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NoA-Andy on snaking
- Thread starter civilstrife
- Start date
radioheadrule83
Banned
I just played someone who was pretty good at it.. although he didn't do it all the way around the track. It was a one and one so he only did it as much as necessary.
Baby Park is mayhem, I find thats pretty touch-and-go for anybody to win of any skill, so sometimes I throw that at snakers.
Baby Park is mayhem, I find thats pretty touch-and-go for anybody to win of any skill, so sometimes I throw that at snakers.
The is the natural result of a game having a dominant strategy. It's no different than camping in FPS games - a natural emergent strategy that utilizes the rules of the system to the player's advantage.
Of course, I'd prefer it if the game *didn't* have some obvious dominant strategy, but the blame isn't to be placed on people for taking advantage of mechanics that are a part of the game. It's to be placed on a lack of foresight in design. It also helps that due to the nature of the weapons one can use in the game, it isn't absolutely impossible to beat someone just because he's snaking.
Of course, I'd prefer it if the game *didn't* have some obvious dominant strategy, but the blame isn't to be placed on people for taking advantage of mechanics that are a part of the game. It's to be placed on a lack of foresight in design. It also helps that due to the nature of the weapons one can use in the game, it isn't absolutely impossible to beat someone just because he's snaking.
â Narayan
Member
I thought this was referring to F-ZERO GX, seeing as how you can snake in that as well.
dode said:
It's really not that hard, just suck it up.
Seriously, some people make such a huge deal about it. Most of the time it's not even "snaking" that makes a player good, it's simply being able to tell where you can sneak in boosts.
Like Delfino, for example. The only place you can really "snake" is the straight path at the very beginning. From then on, you need to learn where best to sneak in mini boosts. You can boost twice around the fountain, around corners in the alleys, a few times as you pull onto the bridge, etc. Being able to go into a turn and boost directly into the shortcut with the mud near the end is another nice bit one can use to their advantage.
None of what I mentioned involved snaking, but it's elements like these which separate average players from the hardcore players with that 200/30 ratio. Now, Figure 8, Luigi Circuit, and to an extent, Baby Park, are an ENTIRELY different story.
But hell, get four awesome snakers on Figure 8 and it's awesome. You can have some close and ridiculously hectic races there. I just finished a match from a team tourney (2v2) with all snakers, and Figure 8 as well as Luigi Circuit were the two that were the most fun.
So if you don't like "snakers", just stop complaining. Use the rival search feature and find others who don't care about learning how to effectively use the game mechanics.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Campster said:
Agreed. I don't think they're doing anything wrong per se. I'm sure its perfectly wonderful when everybody can do it.
The thing about it for me is that it just looks horrible. Mario Kart is based on the concept of Go Karting, since when do Go Karts zig and zag all over the place at a stupid speed like that? You'll be in some games, and the game/connection can't even cope with it and predicts their path wrong inbetween packets. It gets them close to correct, but its not enough. And its only happened to me in races against snakers. It looks awful. Its like playing Team Fortress with a bunch of high ping 56kers.
Theres something in the mentality of some players too -- they're not playing with any kind of fun, competitive mentality. If they can crush all three opponents, new and old players alike -- they will. I mean, its blindingly evident when you're racing someone zig zagging all over the track that they're not interested in a fair fight. They'll race three people who'll show no signs of doing it, and just do it all the way around the track to satiate their inner stats whore. I don't do it, but no wonder people drop out.
They should have put a time delay on it. A limited amount of mini boosts, and then you have to wait a while before you can do it again.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
The "snaking" mechanics in the MK series since SMK are fucking awful. They utterly destroy what made SMK such genius in my opinion. This is coming from someone who loved the snaking in FZGX and set several world records
AdmiralViscen
Banned
So a technique that totally destroys the carefully-arranged character balance of the game is cool? I wonder how the actual development team feels about what this nobody at NoA is saying.
MarkRyan said:
No, it's a cheap technique that wasn't intended to be in the game. I don't care how much Nintendo damage controls the situation. If snaking was truly intended to be in the game, then Nintendo would not have made over 80% of the karts obsolete by not being able to snake appropriately.
I can snake as well as anybody. The first day I got the game I was snaking my way to victory in the majority of matches. It's not a "complex" or "difficult" technique to learn but it's just not fun. It wasn't the way Mario Kart was intended to be played.
The bottom line is, I can snake but I just don't see "TEH FUN" in it.
Red Scarlet
Member
Was snaking in Mario Kart 64? I did that a lot if it was.
The big question is I guess, what constitutes snaking?
Are you never allowed to use miniturbos? Only one per corner? Or maybe not on straights (but what exactly is straight and corners)?
As I see it, people who can't snake will just have too learn it and people who are against it, should just play their non snaking friends and stop complaining.
Are you never allowed to use miniturbos? Only one per corner? Or maybe not on straights (but what exactly is straight and corners)?
As I see it, people who can't snake will just have too learn it and people who are against it, should just play their non snaking friends and stop complaining.
Yes, because it's more fun to hold the gas button in a straight line than to actively do something in an attempt to win.Cerrius said:
Every anti-snaker says the same thing: "I can do it, but it's not fun." The whole "it's not fun" thing doesn't really make sense when you consider that snaking is simply an alternative to driving a straight line, and driving straight lines in Mario Kart is hardly the highlight of the game.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Some people play online for fun. Others play online to win no matter what.
