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[Shouta]

Using they is fine as a replacement for he/she in sentences. It's a pronoun and it's meant to replace a noun in a sentence. It's only an issue if you don't setup a context. For example. "What are they doing?" alone is too vague. But if the conversation has "Pamela needs a lot of food and help on Sunday" before that phrase, then we know the person is talking about Pamela. If they were to use she in this sentence, it would provide more detailed information, specifically the gender, but they works perfectly fine.

There are plenty of languages in the world where they use non-gendered pronouns to refer to someone. Japanese has like a half-dozen for example.

 

[Rentahamster]

You were talking about grammatical correctness, not individual preferences.

The singular they actually is, technically speaking, grammatically correct. It even has APA guidelines.

Singular “they”

The singular “they” is a generic third-person singular pronoun in English. Use of the singular “they” is endorsed as part of APA Style because it is inclusive of all people and helps writers avoid making assumptions about gender.

apastyle.apa.org

A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

OED ambassador Prof Dennis Baron turns to the OED to provide a brief history of the singular 'they' - from the 14th century to present day:

public.oed.com

Singular they - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pol Pot]

The singular they actually is, technically speaking, grammatically correct. It even has APA guidelines.

Singular “they”

The singular “they” is a generic third-person singular pronoun in English. Use of the singular “they” is endorsed as part of APA Style because it is inclusive of all people and helps writers avoid making assumptions about gender.

apastyle.apa.org

A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

OED ambassador Prof Dennis Baron turns to the OED to provide a brief history of the singular 'they' - from the 14th century to present day:

public.oed.com

Singular they - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unless their name is John, apparently.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It's always been used to generically refer to a single person anyways in some contexts... this is all just exaggerated concern. A police report or legal document wouldn't use "he" or "she" anyways, they'd continue to repeat a persons name, or something more specific. Police continue to use "male" and "female" either way; they are unlikely to stop lol

Are you really that confused? if 2 men are in a video thumbnail.. and someone used the word "he", wouldn't you also have the same trouble identifying who they were talking about? You wouldn't.. because that would only happen after the subject has been identified anyways... same with use of "they."

 

[Joshmyersbv]

If I ever make a tweeter account I'm going to fill up my bio entirely with pronouns. Instant king of tweeter.

If you want attention on Twitter put #superstraight in your bio. I heard non binary people love that.

I had a guy at my work tell me that he was gender fluid and to call him as much. I told them I'm not doing that stupid shit and they never came back to work.

 

[Coolwhhip]

If you want attention on Twitter put #superstraight in your bio. I heard non binary people love that.

I had a guy at my work tell me that he was gender fluid and to call him as much. I told them I'm not doing that stupid shit and they never came back to work.

Maybe it was a hot day and he evaporated.

 

[IntentionalPun]

If you want attention on Twitter put #superstraight in your bio. I heard non binary people love that.

I had a guy at my work tell me that he was gender fluid and to call him as much. I told them I'm not doing that stupid shit and they never came back to work.

Interesting.

It's almost like using "they" is normal and natural common English (and grammatically correct too), once it's been established a single person is the subject, regardless of their gender (much like the term their, which is used for both groups, and individuals)

 

[GodofWhimsy]

Shouldn't the human race be advanced enough at this point to have more pressing issues and/or developments to attend to?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

There are plenty of languages in the world where they use non-gendered pronouns to refer to someone. Japanese has like a half-dozen for example.

Japanese is a very different language and how pronouns are used is not really comparable to English and how we *need* to use he/she/they to correctly form sentences.

This declaring pronouns business seems to be a distinctly English phenomenon.

The singular they actually is, technically speaking, grammatically correct. It even has APA guidelines.

Singular “they”

The singular “they” is a generic third-person singular pronoun in English. Use of the singular “they” is endorsed as part of APA Style because it is inclusive of all people and helps writers avoid making assumptions about gender.

apastyle.apa.org

A brief history of singular ‘they’ | Oxford English Dictionary

OED ambassador Prof Dennis Baron turns to the OED to provide a brief history of the singular 'they' - from the 14th century to present day:

public.oed.com

Singular they - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, I said as much earlier, but it only works with general nouns, not once you've established a specific individual with a name.

 

[Pol Pot]

Unless their name is John, apparently.

