasoning quite a few times now and still maintain the information you try to shoehorn into a rebuttal to these speculations doesn't fit the bill.

On top of all that, your attitude sucks.

 

[Arjen]

The producers said they initially auditioned her because they really liked her work in Black Book.

Just curious, what is so bad about a Dutch accent to Dutch ears? Is it just jarring to hear in a series with mostly British accents?

She was great in Black Book, but that was a dutch film.
I don't know why it bothers me so much, i guess it breaks the immersion for me, you immediatly only see the actress and not the character.

 

[defel]

I thought her accent was strange but I just assumed that she was a foreign character within the fiction of the show. It never was particularly jarring for me. I didnt place her as English or Dutch, but something completely new and different which actually makes it more interesting to me. We already have Tyrion's mistress with a "foreign" accent so there's a precedent within the story anyway.

On the topic of accents Jamie Lannister's (or his actor) has a fantastic English accent.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

walbertsmith, please just explicitly concede the following point (which you already have, at least implicitly), because I can assure you Kharvey is the T-1000 of pedantic arguments:

Yes, it is possible Melisandre is aware of Daenerys and the dragons. That is all he is looking for. It's practically a non-point, but he is not going to let go.

 

[Peru]

Unlike Tyrion she's clearly not trying to speak with a british accent, I'm sure she was told to keep her intonation. And she absolutely nailed it acting-wise.

 

[MMaRsu]

The producers said they initially auditioned her because they really liked her work in Black Book.

Just curious, what is so bad about a Dutch accent to Dutch ears? Is it just jarring to hear in a series with mostly British accents?

Too bad, because that's a Dutch film and she really is great in that. Her English accent is just grating to me and indeed immersion breaking, I can just hear that she's dutch and it takes me out of the GoT atmosphere.

And yes to bolded as well.

But if she's supposed to be foreign I guess I can understand why they told her to keep the intonation but I'm sure it's just her bad accent that's showing through.

 

[Socreges]

walbertsmith, please just explicitly concede the following point (which you already have, at least implicitly), because I can assure you Kharvey is the T-1000 of pedantic arguments:

Yes, it is possible Melisandre is aware of Daenerys and the dragons. That is all he is looking for. It's practically a non-point, but he is not going to let go.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I thought her accent was strange but I just assumed that she was a foreign character within the fiction of the show. It never was particularly jarring for me. I didnt place her as English or Dutch, but something completely new and different which actually makes it more interesting to me. We already have Tyrion's mistress with a "foreign" accent so there's a precedent within the story anyway.

On the topic of accents Jamie Lannister's (or his actor) has a fantastic English accent.

I thought of her as Counselor Troi: Certainly not English, but not really anything else in particular. Maybe this is a result of bad acting in general.

 

[Bo-Locks]

Well it really has picked up where series one left off. A nice set up and it's anyone guess what will happen from here, but the Lannisters are surely going to get their comeuppance eventually.

Was hard for me to watch to, accent is cringeworthy.

Dinklage's accent is pretty ropey too, but it's just something that you have to get over, and it's not so bad when you stop focusing on it.

The producers said they initially auditioned her because they really liked her work in Black Book.

Just curious, what is so bad about a Dutch accent to Dutch ears? Is it just jarring to hear in a series with mostly British accents?

Just like a Brit listening to Dinklage's accent, I suppose. It's simply not that good. Carice van Houten's accent isn't so jarring as I'm not a native Dutchman and even so, a "foreign" sounding accent perfectly fits the role.

 

[Nizz]

I guess I can assume as big as Robb's wolf was in last night's show he still isn't fully grown? I remember the dead one they found in the first season (when they found the pups) was huge.

 

[smokeymicpot]

So good to have this show back. I liked it nice start to the season.

 

[nubbe]

I think Tyrion accent in this episode was the worst one.

 

[Peru]

Just like a Brit listening to Dinklage's accent, I suppose. It's simply not that good. Carice van Houten's accent isn't so jarring as I'm not a native Dutchman and even so, a "foreign" sounding accent perfectly fits the role.