The two do not get on.
The two do not get on.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
yeah snaking is dumb. I always try and avoid it by voting with whoever doesn't pick the 2 really broken levels (luigi stadium and figure 8). I pretty much have to take a rest from the game after 1 round of figure 8 if I try keep up with the snakers. I'm pretty good and can knock out 2 or 3 boosts round a corner, but the whole using the broken mechanic on straightaways doesn't really interest.
The fact that nobody has ever snaked me in the Rambi-rider using Donkey kong lends weight to my suspicion that it's a broken mechanic that Nintendo didn't fully realise during the design process.
The fact that nobody has ever snaked me in the Rambi-rider using Donkey kong lends weight to my suspicion that it's a broken mechanic that Nintendo didn't fully realise during the design process.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Squeak said:
Snaking is snaking. Its a load of mini-turbos strung together. The game is what it is, it can't be changed now. Start stringing together mini-turbos by swinging left to right to left (etc) on the track, and you're snaking.
It can't be changed but that doesn't mean Mario Kart fans have to like it.
It looks retarded. Does anyone here think anyone bought Mario Kart with the expectation that racing online would mean lots of twiddling the D-pad and timing presses/releases of the gas button? OR.. could it be that most people thought racing in Mario Kart DS would entail you taking control of a Mario character, in a little Go-kart, you steer it, you hop and slide, you try and tackle the track well, you attack each other with weapons and you try and get to the finish line in a good position.
Most people probably don't know what the fuck is going on when they see a character seemingly lagging all over the track. Not everyone who buys Mario Kart is a huge nerd.
jaundicejuice
Member
Snaking is an exploit, and all I can do is laugh at anyone who tries to spin it any other way. If snaking is the intended use of the boosting mechanic, then when don't the CPU controlled characters use it? Why aren't all the courses designed so they're snaking friendly? If you don't snake when someone else is, you don't stand a chance of winning a race period. Snaking breaks the game.
That article is a lame attempt at damage control by a corporate puppet. The flaw is in the game and there's nothing that can be done to fix it, it's not like Nintendo can patch this.
That article is a lame attempt at damage control by a corporate puppet. The flaw is in the game and there's nothing that can be done to fix it, it's not like Nintendo can patch this.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
MarkRyan said:
I take it you never played SMK...or never got good at the game. The cornering mechanics were perfect (and the weapon balance & physics far better), every game in the series since has been an example in how to downgrade AAA gameplay
AdmiralViscen
Banned
jaundicejuice said:
Breaks character balance, too. The characters that are supposed to be slowest become RIDICULOUSLY FAST, and 95% of the karts become totally uncompetitive.
WTF does that mean? Would you rather it be Mario Gas Button DS?xsarien said:
If everyone's of equal skill then items matter. If someone's better than you, items will only save you occasionally.
If you don't use the gas button to move forward when someone else does, you don't stand a chance of winning a race period. The gas button breaks the game.jaundicejuice said:
jaundicejuice
Member
MarkRyan said:
Nice use of circuitous logic there, care to address the other points I raised? Why don't CPU controlled characters use snaking? Why aren't all courses snaker friendly if snaking is the intended use of the play mechanic?
MarkRyan said:
What gets me is that you know that's an empty argument. There's a difference between just holding down the gas, making sure you powerslide around the curves and other opportune moments, and knowing precisely when to use items.
Note that "other opportune moments" doesn't encompass "Whole damned track." Between all of the items and karts available in the game, just saying "I'm gonna snake because it makes me go faster!" is a horribly shallow way to approach the game. Hell, if there ever was a game that wasn't primarily about speed, it's Mario Kart.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
MarkRyan said:
Best not to prove to people that you're an idiot. Now go and play SMK
Asskicker064
Member
Snaking is fun. We play 4 player local at work all the time, and all of my co workers do it as well. Knowing that just a few boosts can make or break a race adds tension and the races generally come out really close. Snaking doesn't hurt my hand anymore, you get used to it. I'm not sure where this blister thing comes from, I don't get those and my hands aren't calloused at all.
Destroying your fingers? Blisters? I think, maybe, you're not doing it quite right. In Mario Kart 64 and Double Dash, I'll admit that my thumbs got a bit tired after snaking a few races back-to-back. But on the DS version, I've never found it to be uncomfortable in the least. Just don't try to rape the D-Pad with your thumb, and you can say goodbye to those blisters for good.Cerrius said:
Arguing that it's an abuse of the game mechanics is fair enough, but there's not much that can be done about that now. I can't say for sure whether it was intended by the game designers, but you can't really say it was an "oversight" either. After all, this is third incarnation of the series where it's possible.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
xsarien said:
its called "Player Community", you have 3 sets of people in online gaming
those who want to have fun (usually dont care about ranks etc)
those who want the best stats/weapon/pistol script/ranking/armor set.
those who play music over voice IP and call you a "hacking faggot nigger jew" (when they lose)
The majority of the online arena is dominated by people wanting to win and be uber (not saying snaking is the devil or anything i just think when nintendo created the use of a mini boost, it was assumed it would be good for "powersliding around a corner")
online play is by its nature (from the people that play it) is 95% crap and 5% AWESOME.
I look forward to see how this works out for nintendo.
nicholasbrutal
Epic Games PR Manager
Hasn't this been in other games in the Mario Kart series? That's enough to lead me to believe that it's been left in the game intentionally.