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[LOCK]

I feel like last holiday showed that with current gen systems, people who want one are waiting for lower prices or better deals.

For handhelds, it showed that the holidays are becoming more important.

I feel like it is a factor associated with our economy, however, this year is arguably much better than last year and so holiday sales should be better, especially with the release of the Wii U.

 

[Vic]

The 3DS is indeed priced way too high. Tablets can't compare to handhelds when it comes to the gaming library, but if I have $200 to spend on gadgets right now and I have to choose between a tablet and a handheld gaming system, the tablet will be the premier consideration. I'm pretty sure it's the same for a lot of people.

 

[fabfour64xx]

You'd think the Vita was in it's later years and was on the verge of being replaced by a successor. <40k is atrocious. I honestly don't think the Vita will ever be a "hit" and will fall by the wayside by 2015. Unless something can turn it around, of course. KH3D/NSMB2 did okay and I'm disappointed by 3DS numbers. The market for dedicated handheld gaming is just flat out shrinking, especially outside of Japan.

 

[Kandinsky]

Just cancel it already. There's nothing that will 'save' the platform. It just wasn't meant to be.

Yeah just cancel it especially that TGS is right around the corner, also christmas, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[ohlawd]

Yeah just cancel it especially that TGS is right around the corner, also christmas, that makes a lot of sense.

So what do we do when the sales after those events are pitiful?

 

[iammeiam]

Man, Nintendo really needs to kill the DS. In Japan it's dead and buried, and no doubt the 3DS benefits because of it.

Black and White 2 won't help either. Still can't believe they didn't make it 3DS exclusive.

Eh, I think if the Vita were more of an actual competitor then maybe Nintendo would need to kill off the DS and focus entirely on one handheld. As it stands, they have both the first and second-place handhelds.

How much more would the DS have to sell to surpass the PS2 worldwide? Or has that already happened? The PS2's late launch in a bunch of regions has me confused.

But if Nintendo can keep selling the DS until it becomes the best-selling handheld or console of all time, they totally should. It's not like they're losing anything in the process, and if they can drop the 3DS price again before entirely killing off the DS in the US, all the better.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

So what do we do when the sales after those events are pitiful?

What do you mean? TGS and Christmas happen every year!

 

[Anth0ny]

Sony should get out, there's nothing but red bottom lines for them in the handheld market. Nintendo, however, I think can survive on the strength of its franchises and smart business planning (i.e. prepare now for the realities of a smaller market).

My thoughts exactly. Nintendo can sell their handhelds forever as long as they have Mario and Pokemon. Sony doesn't have that luxury. With mobile phones and tablet taking such a huge chunk out of the portable gaming market, there exists space for a Nintendo handheld and nothing more.

Sad but true. Vita is an awesome piece of technology that deserves better than this.

 

[ohlawd]

What do you mean? TGS and Christmas happen every year!

"If it didn't work out this year... there's always next year!"

Am I doing it right?

 

[Mutanthands]

"If it didn't work out this year... there's always next year!"

Am I doing it right?

2013 is the year of the Vita!

That's how you do it.

 

[Brofist]

2013 is the year of the Vita!

That's how you do it.

There will never be a year of the Vita.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Further to earlier post looking at August NPDs for the last ten years...

Was curious what the equivalent August before the start of this gen (2005) looked like compared to last month.

Home JP05 = 153K
Home JP12 = 137K
Handheld JP05 = 441K
Handheld JP12 = 514K

Home US05 = ~440K
Home US12 = ~400K
Handheld US05 = ~450K
Handheld US12 = ~320K

 

[RukusProvider]

There will never be a year of the Vita.

Maybe a Vita weekend at best.

 

[Mutanthands]

There will never be a year of the Vita.

Sarcasm. Everyone is slowly coming to the conclusion that Sony shit the bed with the Vita. Be it concept or execution, something went very wrong.

 

[Mileena]

My thoughts exactly. Nintendo can sell their handhelds forever as long as they have Mario and Pokemon. Sony doesn't have that luxury. With mobile phones and tablet taking such a huge chunk out of the portable gaming market, there exists space for a Nintendo handheld and nothing more.