Interesting.

It's almost like using "they" is normal and natural common English (and grammatically correct too), once it's been established a single person is the subject, regardless of their gender (much like the term their, which is used for both groups, and individuals)

Japanese is a very different language and how pronouns are used is not really comparable to English and how we *need* to use he/she/they to correctly form sentences.

This declaring pronouns business seems to be a distinctly English phenomenon.



Yes, I said as much earlier, but it only works with general nouns, not once you've established a specific individual with a name.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Japanese is a very different language and how pronouns are used is not really comparable to English and how we *need* to use he/she/they to correctly form sentences.

This declaring pronouns business seems to be a distinctly English phenomenon.

Not really; we don't *need* to use them at all, even for grammatical correctness.

These terms are used after the subject has already been determined; once the subject has been identified as either an individual, or a group, use of "they" is not confusing or incorrect in any way. If you bring up 2 separate people, and then randomly say "they" it would be confusing.. it would also be confusing if you brought up 2 people and then said "he" or "she"...

This is all just made up confusion.. nobody is confused.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Not really; we don't *need* to use them at all, even for grammatical correctness.

These terms are used after the subject has already been determined; once the subject has been identified as either an individual, or more than 1 individual, use of "they" is not confusing or incorrect in any way. If you bring up 2 people, and then randomly say "they" it would be confusing.. it would also be confusing if you brought up 2 people and then said "he" or "she"...

This is all just made up confusion.. nobody is confused.

For clarification, I'm talking about how Japanese works just fine and can be used correctly even without stating the subject if it is understood through context. We typically need to clarify the subject in English each time either with names/nouns, or pronouns.

For example, this kind of sentence works just fine and is perfectly natural in Japanese:

John went to the mall yesterday. Bought books. On way home, got gas. After returned home, ate dinner then went to bed.

We would need a few "he" pronouns to make this correct in English.

 

[SidViscous]

Using they is fine as a replacement for he/she in sentences. It's a pronoun and it's meant to replace a noun in a sentence. It's only an issue if you don't setup a context. For example. "What are they doing?" alone is too vague. But if the conversation has "Pamela needs a lot of food and help on Sunday" before that phrase, then we know the person is talking about Pamela. If they were to use she in this sentence, it would provide more detailed information, specifically the gender, but they works perfectly fine.

Nah, there is a reason why people tend to use gendered pronouns, and that is it minimises confusion. It acts as a soft checksum of sorts, if midway into a sentence somebody says 'and then she..' but you thought they were talking about a male, you can immediately respond with 'wait what I thought you were talking about..'

by using gendered pronouns you add an extra degree of error-correction to someones understanding of your sentence. Which over time, has resulted in the gendered pronouns being used as standard in most conversational English. Any words that have even a minor advantage grammatically (or are just easier to pronounce!) will become the standard due to how languages constantly evolve and optimise themselves.

Forcing yourself to use "they" the whole conversation, when someone is blatantly male of female, is fucking stupid. People join conversations mid-way in the real (non-clown) world.

 

[Pol Pot]

I'm trying to think of a single instance, where someone was talking to me about someone that I didn't already know, where their gender was important to the point they were making.
There were none.

 

[Rentahamster]

Japanese is a very different language and how pronouns are used is not really comparable to English and how we *need* to use he/she/they to correctly form sentences.

It's different in structure and syntax, but that's not getting to the heart of the matter. The point is that human communication, regardless of language, is not necessarily dependent on strict pronoun archetypes for 100% clear communication. That's one of the reasons Japanese is so confusing to English speakers, because English speakers think that Japanese doesn't have any pronouns. It does have pronouns, they just are understood via context and usually not voiced because they're not necessary.

The OP himself said that the context of the sentence was "figured out easily enough" so we know that this is entirely possible.

There are already situations of ambiguity when using singular pronouns, not to mention the evolution of you/thee/thou/thy, or other non-standard uses like the royal "we". The singular they doesn't necessarily stand out in that regard. Only if you're not used to hearing it. But then that's just a personal subjective issue of opinion, not necessarily a matter of grammar or language.

Yes, I said as much earlier, but it only works with general nouns, not once you've established a specific individual with a name.

Not according to the grammar rules.

