Support NeoGAF

[Clear]

This is a blatant blackmail attempt to get MS to pull out its $ and fund a project that's facing financial difficulties and challenges....

So if a project is facing "financial difficulties and challenges" your response would be to maximize the financial stress and workload on the team by trying to publish on every platform simultaneously?

That makes zero sense!

 

[Kacho]

So no, it's not a shakedown

Klayzer debunked

 

[skit_data]

"Marketing conditions" made it sound like some deal was made but "Market conditions" makes kinda sense I guess.

Edit: I find it pretty bizarre the Ori games haven't released on Playstation btw, especially now that Xbox themselves has started publishing a lot on PS. I've bought the first game on Steam but haven't finished it because I really don't game on PC nowadays. Would easily buy it again and actually finish the game if it released on PS.

 

[Ozriel]

So if a project is facing "financial difficulties and challenges" your response would be to maximize the financial stress and workload on the team by trying to publish on every platform simultaneously?

That makes zero sense!

Publishing a well received game on more platforms gives you an expanded chance of profitability

 

[Zacfoldor]

The game is an unoptimized mess currently, it will probably run like shit on all platforms.

Nah, Moon studios don't miss.

Moon studios did Ori. It's crazy this studio went from ori to potentially skipping xbox. MS sure didn't build up a good relationship with this studio did they? If they did, I can't imagine how this happens. Then I find this(not that I believe it, looks like bullshit if you ask me):

Ori Developer's Culture Reportedly 'Oppressive,' No Longer Working With Xbox - IGN

A new report alleges that Ori and the Blind Forest developer Moon Studios had issues with crunch and abuse as well as a difficult relationship with Xbox.

www.ign.com

Now I'm sad because I did not know this was an event in the industry that I missed. I feel old and out of touch and it's Monday so it's not a great time right now. Edit: Okay I read the Moon Studio horseshit and I don't believe it. Not a word. IMHO I suspect somebody paid very well for that "expose." I have my suspicions. Moon Studios is based. Someone with big pocketbooks came for them and they didn't bend imo. I'm a much bigger fan of them now than I was before. Go go moon studios! It also reads like something written in the time of embracing woke bullshit. That time has passed and it is clear they were treated unfairly in retrospect.

 

[Ozriel]

Sucks for Series-only gamers but the Series is dead on the market so… It is what it is.

Also, if there is a new PC console thingy coming in 2026 it makes little sense to waste resources to get this to run well on especially Series S, it's a quite demanding game.

You know the dev says they're looking to prioritize a Switch 2 port, right?

 

[Sooner]

It's makes almost as much sense to make a Dreamast port as it does an Xbox port at this point.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Publishing a well received game on more platforms gives you an expanded chance of profitability

Ah yes, the magic "Port, optimize and compile for Xbox Series X & S" button that MS included in the SDK.
Takes no people, time or money at all!

 

[Clear]

Publishing a well received game on more platforms gives you an expanded chance of profitability

Yes, but publishing on more platforms especially day-and-date adds a ton of extra work both logistically and development wise. Every build needs QA'ing, supplying to platform holders for lot-checks and platform publishing guidelines, etc. And obviously all of the above needs to be synced up with the slowest responding of any of the previously mentioned stake-holders.

Its not "free". Especially for an outfit like Moon who have very little prior experience of this sort of process - its fraught with risk. One SKU coming up short because it wasn't given full and proper attention can sour the launch across all platforms due to create negative brand association.

 

[Ozriel]

Ah yes, the magic "Port, optimize and compile for Xbox Series X & S" button that MS included in the SDK.
Takes no people, time or money at all!

Yes, the use of the word 'Profit' implies Revenue > Cost. Where Cost =/= 0

Why do I have to explain something so simple to you?

 

[Elginer]

Will get on switch 2 and only if good

 

[Ozriel]

Yes, but publishing on more platforms especially day-and-date adds a ton of extra work both logistically and development wise. Every build needs QA'ing, supplying to platform holders for lot-checks and platform publishing guidelines, etc. And obviously all of the above needs to be synced up with the slowest responding of any of the previously mentioned stake-holders.

Its not "free". Especially for an outfit like Moon who have very little prior experience of this sort of process - its fraught with risk. One SKU coming up short because it wasn't given full and proper attention can sour the launch across all platforms due to create negative brand association.