Sad but true. Vita is an awesome piece of technology that deserves better than this.

I partly agree, but I'm pretty sure this will be the last gen of handhelds. Bombas left and right for most 3DS/Vita software and the "big month" for 3DS is 177k. That's terrible, 360 did more in a month of nothing and PS3 wasn't too far behind 3DS. It's a shitty reality, but I don't think it's a stretch at all.

 

[legend166]

It's a chicken and egg thing, and it's not always one before the other. Sometimes you gamble on it to push the system so there will be another market to sell your games in the future. In Japan especially, the system spikes any time a big game comes out. The sales are software driven, and Monster Hunter, Mario and Final Fantasy are kind of the go to system sellers in Japan.

How much did PS1 sell before FFVII came out? Why is SQEX committing multiple games to Ouya already?

You're talking about a game that came out 15 years ago. Not only that, you're talking about a mainline entry. There's zero chance that the next mainline FF game is released exclusively on the Vita.

 

[Brofist]

Maybe a Vita weekend at best.

Maybe a Saturday afternoon or something.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

My thoughts exactly. Nintendo can sell their handhelds forever as long as they have Mario and Pokemon. Sony doesn't have that luxury. With mobile phones and tablet taking such a huge chunk out of the portable gaming market, there exists space for a Nintendo handheld and nothing more.

Sad but true. Vita is an awesome piece of technology that deserves better than this.

Nintendo treats their handhelds and home systems with the same respect when it comes to game development budgets and marketing support. Sony needs to do the same instead of treating the system like a stepchild.

 

[zroid]

Vita's just hitting its stride, you guys

 

[MrPink93485]

Sarcasm. Everyone is slowly coming to the conclusion that Sony shit the bed with the Vita. Be it concept or execution, something went very wrong.

The concept was always sketchy since it was doubling down on trying to bring the console experience to the palm of your hands, which didn't seem to work with the PSP. Sony was lucky though to have had a lot o brand power to do well with it, and in Japan, they had tons of support to make a good chunk of money for themselves. Here with the Vita, they clearly didn't have enough support to sustain interest, and they just dumped it out there and have done little since. I'd like to say kill the Vita, but at the same time, they haven't even done enough supporting to even give it a chance to prove itself in the market. Few worthwhile games since launch, no intentions to make it more price competitive whether it's in terms of accessories (memory pricing) or the hardware itself. There's no sense of urgency at all. If this is the game support that we can expect, then yes, it's doomed and they should give up. But if Sony has something on the horizon, they really need to do something to at least grab our attention, because the thing has pretty much flatlined before we could ever get to that point where it might look worthwhile.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Sarcasm. Everyone is slowly coming to the conclusion that Sony shit the bed with the Vita. Be it concept or execution, something went very wrong.

What went wrong with the Vita may very well simply be that there isn't demand for a dedicated handheld outside of the market Nintendo shoots for.

Wasn't the paradox of the PSP that it actually sold good numbers by the end, yet had poor software sales? I assume it was due to the piracy issue: PSP was easy as dirt to turn into an ISO machine, practically the Dreamcast Pt. II. So sure, hardware sold great, games not so much.

If that really is the case, it sure makes it look like the primary legitimate (non-piracy) interest gaming handhelds still centers around Nintendo, because they hit the all-range mode audience. Kids, teens, adults, 'casuals', everybody. And they've got Pokemon.

Problem with the Vita is taking a critical look at it, there just doesn't seem to be a lot wrong with any aspect of it, by itself. The underhanded trick with selling expensive proprietary storage is the biggest offense, and maybe a statistically significant contributing factor to its poor reception. But otherwise: it has great tech and features for the price. A free online multiplayer service. Great battery life for its output. It's just barely small enough to feel legitimately portable. Skirts the edge there. It launched with an incredibly strong line-up of games compared to most console launches, nevermind portables. Its digital backwards compatibility with PSP is executed extremely well and a major bonus for non-piratey PSP owners - all five of them

And apparently nobody is interested. Maybe the price is too high; if it is, I don't think it's by much. $200 sounds better, nothing crazy like $150.