Definition of THEY

those ones : those people, animals, or things; —used to refer to people in a general way or to a group of people who are not specified; —used with a singular indefinite pronoun antecedent… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[IntentionalPun]

Nah, there is a reason why people tend to use gendered pronouns, and that is it minimises confusion. It acts as a soft checksum of sorts, if midway into a sentence somebody says 'and then she..' but you thought they were talking about a male, you can immediately respond with 'wait what I thought you were talking about..'

lol.. when in the world does this ever happen?

 

[Kev Kev]

Your first mistake is going on that website.

Annnnnnnnd /thread

 

[SidViscous]

lol.. when in the world does this ever happen?

When you join a conversation half-way? when you overhear someone else talking? when a male and female share the same name?

shall I continue? I mean this seems like really common sense stuff.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Not according to the grammar rules.

Definition of THEY

those ones : those people, animals, or things; —used to refer to people in a general way or to a group of people who are not specified; —used with a singular indefinite pronoun antecedent… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Singular “they”

The singular “they” is a generic third-person singular pronoun in English. Use of the singular “they” is endorsed as part of APA Style because it is inclusive of all people and helps writers avoid making assumptions about gender.

apastyle.apa.org

APA: "Also use 'they' as a generic third-person singular pronoun to refer to a person whose gender is unknown or irrelevant to the context of the usage."

Once you've established who you are talking about, the gender of that person is already known... there is nothing wrong with using he or she either, but nobody gets confused about "they" once a person is identified because it's not important in the context of that part of a sentence or paragraph.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

English speakers think that Japanese doesn't have any pronouns. It does have pronouns, they just are understood via context and usually not voiced because they're not necessary.

English speakers think Japanese doesn't have pronouns? I don't think I've ever encountered this... Also, are you saying that they are used, but are just not voiced? That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. They're not necessary most of the time and are not used. When clarifications are required, more often than not the name (or description like "clerk") of the person is just reiterated.

 

[IntentionalPun]

When you join a conversation half-way? when you overhear someone else talking? when a male and female share the same name?

That one is maybe slightly useful but fairly rare.. people still would use "they" all the time though.. it's normal English; the others.. if you have no clue who someone is talking about.... using he or she or they isn't going to really matter.

 

[Pol Pot]

When you join a conversation half-way? when you overhear someone else talking? when a male and female share the same name?

shall I continue? I mean this seems like really common sense stuff.

I suppose if there were no other way to describe a person outside of their gender.
Yes, please continue.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That one is maybe slightly useful but fairly rare.. people still would use "they" all the time though.. it's normal English; the others.. if you have no clue who someone is talking about.... using he or she or they isn't going to really matter.

Not necessarily. I posted this earlier, but I think if most people saw or heard a sentence like this out of the blue:

"So, John and I were at the bar the other day, and they told me the most hilarious thing!"

They would not immediately think the "they" applied to "John." There are plenty of instances that are potentially confusing.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Not necessarily. I posted this earlier, but I think if most people saw or heard a sentence like this out of the blue:

"So, John and I were at the bar the other day, and they told me the most hilarious thing!"

They would not immediately think the "they" applied to "John." There are plenty of instances that are potentially confusing.

That sentence isn't remotely confusing... who else could they be referring to in this sentence?

That is completely normal and common speech.. so normal people don't even pick up on the fact they are using it.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Maybe it was a hot day and he evaporated.

I work in a fiberglass factory, it was hot and not many stay. I know he was 28 years old and it was his first job and his grandma was going to kick him out. His parents kicked him out of the house a few weeks before and he smelled horrible.

If you call somebody out on this craziness in real life, they'll have no one to defend them like on social media and they just give up.

 

[Pol Pot]

Not necessarily. I posted this earlier, but I think if most people saw or heard a sentence like this out of the blue:

"So, John and I were at the bar the other day, and they told me the most hilarious thing!"

They would not immediately think the "they" applied to "John." There are plenty of instances that are potentially confusing.

Anyone with any grasp of the English language would know "they" meant "John".

 

[SidViscous]

That one is maybe slightly useful but fairly rare.. people still would use "they" all the time though.. it's normal English; the others.. if you have no clue who someone is talking about.... using he or she or they isn't going to really matter.

Try playing Guess Who without genders and see how much longer it takes.

