Teletraan1
Banned
Also long lines at the border as they are checking people's cars. My 62 y/o mother was stopped for 30m while her car was searched when she went to see my aunt who lives in the US.
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Not enough pot for Canada
- Thread starter cryptoadam
- Start date
Papa
Banned
Are you playing dumb or what? Smoke does not confine itself to a small radius. There are many things you can't do in public because they encroach on personal space and the point I am making is that it shouldn't be legal to smoke it in public. It's not the same as tobacco as it is a psychoactive drug. Are you aware that many jobs have zero tolerance drug policies and random testing for OH&S purposes? My job should not be at risk because of your selfish desire to smoke in public.
The main point is that we should not go from an outright ban to just open slather freedom to smoke it anywhere you please. Legalise it for private use and if you can't smoke in your apartment, too fucking bad. Go somewhere that you can.
badblue
Gold Member
You are the one that said I had an "incredibly weak argument" so I expanded on my argument, and clarified my thoughts on the matter. You don't have an argument at all. You have an opinion, that is frankly contrary to what is currently legal. There are very few things that I can do in public that are legal that also encroach on your rights and quietly smoking a joint on the side walk is not one of them, so long as I am in an area that permits me to do so. There are no "offensive smell ordinances" in a public area. (There are however public intoxication laws, and I fully support you to report any intoxicated person regardless of what made them intoxicated.) In fact, this opinion of yours may infringe on the rights of someone that is using cannabis as medication. Their right to use their medicine is a little more important then your personal space. You may not like it and that is your right. You can do something about it, such as contacting your city council and your MLA. But you have to realize that just because you do not like something does not change what is legal. Which ties into my next point.
I am very well versed in the drug policies that are in place. In fact, I am currently unemployed and I am not able to consume cannabis at all, as the oil and gas industry in Alberta is going to be holding on to that urine test and will be for a long while. I don't like it, and I express my dislike for that at every opportunity that I can (I am looking into filing a Human Rights suit against it should the unions fail to have it removed during our next collective bargain agreement early next year). But they cannot hold that policy in place forever without risking court challenges and lawsuits. I don't like it, but they are legally able to do that for now. The Cannabis Act does state that discrimination against cannabis users is not allowed, and that directly conflicts with the urine testing policies which is simple discrimination against cannabis users. It cannot do anything more then prove use. You cannot legally prohibit anyone from consuming a legal product when you are not paying them and/or they are not on your property. Absolutely no company in Canada has stated (publicly) that they are prohibiting their employees from consuming cannabis. What they have done is enacted de facto bans on consumption of cannabis. Even the polices forces that have stated that their officers cannot consume cannabis within 28 days of their shift never said that they can not consume at all. None of the oil companies have said it either.
Keep in mind that there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that cannabis use is effecting someone days and weeks after consumption, which is an argument that gets used many times when I bring up that I believe that people should be able to consume cannabis when they are off work. This was something that was examined by Health Canada long before the Cannabis Act was voted on and they found no conclusive risk. That may change in time, but until then...
Random drug testing. Now that is an interesting argument... considering that it has been upheld in court numerous times and in many provinces that it is a violation of our rights under the Canadian Charter. This is including "safety sensitive" industries such as the ones I work in. Suncor has not won that battle yet. If you under a contract that allows it, I am sorry that you signed it.
"I don't like this so they should not be allowed to do this" is not an argument. You have a little bit of one under the ideas of drug testing... but simply walking past someone in the street is not enough for a detectable amount of THC to enter your system. And if you are around people, socially, that are smoking you have two choices, Ask them not to do that around you because -insert reasons here- or walk away.
Personally, I don't believe that people should be walking around smoking weed all day just because they can. But i don't think that is should be outlawed either.
Oh and not all strains of Cannabis are psychoactive. There are strains that contains zero THC but you could never tell that simply from the smell.
Papa
Banned
Your entire argument hinges on it being legal to smoke cannabis in public, which I don't believe it is in Canada. As far as I'm aware, it's an enforcement issue, and I hope that the initial honeymoon period will end quickly. Your argument is weak because it's based on your own selfish desire to smoke cannabis wherever you like with no regard for others around you. There has been so much progress made in the last couple decades in reducing public tobacco consumption, so why the hell should we take 10 steps back and encourage public cannabis consumption?
I also work in the resources industry and have a completely different opinion to you. We have enough problems with workers showing up over the blood alcohol limit without having another recreational drug to be abused. I don't know what level of the organisation you are in, but I have been in positions where it's my cock on the block, so to speak, if one such worker injures himself (or worse, someone else).