But at the end of the day, what if there simply is not a great market, at the very conceptual level itself, for dedicated gaming handhelds that aren't kid-friendly Pokemon devices?

 

[Krilekk]

There will never be a year of the Vita.

When they sell it for $149 and actually have interesting software, who knows? They need new IPs for that thing, another Killzone, God of War ... won't cut it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What went wrong with the Vita may very well simply be that there isn't demand for a dedicated handheld outside of the market Nintendo shoots for.

Wasn't the paradox of the PSP that it actually sold good numbers by the end, yet had poor software sales? I assume it was due to the piracy issue: PSP was easy as dirt to turn into an ISO machine, practically the Dreamcast Pt. II. So sure, hardware sold great, games not so much.

If that really is the case, it sure makes it look like the primary legitimate (non-piracy) interest gaming handhelds still centers around Nintendo, because they hit the all-range mode audience. Kids, teens, adults, 'casuals', everybody. And they've got Pokemon.

Problem with the Vita is taking a critical look at it, there just doesn't seem to be a lot wrong with any aspect of it, by itself. The underhanded trick with selling expensive proprietary storage is the biggest offense, and maybe a statistically significant contributing factor to its poor reception. But otherwise: it has great tech and features for the price. A free online multiplayer service. Great battery life for its output. It's just barely small enough to feel legitimately portable. Skirts the edge there. It launched with an incredibly strong line-up of games compared to most console launches, nevermind portables. Its digital backwards compatibility with PSP is executed extremely well and a major bonus for non-piratey PSP owners - all five of them

And apparently nobody is interested. Maybe the price is too high; if it is, I don't think it's by much. $200 sounds better, nothing crazy like $150.

But at the end of the day, what if there simply is not a great market, at the very conceptual level itself, for dedicated gaming handhelds that aren't kid-friendly Pokemon devices?

I think this gets to the heart of the matter pretty accurately, although I'd say the problem is mostly that the market Sony is going after doesn't want to lug around multiple devices. Their phone already does everything.

I think if Sony opened up their software and psn service to most mobile platforms they'd have a lot more success selling software.

 

[famousmortimer]

I don't know if the Vita will turn around or not but it amuses me to no end that people are convinced that their opinion on the matter is fact.

 

[thuway]

I don't think Sony will kill the Vita off just yet. It might be doing horrendous numbers, but they still have a few 'tricks' up their sleeves. However, I think we can all agree that Vita needs:

1. Price Drop
2. More games! They need to get ports of all these 3DS titles going forward and in the past. (Kingdom Hearts 3DS should have been dual platform day 1)
3. More Remote Play opportunities

 

[Kusagari]

I don't think Sony will kill the Vita off just yet. It might be doing horrendous numbers, but they still have a few 'tricks' up their sleeves. However, I think we can all agree that Vita needs:

1. Price Drop
2. More games! They need to get ports of all these 3DS titles going forward and in the past. (Kingdom Hearts 3DS should have been dual platform day 1)
3. More Remote Play opportunities

...what are these tricks, exactly?

 

[AniHawk]

illusions, thuway. tricks are what a whore does for money.

 

[AndresON777]

honest question but if I have a newer android phone and a 3ds is there a reason to get the vita over something like the Nexus tablet?

 

[electroplankton]

Imo, KH3D sold nicely, given the bad state of the industry and how young 3DS is. It will have legs I hope, as 358/2 Days had. Btw, Mpl90's predictions were way too off!

 

[ShironRedshift]

I think this gets to the heart of the matter pretty accurately, although I'd say the problem is mostly that the market Sony is going after doesn't want to lug around multiple devices. Their phone already does everything.

I think if Sony opened up their software and psn service to most mobile platforms they'd have a lot more success selling software.