 

[funkygunther]

The conditions that have to be true for the possibility that someone might be confused for a second in a conversation are getting more strained

 

[Shouta]

Japanese is a very different language and how pronouns are used is not really comparable to English and how we *need* to use he/she/they to correctly form sentences.

This declaring pronouns business seems to be a distinctly English phenomenon.



Yes, I said as much earlier, but it only works with general nouns, not once you've established a specific individual with a name.

The issue at hand is using they in place of he/she and not the necessity of pronouns in general though. Japanese has them and when they are explicitly used in a sentence there isn't a need to specifically use gendered ones is my point. They have non-gendered ones that work in those situations, specifically because you're supposed to be following the context of the conversation anyway, lol.

It's different in structure and syntax, but that's not getting to the heart of the matter. The point is that human communication, regardless of language, is not necessarily dependent on strict pronoun archetypes for 100% clear communication. That's one of the reasons Japanese is so confusing to English speakers, because English speakers think that Japanese doesn't have any pronouns. It does have pronouns, they just are understood via context and usually not voiced because they're not necessary.

Yep and when they're voiced, they have a ton of pronouns that run the gamut from gender specific ones like 彼 or 彼女 to non-specific やつ and the positioned based variants.

Nah, there is a reason why people tend to use gendered pronouns, and that is it minimises confusion. It acts as a soft checksum of sorts, if midway into a sentence somebody says 'and then she..' but you thought they were talking about a male, you can immediately respond with 'wait what I thought you were talking about..'

by using gendered pronouns you add an extra degree of error-correction to someones understanding of your sentence. Which over time, has resulted in the gendered pronouns being used as standard in most conversational English. Any words that have even a minor advantage grammatically (or are just easier to pronounce!) will become the standard due to how languages constantly evolve and optimise themselves.

Forcing yourself to use "they" the whole conversation, when someone is blatantly male of female, is fucking stupid. People join conversations mid-way in the real (non-clown) world.

That's not a particularly useful advantage though. If the person started talking a totally different man, then you're going to be as lost as well even if you were using the gendered pronoun. The only solution there is to actually pay attention to the conversation, lol

 

[Pol Pot]

The conditions that have to be true for the possibility that someone might be confused for a second in a conversation are getting more strained

It's almost like it's not about that at all

 

[SidViscous]

The conditions that have to be true for the possibility that someone might be confused for a second in a conversation are getting more strained

Evolution only needs tiny incremental improvements. I'm not saying English needs gendered pronouns, plenty of languages get by without them. But not going to pretend they are completely useless and have no place in modern English just because a small minority of people are upset with their own identity and would rather we started every sentence with full name, national insurance number and fursona.

That's not a particularly useful advantage though.

But it is an advantage, why not take it?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That sentence isn't remotely confusing... who else could they be referring to in this sentence?

That is completely normal and common speech.. so normal people don't even pick up on the fact they are using it.

Anyone with any grasp of the English language would know "they" meant "John".

Huh, well, OK then. I disagree.

If an individual with a name and known gender is stated and then “they” is used, I would not immediately think it applied to the aforementioned individual, especially if the context allowed that other yet unstated people may also be in the scene, so to speak.

 

[Pol Pot]

Huh, well, OK then. I disagree.

If an individual with a name and known gender is stated and then “they” is used, I would not immediately think it applied to the aforementioned individual, especially if the context allowed that other yet unstated people may also be in the scene, so to speak.

Agree to disagree. That is how the language is structured, however.

 

[Kamina]

If you have a peepee i refer to you as “he”
If you have a hoohoo i refer to you as “she”
If you have neither or both its an unlikely coincidence and i refer to you whatever you look closest to because i don’t give a shit for made up nonsense.

 

[Ailynn]

It's refreshing and actually relieving to see everyone debating on just the simple "they/them" pronouns instead of this whole "neo-pronouns" mess.


I only know one person that used they/them as their pronouns (although they now have changed it to he/them or something similar, so I will use "he" for them from here forward.) He's are a very cool person but still quite young and grew up in Portland, OR...so I imagine the whole non-binary thing is almost cultural there.

From his blog entries from a couple of years ago, it was very obvious that he had been suffering gender dysphoria since his early teen years as female puberty started feminizing his body. I can certainly understand that as I suffered in the opposite direction.