You're taking the piss if you think that a large proportion of the people smoking cannabis in public are doing so for medical reasons. There are plenty of places such people can go to get their medicinal cannabis, and it doesn't have to be smoked.
badblue
Gold Member
I do agree that that is an issue, but please understand my position on this. I am not against testing workers to make sure they are not intoxicated at work if there is reason to do so. It is a huge safety risk. And I strongly believe that we are our brothers keeper and we should be looking out for the safety of our self's and others on the job including ratting out drunk or high coworkers. I am however, against the tests cannot in any fashion determine that someone is high at work. A urine test does not, and can not show if someone has been intoxicated any time recently, only that they have in the past, consumed cannabis. And it's not even a very good test at detecting other substances which is why people have moved on to harder, and more dangerous drugs in the oil patch.
And for the record, I do not have a "selfish desire to smoke cannabis where ever I want with no regard to who is around me". I have a selfish desire to want to be able to smoke cannabis on my deck while I am unemployed, so long as the neighbors granddaughter is not in their yard playing.
Other then that, I now see that you have some very good arguments and I am going to have to reevaluate my position on a few topics... Thank you for that.
ThatStupidLion
Member
has canada restocked yet?
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
It is not a criminal offense to smoke cannabis in public. The same regulations for tobacco use (and alcohol) in public often applies to cannabis, so no progress has been lost - you cannot smoke indoors in public, for example. Provinces and municipalities can further regulate it to certain extents, these are provincial or municipal offenses (think bylaws, traffic tickets etc). I don't know about the rest of Canada, but on the west coast, BC and AB it is legal to smoke in public, but it is offense to consume cannabis in vehicles or in areas frequented by children (schools, parks etc). So suggesting that is federal Canada-wide ban on general public use is disingenuous.
I can assure you that resources industries, like the ones in AB particularly, test for drugs frequently and work quite hard to keep sites safe. Drugs has always been a problem for these types of industries - and not just since legalization of pot. Drugs hasn't suddenly become easier to acquire. A lot of these camps are already completely "dry" for reasons of safety and legality. It isn't permitted to operate machinery under the influence of pot in the same way it isn't for alcohol. This act does not change anything regarding this.
What does it have to do with you if they are smoking in public for medical reasons or not? It has been LEGALIZED for recreational purposes in Canada. Oh, but it put a damper on your 1 week trip to Vancouver? So fucking what. This has frequented the news since Trudeau's election in 2015 and if it spoiled your trip to the extent that your are saying it has then you shouldn't have chose to visit. Anyone would have told you that the Vancouver PD have essentially turned a blind eye to public sales/consumption when it is consumed in a respectful way. The city has been issuing municipal licenses for years - you should have done your research! Particularly if your employer is so backwards and repressive they would fire you for a microscopic amount of second-hand THC in your system. There have been studies and you would need to be engorged in smoke for hours for THC to reliably show up in your urine and even then it will only show up for around 6 hours. You would also need to breathe in second-hand smoke within 30 minutes of a drugs test for it to show up in your saliva in an oral test.
This is no different to some cities/councils in Australia allowing public consumption of alcohol on the beach, parks or gardens while others do not allow it. Though, it is not unusual to see alcohol consumption in these public places too. Talking of Australia, I went to Whistler, BC for 2 nights on the weekend in January this year (with my kids) for my birthday. Turns out if was Australia Day on the same day we arrived. Apparently, outrageous levels of public intoxication, urination on public buildings and horrific language is an expected (yet unofficial) annual event there, or so I was told by the exhausted hotel staff. Groups of Australians spent all night running up and down the hotel hallways banging on doors and screaming. In contrast, the Canadian "selfish desire" to quietly consume cannabis in their own cities is not such an annoyance - though I respect that you may have never engaged in this type of behavior on Australia Day and I do apologize for the inconvenience Canadian pot smokers apparently caused you when you chose to visit our city.
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Papa
Banned
Christ, you potheads are a sensitive bunch, aren't you?
What does it have to do with me? Your increased liberty should not come at the expense of mine. As I've said multiple times, I'm in favour of legal cannabis for private use, whether recreational or medicinal. What I'm not in favour of is shitting up otherwise beautiful cities with the rank smell of cannabis on every street corner. Why are you going to such extremes and telling me that I shouldn't visit and have no right to complain? It can only be because your pothead victimhood complex is overriding your ability to see how selfish it is to smoke it in public.
What the fuck do dickhead Aussies acting like cunts in Whistler have to do with me? Do you think I'm in favour of them behaving like that? And why do you speak on behalf of all Canadians? Do you know how many locals I discussed the problem with who completely agreed with me? Selfish ass.
Firstly, I’m not a “pothead” - I don’t smoke cannabis, at least for a long time. I have a close family member that relies on cannabis. I am sensitive to people saying she is “selfish” or “shitting up the city” by using it whenever necessary.