Sure. That's why I specified 'well received'. The v1.0 reception on PC would already give a decent estimate of console performance.

Of course porting an unpopular game wouldn't make sense. Which is why it's a much easier decision to port Grounded 2 to PS5 than South of Midnight for example.

But good point about the 'day and date' stuff. As a small team, it could certainly impact release dates on bigger platforms if you shoot for same day release.

 

[ReBurn]

Gotta focus on where they are most likely to make money.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Guess I'll just wait a little longer.

GL

 

[Ar¢tos]

Yes, the use of the word 'Profit' implies Revenue > Cost. Where Cost =/= 0

Why do I have to explain something so simple to you?

Every year Xbox sells less and less, and the consoles are almost impossible to find in some countries.
Making a Xbox version when resources are very limited makes no commercial sense.
Xbox is a liability for devs now.
Even Square Enix thinks very carefully now before releasing games on Xbox.

 

[Fess]

Folks, can we drop the conspiracy theory insanity? If NeoGAF becomes more and more like the purple forum, don't be surprised if people stop posting here as well.

So no, it's not a shakedown, it's called common fucking sense.

What our community has been wanting the most is Co-Op and Console support, so we want fulfill those wishes as soon as humanly possible. We're already hard at work on Co-Op so people can play Wicked in Multiplayer pretty soon. And after that the idea is that we'll release 1.0 sooner than initially expected so that we don't have to deal with the hassle of being an Early Access Game on Consoles. Wicked is already in a pretty great state, so by the time we exit Early Access, we'll be golden.

And in order to get there fast, we'll first support the platform that has the most users purely out of resource reasons. We're a comparatively small indie studio, so doing a console port at the quality level we want is not a small task. Porting to Xbox means porting to Xbox Series X and Series S and that'll take more time to optimize compared to porting to PS5 and PS5Pro. So we're most likely going to do PS5/PS5Pro first and launch there in order to make fans happy and supply other ports later.

That's literally all there is to it. And yes, we'll need to discuss with Xbox and Nintendo what the best strategies are to support their platforms and their features in the best way possible and that'll be an ongoing discussion.

So there's nothing to see here, it's just common sense with us having to make the right moves given the resources we have while making sure we give players what they want as fast as possible.

Unfortunately it's always like this when a game skip one of those two, or when it's just timed exclusivity, for whatever reason. But it's no better in any other social space from what I've seen. It is what it is.

Going by rumours Xbox is merging into a PC, so things should be smoother eventually.


Anyhow, loving the game.

Just one criticism, if you read this.

Make the loot more rewarding.

Place some ultra unique gear in hard to find chests. And don't make it random, go with predefined loot for those. If it's a level 30 req thing when you're level 1 then so be it, will just push you to level up. Turn such loot into a talking point online, get people making guides about it, like it is in Elden Ring.

In Wicked you mostly find crafting material in chests, Avowed have the exact same problem and I don't like it, makes looting boring.

 

[Beechos]

As an Xbox fan this is something that would def make me jump ship. I prefer the xbox controller and interface but if they start losing 3rd party support, ms doesn't have the 1st party quality ips like Sony and nintendo to get people to stick around. I didn't mind them going third party since I can play all the games I want on xbox and use my ps5 and switch as exclusive machines.

 

[Kacho]

Even Square Enix thinks very carefully now before releasing games on Xbox.

What do you mean? They released a ton of their back catalog on Xbox a few months ago and said future games will be multiplat.

 

[Ozriel]

Every year Xbox sells less and less, and the consoles are almost impossible to find in some countries.
Making a Xbox version when resources are very limited makes no commercial sense.
Xbox is a liability for devs now.

"Xbox sells less and less every year so the existing install base is just going to magically disappear"

Even Square Enix thinks very carefully now before releasing games on Xbox.

Wut?

 

[Ar¢tos]

What do you mean? They released a ton of their back catalog on Xbox a few months ago and said future games will be multiplat.

After Phil Spencer had a meeting with them and probably promised to start covering the porting costs in 2023

Xbox & Square Enix Announce Plans To 'Partner Closely' On Future Games

"Whenever possible, we are planning to bring our games to Xbox"

www.purexbox.com

 

[Ar¢tos]

"Xbox sells less and less every year so the existing install base is just going to magically disappear"





Wut?