I believe that he hasn't gone completely "he/him" yet due to worrying about the possibility of gaining new dysphoria that the effects of testosterone therapy would have on his body. That's where I believe a lot of non-binary people come from...they don't really want the sex-characteristics of either sex.


Really, though...most people have things about their bodies that they are self-conscious about. It's normal for everyone at some point in our lives. We all have to grow up and grow old, and our bodies will be going through all sorts of changes all our lives. It's what we can accept and live with while living in society that drives a lot of this I suppose.

That said, where before it was such a miniscule amount of people suffering gender dysphoria and needing to transition sex just so we could fit into society without wishing for death every day, now it seems to be a growing social craze to go against social norms. Far too many people want to be different or special...it's becoming a "look at me" type thing. Many of these young people self-diagnose and collect gender neo-pronouns and disabilities and/or mental illnesses like they are Pokemon.


I just want to blend in and not be seen. That's what it used to be for most transgender people...although I'm so tired of what the umbrella term "transgender" is becoming that I usually now just use the old medical term transsexual (even though that's apparently a no-no word now.)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The issue at hand is using they in place of he/she and not the necessity of pronouns in general though. Japanese has them and when they are explicitly used in a sentence there isn't a need to specifically use gendered ones is my point. They have non-gendered ones that work in those situations, specifically because you're supposed to be following the context of the conversation anyway, lol.

Yep and when they're voiced, they have a ton of pronouns that run the gamut from gender specific ones like 彼 or 彼女 to non-specific やつ and the positioned based variants.

In Japanese, as I imagine you know, which pronoun is most appropriate in any given situation more often depends on your relationship with the person in question, relative social standing, and whether or not you have an intent to offend.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Interesting.

It's almost like using "they" is normal and natural common English (and grammatically correct too), once it's been established a single person is the subject, regardless of their gender (much like the term their, which is used for both groups, and individuals)

Yeah ok thats great, now image that he changed his gender 4 times a week for a month. Then complained when you couldn't tell when he was Brad and then when he was Brandy. Hell I remember he changed to non gender specific after three hours of work. I honestly only thought these people existed on the internet. Apparently Ohio didn't prepare me for this shit.

 

[Rentahamster]

English speakers think Japanese doesn't have pronouns? I don't think I've ever encountered this...

You haven't encountered newbie Japanese learners using 私 and あなた waaaayyyyy too many times more than naturally necessary?

Also, are you saying that they are used, but are just not voiced? That doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Yes, that's what I said. In native Japanese communication the incidents of pronoun use that is actually vocalized or written is much lower than English, but that doesn't mean the pronouns disappear. At their basic level of utilization, pronouns are the substitute for nouns. but as long as we're following the context of the conversation, that subject or object is already known and understood, which is why they aren't written or spoken in Japanese as much as they are in English. In English, we understand the context of the nouns in play, which is why we can substitute them for pronouns. If you take that one step further, because we already understand the context of the nouns in play, there's no reason why we can't just drop the pronouns entirely from being voiced/written as Japanese does it. If you really wanted to, you could manually add back in all the right pronouns into a Japanese sentence, and you'd be able to do that because you already understand the context of the sentence.

They're not necessary most of the time and are not used. When clarifications are required, more often than not the name (or description like "clerk") of the person is just reiterated.

Which is why the scenario in the OP of legal confusion or whatever is not a real concern.

 

[Pol Pot]

Yeah ok thats great, now image that he changed his gender 4 times a week for a month. Then complained when you couldn't tell when he was Brad and then when he was Brandy. Hell I remember he changed to non gender specific after three hours of work. I honestly only thought these people existed on the internet. Apparently Ohio didn't prepare me for this shit.

I was raised in Ohio. Everything outside of Cuyahoga county is North Kentucky/West Virginia.

 

[Shouta]

In Japanese, as I imagine you know, which pronoun is most appropriate in any given situation more often depends on your relationship with the person in question, relative social standing, and whether or not you have an intent to offend.