Let’s pretend I’m a vegetarian tourist who doesn’t like the smell of barbecue at the beach or a public parks and because barbecue smoke has carcinogens in it; can I come to Australia and complain that their “actions is infringing in my own liberties for pleasant smells while I’m a tourist here” - that’s what your basically sound like. A whiny busybody.
Its got everything to do with you, because you think that it’s OK to direct other people’s lifestyles which is far more intrusive than marijuana smoke. You’re not the centre of world, you’re thoughts and feelings do not trump other people’s lifestyle choices. You’re the selfish one because you come to a foreign country and start complaining about a lifestyle that has no impact on your own and insulting cannabis users and “selfish” and “shitting up the cities”. You’re a hypocrite and people who are intolerant of other’s lifestyle choices are out of touch in modern cities like Vancouver.
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Nymphae
Banned
Second hand marijuana smoke can get people high. As a daily user, I'm all for keeping it out of public places so kids and people who opt not to take mind altering substances will not have it effect them.
In what situations would passive smoking get someone high? The study I posted above shows that people who sat indoors, in Amsterdam coffee shops for three hours surrounded by smoke only had trace amounts of THC (for anyone not aware, that’s the mind-altering psychoactive part) in their blood for up to 3.5h after exposure.
Public places frequented by children and indoor locations are already banned across Canada. Walking past someone or being in the vicinity of someone who is smoking a joint outdoors is not going to get you high whatsoever.
I would think general air pollutants in urban areas like sulfer dioxide, carbon monoxide and ammonia gasses from farming activities in rural areas are much more of a concern for public health. Let’s face it, the smell of exhaust fumes and fertilizers are a far more offensive too.
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Nymphae
Banned
Anecdotally, I've had people (adult non-smokers) tell me they felt different after being around the smoke for maybe 10 minutes. We're not talking about tripping balls, but dry mouth, a small amount of dizziness, maybe slight feeling of nausea. I tend to believe these people when they are telling me their bodies feel different, maybe it's all in their heads though.
You can't tell me you know that a child being in the vicinity of someone who is smoking a joint outdoors is going to have no effect whatsoever.
Edit: On the topic of kids and weed, I was playing disc golf the other day and was smoking a joint in a little wooded area beside one of the holes. A dude started to walk up with his kid in a stroller. As he approached I said, "hey man I've got this going here maybe you wanna stay over there or I can put it out...", he just says nah man it's cool she's around it all the time! And I passed it to him and we talked briefly. But I was just thinking to myself, is this is how people think about this stuff now? If it were me I wouldn't be smoking near my kids and would do my best to keep them away from it.
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I said it won’t get them high. The study shows that a 3 hour indoor presence in a smoke filled “coffee shop” in Amsterdam only absorbed a trace amount of the psychoactive element.
If I smoked weed at a campsite, the neighbouring campsite is not going to get high. If I’m in my tent smoking weed for a few hours with a non-smoker, they may absorb “trace amounts” of THC and presumably, some mild effects of that. Though, I assume we’re not talking about hotboxing kids (which I agree would be wholly irresponsible) and we’re talking about people keeping respectful distances and maintaining reasonable levels of privacy in outdoor locations, as per the existing regulations.
Given that smokers already have to stay away from children when they smoke weed, I don’t see why we have to further shame people who are seeking a private outdoor location in a public place so that they doing it at home, which (by these standards of any minuscule THC presence in the air is bad) can easily affect their kids, their neighbours or their neighbours kids etc.
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Nymphae
Banned
You make good points. I'm just in favour of people being considerate with their usage.
All I know is, the other day when I was getting groceries, I walked back to my car and caught a HUGE wave of pot as I got in my car. Yeah, it's probably not going to have long term effects on the kids walking by it. But pre-legalization, I can only think of 1 time that happened. It hasn't even been a week and I'm already smelling it in places I shouldn't. Perhaps due to the laws being new and shiny, or perhaps due to people just not giving a shit.
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The smells stick to clothing and hair for a long time. When I catch a whiff, I presume it’s the smell of someone who smoked a joint an hour ago, rather than the actual smoke from a burning joint. The smell can exist long after any second-hand smoke has dissipated.
another reason why that Australian tourist who was complaining about the smell in public locations doesn’t make a good argument - you could still smoke a joint on private land, then go to any public location where anyone could smell it.
Nymphae
Banned
I caught the smoke blowing at me as I was getting in my car lol, there was no mistaking it. I'm a daily user, I can tell the difference between lingering smells on clothes and a fucking cloud of pot smoke (not like I'd need to be a daily user to notice the difference)
badblue
Gold Member
I'd just like to point out that the detectable limits that the study talks about for THC was 0.5 ng/ml. Yes the study did show that the THC-COOH was detectable at a much higher concentration during that time, but that just means that your body is metabolizing the active THC almost immediately into the non-active THC-COOH. To get a high, you'd need to overwhelm your bodies metabolism.