Pretty much. And what they're phones don't do, typically their tablets will. And I think that might be one of the Vita's key problems, beyond the lack of system selling software, proprietary memory cards, and lack of advertising--tablets. Due to its price and focus on a larger screen and "HD" graphics, regardless of whether Sony wanted it or intended it to, I fear that part of the problem it's facing may be that it ended up trampling on tablets' turf, and people are ending up choosing the tablets over it. Beyond the games, the Vita's key selling points are very similar to those of tablets, and since tablets seem to be the "in" thing right now both among the tech world and consumers in general, if that's the case, the choice would seem to be obvious for most of these people.

And if that is indeed the case, I can't see things letting up on the Vita, as coming up, not only do you still have the iPad around and Apple continuing to make new models of it around and stuff like the Kindle Fire, but Amazon's also continuing to expand its Kindle line of products, Apple's apparently getting ready to release an iPad mini, and you have Microsoft getting ready to throw its hat into the arena as well with the Microsoft Surface. With all those products to choose from, even if Vita does start to get better software support (and that's a big if), I'm still not sure consumers would end up going for it at this point. Regardless of how much a quality product it is, things just seem to be getting a bit too crowded for a product like Vita to be all that viable anymore.

 

[Vic]

I don't know if the Vita will turn around or not but it amuses me to no end that people are convinced that their opinion on the matter is fact.

At this point, claiming that the Vita is in trouble is not mere opinion. It is a factual statement more than anything else.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

...what are these tricks, exactly?

I would like to know these tricks as well.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

This pretty much confirms what we have figured out for a while, that Tablets and Smartphones are permanently changing the gaming landscape. While it does have a strong effect on the PS Vita and the 3DS by taking away the Casual Market, we have to see whether there are strong effects on the console market.

The Wii U should give us a small window into it, along with the PS4 and the XBOX 3.

 

[electroplankton]

Can we add all the stuffs in the OP?
Like, TLS slightly lower than 40k (which is pretty good diven XSeed), and Vita below 40k, and DS almost 100k, etc.?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If you have to pinpoint a single target audience misfire for the Vita, it was when Sony outright admitted that their primary audience for the system is not PSP owners, but existing and currently active PS3 owners.

Thus, he further extrapolated, offering similar experiences (often down to ports of PS3 exclusives) was the best strategy. Somehow.

 

[Vic]

This pretty much confirms what we have figured out for a while, that Tablets and Smartphones are permanently changing the gaming landscape. While it does have a strong effect on the PS Vita and the 3DS by taking away the Casual Market, we have to see whether there are strong effects on the console market.

The Wii U should give us a small window into it, along with the PS4 and the XBOX 3.

I laugh at the idea that smartphones are taking mindshare away from gaming systems, those inexpensive 7" tablets though...

 

[boiled goose]

The 3DS is definitely struggling, but let's be honest here, it is not like Nintendo just deserves to have a well selling handheld, they have to earn it. The 3DS as a gaming platform is mediocre at best.

The hardware is mediocre. Not high end enough and not cheap enough either. It is lost in no man's land. Battery life is worse than previous handhelds, no second stick despite asked by gamers and developers as a staple for 3D games, screen scratching issues, etc.

The latest release is a Mario rehash unlike any other Nintendo has done with the franchise. Not saying the game is bad, but it is a clear cash in sequel.

The 3DS as a system has no clear identity. Nintendo was so comfortable with the DS's success and the new system ended with a similar name, similar hardware design, and even similar game cases than its predecessor. The only feature marketed as a new, was 3D, which for many is a gimmick at best and a distraction at worst.

Finally, Nintendo's anti consumer practices and stubbornness to really invest in modern online infrastructure is detrimental. The system has great support in Japan, but every new game announcement is a question mark as to whether it will be localized. On top of that, the system is region locked. And don't get me started on Nintendo's guts to launch a system in 2011 with downloadable games but no account based system.

What Nintendo is doing with the 3DS seems to be working in Japan, but it is clear they did not design the system with considerations for Western audiences. 3DS does not deserve to do well simply because of Nintendo's prior dominance. The landscape is more competitive now, which is great for consumers, and Nintendo has to earn their dollars.