The exclusivity for FF7 ended in 2022... No Xbox version released as soon as it ended (or 3 years after that!)

 

[jm89]

Every year Xbox sells less and less, and the consoles are almost impossible to find in some countries.
Making a Xbox version when resources are very limited makes no commercial sense.
Xbox is a liability for devs now.
Even Square Enix thinks very carefully now before releasing games on Xbox.

Square enix are probably making fuck all from those xbox releases.

If they are't rethinking their releases on xbox now, they will when they find out that most of the green rangers don't buy games.

 

[mckmas8808]

@grok is this true?

I love those Twitter responses, because alot of the time Grok does a great job breaking down the story.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Unfortunately the game isn't very good.

 

[GHG]

Folks, can we drop the conspiracy theory insanity? If NeoGAF becomes more and more like the purple forum, don't be surprised if people stop posting here as well.

So no, it's not a shakedown, it's called common fucking sense.

What our community has been wanting the most is Co-Op and Console support, so we want fulfill those wishes as soon as humanly possible. We're already hard at work on Co-Op so people can play Wicked in Multiplayer pretty soon. And after that the idea is that we'll release 1.0 sooner than initially expected so that we don't have to deal with the hassle of being an Early Access Game on Consoles. Wicked is already in a pretty great state, so by the time we exit Early Access, we'll be golden.

And in order to get there fast, we'll first support the platform that has the most users purely out of resource reasons. We're a comparatively small indie studio, so doing a console port at the quality level we want is not a small task. Porting to Xbox means porting to Xbox Series X and Series S and that'll take more time to optimize compared to porting to PS5 and PS5Pro. So we're most likely going to do PS5/PS5Pro first and launch there in order to make fans happy and supply other ports later.

That's literally all there is to it. And yes, we'll need to discuss with Xbox and Nintendo what the best strategies are to support their platforms and their features in the best way possible and that'll be an ongoing discussion.

So there's nothing to see here, it's just common sense with us having to make the right moves given the resources we have while making sure we give players what they want as fast as possible.

Thanks for putting a stop to the nonsense that was being said in this thread by certain individuals.

The game has come a long way with recent updates so glad to see you guys have your priorities straight.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Jaffe was constantly harassed on here nonstop anytime he posted anything with some of the dumbest posts I've ever seen, and then he left and the forum is worse off for it. The guy stuck here with his public name longer than almost everyone. He doesn't have thin skin.

His latest online rants (latest = 1+ years old) prove the exact opposite.

I too dislike online mobs and 100 Vs 1 but, the guy is the definition of a grifter nowadays, also, he's insufferable.

 

[Kvally]

Unfortunately the game isn't very good.

That sucks

 

[Darsxx82]

So if a project is facing "financial difficulties and challenges" your response would be to maximize the financial stress and workload on the team by trying to publish on every platform simultaneously?

That makes zero sense!

How do you draw that conclusion from what I'm saying???

Rather, if your project faces complications and increased costs, and you have to meet additional payments... you're interested in someone advancing you money to address those complications. Surely, MS is the best option today to raise the money you need today by making the GamePass game or financing the project in another way, with the excuse of ensuring a day-one launch.

The other option, of course, is to focus work on platforms with the largest user base or with which you have some kind of agreement... This happens all the time, but serious and formal studios don't use social media to apply pressure; they discreetly approach the publisher specifically for solutions.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I love those Twitter responses, because alot of the time Grok does a great job breaking down the story.

I'm sure the grok is this true tshirts and bumper stickers are any day now.

 

[Fess]

You know the dev says they're looking to prioritize a Switch 2 port, right?

DLSS is a wonderful thing I know

But it'll likely be 30fps. And I would expect that for Series S too, with lots of extra time optimizing it.

As for Series X I think it's about sales numbers and how games in general are selling.

If they released it on Gamepass I'm sure Xbox gamers would boast about it enough for it to be like an ad campaign.

But Moon Studios need money. It would be risky. The game was in danger not long ago, there was a thread about it here.