And that seems to be backed up under this study which says:
Key words there being ventilated and unventilated.
And I know I had to go to the second page of google to find that study, because everything on the first page was full of news articles saying that "studies show you can get a contact high from second hand cannabis smoke". So here is a peer review study that identified 1701 abstracts , 60 proceeded to full-text review; the final data set contained 15 articles.
So basically, in a real world context, simply smelling cannabis smoke has zero practical risk when you are out doors. I am glad to know that it is extremely unlikely that I can fail a drug test from walking past someone smoking a joint on the street, and that if my wife is smoking a joint inside the house it is not going to have any significant long term to my ability to pass a drug test so long as we open a window or two first.
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I didn’t say you couldn’t tell the difference. For me, personally, I can’t tell if it’s the smell of someone exhaling smoke, or the smell lingering on clothing. I also tend not to care too much either way.
Papa
Banned
You would have a point if I was advocating for keeping cannabis criminalised, but I'm not, and have said this multiple times. There are multiple ways that your family member can consume her medicinal cannabis, and I don't believe that smoking it in public should be one of them. You seem to speak on behalf of all Canadians as though your personal view is ubiquitous, but I can assure you it's not.
It's a terrible equivalence comparing the smell of meat, which humans as omnivores need to consume for sustenance, to the smell of a psychoactive drug being smoked for in public recreational purposes. You know what would make me "a whiny busybody"? Complaining about someone smoking it on their own private property. Complaining about getting cannabis smoke blown in my face as I'm walking down the street to a conference does not make me a whiny busybody. As you rightly pointed out in another post, the smell of cannabis clings to clothing and hair for a long time.
Also, cut the passive aggressive bullshit like "that Australian tourist" in your other post. It's transparent as hell, and I reiterate that you are being a selfish ass by thinking that your right to smoke cannabis in public is more important than everyone else's right to fresh air. Make whatever lifestyle choices you want, just don't negatively affect mine in the process.
Kenpachii
Member
Just do what the netherlands do. Put rules forwards to limit it as much as possible but still allow it.
Canada will realize soon enough that what they are currently doing isn't going to work well for them.
About smoking in public in amsterdam:
In short you can smoke outside perfectly fine ( yet, they also want to change this for health reasons ) but not smoke drugs.
These rules have been tuned over the ages because of problems that started to exist.
If you want to smoke drugs, go to designated area's to do so like coffee shops or do it at home and don't bother anybody else with it.
Canada will realize soon enough that what they are currently doing isn't going to work well for them.
About smoking in public in amsterdam:
In short you can smoke outside perfectly fine ( yet, they also want to change this for health reasons ) but not smoke drugs.
These rules have been tuned over the ages because of problems that started to exist.
If you want to smoke drugs, go to designated area's to do so like coffee shops or do it at home and don't bother anybody else with it.
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You say you need to consume meat for sustenance, but do you really need to do it in public parks and beaches?
I don't talk on behalf of Canadians, I'm explaining to you what we are legally allowed to do. You said you "didn't believe" we were legally allowed. I'm still having to explain to you that we are.
I pointed out the smell of Cannabis clings to clothing and hair, so why does it matter if it is smoked publicly or privately? presumably you would be able to smell it no matter where it is smoked?
How does someone smoking cannabis prevent you from accessing fresh air? Surely, regular cigarettes, barbecues, vehicle emissions, industrial exhausts, agricultural fertilizers and insecticides have a significantly worse impact on fresh air? I thought you worked in the resources industry?
What's wrong with describing you as a "tourist"? How does my lifestyle choice in Canada affect you in Australia? Don't come to Canada if you don't like our laws. That is what I have said to you.
If someone blew cannabis smoke in your face in Canada, then that is disgusting, actually a criminal assault and obviosuly not what I am defending. you should report it - but, because you seem a bit "sketchy" and a bit of an "attention whore" I'm gonna decide I don't believe you.
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badblue
Gold Member
These people were doing this long before pot was legal in Canada, and they are going to continue to do so. Assholes are going to be assholes, and I'm sorry that that happened. But you do seem to be painting every Canadian with that same brush, but 99% of Canadians are not doing that. But sadly that is going to leave 360,000 people, most of whom are in the major metropolitan centers like Vancouver and Toronto that are going to be assholes.
We do have rules that limit this, and those rules are going to be changing as time goes one. This is a growth period coupled with a lot of excited people the novelty of a brand new legal substance.
In many places here in Canada, coffee shops like they have in Amsterdam are not going to be allowed due to the laws we have on smoking which our cannabis laws are hooked to, since it was easier to do that then come up with a whole new set of laws. But this is having the side effect of pushing all smoking out of areas. Our 5 meter buffer around doors and air intakes was increased to 10 meters following legalization. There is one street in my city that is full of bars, that is now, pretty much nonsmoking. Almost 15 city blocks where no one is allowed to smoke at all, except the assholes that are just going to do what ever they want regardless of the rules.