/end rant

 

[Magic Mushroom]

2012 is dead for home consoles.
All major titles have been pushed to next year. 2013 will be the swan song for current gen systems and then a new cycle will begin, hopefully bringing growth.

Not all major titles. Expect some seriously big sales for Boderlands 2, Resident Evil 6, Black Ops 2 and Assassin's Creed 3.

 

[Vic]

If you have to pinpoint a single target audience misfire for the Vita, it was when Sony outright admitted that their primary audience for the system is not PSP owners, but existing and currently active PS3 owners.

Thus, he further extrapolated, offering similar experiences (often down to ports of PS3 exclusives) was the best strategy. Somehow.

I believe that the only reason the Vita exist was because of the relative success the PSP had found in the market. It justified a successor to the PSP, but all that made the former console a success could be said to be ephemeral. Sony has no ability to make the Vita market conditions as good the PSP had at the time. Whatever market they claim to aim for is an afterthought.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Not all major titles. Expect some seriously big sales for Boderlands 2, Resident Evil 6, Black Ops 2 and Assassin's Creed 3.

Not a single game I want... :/

Thank god Tokyo Jungle is coming out this year or I wouldn't be getting any new games for my PS3.

 

[Canis lupus]

Ah I missed the prediction thread.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance - 180k~ (2012/3DS)
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - 225k (2010/PSP)

Same amount of days for tracking. Yeash. Square Enix really needs to bring a new console iteration.

It's justice.
BBS from a story pov is the best KH ever, it should have sold at least the same copies of 358/2 Days

 

[Saty]

take that Activision!
watch out GTA 5
Bring on the non-U.S. cities and non-white protagonists open world games.

lol

 

[Mpl90]

Isn't September the Angry Birds Trilogy month? THAT's going to be very interesting. Especially because...right now on Amazon it's 1.800th on both PS3 and 360, while on 3DS it's 224th. It seems it could be a good seller for 3DS next month ( IF it sells: given the prices, it's a big IF).

 

[Aostia]

I was expecting over 200 K for 3DS (I know that it could be also very near, due to the % calculations) but it seems a good start for New Mario and KH3D.
"Wiita" are so flat...
Good numbers for Darksiders but I'm afraid because of THQ expectations for a sequel..

 

[AniHawk]

i knew i made some weird prediction. looks like i was pretty close:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40853594&postcount=430

there should be a small bump when it comes out. 50k more than this month, at least (especially with mario hitting same day).

last month the 3ds did around 124k.

i honestly expected kingdom hearts to outright bomb. especially after resident evil and theatrhythm. though i guess kid icarus wound up a success so i dunno.

 

[lazybones18]

So....how did Theatrhythm do in it's second month?

 

[Pooya]

take that Activision!
watch out GTA 5
Bring on the non-U.S. cities and non-white protagonists open world games.

lol

it's pretty funny really after all that headlines and threads, specially GTA ones lol. with that said the game seems to have done decently in UK, not far from US sales actually, I find it quite odd considering how poor UK market has been.

The game looked to have decent budget behind it too, it certainly doesn't look cheap and they had Emma Stone etc on it. depending on how much they paid Activation for it and how much they spent on it after, it could be *successful* for the in them long run as a brand but...
I don't really see that.

 

[DEADEVIL]

So basically the 360 is still leading the region it should. 20 Months straight means MS is doing something right. The reason the industry as a whole is down is because the Wii isnt doing those crazy big numbers it did in the past. That boosted total retail.

But at the end of the day this is simply another Summer month at retail. People tend to overemphasize slow months through the year as an indication that the industry is completely dead.

But, as usual when September and October start showing signs of life before you see huge numbers in November and December then the amnesia will kick in about the gloom comments and article from earlier in the year.

The big boys come out in the Fall and Holiday season and so do the consumers. Wii-U will be interesting, as well as how well current systems still sell this year.

 

[michaelius]

Why did sleeping dogs sold so badly in US ?

It was huge hit in UK and sold nicely in rest of EU too.
Shouldn't American market be much more welcoming to GTA like games.