It's not the same at all, as one role is meant to be foreign and one is meant to sound like all the other natives (british).

 

[MMaRsu]

I guess I can assume as big as Robb's wolf was in last night's show he still isn't fully grown? I remember the dead one they found in the first season (when they found the pups) was huge.

Can they get even bigger? I found this one huge and frightening already.

They definitely get bigger if their mother is any indication.

Oh well, I guess I have to rewatch the part where they find the mother from S1.

It's not the same at all, as one role is meant to be foreign and one is meant to sound like all the other natives (british).

Do they mention her being from a foreign land?

 

[JGS]

Can they get even bigger? I found this one huge and frightening already.

They definitely get bigger if their mother is any indication.

EDIT: Was the Direwolf a special effect or real? If an effect than they have pulled off a pretty convincing one and can't wait until they're grown.

 

[KHarvey16]

walbertsmith, please just explicitly concede the following point (which you already have, at least implicitly), because I can assure you Kharvey is the T-1000 of pedantic arguments:

Yes, it is possible Melisandre is aware of Daenerys and the dragons. That is all he is looking for. It's practically a non-point, but he is not going to let go.

His tone(used completely undeservedly given the strength of his argument) encouraged me to not let it go.

 

[walbertsmith]

Got it, no facts from the show. So you insist on me humoring you while you don't even respect what I have to say.

Wait, where did I suggest she knew where Dany was other than across the sea? That's where they were exiled to, other than that her exact location isn't important to the possibility we're discussing.

I never mentioned location as important.... just the fact on whether or not Melisandre (or the entire kingdom in fact) cares if she exists. I've repeated this many times. Why don't they care she exists? Because the Targaryens haven't been relevant in a decade.

For some reason you think anyone remembering something from 10 years ago is a real stretch, never mind it was a rather important event in the kingdom's history.

No it's not a stretch, which is why I humored your statement in my last point. Yes, people can remember, but again (and again and again) I ask you... Why should these people care? Especially since they're portrayed as not caring?

You are the one insisting Jorah is needed for anyone to know any Targaryens exist after a whole 10 years, and I think that's not the case.

So how is that not the case? How would anyone know the Targaryens exist? Ravens? Is Daenerys sending ravens across the ocean declaring her existence? Has anyone from the Small Council mentioned anything about caring about Daenerys' existence once Khal Drogo died? Has anyone in the kingdom even mentioned the Targaryens outside of Daenerys' pregnancy or "Kingslayer"? Again, please present facts from the show.

I've gone through my reasoning quite a few times now and still maintain the information you try to shoehorn into a rebuttal to these speculations doesn't fit the bill.

Your reasoning is based on speculation and projection, and has nothing to do with actual facts from the show. Again, please present facts from the show.

On top of all that, your attitude sucks.

The only reason I'm being like this is because you completely and consistently gloss over all my points. If you won't listen to reason, then at least I'd like to see that you're at least acknowledging my points.

 

[walbertsmith]

walbertsmith, please just explicitly concede the following point (which you already have, at least implicitly), because I can assure you Kharvey is the T-1000 of pedantic arguments:

Yes, it is possible Melisandre is aware of Daenerys and the dragons. That is all he is looking for. It's practically a non-point, but he is not going to let go.

His tone(used completely undeservedly given the strength of his argument) encouraged me to not let it go.

And there you have it.

 

[scy]

On another note, I'm glad they found a white raven after the commentary from Season 1 made it sound like they wouldn't have one.

It's the small things that make me happy.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Dinklage's accent is pretty ropey too, but it's just something that you have to get over, and it's not so bad when you stop focusing on it.

I had to look up what 'ropey' meant. You just gotta accept that's they way they talk. If I dwelled on the accents, I wouldn't enjoy this show. I can hardly take such over the top cheesy English accents, even the ones done by Brits.

haha, I remember last nights episode. I can't quite remember what King Joffrey (Lannister, lol!) said, but I'll paraphrase.