Papa
Banned
No, you don't need to consume meat in public parks and beaches, but it's not on the same level as someone claiming they need to smoke cannabis in public. What does Ree call that? Oh yeah, a false equivalence.
The arrogant way you speak sure makes it sound as though you're trying to speak on behalf of all Canadians. Prior to my week in Vancouver, I spent a month in Edmonton and I can tell you that most of my colleagues there were against the impending legalisation, even for private use. I'm not going that far - I'm only opposed to public smoking. I wouldn't be opposed to public edibles, just smoking. Is it or is it not legal to smoke it in public? I've got you telling me it is, and others telling me it's not. A quick google search tells me that in Ontario, it can be smoked wherever tobacco can, but it varies from province to province. Regardless, my argument isn't about whether it is legal to smoke it in public, it's about whether it should be.
"Why does it matter if it is smoked publicly or privately?" Is that a serious question? For starters, I'm not in your private space, so the smell of your privately smoked cannabis isn't going to cling to my clothing or hair. Why would you presume that I would be able to smell it no matter where it is smoked? You're effectively arguing there's no difference between public and private space. What are you even trying to prove here?
I've been enjoying the increasing restrictions on public tobacco consumption in recent years, so it's not relevant to the discussion. Barbecues are most often used in public areas, but as noted above, someone using a barbecue at a beach or public park is not equivalent to someone recreationally smoking cannabis in public. Vehicle emissions are a fact of public life since they're a utility that people use to be productive members of society. You also can't drive your vehicle in your own home. Industrial exhausts, agricultural fertilizers, insecticides, etc. don't affect me as I'm walking down the street and I'm certain there would be legal restrictions if someone wanted to emit them in public. Just dumb examples all around.
It's a straight-up conversation ender to tell me not to come to Canada if I don't like people smoking cannabis in public. It's arrogant as hell because it implies there is no conversation to be had and that you're right, I'm wrong by default. It's also a new law, so of course there are going to be teething issues and discussions that need to happen during the transition period. Your "lifestyle choice" can take place in your own home where it doesn't affect anyone else's lifestyle.
This reply chain probably wouldn't have escalated as it did if you didn't come in here and act like a condescending prick and immediately dismiss what I believe is a legitimate discussion point. At no point have I advocated for criminalising cannabis use; I have only complained about my own personal space being compromised as I walked down public streets, but your vicarious victimhood complex on behalf of your family member has taken control of your ability to comprehend and rationalise. Smoke it in your home, ingest it, do whatever you want with it so long as you don't blow it in my face.
Why are you chasing me across threads? You're effectively trying to paint me as a deplorable to "win" the argument based on a comment I made in another thread which you have clearly not understood the context of.
Papa
Banned
Yeah, those people are assholes, but I doubt they were anywhere near as common before the legalisation. They've been emboldened to smoke it wherever they want and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it. I think it will cause social problems in the long run because my views on it are not some extreme minority. I'm definitely not painting all Canadians with that brush, and I don't know where you're getting that impression from. In my observation (and I'm not necessarily levelling this as an accusation at you), there is a bit of a victimhood complex with cannabis advocates, and any even slightly dissenting voice is taken as some kind of grievous threat that needs to be attacked. It's obvious in B BadHand 's comments above, because he doesn't even seem to comprehend that the only thing I'm arguing against is public smoking. Private smoking, private ingestion, public ingestion are all fair game imo.
In one of my earlier posts, I suggested that the current prevalence of public smoking is a result of the new laws, i.e. a honeymoon period, so I agree with you there. I hope that it calms down in time, though enforcement of public smoking laws (and implementing such laws if they don't exist) is necessary to achieve that imo.
I think
Kenpachii
makes great points. The Dutch have been doing this far longer than Canadians, so why not use them as a blueprint?No, I replied to you because you said (to another member) that you "didn't believe it was legal" to smoke it in public. That is what you said. Not that you didn't believe it shouldn't be legal to smoke in public. If you bothered to do your "quick google search" 48 hours ago none of this would be discussed, because I wouldn't have had to correct you. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm giving you the facts of law. I'm not dismissing your concerns, i'm actually pointing out your incorrect assumptions on legality in Canada and THC ingestion through passive smoking. I hoped I could assist you in getting the facts rather than making arguments on false assumptions. I explained what you have only just figured out through google in my first post to you in this thread.
I haven't victimized myself or my family member once, but you've victimized yourself multiple times - this is all about you not liking the smell of cannabis and believing your private space and clean air have been compromised by the devil's lettuce. But naturally, only air that has been polluted by disgusting marijuana smells and all other air pollutants, including those produced through your own employment in the resources industry, are not important, right?