I'm mostly surprised that Thomas Mahler said they talked to Microsift every day awhile back. If they aren't talking about Wicked, what are they talking about? Ori 1/2 ports for Switch 2? Or for PS5?

 

[Goalus]

"Marketing conditions"?
The marketing conditions seem to be quite pleasant given the recent influx of positive reviews on Steam.

 

[GHG]

"Marketing conditions"?
The marketing conditions seem to be quite pleasant given the recent influx of positive reviews on Steam.

There's a link to what was actually said right there in the OP.

The thread title is incorrect.

 

[spacemovies]

xbox isn't a very attractive option to ship for unless you have a gamepass deal. it's not even that the userbase is that low, it's more that the userbase doesn't buy games. xbox kind of put themselves in a corner with their all in focus on gamepass.

 

[Sooner]

This is a blatant blackmail attempt

Bwahahaha

 

[Roman Empire]

Are companies starting to avoid launch date on Xbox due to low sales and GamePass conditioning smaller games to be thought as "gamepass fodder"?

 

[Sooner]

Are companies starting to avoid launch date on Xbox due to low sales and GamePass conditioning smaller games to be thought as "gamepass fodder"?

 

[Duellist]

By the time this comes out it will be on ps6.

 

[Roman Empire]

Should have me called captain obvious due to the rhetorical question.

 

[clarky]

Unfortunately the game isn't very good.

Im the opposite. Admittedly I've not put in as much time as I'd like but i what I have played(so far) is great.

 

[Fess]

As an Xbox fan this is something that would def make me jump ship. I prefer the xbox controller and interface but if they start losing 3rd party support, ms doesn't have the 1st party quality ips like Sony and nintendo to get people to stick around. I didn't mind them going third party since I can play all the games I want on xbox and use my ps5 and switch as exclusive machines.

Build a PC, that's where they're heading from how the talk goes. Then you'll have your fav controller and your achievements and account, even your saves sometimes when it's Play Anywhere. And no waiting for ports it's all there already at least from this generation. And Gamepass is there of course. And PlayStation have their games there as well. And Wicked has already been out for a year on PC.

Will likely cost you a bit more but might be worth it.

 

[Klayzer]

Klayzer debunked

 

[clarky]

Are companies starting to avoid launch date on Xbox due to low sales and GamePass conditioning smaller games to be thought as "gamepass fodder"?

Why would something not releasing on gamepass be regarded as "gamepass fodder"?

 

[Mister Wolf]

If the next Xbox runs PC games then it is pointless to make a legacy Xbox console version. Focus those resources on shipping the best possible PC port. Make sure it runs well with Steam OS.

 

[Peroroncino]

makes sense, seems like a gamble and a waste of resources right now without some sort of a guarantee in place.

focus on the platforms that'll make money and then see what's what

 

[Mister Wolf]

The game is an unoptimized mess currently, it will probably run like shit on all platforms.

I definitely don't have much hope of the Switch 2 version running it well. Would never want to play this at sub 60fps, and low resolutions would ruin all of the detailed, beautiful artstyle.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

makes sense, seems like a gamble and a waste of resources right now without some sort of a guarantee in place.

focus on the platforms that'll make money and then see what's what

Sony:

 

[Fess]

If the next Xbox runs PC games then it is pointless to make a legacy Xbox console version. Focus those resources on shipping the best possible PC port. Make sure it runs well with Steam OS.

Don't know if I misunderstood your post but the Xbox console won't have Steam OS.
At best it'll have Steam big picture mode, on Windows, alt+tabbed from Xbox App through the Xbox button.
But the more likely scenario is that it'll just launch Steam games through the Xbox App.

 

[pudel]

If the next Xbox runs PC games then it is pointless to make a legacy Xbox console version. Focus those resources on shipping the best possible PC port. Make sure it runs well with Steam OS.

Its somehow also an M$ problem for not being clear about their next console. Its just vague hints and rumors. Absolutely understand when devs are a bit hesitant here.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The game is an unoptimized mess currently, it will probably run like shit on all platforms.

Didn't have performance issues when I played.
It's been a few months though.. did the performance get worse or something?

 

[tTHANOSs]

Well if the next xbox console has a steam store then porting a game to the Xbox & Microsoft store may seem unnecessary to some developers/publishers.