Joffrey:"Take him away. he is to be executed tomorrow."
Sansa: "You KAHNT!"

and I was like "Whoa! You can't call the King that!" lol

 

[Rentahamster]

Red lady so hot. <3

Too bad, because that's a Dutch film and she really is great in that. Her English accent is just grating to me and indeed immersion breaking, I can just hear that she's dutch and it takes me out of the GoT atmosphere.

And yes to bolded as well.

But if she's supposed to be foreign I guess I can understand why they told her to keep the intonation but I'm sure it's just her bad accent that's showing through.

I see your point that her accent sounds too Dutch and that takes you out of the story, but I think it might help if you just think of it as just another foreign accent, and not specifically "Dutch". I mean, it's not like the other characters speaking with a British accent makes me think that they are British.

I guess I sort of see it like when a Japanese video game gets localized into English - many times the Japanese "country" accent gets localized into an American Southern accent despite the many obvious cultural differences; the main point being that they want to distinguish the "country" character as being different.

In the GoT world, the common language is British English, with other foreign accents being whatever we as an audience can relate to in order to convey to us the feeling of "foreignness"...although again, I probably would feel more like you do if I were more familiar with the Dutch accent.

 

[LJ11]

I don't know how you can possibly say that. Information flows through that city like water. There isn't much of anything that only a couple people know.

A running theme of the show is asymmetrical information, one knows what the other doesn't and vice versa.

Stannis was on the Small Council/in Kings Landing before he bailed though, so he may know about the Targaryens in some manner, or at least their existence.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Carice her accent probably won't go unnoticed by Dutch viewers. But her acting is quite okay. It doesn't bother me that much because of that.

 

[Rentahamster]

Dinklage's accent is pretty ropey too, but it's just something that you have to get over, and it's not so bad when you stop focusing on it.

I guess it's good for me as an audience member that I can't distinguish an authentic British accent, either, hahahaha

 

[StudioTan]

I agree I wasn't sure exactly what was going on in that scene either.

It's explained somewhat in the hbo.com feature
"Inside The Episode: Season 2 Episode 1" I wish they'd broadcast these after every episode right on HBO.

Melisandre, they call her a "red priestess" and the director calls her "basically a witch". The scene where she drinks the poison is supposed to demonstrate that her powers are real.

That was pretty clear to me. She knows it's poisoned, she waits until he starts dying and then she drinks it anyways to show her power. Also when she's leaning over the body the gemstone in her neck piece starts to glow.

 

[Finalow]

Hey, dragons are expensive.

b-b-but dragons are so cool.

 

[Danielsan]

Carice her accent probably won't go unnoticed by Dutch viewers. But her acting is quite okay. It doesn't bother me that much because of that.

It annoyed the shit out of me. Could not take any of her scenes serious because of it sadly.

 

[scy]

Red lady so hot. <3

Listening to the audio books made me picture uh ... a quite so less attractive woman based on the voice used for her. I think I can deal with how she looks in the show~ :x

b-b-but dragons are so cool.

Of course! Budgets be damned!

On that note, the CGI work really is impressively done.

 

[Xrenity]

It annoyed the shit out of me. Could not take any of here scenes serious because of it sadly.

Only Dutchies have this problem I guess. Weird to watch!

It's also weird to me when the others refer to her character. Probably because I 'know' her too well.

Oh and the CG... The interaction with the dragons is so fake.

Same with wolves.

 

[kingocfs]

Watching this over a second time with HBO GO helps out a ton.

Speaking of accents, Aiden Gillen continues to mystify me with whatever he's trying to sound like. He has this weird cocktail of European countries in everything he's in, even as Carcetti.

 

[StudioTan]

Too bad, because that's a Dutch film and she really is great in that. Her English accent is just grating to me and indeed immersion breaking, I can just hear that she's dutch and it takes me out of the GoT atmosphere.

And yes to bolded as well.

But if she's supposed to be foreign I guess I can understand why they told her to keep the intonation but I'm sure it's just her bad accent that's showing through.

I don't think it's a rule that everyone in Westeros has a british accent. The girl that is with Tyrion, I forget her name, clearly doesn't.