I presume you would you be happy if your neighbor smoked cannabis on his private property then? Would you be happy if they smoked in it their yard while your kids played outside? I believe that finding a quiet public location with lots of privacy is a reasonable proposition, particularly if you live in rented accommodations or a HOA that prevents cannabis use on private property. That doesn't mean I'm advocating for blowing cannabis smoke in other people faces, or hot-boxing children in the car on their way to school. There are already regulations that render most of your concerns about cannabis use obsolete, but you insist on parroting them like they are fact.
I also have made no attempt to speak on behalf of all Canadian like you claim. The only person doing that is you, with your anecdotal 1 week in Vancouver and 1 month in Edmonton based on what a handful of your "colleagues" think.
Oh, you're such a martyr - and we have the victimhood complex?
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Papa
Banned
"I don't believe it's legal" is a far cry from "it's not legal". Saying "I don't believe..." leaves one open to correction, and you decided to take to that opening with a sledgehammer like a good little victim. If I'm wrong, feel free to gently correct me, but don't tell me to fuck off back to my own country if I don't like it. That's where this reply chain went on a downward spiral. That said, it's still not even clear to me whether it is legal to smoke in public outside of Ontario. You say it is, others in here say it isn't. Clear that up for me before you act like a condescending prick for something that should be soooo obvious, even to a simple-minded tourist.
When you say "I believe that finding a quiet public location with lots of privacy is a reasonable proposition", you're twisting the argument in an effort to backtrack, because you know that's not what my argument was ever about.
Yeah, you do have a victimhood complex, as evidenced by:
1. Your virulent reaction to my complaint about public smoking.
2. The way you brought up your family member who so desperately needs cannabis to live, but god forbid she use edibles or even liquid THC.
You are starting to get damn right offensive. I never said my family member needs it "to live". I also never told you to "fuck off back to your own country". This is downright disgusting behavior and you should be embarrassed at your childish reaction here.
I'm not backtracking, if you go back a re-read my posts you will see that I've never advocated for anything other than private, respectful locations, away from children. Your posts about angry rude and selfish Canadians blowing smoke directly into your face is an emotional knee-jerk argument that has only just been brought up by you.
My "virulent reaction" was simply a correction to your incorrect assumptions, although it may not have been "gentle" enough for your liking. You said you didn't believe it was legal - I informed you it was legal in BC and AB to use cannabis in public and not a federal offense. If you're still confused about cannabis laws in Canada, look up the Cannabis Act for the federal regulations - you apparently know how to use google?
Here is what I said that was so upsetting to you?
Papa
Banned
Oh, my mistake, I guess I misunderstood what you were insinuating with these comments then:
The only people I suggested are "selfish" and "shitting up the cities" are the ones who think it's perfectly reasonable to smoke wherever they want. You are the one who is taking that as "posts about angry rude and selfish Canadians". I did have two people blow it in my face when I was walking around in downtown Vancouver. Were they Canadian? Maybe, I don't know. At no point did I paint that as "angry rude and selfish Canadians". My problem is with the people who blew the smoke in my face and general public smoking, not Canadians as a whole.
badblue
Gold Member
Yeah, those people are assholes, but I doubt they were anywhere near as common before the legalisation. They've been emboldened to smoke it wherever they want and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it. I think it will cause social problems in the long run because my views on it are not some extreme minority. I'm definitely not painting all Canadians with that brush, and I don't know where you're getting that impression from. In my observation (and I'm not necessarily levelling this as an accusation at you), there is a bit of a victimhood complex with cannabis advocates, and any even slightly dissenting voice is taken as some kind of grievous threat that needs to be attacked. It's obvious in B BadHand 's comments above, because he doesn't even seem to comprehend that the only thing I'm arguing against is public smoking. Private smoking, private ingestion, public ingestion are all fair game imo.
In one of my earlier posts, I suggested that the current prevalence of public smoking is a result of the new laws, i.e. a honeymoon period, so I agree with you there. I hope that it calms down in time, though enforcement of public smoking laws (and implementing such laws if they don't exist) is necessary to achieve that imo.
I think
Prior to legalization, pot culture in BC was a thing pretty much since the hippies ran to BC as Vietnam draft dodgers. And has been one of the biggest hubs in Canada that pushed for legal pot. I remember 10 years ago, reading stories in the news paper about the illegal pot shops in Vancouver, and every time one was shut down, two more would open. And some of these pot shops had tables set up on the side walk out side of them, so that people could sit there and smoke the pot they just bought. So pot in at least Vancouver has been somewhat unofficially decriminalized for a long while so you are going to get a lot more people that just don't care there, then in other parts of Canada. Then from Vancouver, it branched out to the major metropolitan areas out east, like Toronto.