Sure, I'm just pointing out non-gendered pronouns exist in Japanese and when used, are pretty much natural

Person A: A組の健太、覚えている？　最近会っていた。
Person B: ああ、覚えているよ！彼は今なにをしているんだ？

あいつ could be used instead of 彼 and you'd still know the conversation is about Kenta. Japanese is unique in that you could drop the pronoun and it'd still be understandable but あいつ and 彼 is more precise.

You haven't encountered newbie Japanese learners using 私 and あなた waaaayyyyy too many times more than naturally necessary?

I remember doing this when I started learning Japanese back in the day

 

[Joshmyersbv]

I was raised in Ohio. Everything outside of Cuyahoga county is North Kentucky/West Virginia.

I was raised in Delaware out in the country.

 

[Pol Pot]

I was raised in Delaware out in the country.

Akron. Shout out to my fellow buckeye.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yeah ok thats great, now image that he changed his gender 4 times a week for a month. Then complained when you couldn't tell when he was Brad and then when he was Brandy. Hell I remember he changed to non gender specific after three hours of work. I honestly only thought these people existed on the internet. Apparently Ohio didn't prepare me for this shit.

I get it.. was just relating your post back to the thread title..

 

[dorkimoe]

It's deluded nonsense. Just don't pay any attention to it. Normal people in the real world don't use "they" to refer to a single person (small exceptions apply).

Agreed.
MY other complaint is people who DO NOT need to be using pronouns using them. If you were born male and still a male do not put he/him in your bio or email or whatever. Knock it off. Even some trans people find that annoying

 

[IntentionalPun]

Huh, well, OK then. I disagree.

If an individual with a name and known gender is stated and then “they” is used, I would not immediately think it applied to the aforementioned individual, especially if the context allowed that other yet unstated people may also be in the scene, so to speak.

When would anyone use a pronoun to describe an unstated person or group of people?

pronoun: a word that can function by itself as a noun phrase and that refers either to the participants in the discourse (e.g., I, you ) or to someone or something mentioned elsewhere in the discourse (e.g., she, it, this ).

Pronouns are always used in place of a subject already identified... that's true of whether someone uses he, or they.

Do people get confused when their is used in place of his or hers? That's even more common.

He is definitely more descriptive than they... but neither are particularly descriptive... if someone is really that confused, then something else is wrong with the sentence or paragraph.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Akron. Shout out to my fellow buckeye.

Lol same

 

[SidViscous]

Agreed.
MY other complaint is people who DO NOT need to be using pronouns using them. If you were born male and still a male do not put he/him in your bio or email or whatever. Knock it off. Even some trans people find that annoying

Shhh, I love that people do this as it's a super quick way of knowing who to completely fucking ignore

 

[Azzurri]

Akron. Shout out to my fellow buckeye

Raised in Columbus, Ohio

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You haven't encountered newbie Japanese learners using 私 and あなた waaaayyyyy too many times more than naturally necessary?

Yes, of course. I must not be understanding what you're saying, because those are pronouns, so why would someone who overuses them think Japanese doesn't have pronouns?

Yes, that's what I said. In native Japanese communication the incidents of pronoun use that is actually vocalized or written is much lower than English, but that doesn't mean the pronouns disappear.

If they aren't said or written, then I would argue that yes, that does mean they disappear. The subject being implied does not mean that invisible or inaudible pronouns are being used. It just means they aren't necessary.

If you really wanted to, you could manually add back in all the right pronouns into a Japanese sentence, and you'd be able to do that because you already understand the context of the sentence.

If you did that it would sound extremely unnatural and awkward in almost every scenario.

Sure, I'm just pointing out non-gendered pronouns exist in Japanese and when used, are pretty much natural

Person A: A組の健太、覚えている？　最近会っていた。
Person B: ああ、覚えているよ！彼は今なにをしているんだ？

あいつ could be used instead of 彼 and you'd still know the conversation is about Kenta. Japanese is unique in that you could drop the pronoun and it'd still be understandable but あいつ and 彼 is more precise.

I would argue that is more of a difference of "what's that dude up to?" vs. "what's that fucker up to?" All of the Japanese pronouns lack the universality and versatility (in that you can use them regardless of your relationship to the subject) of he/she and are used more like how we would use "that girl"/"that guy" or "that person" in English with added layers of honorific nuance.

 

[Pol Pot]

Raised in Columbus, Ohio

Think OSU basketball will ever be good again?