And it has always been an uphill battle for pot advocates so that is probably where the "victimhood complex " comes from. You have pot users on one side saying pot is harmless, advocating for decriminalization, and on the other side you have people say no, look at these studies that say other wise. But a lot of those studies were and are biased due to the War on Drugs but there was no source for the advocates to pull from to counter the bad science. Even now, doing all the research I'm doing on pot to have these discussions is difficult. Like one of the sources I posted above on the second hand THC, there was a lot of news reports on it all say that "you can get high from second hand pot smoke" and while that is true, it's not accurate because they are just reporting the sound bite, and not the science. And there is the education angle as well. When I was a kid, we had the D.A.R.E program in school, that told us pot was just as bad as Cocaine, Heroin and all these other hard drugs. And in retrospect, that was a bad thing to do because once kids saw no ill effects from their friends using pot, they used it themselves. And if pot isn't as bad as they claimed, then they must have been lying about these other drugs too. Which is where pot as a gateway drug came from, So that was more demonetization to fight against because no one cared that the people who were saying pot was a gateway drug were the same ones that made it a gateway drug.
My comment on as painting all Canadians the same comes from your comment "your own selfish desire to smoke cannabis wherever you like with no regard for others around you. " You seem to be saying that all Canadian cannabis users/advocates are selfish, and that is not true. And while you probably didn't mean it like that, overly broad statements like that can be taken in a lot of different ways. I don't know if you are in Canada currently, or even the last time you were here. I'm am here and I am not seeing this. Maybe I'm in a minority, or maybe i'm just not in the right areas of my city. From my experience though, most cannabis users are staying pretty private. I was downtown over the weekend, and while I could smell it, I could not see anyone smoking. The smell is very pervasive and whoever was smoking it could have been a hundred feet away for all I know.
Going to the Coffee shops, that smell would still be there even if the smoke isn't. And because Cannabis has been tied to our smoking laws, and you cannot smoke in a public establishment that does make opening a cannabis friendly coffee shop, like they have in Amsterdam unlikely. Not impossible, but the laws would have to change to allow it, which may mean going back to allowing tobacco smoking indoors unless they cut cannabis out of the smoking laws, which means making new laws that they tried to avoid in the first place. So it's a huge mess, that will probably never be solved in a way that makes everyone happy.
Then there would be logistical issues, like where could the coffee shop go? Surrounding businesses wouldn't like it and neither would the building owners. So that would drive pot friendly coffee shops out into industrial areas... where it would be difficult to get to. And might encourage people to drive while high because a lot of people don't really view pot the same way they view alcohol, and preventing someone from driving intoxicated is always better then catching them. That is not a very good alternative for someone that may want to get high, but lives in a no smoking building. Setting up a cannabis smoking area in public would be a good alternative, but that could be seen as encouragement from the government and they don't want that. So allowing cannabis smoking where ever tobacco smoking is allowed and restricting both is the most neutral thing they can do. And the easiest.
So the public smoking of cannabis is not going to go anywhere for a least a year, because that is when edibles become legal for sale which should cut down on the amount of people smoking in public.
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I see nothing wrong with the posts you quoted, all we’re legitimate responses to your statements. None of them say “get back to your own country” like you said. You did choose to visit Vancouver despite historical liberal cannabis views, legalization and public use. That’s your own bad judgement.
Again, there are already regulations as to where in public it can and can’t be smoked. So nobody can smoke it “wherever they want.” You said that people who smoke in public are selfish, if that was just a poor choice of your words on your part and you would now like to narrow it down to simply “people who blow smoke in people’s faces” then I completely agree with you, that is disrespectful and gross and I promise you the vast majority of people in BC are very respectful with the way they use weed.
Demanding that they use edibles or THC drops instead of their preferred method of smoking is selfish on your part. Edibles aren’t available in government cannabis stores, have a different effect, take a much longer time to take effect and are difficult to dose. Your obsession with controlling other people’s legal cannabis use in another country is bizarre.
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Papa
Banned
They are not legitimate responses because you are going to the extreme and telling me to leave if I don't like something about the city that is tangential to my reason for visiting. Your comments don't have to say it explicitly - the implication is clear as day. They were condescending, assholish comments that sidestepped the issue by effectively telling me to go home if I don't like something about the country I'm in. Where have I seen those kinds of comments before?
If you go back to my initial post where I raised the issue, I even framed it as a question inviting discussion, but all you have done is disingenuously represent my arguments and go on the attack as though I'm arguing against legalising cannabis at all. Why the fuck do you keep exaggerating what I'm saying with shit like "your obsession with controlling other people’s legal cannabis use in another country is bizarre"? I'm not trying to control other people's legal cannabis use; I'm saying that it should be legal for private use and those who want to use it should be respectful of others in public. There is no reason to smoke it in public.
If you want to smoke weed in public, you're a selfish ass. It's all about you and fuck anyone else in your vicinity. End of story.
Papa
Banned
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that context, but it doesn't change my opinion on public smoking.
I'm in agreement with you on the education aspects and I'm a critic of the War on Drugs, which I think has obviously done more harm than good. Cannabis clearly isn't anywhere near the level of cocaine or heroin, and I think it was wrong that that was taught back in the day just like abstinence was ineffectively taught as a method of contraception, but I don't think cannabis use should be encouraged either. It's like the abortion issue - I think abortion should be legal but not encouraged, but there are always those that take it too far.
That's definitely not how I meant it, and the only way that would be logically admissible is if I had said that all Canadian cannabis users want to smoke in public. As far as I'm aware, most use it in private, but my issue is not with them; it's with those who think it's their God-given right to smoke wherever they want and everyone else should put up or shut up. If the laws support that, I think they should change, otherwise they should be better enforced.
Your comments about coffee shops do highlight how logistically difficult the problem is, but I don't think that's justification to throw the baby out with the bathwater and have completely untrammeled public use. I know you're not suggesting this, but some do. Hopefully the availability of edibles will reduce the public smoking.
Isn't this what everyone is saying? Who is saying that smokers shouldn't be respectful of others in public? I'm confused... You say people should be respectful in public, then say "If you want to smoke weed in public, you're a selfish ass", which is a general statement which presumably includes those who do it respectfully. Which is it? at least be consistent.
I think you have to accept that there will be people who will participate in activities that will inconvenience or annoy you. I have a fear of dogs after being attacked by one as a kid - being sniffed or licked is terrifying. I cross the street when I see one coming towards me just in case rather than cause a big silly fuss about my personal space. Also, why should I have to hear people playing their shit music down the park? Can't they just wear headphones and not create all that noise pollution and infringe upon my personal space? What about that guy with BO that sits next to me on the train? Or that dude across the street that revs his muscle-car's engine all weekend... I think sometimes you just have to accept that other people don't exist to coddle you. We live in a society and have to accept that we share this world with other people.
I'm tempted to raise my point again about barbecues which create more smoke, air pollution, cause respiratory issues for some people (particularly the elderly with underlying issues), the smell is strong and can be nauseating for some people. Also, there is evidence that grilled meat can be carcinogenic and hazardous to your health. But fuck anyone else in your vicinity, right?
I mean that's what I would say if I didn't want to be accused of a false-equivalency again. I know you would never....
Oh...
Do abortions inconvenience you too? I know you have a disdain for women, particularly ones that have been victims of sexual abuse and rape, but this is a bit weird. You are totally obsessed with controlling other peoples lives. All those attention seeking whores taking abortion way too far, amirite?
Virtually nobody thinks this. Your arguments are beyond the absurd and sensationalist. It's impossible to have a reasoned discussion because you keep ignoring that there are regulations that already exist. I've directed you to the information which states that only smoking designated areas, away from areas frequented by children are allowed. Now you show me a single person demanding to be able to smoke weed in schools and playgrounds? If you find one, I will tell you they are selfish (and committing an offense).
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lil puff
Member
It's not that regulations don't exist, it's how they enforce them.
I think if it gets out of hand they will enforce the regulations stronger.
That's what happened when cigarette smoking in buildings and parks were outlawed. People started huddling right outside the building or park entrances. Now you can't smoke in front of a building and security guards usually shoo you away from the park entrance.
I think if it gets out of hand they will enforce the regulations stronger.
That's what happened when cigarette smoking in buildings and parks were outlawed. People started huddling right outside the building or park entrances. Now you can't smoke in front of a building and security guards usually shoo you away from the park entrance.
Nymphae
Banned
At my college, they had signs up that literally read like this:
You are 'not' permitted to smoke on these premises
I don't know how an error like that gets made.
Liberty4all
Banned
Vancouver yeah. My corporate office is there and yeah you can definitely smell weed downtown constantly. I think this is in part because the city otherwise is so clean.
I also live in downtown Toronto. It’s not at the same level as Vancouver in terms of weed smell.
Liberty4all
Banned
America is what I wish Canada could be. At least politically. Maxime is a good start though.
dragonfart28
Banned
You should get your Conservative friends to vote for him and split the vote on the right.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
When are we gonna get the ads for anti pot like the cigarette ones? One gives you second hand cancer the other ones gives you second hand cancer/snoop dog syndrome. I need my memes.
Liberty4all
Banned
The vote almost for sure will be split and we will be stuck with Castro another 4 years. But I'd rather have a true conservative party rather than liberal light that scheer represents.
I like Maxime he's the first viable libertarian conservative I've seen in Canada.